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Poll

Over/Under on number of Awkward Zone Initiations This week?

None at all.
- 1 (1.2%)
One or two.
- 12 (14.6%)
Three to five.
- 13 (15.9%)
Six to eight.
- 6 (7.3%)
Nine or 10.
- 1 (1.2%)
More than 10.
- 6 (7.3%)
It depends on how much those involved drink...
- 16 (19.5%)
...and on the amount of Spathe Ham consumed.
- 1 (1.2%)
I dunno, but I don't want to see MartenMom drunk.
- 2 (2.4%)
Nor Claire.
- 8 (9.8%)
10 tons of snow will suddenly fall on the cast, dropping the wedding into darkness.
- 6 (7.3%)
Be realistic: more like 5 tons.
- 6 (7.3%)
There are no waffles because you eat Pancakes on Fat Tuesday, so there. :P
- 4 (4.9%)

Total Members Voted: 76


Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2382-2386 (11-15 February, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 60990 times)

Bluesummers

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That poor car!    :'(  Did the schnapps survive at least?    :-[

Indeed it did, actually...they make those bottles tough enough to withstand a bar fight, so I guess a car accident is nothing to them. I still have trouble understanding how it came from the trunk, which was sealed off by the back seats (it was a 2-door coupe) into the shotgun seat. But then again, I should just be thankful I survived.
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Method of Madness

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I was going to ask if the cops believed you when you said the bottle was in the trunk, but if it didn't shatter and was still sealed I guess it wouldn't matter.
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cesariojpn

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Easily cured Veronica

It's called a Gym.



MEDIIIIC!!!!!

She probably makes enough money to have liposuction.
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With all the accidents I've been through, I've never had an airbag go off. 

Not even when I had a head-on in a Tempo with a large pickup truck at about 40 mph. 



Oh, wait - it was an '84 tempo, that was before airbags...
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Bluesummers

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I was going to ask if the cops believed you when you said the bottle was in the trunk, but if it didn't shatter and was still sealed I guess it wouldn't matter.
Yeah, no alcohol involved, the bottle hadn't even been opened. The car registration had actually expired 2 weeks prior, but the cop ignored that bit. They just wanted to make sure I was safely in the ambulance, and that the license plate was eventually pulled out of the tree trunk.

I joke about it now, as it's been over three years, but it was quite traumatic at the time...I actually do a lot of driving for work now, but it's a different situation, different path in life.

She probably makes enough money to have liposuction.

But I'm not sure she's the type to modify herself on a whim, especially if she's looking for more than a superficial relationship. Veronica seems deeper than the average bear.
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ZoeB

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It's unfortunate, but it's true. My brain automatically picks out the little details and focuses on them. I may notice masculine features on cisgendered women, or feminine features on guys, but my mind won't subconsciously focus on them like it does with transgendered folk. Truth is, I have to make a concerted effort to pretend there's no difference, or that I don't notice.

Some practice:

Before Facial Feminisation Surgery:


After:


Transitioned "on the job" at Air France:


This gal transitioned at 17:


This gal is XXY:


This is a surgeon who'll be operating on a friend of mine soon:


Another friend of mine:


Here's a couple of guys I find very pleasant to look at






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Pilchard123

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I was going to ask if the cops believed you when you said the bottle was in the trunk, but if it didn't shatter and was still sealed I guess it wouldn't matter.

My dad's boss once crashed his car - well, was cut up really badly by someone - and got out reeking of booze. He hadn't been drinking, but he had been on a beer run and the bottles all broke when he hit.
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bhtooefr

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You'd be surprised how easily a heavy object can punch through the back seats.
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VonKleist

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  • First I lol'd. But then I serious'd.

The third frame with Claire going down just keeps on cracking me up :laugh:
Looking forward to what this arc may bring.

Excellent!!°
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bhtooefr

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I see that Claire has recovered, though.
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Near Lurker

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...fair enough.  After all, cocaine is better for you than any psychiatric drug or dairy product.

Only wish we'd seen Claire's reaction.  I remember my own highball phase...
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Marten - the love child of a line of cocaine...  I can see him being unhappy about that.

On-line dating - cocaine for the 2010s?  Well perhaps not, but I've seen wildly varying results from it, I have to say.
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Organized on-line dating is cocaine for the masses.
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I see that Claire has recovered, though.

Which is pretty impressive, as she looked practically comatose in the previous strip...
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It was the 70's alright. Coke wasn't seen as much worse than Grass. Probably because it was nowhere near as pure then, and crack was unknown.

Grass was pretty much universal. Only a few like me didn't at least try it (I have an allergy to Cannabis Sativa). I've never seen any drug other than grass and some blotting paper with LSD-25. Since 82 I've held some interesting security clearances, so don't do drugs anyway. Not that they test for it, more of a case that with PV you just don't do that stuff, you have to be too ridiculously straight-arrow or you don't get clearance in the first place.

Veronica would be an interesting person to meet. We're of the same vintage - though she's a Dom, I'm a Rocket Scientist. Not quite in the same league as Hanners' dad though.
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Pilchard123

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Organized on-line dating is cocaine for the masses.

Should that not be "opium of the masses/people"?
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Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

Blackjoker

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I am most amused, both because of Martens bug eye look near the end and the increasing awkwardness of it all. Though it might be funny, it would probably burn too many bridges if Marten treated his mom the way she treated him after he and Dora broke up.
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Nepiophage

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I have a six-pack but it is in a big shopping bag with all my other groceries.
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bhtooefr

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Also, that means four awkward-zone initiations this week.

In the same scene.

By the same character.
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Carl-E

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It was the 70's alright. Coke wasn't seen as much worse than Grass. Probably because it was nowhere near as pure then, and crack was unknown.

Grass was pretty much universal. Only a few like me didn't at least try it (I have an allergy to Cannabis Sativa). I've never seen any drug other than grass and some blotting paper with LSD-25. Since 82 I've held some interesting security clearances, so don't do drugs anyway. Not that they test for it, more of a case that with PV you just don't do that stuff, you have to be too ridiculously straight-arrow or you don't get clearance in the first place.

Veronica would be an interesting person to meet. We're of the same vintage - though she's a Dom, I'm a Rocket Scientist. Not quite in the same league as Hanners' dad though.

Same here.  I lost a good bit of the late 70's / early 80's to a cannabis haze.  Never did coke, but thoroughly enjoyed an acid trip or two during my Grateful Deadhead phase.  Managed to score and deal a fair bit of opium one semester, too - it paid for tuition.  I ddn't use that shit, though - it was addictive! 

Dropped it all in favor of finishing grad school.  That, and my future wife pointed out exactly how much I was forgetting on a daily basis by using the stuff...

"We didn't know any better" = "We didn't really care!"
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WAYF

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That mental image...
it's horrifying. :shock:
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Carl-E

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Sorry, which mental image?  The one in the comic?  Nepiophage's six pack? 


Or me as a Dead head? 
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Loki

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Organized on-line dating is cocaine for the masses.

Should that not be "opium of the masses/people"?


My bad, I reverse translated it over three languages. The cocaine instead of opium is intentional, though.
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Pilchard123

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Doesn't matter, I just wondered if you'd meant to quote (Is that the right word?) that or if it was coincidence. Why three languages?
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Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

Bluesummers

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That mental image...
it's horrifying. :shock:

It's romantic. :mrgreen: :psyduck: :mrgreen:
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I have had the opportunity to try cannabis a few times but always decided I wasn't sufficiently interested in knowing what it's like to bother. I guess I'm just not particularly curious about the effect of chemicals on my body because it took me a long time to try alcohol and I'd still rather have fruit juice or hot chocolate.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

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Hhahahhaha Oh man that mental image is one of the best I've had lately. Hilarious stuff.

I've had marijuana/cannabis a couple of times. I enjoyed it... Don't think I would buy any though. My addiction to cds/dvds is waaaaaaaay stronger.
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Sidhekin

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Enjoy this fascinating anecdote, my boring life ...

Though I've been a pedestrian for most of my life, habitually walking through dark city streets, shortcutting through even darker parks on occasion, for the better part of more than two decades, I've never even been approached with an offer of illegal substances.

For a year I lived downtown, walking through the whores' streets every evening.  Not even one of them mistook me for a mark.

I am just far too "ridiculously straight-arrow".  8-)
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drewdane

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1)  I'm finding Claire's reactions to the scotch far more interesting and entertaining than Marten and Veronica's dialogue.

B - In the United States, no matter where you are, no matter where you live, no matter where you're from, "The City" refers to San Francisco - I thought EVERYONE knew that! 
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Cheesasaurus

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I like to think that Claire's given up on the alcohol and gone with something safer. Like a milkshake.
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Merdrak

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To GarandMarine: True on all counts for the DI bit, and as for Rum, I do enjoy the Krakken.

Drugs - never used or will.  Not worth losing my career (I guess I can call it that after re-upping) + never had the urge.. hell, it took me being stationed in Okinawa to smoke or drink. 

As far as the comic goes though, I think Marten just had his mind BLOWN, literally and figuratively.  And Claire seems to be coming out of the haze as well, though she's probably still hammered.. or else probably has that "I don't wanna drink again" mindset at the moment.  She does seem totally absorbed in that drink to really notice what's going on. XD
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Method of Madness

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I think it was more the taste than the alcohol, so she's probably not drunk.
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Carl-E

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She's just washing her mouth out with a diet pepsi...
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westrim

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After all, cocaine is better for you than any psychiatric drug or dairy product.
You're going to need some seriously compelling data for me to believe a gram of that.

Aside from when I was an uninformed kid given medication, I personally have never and intend to never take any intentionally mind altering substances (as opposed to say, sugar). It has enough stuff to deal with without the rough, nonindividualized state of current chemistry messing with it.

This image seemed useful.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: 15 Feb 2013, 12:07 by Westrim »
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Akima

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Managed to score and deal a fair bit of opium one semester, too - it paid for tuition.
Well, it was good enough for the British government... :wink:  Using "intoxicants" is a breach of the Five Precepts, being regarded as damaging to Right Mindfulness, and my parents would have seriously disapproved too, so at school and uni I was far too tightly-wrapped even to experiment. I've eased up to the point of occasionally drinking alcohol, but I'm still pretty boring.

The main thing I remember from Lady And The Tramp is the racism (thank you Walt for helping to make Junior School so much fun), but that must have been a seriously long line of coke.


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St.Clair

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"It was the 70s!  We didn't know any better!"

That covers so much.
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WHY IS JEPH NOT DRAWING A CO-  oh yeah.  Weekend. 

To bed!  Where I shall sleep!
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...

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Veronica has never heard of Fetlife? Collarme? Alt.com........okay, maybe the last two are bad choices, and Fetlife isn't quite a dating site per say......
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I find Fet to be a neat little social networking site for a sometimes-strange but generally-nifty bunch of people in my area. We've got something of a quietly-sociable scene.

Legally-regulated drugs in the U.S.: I take alcohol sometimes, the occasional nicotine cigarette, especially when drinking the former. Haven't really had marijuana in something like eight months I think, though considering it I might see about getting a bit within the month. In my experience over the last couple years it is pretty fun, though I make sure I have a day where I don't have much going on to really sit back and savor a bowl, *or* an evening to pass around a little bit with friends.

Vehicle accidents: Bad one once. Without boring you with all the details, had a long commute and a long shift and a long waking-life I kept trying to stubbornly pack stuff into and it finally caught up for real with me falling asleep. So fucking close to home, of course. Thankfully no one else out there, it was like 3am on a rural road, but I did play a round of Car v. Utility Pole. Uh...the pole won. I was lucky and blessed and didn't eat anything more than micro-scratches from glass.

Much more damaging was when a tree fell on me and my car, but that was still just some nasty bruising. Remind me to tell that one another time.

Is it cold in here?

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She may already know all the people in her local scene.
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Econoclast

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Some practice:

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I still noticed the original gender features. Less so on the female to male, but I still noticed.
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CrowFairy

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Some practice:
First off, I'd like to say thank you for making me aware that there is a surgery for feminization! I'd never heard of that before, so I had always figured that trans people just relied on and emphasized the facial features that reflected their true gender. I honestly would not have recognized the first woman as the same person in both pictures if I had seen them separately and not been told they were the same person.

My only question from this is regarding the Air France woman--her jawline is still very masculine. Are there any techniques currently for helping to de-emphasize things like that? The rest of her features are feminine enough that I wouldn't wonder anything at all. But the jawline sticks out very much to me.

I hope my question and comments don't sound offensive. D: My sleepy meds are kicking in, and I'm sleep-deprived, but I wanted to post this while all of it was still on my mind.


As a side note, most of the trans people I've talked to are trans men in the very early transition phases (as in minimal hormones thus far and still having to do chest-binding). So I'm still kind of clueless, outside of continually keeping up with the trans Q & A/I thread.


Edit: Missed a question mark XD
« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2013, 13:52 by LoliBot »
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ZoeB

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Are there any techniques currently for helping to de-emphasize things like that.
Yes, it's a very common procedure. The most difficult one is brow bossing reduction - that involves complex work on the brow sinuses. After that, jaw re-shaping is common. Then cheek implants and rhinoplasty - the latter essential anyway if brow work is done. Upper and lower blaphroplasty (eyelids) and other soft tissue work, moving hairline down.

http://www.supornclinic.com/
Quote
For patients seeking Facial Feminizing Surgery ( FFS ), Dr Suporn performs the following procedures, all of which are further described in detail:

    Scalp Advance - or Scalp Reduction

    Forehead Reconstruction - Dr Suporn introduced in 2003 a proprietary technique for effectively reducing brow bossing in medium-severity cases

    Brow Lift

    Combined hair transplant procedure with above operations

    Upper and Lower Blepharoplasty

    Reconstructive and Aesthetic Rhinoplasty and Alarplasty

    Upper Lip Lift and Lip Enhancement

    Jaw or Mandible recontour

    Chin Reduction and Reprofile ( genioplasty )

    Thyroid Cartilage Reduction ( Adams Apple )

    Face Lift procedures ( SMAS or deep-plane rhytidectomy )

    Otoplasty
...
Lower Face

    Mandible_(jaw)_Shave - re contours the jaw to give a less square (male), more pear-shaped (female) appearance

    Chin Re profile - reshapes the chin as required to give a more feminine shape


Here's an example where Dr Suporn recommended no surgery - the areas he could feminise were all there already (some overly so), the ones that really needed work aesthetically he could do little to help with.



The chin is overly feminised, needs reduction and moving forward, not backwards, to slightly masculinise it. It's far too pear-shaped. Cheekbones perfect. Jaw behind the chin classically female. Lips close to nostrils, classically female.  Nose.... OMG!!! Amongst other things, broken and set crookedly in at least 3 places, and male pattern. Needs a complete reconstruction. Brow could do with a little work, but as that area had been damaged by assault with a crowbar, left sinus had been obliterated, and surgery posed unacceptable risks.

Compare bone structure with another Zoe


The point is... many women have slight facial maculinisations. Even though I've had no facial surgery, I don't look very different from many other women my age. The object is not (necessarily) to become beautiful - it's so some gang of thugs doesn't kill you.
« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2013, 03:56 by ZoeB »
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ZoeB

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I should add - by the time I got to high school, I didn't suffer any more facial injuries. Gays tend to be attacked after puberty, Trans and Intersex kids before then. Most of the really bad damage is only visible on CAT scans of my skull anyway.

The degree of FFS needed really depends on the degree of insecurity the patient feels - often with good reason. While I could use some improvement there, it's not a necessity. $30,000 to save my life is one thing, but just to cater to my vanity - and face (pardon the pun) the inevitable risks of facial paralysis and permanent numbness - cost exceeds benefit. My face may not be my fortune, but it's mine. For some, FFS is essential. For me, cosmetic.

If I was 24, not 54, maybe I'd feel differently. But if I'd transitioned earlier, I wouldn't need anything at all. As it is, the incomplete male puberty was an advantage in the long run.
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Is it cold in here?

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Double-checking my understanding:

You're fine with discussing this as a general and educational thing, but we shouldn't stare at the trans people we meet looking for details of facial structure?
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Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I still noticed the original gender features. Less so on the female to male, but I still noticed.

If Zoe hadn't told you those photos were of trans or intersex people, you would not have noticed. That was the point. You already said that you only focus on those features because you know the person is trans, so pointing those features out as if it means something is pretty much just insulting trans people for the sake of it.
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You're fine with discussing this as a general and educational thing, but we shouldn't stare at the trans people we meet looking for details of facial structure?
Pretty much, yes. Staring at people of Nigerian ancestry, looking for differences between Ibo and other racial groups is also impolite.... look, just treat people as people. As equals.

I picked those photos carefully. I know better examples, but these ones I could be certain were authorised by the people concerned to be used for educational purposes. In some cases, I know the people personally.

I know a couple on the web that are even better, but some of those in them are in deep, deep stealth. I treat such data with the same care I do other sensitive information I've been exposed to in my career.

Here's an example of one of the more extreme TERFs (Trans Exterminationist Radical Feminists), published without comment.



Even though this woman genuinely wants to see me put in a death camp - I refuse to analyse her features and speculate on timing of hormonal influences in the womb. It would be unethical. If I can show such forbearance, I don't think it's too much to ask of others.

« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2013, 07:51 by ZoeB »
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Akima wrote thus : " Besides which, forgiving other people is something you do for yourself, not for them. "

ZoeB

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The main thing I remember from Lady And The Tramp is the racism
Me too... it's vile, seriously crude and really nasty. It adds little to the plot too. It blights the film for me, always did.
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Akima wrote thus : " Besides which, forgiving other people is something you do for yourself, not for them. "

Carl-E

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Here's an example of one of the more extreme TERFs (Trans Exterminationist Radical Feminists), published without comment.

[image]

Even though this woman genuinely wants to see me put in a death camp - I refuse to analyse her features and speculate on timing of hormonal influences in the womb. It would be unethical. If I can show such forbearance, I don't think it's too much to ask of others.

Thank you for posting that.  I wanted to make the point that, whether because the person is transgendered, or just had different hormonal levels growing up, or even just unfortunate genes, unless you get to know them (and even then), it's all just speculation on the part of the viewer.  I know too many cis women who have very masculine looking facial and body features inherited from their fathers (or even their mothers) to assume that a person whose features seem "a bit off" is trans*.  There are certain social situations in which it can be a fair assumption, but even then, I would never presume to know
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When people try to speak a gut reaction, they end up talking out their ass.

Douglas Michael Massing

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Late to the party here. At the risk of repeating an observation I missed, just want to give Jeph a shout out for his having Marten point at Veronica's speech-balloon-space when he tells her she's got her dom voice on. The gesture is both artfully ambiguous and unmistakable once you see it that way. That it's also asynchronous is fun, too, as is Veronica's "Oop!" [sic] as she's presumably ratcheting down.

Carry on, good people!
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