Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheEvilDog]

The real problem might be that Warner Brothers might just decide to cut their losses with the DCEU films after Justice League and Wonder Woman.

I mean, at the moment the budget for the first three films in the DCEU has been $650 million and the Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice films have earned $1.5 billion.

Compare that to Marvel, whose budget for Iron Man, the Incredible Hulk Iron Man was $490 million and the three films made $1.47 billion and if Suicide Squad flops, the executives are going to be wondering if its worth it.

[Kugai]

Don't forget, Hollywood has a looong history of 'Creative Accounting', so I wouldn't put too much store in those figures.

[TheEvilDog]

True and they'll swap things around if needs be. But in the end, money talks and if the DCEU films continue like they are, WB might decide to cut their losses.

Of course, this means now that the future of the DCEU lies firmly on the shoulders of the Wonder Woman and the Justice League film, but also how the cinema going public views women led superhero films. Catwoman bombed and is generally considered tied with David Hasselhof as Nick Fury as the worst superhero film ever made. The executives just don't believe that women can't lead a hero film by themselves, which is of course bullshit. How Wonder Woman does will be hugely important, not just from a cash perspective, but from an equality one as well.

[Edguy]

I'm pretty sure Suicide Squad is going to make good money. It has been very well marketed, and it's the kind of movie that doesn't have to be all that good for a bunch of people to like it. Also, people are hungry for something similar after Deadpool!

[BenRG]

Cross-posted from the 'I saw (x) movie' thread:

I'm a little sad that the movie was so deeply flawed, even though I had a reasonably good time

This seems to be the viewpoint that I'm seeing in many viewers' reactions. Not a bad movie but has too many flaws and bad creative choices to ever get beyond 'mediocre/meh'.

[Method of Madness]

Fun mediocre is better than what we got with BvS.

[maxusy3k]

In BvS news, the guys at Auralnauts dropped this on Wednesday. I wish the Flash section was in the actual movie.

[LeeC]

[Method of Madness]

I actually rather liked Suicide Squad. It definitely had its flaws, but it's not nearly the shitshow people make it out to be.

[hedgie]

I'll probably see it, and enjoy it.  Then again, my expectations are so low at this point, that it can be mediocre and I'd still have fun.  I'll have to leave my brain at home, though.

[Edguy]

My friends and I went to see Suicide Squad tonight. Seen reviews so I knew it wasn't gonna live up to the hype, but I was still disappointed. At this point it 's rather clear that there is some inherent flaw within the DC/Warner production machine, because all their films have the same problems of confused scripts, tone all over the place, poorly used humor, absolutely no self-awareness and absolutely GODAWFUL editing. Seriously, the pacing and structure of BvS and SS are basically non-existant. It's kinda shocking how poorly put together these movies are, to be honest. All the movies are made up of mostly decent elements (decent casting, design, music, plot ideas) but the execution is just not there.

(click to show/hide)

For Suicide Squad specifically, I was very disappointed that it had to be some world ending, visual effects only threat. It makes little sense to me. I was hoping the Joker was gonna be the main/initial antagonist and that the plot would be a bit more down to earth, undercover sorta character driven story. But no, giant lightbeam, darkened sky, and New York generic large city in ruins. Also, the cinematography and choreography was very underwhelming. Ended up El Diably really being the only interesting character in fights since the physical fighting was so "uncreatively" shot.

For things I like, once again I think the casting and character design were good. Don't like the silly tattoos on the Joker, but other that that it's all good. Deadshot and Harley were good (as expected from the actors) though I felt like their characterization got a little soft at times. These hardcore criminals and psychopaths got very sentimental and caring about each other very quick, especially Harley. She had way too much empathy for my taste. On the other side we had Captain America Rick Flag not giving two shits about Waller just gunning down a bunch of people for shits and giggles. Boomerang was pretty cool, shame he didn't really do anything in the movie. My personal favorite is probably Diablo, he had a relatively steady character arc, had his moments in the movie and looked pretty cool.

After watching Suicide Squad, we went home and watched Kingsman. What a great movie that did so many of the things that SS tried and failed at right. Good cinematography, editing, pacing, use of music and comedic/dramatic timing is essential to humor/action movies like these, and here we have one example of how to do all these right and how to do all these wrong.

[Neko_Ali]

I also saw Suicide Squad today. My expectations were rock bottom, so I was happy it wasn't a complete garbage fire. It was even kind of decent in a 'detach your brain and just go with it' way. Though I couldn't help myself asking 'Why' to the screen in so many cases. Why were these people acting like this. Why did nobody seem to be bothering to stop the big world-ending thing until it was plot convenient. Why did they even put Katana in the movie if they were going to do absolutely nothing with her. The pacing was horrible as well. Taking way to long to introduce the characters with little in between to break it up. There was also the whole host of 'whys' around the existence and operation of the Suicide Squad.. But that is a given and you just got to roll with it. It's a pretty widely accepted fact I think that everyone knows what an incredibly stupid idea it is and why it would never work out. But just gloss over that because they want to see these bad guys working together as the stars.

It had it's good points. Many of the cast was superbly done and I sincerely hope to see Deadshot, Harley and Waller appear in more movies at least. Diablo probably has the strongest story arc, even through it never really goes anywhere. His story is really mostly told in flashback. Katana has the weakest as in it was basically non-existent. I do think that they kept the characters very close to what I've seen in the comics. Which is a huge plus for the DCEU. And I will say something that genuinely surprises me. I didn't hate Jared Leto as the Joker. From everything I had seen and read about him, I expected to absolutely hate him in the role. And mind you, of all the people who have played Mista J, I think his is the worst portrayal. But when you consider who else has been in this role and the absolutely character defining performances they have given him... Being the one who just played a 'meh' Joker isn't that bad, really. I do question strongly his motivation in he movie. That is far from any version of the character I've seen and doesn't really work.

In the end, I think it's worth a matinee trip. Or wait til it's on dvd and rent it. It's still not on par with the Marvel movies, or the DC animated movies. But it wasn't the horrible garbage fire of Dawn of Justice either.

[Blue Kitty]

Precious angels too good for this movie

[BenRG]

I'm pretty sure that there is going to be a 'Harley and Deadshot' film just because those are the only two in the film with charisma... or even a recognisable character.

[Edguy]

I think that's pretty unfair. I think Courtney was pretty funny, problem was he didn't get anything to do. And I really liked Hernandez (El Diablo). Also Smith & Robbie got very much all of the screen time and plot development, so..

Also, I think having Deadshot and Harley getting all friendly was pretty forced. Absolutely no reason for them to have anything other than forced association with each other, save for being the two most popular characters/actors.

[Neko_Ali]

They did have top billing, and it was no accident. Deadshot and Harley have pretty much been fixtures in the Suicide Squad comics. Well so has Captain Boomerang, but his role was more comic relief. He was seriously underused in the movie sadly. I think he was the worst casualty of trying to shove to many people into this film. It should be pointed out that Deadshot and Harley do have something of a working and occasionally sexual relationship in the comics during their time on the Squad. Most often as two people on the team who aren't complete unhinged psychopaths or entirely unreliable. Which given that ones is an immoral assassin for hire and the other is a criminally insane criminal with a string of violent assaults and murders on her sheet is saying something.

Why it failed in the movie is that they were given no reason to develop a reliance on each other or affection for each other. It was just put in the movie because they had it in the comics. Again, a flaw where they were trying to do way to much for one movie. There is a reason why Marvel studios didn't start with The Avengers first, then do the solo films. Pacing was shot to hell in Suicide Squad as they tried to shove the full origin of Harley, the origin of the Squad and mini-origins of the other characters into a movie that also had to main plot lines running.. The Squad's first mission and Joker trying to free Harley. That was about 4-5 movies worth of material they tried to shove into one.

[BenRG]

I've thought for a while that WB is putting on too much speed in an attempt to catch up with Disney and it's leading to compromised work all the way down the line.

[TheEvilDog]

Why it failed in the movie is that they were given no reason to develop a reliance on each other or affection for each other. It was just put in the movie because they had it in the comics. Again, a flaw where they were trying to do way to much for one movie. There is a reason why Marvel studios didn't start with The Avengers first, then do the solo films. Pacing was shot to hell in Suicide Squad as they tried to shove the full origin of Harley, the origin of the Squad and mini-origins of the other characters into a movie that also had to main plot lines running.. The Squad's first mission and Joker trying to free Harley. That was about 4-5 movies worth of material they tried to shove into one.

You've hit the nail on the head with the problem that Warner Brothers and DC are suffering from. Marvel and Disney have been making its cinematic universe since 2008, or at least setting up the possibility of it (no one knew that the first few films would be that successful), but its used that time to introduce key characters and to develop those stories, as well as slowly expand the overall Infinity Stones storyline.

Even with the success of the Dark Knight Saga, DC and Warner Brothers were very slow in developing a cinematic universe, possibly even getting to the point where they can't catch up. And so, we get films where a dozen interesting characters in the comics are thrown into something of a mess where there barely seems to be enough time to introduce them let alone develop their characters. Marvel took 4 years and 5 films to get to the point where the Avengers assembled, while DC tried to introduce a ensemble film of a lesser known property* in a year and after 2 films.

*lesser in the sense that people would think of the Justice League before they thought of Suicide Squad.

[Method of Madness]

I'm really hoping 2017 is DC's year, what with Wonder Woman and Justice League.

[Edguy]

I'm starting to lose faith that anything they'll make will be good at this point..

[TheEvilDog]

Well MoM is right in one regard. 2017 is going to have to be the year when DC and Warner Brothers success hinges on Wonder Woman and Justice League. Because if they flop then they might reconsider what they are doing.

As it happens, right now DC has four highly praised tv series based upon their work. It might become a case that they decide to concentrate on that aspect rather than film. (For all the cinematic success Marvel has had, and Daredevil and Jessica Jones notwithstanding, they have not had the best of luck with tv series, Agent Carter was cancelled after two series and Agents of SHIELD has been kind of forgotten about).

If DC really want to have a win over the distinguished competition, they really need to play up to their strengths at the moment. And at the moment that's not happening on the big screen.

[Neko_Ali]

Or follow their success with their animated movies and series. DC properties and characters make for good shows. The problem has always been they keep hiring the wrong people to make most of their live action films.

[Method of Madness]

I really wish Affleck was directing JL instead of Snyder.

[LeeC]

Rumor is the next animated batman movie will be voiced by the original cast of the 60s batman live action show...

[Kugai]

That's no rumor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jBRFNAXr8

[TheEvilDog]

Warner Brothers are currently looking at Mel Gibson to direct the Suicide Squad sequel.

I kind of get the feeling that if Jared Leto tries to send him a dead rat during production, he's going to get that rat whacked upside his head....

[Welu]

What the fuck. Why. For fuck sake.

[Method of Madness]

I kind of get the feeling that if Jared Leto tries to send him a dead rat during production, he's going to be the first person to deserve it.

Also this.

[Kugai]

Well, despite Mad Mel's history, he did do very well with his last directorial outing.  Whether he's the right pick for the Suicide Squad sequel is a debatable point at this stage though.

[Blue Kitty]

LEGO Batman is probably the best Batman movie there will ever be

[Kugai]

The Dark Knight scowls at you.

[TheEvilDog]

[Welu]

Lego Batman was loads of fun. I wish I could have watched it as a child because it was so fun and it is perfect for shameless excitement. Clearly squeezed in every possible licensed character they could for the maximum amount of tie-in merchandise but I don't even care. I had so much sheer joy while watching and I would watch it again right now.

Who would have thought Zach Galifianakis could be such a great Joker? Reminiscent of Mark Hamill's but not too close and survived being more kid-friendly extremely well.

I loved this movie.

[BenRG]

Rumours are appearing on the internet that Ben Affleck will have a cameo in Wonder Woman. This makes sense as at least one of the trailers suggests that the entire film is a flash-back narrated by Diana to someone and, in the end, who else would she have to whom to tell the story but Bruce Wayne?

This makes me wonder if WB have decided to copy the fan-popular Batman/Wonder Woman ship that was first seriously explored in the 1990s/2000s animated shows.

[Thrillho]

I don't understand the value of having a just-for-the-fans cameo in a film when half the fans just spoil it for themselves anyway.

Isn't the whole thrill of it not knowing it's going to happen?

[Method of Madness]

Agreed. And they're not just spoiing it for themselves.

[Kugai]

Meh

Was always a WW/SH fan shipper anyway

[LeeC]

WW/SH?

[Pilchard123]

Wonder Woman/someone else, at a guess.

[Kugai]

Sheesh, I fiured someone would have figured out the resident Thanagarians initials by now!!

[BenRG]

Diana and Shieyra? Well, each to their own ship.

Whilst on the subject of Wonder Woman:

Looks very, very good. I'm thinking that this film may save DCCU (or, possibly, create a standard that Zach simply can't live up to).

(click to show/hide)

Bad guy is Ares confirmed by implication: She tells the villain "In the name of all that is good, your wrath against this world is over!" She's definitely talking to one of the Olympians there (the use of the 'wrath' term) and who but the God of War would be behind the First World War?

[Akima]

By odd coincidence, a friend sent me a link to this image on DeviantArt over the weekend:


This Wonder Woman (神奇女侠 - shénqínǚxiá) obviously comes from the fabled land of Chinapan*, rather Themyscira, but I thought it was rather cool. The golden chain-whip in place of the lasso is quite clever.

*The okobo, face-paint, and the design of her headpiece look Japanese, while the rest of her outfit and equipment are more Chinese (especially the five-star red waist-sash ).

[BenRG]

I'll let this one speak for itself:

[Neko_Ali]

It seems quite dark. Both in terms of lighting, and that nobody really cracks a smile.  So.. par for the course. And they're leading off with parademons? No build up to the big bad huh? Just 'hey, here's an entire planet of bad guys, many of which could give Superman a run for his money, oh he's dead.' The character design I like, and what little I've seen of the actors I'm happy with.  Batman using guns again, including a recoilless rifle or cannon on the batmobile. And possibly a sort of bat-mecha. Bloodshed is definitely on the table.  Mera and the Amazons showing up is nice. Unless it gets completely panned the way Batman v Superman did, I'll go see it. I  hope it turns out good. But... I'm not holding my breath on it.

[Kugai]

And don't forget that Supes is in this mix somewhere.

[Neko_Ali]

Nope, Superman is 'dead' as of the end of Batman v Superman. Quotation  marks because of course he 'died' fighting Doomsday in the comics too. But at least he stayed dead for about a year then. Even odds that he'll be a final act 'surprise' in Justice League, or show up in the sequel. I'm fine with him not showing up, really. Henry Cavil has no charisma as Superman. Though to be fair the writers didn't give him anything to work with.

[BenRG]

Possible spoiler based on the comics:

(click to show/hide)

There is at least one Superman story where Superman is 'resurrected' with amnesia and ends up working for Darkseid (under the completely incomprehensible delusion that he's Darkseid's son) so Supes may come back as a brainwashed villain stooge.

[Kugai]

Well since they've been hinting at his return in this film,  I suspect we'll see him come into play somewhere in the last half or quarter of the film.

[TheEvilDog]

Either that or we see Hank Henshaw, the Eradicator and Superboy stepping in and trying to claim the title of Superman. Oh and John Henry Irons living up to the ideal and Supes returning in the next film.

Oh, and Batman can have his back broken (again) and Wonder Woman can be replaced by an unstable warrior from a sister city.

And in that moment, we shall realise we have been transported back in time to the mid 90s.

[Kugai]

*Runs away screaming incoherently*