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Author Topic: Detective Comics Cinematic Universe (formerly Man of Steel)  (Read 43928 times)

ackblom12

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I guess a fairly basic explanation is that they felt very much like the 'Superfriends' of Superman movies. Or the Adam West Batman, but nowhere near as amusing. Luthor was also more of a joke than a villain. I mean, as far as comic book movies go they're certainly better than 99% of what came along (I think the Burton Batman's are wonderful) up until the bit of revolution that the first X-Man movie started, but I don't think that makes them good.
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Edguy

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To be fair, I haven't seen them since I was a kid, but from the average "top X superhero movies" list and the RT/Mc scores, I'm pretty sure they were good movies (like I remember them) . :)

And obviously, a superhero movie made in the '70s would unavoidably have a certain degree of camp.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2013, 15:23 by Edguy »
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ackblom12

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I'm fine with camp. I just don't think it did a good job with it.
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Here are my thoughts
(click to show/hide)
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I am broke until friday so havnt seen it.  I have seen this though and wanted to share this little gem...
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You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

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An idea from 4chan for the next movie
(click to show/hide)
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Method of Madness

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So...would Lex be an anti-villain? Because that could actually be a natural progression from MoS, and I'd fully welcome it.
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ackblom12

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Well, by all rights that what Luthor has always been. He's (almost) always seen himself as a hero, albeit one with little to no use of what most people consider heroic traits.
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Edguy

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Arg, not getting to see it 'till Thursday.. C'mon!
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Well, by all rights that what Luthor has always been.
Yes, but never in the movies.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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ackblom12

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Oh yeah, definitely true.
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Blue Kitty

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Here's another review that echoes my thoughts perfectly
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While I agree that most of what he says is true, I disagree that most of what he finds objectionable is inherently so. There's just way too much "that's not how Superman should be", some of which is valid, but plenty just seems like "they changed it, now it sucks".
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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I guess it's the same every time they 'Reboot' the Universe(s).  There are always those who say that they've got it wrong, or this isn't how it's supposed to be.
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James The Kugai 

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expectations of self declared or realized cannon being held when changing media?
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You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Method of Madness

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Unreasonable expectations, yes.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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Edguy

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Ok, so I finally got to see it. My thoughts:

(click to show/hide)

Conclusion; with some stronger writing, DC could beat Marvel to a pulp. I'm looking forward to see what comes from here.
« Last Edit: 21 Jun 2013, 16:38 by Edguy »
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Lupercal

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BlueKitty, your thoughts on this resonate with mine 100%. Kudos for such a well thought out an intellectual breakdown of the movie!

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Blue Kitty's said my sentiments pretty much.

I enjoyed the film and I didn't think there was anything really bad about it, it just got a slightly enthused, "Huh." outta me. A little humour would have helped a lot. I really liked the opening segment.
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ackblom12

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Here's a take by a guy I know online. Keep in mind it's not so much a review (by his own admission) as it is him ranting about how one aspect of why he thought it was terrible. There's plenty of spoilers in it, so be warned.

The Second Coming of Krypton
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Sometimes I think, sometimes I am

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Was half of that crossed out intentionally?
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Welu

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I am broke until friday so havnt seen it.  I have seen this though and wanted to share this little gem...
[pic]

Couple issues is that the Avengers were fighting a lot more aliens and
(click to show/hide)
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ackblom12

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Well, a live action Batman/Superman crossover film has been confirmed for 2015.

I kind of despised Man of Steel and I'm not convinced they'll be able to match Nolan's talent with Batman's tale, so I'm not getting my hopes up.
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(click to show/hide)
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There's a difference to being bisexual and taking what you can get.
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Pa, not Papa.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Thrillho

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I ain't even mad.
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Edguy

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Well, a live action Batman/Superman crossover film has been confirmed for 2015.

I kind of despised Man of Steel and I'm not convinced they'll be able to match Nolan's talent with Batman's tale, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

Not the direction I was expecting. Though, that said, I expect this will be more of a Man of Steel sequel where Batman is introduced, rather than a 50/50 crossover. Could be pretty cool. Could also be pretty bad. We'll see.
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Yeah, they're bringing back Perry, Lois, and the general from the movie. They were surprisingly quiet about who's going to play Batman though.
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Edguy

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That's probably far from decided. Hopefully they are aware  that the (re-)casting of Bruce Wayne/Batman will be a big deal on the internet's hype machine. Casting  could be vital to whether the public accepts a re-imagining of the Dark Knight, or not.
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The interesting part of that is whether they'll - once again - reboot the Batman character, or roll over from the end of Dark Knight Rises.
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James The Kugai 

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Wait, is anyone actually thinking they won't reboot? Then again, it would be a way to avoid doing another origin movie, if they could get JGL as Batman. I just don't see them doing that, though.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Edguy

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Nolan's trilogy was just that; a trilogy, and it's over now. That has been confirmed by pretty much every person who was ever attached to anything. it also would make no sense, neither for the DC cinematic universe, or for Nolan's Batman universe, to mash the two together. There's still a lot of people of the internet who refuse to face this, though.

Also, they wouldn't have to do an origin movie to introduce Batman. Everybody and their mom knows his story by now, and it would be more fitting with a Bruce Wayne that's been in the business for a few years, when considering JL and the fact that he'll appear in the Man of Steel sequel ;)

All we need is some exposition in the first act of MoS II, telling of some vigilante that has been dealing with the mob in Gotham.
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Lupercal

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Probably not a coincidence that Bale has recently said he's not reprising his role. A good call because Nolan's universe basically got rid of anything supernatural - the brilliance of the brooding, self-destructive Batman Bale portrays is that he really could be anyone and the things that we see villians get up to - especially the Joker - could almost certainly happen in the real world. If you start to bring aliens and superpowers into it then the suspension of disbelief is lost, never to be recovered.

A lot of people will point to Joseph Gordon-Levitt for the Batman role - I've also heard Cumberbatch come up. The trick will be if they choose to use someone fairly unknown or not. Karl Urban might work. I think there's a workaround for the "origins" deal if you don't have about thirty-thousand flashbacks like Snyder did in MOS.
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ackblom12

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Actually, my favorite thing about Nolan's trilogy is exactly what makes some people I know really dislike it. Nolan's trilogy was, essentially, a critical deconstruction of the concept of a Costumed Hero and vigilantes. Nolan was not kind (though I do think he was fair) in his deconstruction and it could be easily argued he wasn't terribly kind to fans of the genre either. I think part of the issue I had with Man of Steel is that they tried this with Supes and did it poorly, not even going into the terrible dialogue, Pa Kent's incredibly stupid death and ridiculous plot holes. It was either Zack Snyder reaching way beyond his ability, which is what I expect, or he completely misunderstands the core of what makes Superman.
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Edguy

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I've always been of the opinion that Snyder should form a directing partnership with some other director, coop-ing films. He's an amazing visual director, probably the best in the world when it comes to bringing superhero action to life, but he lacks in the storytelling and plot building departments. And Nolan & Goyer aren't exactly helping.
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Method of Madness

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or he completely misunderstands the core of what makes Superman.
Superman's been around for the better part of a century. Does such a "core" really exist?
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

ackblom12

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Yes, though the packaging changes over the years.

What Superman is supposed to represent, and is consistent through his entire career, is basically the paragon of humanity. He is able to be what humanity strives to be because of his abilities. He's the human ideal that humanity can never be because of our limitations. This isn't to say you can't make darker stories for him, Kingdom Come and Red Son for example, but the core is still there even in those two.

Red Son is the story of a god who loses his way, accidentally spurning the very ideals of humanity which he himself idolized.

Kingdom Come is the story of Superman deciding that perhaps, the world isn't worth saving anymore, that maybe he actually was the harbinger of the fall of humanity with the rise of a pantheon of near god like beings and their offspring. A world in which Superman is literally worshipped by various religious sects, which makes him uncomfortable in a whole lot of ways.

But through these the core is the same... unless you count the really really shitty and edgy red/blue shit in the 90's, but fuck that.

It seems like Man of Steel was aiming for the critical deconstruction style of Nolan's Batman, making the case for Superman being the cause of far more grief than he could possibly stop, but it failed to make the character of Superman that paragon of humanity, which makes the movie feel hollow. Instead he's horribly reckless, is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of human deaths, a couple trillion in damages and the movie just had a terrible script anyways.
« Last Edit: 24 Jul 2013, 21:40 by ackblom12 »
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Blue Kitty

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I guess Bryan Cranston is, "up for the role," of Lex Luthor in the Superman/Batman movie. Of course, as io9 says, "up for the role," means anything from, "negotiating the contract," to, "his name is on a list." But style, that would be pretty badass.
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Edguy

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The most important thing about whoever plays Luthor, imo, is that is able to appear convincingly smart and confident. I just hope they don't try to hard to make him an evil villain for the mainstream audience; he's much better as an anti-villain.

Same goes for the casting of Batman (and the writing, even more so); make him clever. Especially now that he's not the main character, it's important that they write him smart and one step ahead most. That's what makes Batman cool. In Nolan's films the villains were always the ones toying with Bats, and never the other way around. A lot of that, tho were that he were the main character, and there had to be a certain amount of drama. With the camera mainly on Supes tho, and Batman being established as experienced, he can be written much smarter. A support character don't need a drama arc.
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Method of Madness

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Bryan Cranston is, "up for the role," of Lex Luthor
I want this so much you have no idea.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

ackblom12

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Oh my god I would forever love that casting choice.
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Edguy

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He's nearing 60, tho..

While I agree he's a great choice, he's at least 10 years too old.
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ackblom12

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Meh, I got no problems with them deciding to move on to an older Lex.
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Agreed.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Thrillho

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Age is only relevant for a Luthor if you think he's going to be fistfighting Superman. But that was never the point. The point of Lex is that he outsmarts Superman and finds other ways to fuck with him.
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Well said. Honestly, if they cast anyone else I'll probably be disappointed now.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

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Nothing worse than wannabe comedic vomit strung together with hashtags pretending to be observational.

I'm sorry, I just find Twitter backlash incredibly stupid.
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