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Author Topic: Gunsmithing (no politics)  (Read 68590 times)

GarandMarine

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #50 on: 24 Oct 2013, 07:38 »

....if I can have ANY .30 caliber rifle I will take it over a 5.56 caliber for just about any purpose other then deer hunting. Now that I get to pick my own ammo I just prefer high caliber, powerful full rifle rounds, and military battle rifles in particular. (Now I need to go see a man about an FAL...)
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #51 on: 24 Oct 2013, 09:07 »

(Comment about gun images removed)
« Last Edit: 24 Oct 2013, 14:19 by pwhodges »
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #52 on: 24 Oct 2013, 10:07 »

Right on. Was there a specific problem post you'd like one of us to edit Hodges?


In other news I think I found my rifle scope... eventually. Any opinions on Nikon?
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-P-223-3x32-Matte-Carbine/dp/B006Z07JTE/ref=psdc27_t2_B005UGIMNQ_B006Z07JTE

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #53 on: 24 Oct 2013, 10:12 »

It's actually Grognard's last post that tipped it for me; but I'll be satisfied with using spoilers in this thread when no technical gunsmithing issues are being discussed.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #54 on: 24 Oct 2013, 13:33 »

I apologize and have editted my post.

sometimes it's hard to describe a difference in beauty without a picture, because the picture can say more than my 10k worth of words.  But I will try to conform with the spoiler rule better.

Anyone have recommendations for putting a scope on a Stevens model 65 pump shotgun?
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #55 on: 24 Oct 2013, 13:57 »

I apologise for the lack of clarity; but as the result of a discussion among the mods, we have decided that within this thread which is specifically about guns, I was being stricter than necessary.  This thread is about guns - those who don't wish to see guns can safely avoid it because the title clearly says what it is, so I will not insist on spoilers.

Thanks to you both for being prepared to cooperate, though!
« Last Edit: 24 Oct 2013, 14:24 by pwhodges »
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #56 on: 05 Nov 2013, 18:39 »

Lately I've been playing with the idea of a compact version of the Tokarev pistol as a back up to my carry pistol which happens to be a Yugo Tokarev. My only problem is finding a shorter barrel, slide and recoil spring. The recoil spring and slide would be the hardest from a engineering point. Any suggestions or ideas? I'm planning to use a standard Romanian or Polish frame and just matching them to the shortened upper.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #57 on: 05 Nov 2013, 19:17 »

My first thought is to cut and weld the slide in the middle, to remove material between the locking lug recesses and the bushing track.  I don't think there's enough meat to machine a new bushing track if you just shorten the slide from the front end.  Shouldn't be any problem shortening the guide rod to match, but you'll have to bump up to a stiffer spring to account for the lighter slide.  That's a pretty ambitious project though.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #58 on: 05 Nov 2013, 19:25 »

My first thought is to cut and weld the slide in the middle, to remove material between the locking lug recesses and the bushing track.  I don't think there's enough meat to machine a new bushing track if you just shorten the slide from the front end.  Shouldn't be any problem shortening the guide rod to match, but you'll have to bump up to a stiffer spring to account for the lighter slide.  That's a pretty ambitious project though.

The slide shouldn't be a problem then. My father can do the welding. The spring however is what I'm concerned with. I don't know what the standard spring is rated for and what I will need for the new slide.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #59 on: 05 Nov 2013, 19:27 »

Yeah that's a serious piece of work. I concur with CSM in general, I'd have to look at a Tokarev in person and think about it before I had any concrete thoughts on the project.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #60 on: 05 Nov 2013, 19:32 »

Yeah that's a serious piece of work. I concur with CSM in general, I'd have to look at a Tokarev in person and think about it before I had any concrete thoughts on the project.

Just think 1911 but a bit smaller. Though the take down is a million times easier.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #61 on: 05 Nov 2013, 20:03 »

The 1911's take down is hard?
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #62 on: 05 Nov 2013, 20:06 »

Nope, that's what I mean.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #63 on: 05 Nov 2013, 20:11 »

Thing I've noticed with the Tokarev is you're still supposed to take the bushing/recoil plug/spring out the front end before you take the slide off the frame or you're likely to kink the recoil spring, as with the 1911, but apparently I'm the only person who actually does it that way if the YouTube videos are to be believed.  The Tokarev's lockwork is an order of magnitude less complicated though.

Fun fact: I can strip and reassemble a Tokarev entirely using only my right hand.  Getting the spring and bushing back in involves equal parts pain, magic, and creative use of work surfaces.

Thinking about it now, you may be better off turning the guide rod to a slightly smaller diameter and using dual coaxial springs to get more power in a shorter fully-compressed length.  Finding a spring of the right inside and outside diameter, power, and fully compressed length - especially considering it also has to fit what, an inch?  Less space than you'd normally have because of the shortened slide - is going to be a pain.  Wolff doesn't list the power of their replacement recoil springs on their page, but I suppose you could email them and ask them.  Then make the total spring power 4lb-6lb greater than stock, and trim off half a ring at a time from one of the springs while test-firing until it cycles reliably.  Important thing to remember about doing a dual spring setup like that is to make sure the inside and outside springs turn in opposite directions, otherwise the coils will get tangled up in each other and cause the gun to short-stroke.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #64 on: 05 Nov 2013, 21:03 »

Thing is though is that the dual springs add a slight possibility of failure. The Tokarev is absurdly reliable even when compared to a Glock. Which I'm proud to say that my fifty year old  Tokarev out performed a brand new Glock and a brand new Kimber. Gotta love soviet guns.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #65 on: 13 Nov 2013, 21:18 »



Favorite breath control tricks? I've been working my ass off trying to get a proper "half breath" for long range shooting. It's a bear. The lack of an actual range to practice on doesn't help much either.

A guidance trick that can help with jerking the trigger is, from the firing position, finger on the trigger, keep your second knuckle of the firing finger aligned parallel to the pistol, it requires a little more effort, as you'll be engaging less muscle to your trigger pull, but you're engaging the weapon and exerting force on it much more cleanly, which will keep your weapon on target better.

If any of you active shooters don't have one already, pick up a guitarist "work out" grip, beef up your fingers, those gorilla grips to get the whole hand and wrist are excellent as well. I find keeping fingers, hand and wrist in good work improves stability, as well as making pretty much anything else interacting with the weapon with one's hands a better operation.

Do any of you guys practice failure drills regularly?
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #66 on: 14 Nov 2013, 10:28 »

stove pipe clearing ?
yep
Tap, Rack, Bang.
oh yeah.

just got to.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #67 on: 27 Nov 2013, 07:45 »



I know it's impractical, but I fully intend to make one of these.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #68 on: 29 Nov 2013, 08:27 »

I need a thousand dollars... well make that $1500
 I need one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-PRO-Patrol-Rifle-Optic/dp/B007GDR0I4/ref=sr_1_1?s=hunting-fishing&srs=2581843011&ie=UTF8&qid=1385741614&sr=1-1&keywords=aimpoint

I also need a .300 Blackout / .300 Whisper upper for my AR-15 and then a scope for that as well.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #69 on: 04 Jan 2014, 18:21 »



I have a lot of initial responses to this pistol

Notably:
(click to show/hide)

That it's a very lovely and artistic piece aside, I kinda wonder how it impacts basic operation. One of the things I love most about the 1911 platform is it's balance. The full size 1911 is balanced and perfect, and in my hands at least I barely feel the recoil, it's motion is literally an extension of my body and was from the very first time I held one.

So looking at this design besides the aesthetic characteristics of the cut. I'm thinking it could potentially have a significant negative impact on performance, increasing felt recoil, and opening lots of opportunity for snagging and fowling.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #70 on: 26 Jan 2014, 05:47 »


Oh... oh my~ That is some SERIOUS ballistically lethal ammunition. I /need/ a box of that in .45
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #71 on: 26 Jan 2014, 13:48 »

how about wrapping your noggin around THIS concept...

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #72 on: 26 Jan 2014, 13:56 »

Is there a meaningful difference between a fully-automatic pistol and a submachine gun?
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #73 on: 26 Jan 2014, 14:10 »

Pistols usually have 5" or less barrels, and even when full auto capable, are clearly handguns.

submachine guns are usually carbine type weapons.

but there can be a lot of 'grey' area between the two.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #74 on: 26 Jan 2014, 14:29 »

Right, by "meaningful" I meant are there any weapons that could be considered both or either?
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #75 on: 26 Jan 2014, 17:56 »

Errr. Yes and no? Like Grog said it's a grey area. The MP5-K and MP7 could probably be considered both as they're compact sub-machine guns.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #76 on: 26 Jan 2014, 21:35 »

EXAMPLE

the Glock18 select fire is what Most people consider a Sub-Machine Pistol.
1. select fire: Safe, Single, Automatic.
2. frame is built to accept a shoulder stock.
3. slightly (+.5") longer barrel.

so it is not a Sub Machine Gun ala Thompson M1928A1 or Standard UZI.

hope this helps in absolutely confusing you. :D
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #77 on: 26 Jan 2014, 21:38 »

Honestly this is one of those things where I just let it go, and use the "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" method.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #78 on: 26 Jan 2014, 21:40 »

Letting things go was never my strong suit.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #79 on: 26 Jan 2014, 21:45 »

You are correct to maintain a firm grip on your weapon.




deadly weapon, :D friendly weapon:  whatev'....
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #80 on: 26 Jan 2014, 21:53 »

Then think of it like a venn diagram. Automatic pistols are handguns, that fire handgun caliber rounds. Sub-Machineguns are carbine sized weapons that fire handgun caliber rounds. Some weird models are in between those standards. However my general rule of thumb is unless it's a handgun modified to fire at a fully automatic rate like that Glock 18 above, it's a submachine gun.




So this MAC-10 and Mico Uzi are both submachine guns

and this Beretta 93R


Is a pistol.

Personally I avoid the term machine pistol just because it can be confused with German terminology for a submachine gun.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #82 on: 28 Jan 2014, 14:05 »

Yes, even if it is too late.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #83 on: 22 Feb 2014, 21:28 »

Yesterday I cleaned a Browning M2 HB .50 caliber machine gun that was stamped as being manufactured by the AC Spark Plug Division of General Motors. Looked into things a little further, and it turns out what that means is that particular machine gun was manufactured during WWII. Makes me wonder if there's some way to trace serial numbers and get some sort of timeline on the weapon's life, where it's been, etc. History like that fascinates me.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #84 on: 23 Feb 2014, 11:36 »

Reminds me of the life of a bullet video in the beginning of Lord of War.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #85 on: 23 Feb 2014, 11:55 »

Yesterday I cleaned a Browning M2 HB .50 caliber machine gun that was stamped as being manufactured by the AC Spark Plug Division of General Motors. Looked into things a little further, and it turns out what that means is that particular machine gun was manufactured during WWII. Makes me wonder if there's some way to trace serial numbers and get some sort of timeline on the weapon's life, where it's been, etc. History like that fascinates me.

If you find the original serial number there should be. I know for the M1 Garand in particular there's whole websites dedicated to doing "firearm genealogy"
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #86 on: 18 Mar 2014, 10:12 »



I don't think supressors should heat up like that >.>;

In other news here's a fun project build desecrating a Mosin Nagant:
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1912170_678368168868923_2022101931_n.jpg
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #87 on: 18 Mar 2014, 10:34 »

anyone have an idea how much gunsmithing labor costs (by the hour?)

Also: this is my rifle.
.50 caliber (12.7mm) black powder, muzzleloader of the Hawken style, with a percussion cap lock.

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #88 on: 18 Mar 2014, 10:47 »

Lovely piece Groggy! and it depends on the area, but labor costs depending on skill level and what's being done can run from $25-50/hr more if you're going to a specialist in a particular procedure.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #89 on: 18 Mar 2014, 20:15 »

I'm looking to get some sling swivels mounted and maybe scopes.

My T/C Arms Hawken is a 1974 manufacture.
the rifle is capable of 250 yards maximum effective range:
I can hit an 8" (200mm) target w/10-15% accuracy.
but for MY maximum effective (50%+) I'm only good out to 175-180.
Historically, the Hawken rifle was able to make 300+ yard shots.
how?   it is said that hunger hones the skills.


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GarandMarine

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #90 on: 18 Mar 2014, 21:31 »

drilling and tapping stuff's usually pretty cheap and easy.
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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #91 on: 19 Mar 2014, 02:07 »

The established forum rules about picturing guns remain in place outside this thread: pictures that show guns simply for their own sake are not allowed; but in this thread pictures can be included that help to explain a point being made or demonstrate the result of a technique being discussed.

Global Moderator Comment The last few posts seem to me to be outside what is permitted for this thread. They seem to me to be showing pictures of guns for their own sake, which remains prohibited.
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Nikolai

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #92 on: 19 Mar 2014, 06:07 »

(click to show/hide)
I don't think supressors should heat up like that >.>;

In other news here's a fun project build desecrating a Mosin Nagant:
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1912170_678368168868923_2022101931_n.jpg

The link is the same picture as posted. Also, I'm genuinely curious as to how many rounds they fired to make the suppressor glow. Enough to warrant the wear of a mask, obviously...
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GarandMarine

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #93 on: 19 Mar 2014, 06:33 »

Whoops. Epic fail: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/jeremy-s/project-build-ultimate-mosin-nagant/

I thought the heating effect of that testing was interesting... and it appears my comments to that effect vanished along with the right link >.>;

Also I thought the last couple posts of the muzzle loader was Groggy displaying the weapon he wanted modified so I could give him a better off the top of my head estimate.
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pwhodges

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #94 on: 19 Mar 2014, 06:34 »

Ah, OK - I wasn't clear (probably didn't read enough).
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GarandMarine

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #95 on: 21 Mar 2014, 21:23 »

And now a brief guide on adding or updating surplus military rifles.




Agree or disagree ladies and gents? I personally HATE tacticooling rifles, particularly Moist Nuggets or SKSs, AKs... okay there's a bet of give there, but those dust cover scope mounts make me want to beat someone to death with their own leg.
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Grognard

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #96 on: 23 Mar 2014, 06:42 »

I can agree and disagree with you there.
I agree in that, when you've a proven good rifle, anything more than the telescopic mount factory designed for that rifle... you are ruining the aesthetics.  I.E., the sniper systems used in WW2, look great and work with the flow of the weapons.

Besides, putting a dust cover scope mount on an AK or SKS is an exercise in futility. 
Every single shot, that dust cover MOVES.
which means after the first shot, you are not dialed in any more.
and you wouldn't want to mount a light that far aft and block your sights.

I guess I'm saying I agree with useful accessories that don't detract from the overall function or appearance of the weapon.

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #97 on: 23 Mar 2014, 08:25 »

I thought "tacticooling" referred explicitly to accessories that do either or both of those things.
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GarandMarine

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #98 on: 23 Mar 2014, 08:39 »

Factory scope mounts don't count as tacticooling in my mind. Tacticooling doesn't necessarily mean accessories that don't detract from the overall function or appearance of the weapon. It's throwing unnecessary crap on your weapon for no good reason at all. 

http://imgur.com/a/RAo2C
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Grognard

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Re: Gunsmithing (no politics)
« Reply #99 on: 23 Mar 2014, 09:21 »

That is hilarious!!!!
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