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Poll

Best type of bread:

white
- 8 (5.5%)
wheat
- 3 (2.1%)
whole wheat
- 18 (12.4%)
rye
- 15 (10.3%)
pumpernickel
- 10 (6.9%)
sourdough
- 25 (17.2%)
flatbread
- 3 (2.1%)
pita
- 7 (4.8%)
crumpet
- 9 (6.2%)
hardtack
- 4 (2.8%)
ciabatta
- 8 (5.5%)
cornbread
- 15 (10.3%)
one of the scores of varieties not mentioned
- 20 (13.8%)

Total Members Voted: 79

Voting closed: 10 Jul 2013, 07:49


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Author Topic: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)  (Read 57547 times)

cesium133

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #200 on: 10 Jul 2013, 15:41 »

Whenever I see the acronym AR, I tend to think "Anti-reflection" as in an anti-reflection coating on a lens, rather than "augmented reality."
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #201 on: 10 Jul 2013, 15:48 »

Ok, let's pick some example numbers off a cloud here. Let's say I'm taking to you, and the meaning of a word comes up. I pull out my phone and Google for the definition. I'm still giving 75%+ of my attention to you and our conversation, which to be completely honest I could maintain with 50% or less. I divert the remaining 25% to find the definition of the word.

Who is "wrong" in this situation? Me, for 'being disrespectful' and 'rude' by doing other things already related to our conversation or you, for being so high and mighty that you demand 100% attention focused on you at all times because what you're saying is that world changingly important?

It makes you an ass. It does not make me rude.

And for all you luddites out there, replace 'pull out phone' with 'walk over to the bookshelf and grab a dictionary'  - the situation is the same.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #202 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:07 »

Empathize.

If I'm talking to you and your attention appears to be diverted, how do I know if you're hearing me or not? That doesn't have anything to do with the world-changing content of my speech, but whether or not we're having a conversation.

If I'm not sure if you're listening, how and when will I find out?

Can you say that this has never, ever happened to you?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #203 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:11 »

Considering the definition of a conversation is two or more people conversing, would not the fact of whether or not I am saying anything, or responding in some way (head nodding, ect) be plenty indicator enough?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #204 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:16 »

Maybe. Maybe not.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #205 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:23 »

When somebody pulls his phone out of the pocket to check a definition online or something like that I'll stop talking. I'll wait for you to find the solution until I start talking again.

I try to look at people when I talk with them. It's difficult to me, but I consider it impolite not to. It's not necessary to keep eye contact the whole time, but looking at the person every once in a while and not doing something else is to me. When I listen to somebody that will show them that I care about whatever they say. I'll even do this if I don't care, just because it's polite. If you'd watch me in my daily life you'd notice me doing something while listening to a conversation, and when I want to take part in it I'll put down whatever it is I'm doing and turn towards the people talking. Regular thing to happen in our hackerspace: some people talk with each other about something, and this one person jumps into the conversation without even looking up from his notebook. The people talking earlier bedazzledly look at him for a second before continuing. This is something we all consider very rude. And I doubt you'd call hackerspace members "luddites".

With these glasses, I'd only buy some of these if they had a way of blanking them. Much like locking a smartphone. It doesn't need to be turned off, just dark. When talking to somebody I'd blank them, unless there is something like the aforementioned "looking something up", and I'd expect others to do the same.

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To me that would just leave the impression of impatience. Body language is important. If somebody isn't turned in my direction while I'm talking to them I'll interpret it as a "I don't care about what you say anyway", or short as a "Fuck you" in my general direction.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #206 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:27 »

See, i take that as the complete opposite - clearly you don't find what you have to say to be that important if the slightest distraction or deviation from what you wanted is enough to completely throw you off.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #207 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:36 »

It's not the importance of what I say, but the importance of the other person to me. I don't care if what I'm talking about is important or not, but it's good to show the conversational partner that (s)he is important enough to you to deserve your full attention.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #208 on: 10 Jul 2013, 16:43 »

Who is "wrong" in this situation? Me, for 'being disrespectful' and 'rude' by doing other things already related to our conversation or you, for being so high and mighty that you demand 100% attention focused on you at all times because what you're saying is that world changingly important?

It makes you an ass. It does not make me rude.

Neither, objectively.

Subjectively, since that's the only way those terms can be applied, it's a matter of perspective. If it were me, I'd probably ask what you were doing if you abruptly started Googling something/looking for a book in the middle of a conversation and then, when you explained you were educating yourself about something I'd mentioned that you didn't understand, I'd probably wait until you were done searching to continue (as it would be silly to keep talking about something you've just admit to knowing nothing about until you've caught up with me).

On the flipside, if you said something I didn't get, I'd probably look to the most direct and pertinent method of clarification available in a conversation: asking you what it means. If neither of us knows, I might look it up later, or suggest looking it up at the time, but putting the conversation on hold because I need to know what that word means right now just seems sorta...odd. And not putting the conversation on hold to go look up the thing right now is even weirder, since you're still thinking about the thing you're looking up even though you're probably not still talking about it by that point.

I doubt I'd think you're rude for doing it. Impatient, though, definitely, and rude if you then treat me like an ass for not wanting to keep talking to the back of your head while you Google something.

Basically you summed it up at the end of your question. It's not that every word someone says to you is "world changingly important." It's that, by making it clear you don't feel the conversation is particularly important, you're visibly attributing reduced importance (and thereby respect) to the interaction. So in that sense, yes, indicating you don't feel whatever's being said calls for your undivided attention is pretty rude. Even if it isn't important, that doesn't mean you have to show them you feel that way. Doing so is simply impolite.

Comparison that will no doubt be cast aside with a "that's not the same thing" but is none the less comparable: you're at home reading a book on the couch in your living room. A sibling/spouse/parent/whatever comes in the front door and says, "I'm home." You don't respond because, hey, you're right there on the couch beside the front door - obviously you already knew they were home before they said it. You didn't need to be directly informed of their arrival, and even if you hadn't noticed, it's not important information anyway. They're home now, that's all. No big deal.

...yeah, that's probably not going to have a positive impact on whoever just got home, given it suggests you don't care about them. That might not be true, but it's the impression given by not responding with at least a simple, "Hi." Or "Welcome back." Or some other indication you recognize their presence as another person.

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #209 on: 10 Jul 2013, 18:27 »

The tech version of rose coloured glasses?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #210 on: 10 Jul 2013, 18:48 »

It's entirely possible that the AR field doesn't have audio, so he's only seeing video or script, not "hearing" anything.

I honestly don't know how he'd do it, though. Unless the projection is on the lower half of the glasses, you wouldn't be able to see through the lenses - and that would drive me CRAZY. (Of course, that's because I'm incredibly nearsighted.)
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #211 on: 10 Jul 2013, 18:56 »

Not necessarily. It said AR, not VR. Augmented. Quite possibly it's a transparent OLED Display, that he can see right through.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #212 on: 10 Jul 2013, 19:05 »

In such proximity to the eye a OLED display probably wouldn't be legible. You'd need to use method of projection which allows you to adjust the depth the user perceives, so HUD elements would probably be in focus in usual reading distance.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #214 on: 10 Jul 2013, 19:50 »

In my experience, people insist on respect and attention from others, in inverse proportion to the extent they give it to others. Those most inclined to demand it are the least likely to give it.

The focal plane of AR glasses would be an interesting exercise in visual-interface design, and ideally your glasses would need to be "aware" of what your eyes were focussed on. If, for example, your glasses were superimposing navigation prompts from a GPS on your field of view, those prompts would need to be in-focus when your eyes were focussed at a distance. If you were dealing with someone across a desk the relevant "plane" of focus would be much closer.
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ankhtahr

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #215 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:01 »

Still the short distance between eye and "screen" would make it impossible to focus. You wouldn't be able to see a sharp image. Hold your smartphone in glasses distance of your eye. No matter how much you zoom, it won't be comfortable for reading. It would even be worse for a HUD, as you would constantly shift the focus distance of your eye from extremely close up (screen) to far away (whatever you're looking at). Electronic viewfinders use multiple lenses to appear in focus, you can't do that with glasses. You could however use projections to virtually set a long focus distance.

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I don't think so. Like I said I'll always put down whatever I do when entering a conversation to give my attention, but expect others to do the same. I won't say/do anything about it if they don't, but the person would be remembered as impolite by me.
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mtmerrick

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #216 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:09 »

Perhaps a manual focus, at least in the early version? They'd be fitted to your eyes when you get them, so it knows how/where your eyes focus, and then a slider (or touchpad?) on the arm to "zoom" your focus in and out. And if its at the opposite spectrum (zoomed out focus when you're reading, ect) you should be able to see through it (with the whole 'hold a finger in front of one eye' thing)

Or maybe they just read brainwaves.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #217 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:15 »

Dale doesn't know that girls go to the bathroom together to chat privately?

Either that or Momo is changing the water in her eel tank.
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ankhtahr

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #218 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:21 »

Wasn't the eel tank a feature of Momo's previous chassis?

Anyway, any speculations on what results could have appeared?

This is now the second time this week that I read the comic before going to bed. I should think about my sleep schedule.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #219 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:49 »

Dale must have ran afoul of rule 34.

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #220 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:56 »

He'll never think about Momo the same way again. Poor Dale.  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #221 on: 10 Jul 2013, 20:57 »

Dale clearly hasn't seen the pack behavior of human females in the wild before.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #222 on: 10 Jul 2013, 21:02 »

 I remember that Pintsize "had to" use the bathroom before, but that's all i have.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #223 on: 10 Jul 2013, 21:04 »

Woo early comic. I'm actually at walmart, and this had me laughing in the middle of an aisle.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #224 on: 10 Jul 2013, 21:09 »

Electronic viewfinders use multiple lenses to appear in focus, you can't do that with glasses.
It depends where you put the lens system, and how you pass the image into the eye. You probably wouldn't want to put the lens system in front of the eye like night-vision goggles, so you'd need to put it behind or alongside the eye and reflect it back, as I think the Google Glass and Oakley Airwave goggles both do. I wear goggles for cycling, and I'm following this technology with interest; I would like to be able to operate/read my GPS/bike-computer without taking my eyes off the road. Gratuitous pic of Motoko Kusanagi paying proper attention to every word you say:


Judging from Momo's hesitation, I think she's simply working off her social-protocol database of appropriate female behaviour. And Dale needs a smack from the clue-bat, but it's a bit harsh to sear his retinas like that.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #225 on: 10 Jul 2013, 21:16 »

Akima, have you checked out the recon jet? Its like a pair of Google glass sunglasses specifically designed for sports/fitness. I'm personally not too interested due to the fairly specified software, but it seems perfect for you.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #226 on: 10 Jul 2013, 21:39 »

Still waiting for an Ap that will sync my google glass with an attachment on my rifle.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #227 on: 10 Jul 2013, 22:45 »

What, no comments on the vaguely Faye looking waitress?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #228 on: 10 Jul 2013, 22:46 »

Eh, I noticed it before, but now that I'm seeing her I don't see the resemblance anymore.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #229 on: 11 Jul 2013, 00:22 »

Can Dale really be that oblivious? Even if he does not know that women talk in the bathroom, in this situation it is so very obvious that Momo has something that needs saying to Marigold.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #230 on: 11 Jul 2013, 00:36 »

Eh, if I was slightly more oblivious, didn't know that women* talk in the bathroom and my prior assumption was that she really needs to use the bathroom, it wouldn't be obvious to me.

I hope we get to see some beautiful mirror perspectives tomorrow.


*...did we ever discuss the topic of gender identity of AnthroPCs? Do we even know if Momo considers herself female?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #231 on: 11 Jul 2013, 00:53 »

It's a software setting. I'm too lazy to look up the relevant comic but it's linked from the AnthroPC article on the wiki.

Momo did pick out a female-appearing chassis.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #232 on: 11 Jul 2013, 00:57 »

from a purely technical standpoint there's no real reason to program robots to have gender identities, and thus it doesn't make much sense for them to have them. however we do see a.i. in questionable content display a lot of human-like behavior that doesn't seem to make sense in a functional standpoint (enjoying cake batter for example), so it's quite possible.

one might speculate that it's a result of observational learning, that they go beyond simple mimicry and actively incorporate observed behavior into their operating systems.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #233 on: 11 Jul 2013, 01:20 »

My best guess is that the glasses are on "stand by" while he's talking to Marigold. The glowing might be constant regardless.

In my experience, people insist on respect and attention from others, in inverse proportion to the extent they give it to others. Those most inclined to demand it are the least likely to give it.
Thank you for saying that... :)

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #234 on: 11 Jul 2013, 01:59 »

Dale has terrible posture.  Just sayin'
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #235 on: 11 Jul 2013, 02:58 »

Selecting genders would be a way for AnthroPCs to mesh better with humans. And, it could very well be an attempt to avoid "default male" from happening with a non-gendered robot, by the human developers of the AIs.

Also, it's been stated that AIs have a form of sexual reproduction (even if that's not the primary way they're formed).
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #236 on: 11 Jul 2013, 03:20 »

Still waiting for an Ap that will sync my google glass with an attachment on my rifle.
Not quite yet, Saito!

That Recon Jet gadget looks interesting. I generally prefer goggles to glasses for riding, but it certainly shows what can be done, and I'll have to read up on it.

Unlike Pintsize, or PT410x, Momo's chassis has always had a feminine style, albeit a chibi one at first, and she selected a female-appearing replacement chassis when given the opportunity to change. I don't know if Momo considers herself female, but she certainly chooses to present that way in body-type, hair-style, clothing etc.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #237 on: 11 Jul 2013, 03:25 »

Looks like Rule 34 was too much for Dale...
I really wonder where Jeph is going with that storyline.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #238 on: 11 Jul 2013, 03:31 »

Do we even know if Momo considers herself female?

She certainly appears to in this strip
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #239 on: 11 Jul 2013, 03:33 »

Eh, if I was slightly more oblivious, didn't know that women* talk in the bathroom and my prior assumption was that she really needs to use the bathroom, it wouldn't be obvious to me.

Coming just after Momo twice correcting Marigold's behavior, it was blindingly obvious to me.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #240 on: 11 Jul 2013, 03:43 »

I think the whole  revealing-why-Dale's-glasses-glow thing could have been handled so much better by skipping 2487 and just having  today's comic.

Having 2488 as a follow-on to 2487 makes today's joke  feel a bit laboured. Heck, even switching them would work better, though I guess that would preclude tomorrow's somewhat inevitable conference-in-the-lady's-room scene.
« Last Edit: 11 Jul 2013, 03:54 by katsmeat »
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billydaking

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #241 on: 11 Jul 2013, 04:28 »

Ok, let's pick some example numbers off a cloud here. Let's say I'm taking to you, and the meaning of a word comes up. I pull out my phone and Google for the definition. I'm still giving 75%+ of my attention to you and our conversation, which to be completely honest I could maintain with 50% or less. I divert the remaining 25% to find the definition of the word.

Who is "wrong" in this situation? Me, for 'being disrespectful' and 'rude' by doing other things already related to our conversation or you, for being so high and mighty that you demand 100% attention focused on you at all times because what you're saying is that world changingly important?

It makes you an ass. It does not make me rude.

And for all you luddites out there, replace 'pull out phone' with 'walk over to the bookshelf and grab a dictionary'  - the situation is the same.

How about you simply ask me what the meaning of the word is?

The whole point of conversing with someone is to interact with him or her. The minute you pull out a phone, you are disengaging with them, either completely or partly. The person you're speaking with probably doesn't even know why you've suddenly pulled out your phone to go online. Being rude is partially about the impressions you make by your own actions, intentional or not.

And if you suddenly get up, walk over to a bookshelf, and grab a dictionary when somebody's in the middle of talking to you, you are an ass. I'm 40 plus years old, so I lived in an era before cell phones, much less smart phones, and nobody did that. They simply asked, since, hey, we're already talking to each other. Unplug your bedamned self.

I have a friend who just moved to the United States from France, and while she speaks English very well, there are the damnedest spaces in her vocabulary. She never hesitates to ask me when she doesn't understand something, and I never hesitate to stop and ask her when she looks confused. That's what a conversation is...engaging with someone and paying attention to them, rather than only giving them part of your time.
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DSL

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #242 on: 11 Jul 2013, 05:21 »

I try to put things in context. If I'm talking with someone and something comes up whose meaning we can't determine between us, I don't consider it rude for either of us to say, "let's look it up" and consult whatever's handy. We're still engaging each other.

If, however, you're like a former boss of mine who practiced "air golf swings" in the middle of you trying to talk to him, then yeah, you're an ass, technology or no. Context of that was that he made a point of letting you know, verbally or nonverbally, there was always something more important on his mind.

Mostly I agree with Akima's observation that those who demand the most respect give the least (and my corollary: those who demand the most respect COMmand the least) -- but I also worked in an environment in which it was increasingly true that politeness and the giving of respect was seen as a weakness. Feel free to use the phrase "vicious circle" to describe the situation in which I found myself until I got fed up and gave five seconds notice.
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K1dmor

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #243 on: 11 Jul 2013, 05:25 »

Who is "wrong" in this situation? Me, for 'being disrespectful' and 'rude' by doing other things already related to our conversation or you, for being so high and mighty that you demand 100% attention focused on you at all times because what you're saying is that world changingly important?

 
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #244 on: 11 Jul 2013, 05:55 »

Dale asked for that. I mean literally. He verbally asked his glasses to google the information. He can't now complain that it gave him something he didn't want.

And why was safesearch off on his glasses in the first place? Hmmmmm.
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #245 on: 11 Jul 2013, 06:12 »

Of course. What else would you use those things for?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #246 on: 11 Jul 2013, 06:16 »

Dale asked for that. I mean literally. He verbally asked his glasses to google the information. He can't now complain that it gave him something he didn't want.

And why was safesearch off on his glasses in the first place? Hmmmmm.

You mean you have safesearch on on your private PC?
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #247 on: 11 Jul 2013, 06:49 »

Whose idea was it to put image results on the main search page anyway? -_-
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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #248 on: 11 Jul 2013, 06:54 »

Do we even know if Momo considers herself female?

She certainly appears to in this strip

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Re: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013)
« Reply #249 on: 11 Jul 2013, 07:01 »

Microsoft with their latest operating system?

Either that or the glasses has it's own AI called Glasses and it likes to haze Dale.
Come to think of it, that can explain the incident in the alley and maybe a few others as well.

So another character may have been added to the cast.
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