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This Week ......

More Dale/Marigold awkwardness (with optional snogging)
Yenta Momo
Frazzled Dora (with optional silly grin)
Angus and Faye eating Cereal
Claire and Emily all week
PINTSIZE all week (with optional Yelling Bird)
Even more A-game
Clinton and Emily (with optional weirdness)
Pizza Girl at CoD being served by Penelope
Hannelore  (with optional squeeing and icking)
Cinnamon Lattes
Spathe Ham in Waffles
Friday the 13th references on Friday the 13th
A room full of Purple Monkey Dishwashers reading Hamlet

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Author Topic: WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread  (Read 28314 times)

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Marigold does not get to hold Momo's debt over her to make her do whatever Marigold wants and expect Momo to remain her friend.
Yes, moral blackmail is a line you don't step over. Marigold certainly deserves "the look" Momo gives her. I didn't think Momo slept though, so I guess this is the equivalent of a "time out".
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Oh good grief!!!!    ::)

I like Marigold, but some days I wanna slap her silly for things like this.

Hanners is gonna hit the roof over this.
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Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?

Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).
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yeah, i'm expecting hannelore to seriously but gently chew her out over this.
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She could even feasibly sell the chassis, which Marigold would STILL have to make payments on, out of an income that I don't know where the fuck it comes from already, Social Security???

Marigold works with computers. It may be that she works from home. Probably self employed. But we don't really know.
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I also think Wil's and Marigold's case are not really on the same scale. As I read the comic, for Wil and Sven it has been understood from the start that for bailing Sven out, Sven would owe Wil a favour (presumably in a girl related context also). Whereas Marigold bought Momo the chassis as a friend to make her happy (possibly with the understanding that Momo would try to pay back the monetary debt, but nothing else), so to expect other favours for it in retrospective seems pretty shitty. Although I bet this is one of the times where Marigold just needs to cool off for a minute before feeling horrible and stupid about her own behaviour. Again. I hope this helps her to avoid such behaviour in the future. I like Marigold, but it's sad how often her immaturity results in her hurting her friends and I don't even think she realises this.
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She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.
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Fucking hell, Marigold.

If you're THAT immature, you probably shouldn't be in a relationship.
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Marigold's poor social skills are irrelevant here.

Marigold is being a dick, but we all act like dicks when we're upset. Everyone says things they don't mean when they're frustrated, and real friendships survive this because feels are hurt, then repaired and transgressions forgiven.

Honestly, props to Jeph for showing his characters have shades of grey and can be imperfect, something that it's fair to say Jeph is quite good at in QC. People don't always get along. I have screaming arguments even with my closest friends and family.

Cool your beans, people, cool your beans.
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Schmorgluck

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I may be projecting a little, here, but it seems to me that Marigold has shown, on many occasions, signs of social anxiety disorders, and that right now she's on an anxiety-induced state of panic.
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Quote
Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?

Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).

Except she really isn't. The favors aren't on the same plane, but Momo's existence isn't tied to her chassis--Momo exists independently thereof. Marigold is clumsily and insincerely implying that Momo owes her her current physical interaction platform. Which is actually quite true, but the fact that Marigold is trying to use it as emotional blackmail is fucked up and hurtful--it's on the level of buying a friend a house and then pressuring them to do things for you because you bought them this nice house--but it isn't the same as claiming her as property.

She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.

Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.

This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.
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blacksinow

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I wouldn't excuse this kind of behavior from anyone in a real life situation, and I won't excuse it now. Whether or not Marigold has low social skills is very pointless, by excusing it we enable Marigold to do it again and again and more frequently. There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them." You don't coddle someone and say "There there, it's okay, you can be a dick all you want."
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bhtooefr

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This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

I'm actually not sure how all that would work.

There's a possibility that Momo's agreement to help pay Marigold back could be brought into court. It'd be weak, but she could be found partially liable for the costs of her chassis.
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Dr. ROFLPWN

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I wouldn't excuse this kind of behavior from anyone in a real life situation, and I won't excuse it now. Whether or not Marigold has low social skills is very pointless, by excusing it we enable Marigold to do it again and again and more frequently. There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them." You don't coddle someone and say "There there, it's okay, you can be a dick all you want."
There comes a point in time when things like this become unacceptable no matter the reason. Marigold has just entered that territory and has proven once again why I despise her with all my being. One day, Marigold's immature tantrums are going to cross that line that will inevitably force Momo to quit socializing with her. This sort of behavior is disgusting to a point that if Momo were human, it would be considered unacceptable and slavery at that.

1.) Moral stances work a lot better when you don't previously indicate you have a character assassination agenda. Just saying.
2.) I won't ask you to condone her behavior, but the slavery thing is pure hyperbole.

I'm actually not sure how all that would work.

There's a possibility that Momo's agreement to help pay Marigold back could be brought into court. It'd be weak, but she could be found partially liable for the costs of her chassis.


Yeah, but Marigold said it was a gift in the presence of the chassis sales rep, who could be relied upon as a witness for the defense. Also, Northampton seems to be pretty pro-AI politically--hell, the whole world does. The one time we hear about AI oppression in any form is a fundie talks bad about them one time. Once. It's never brought up again, and Momo certainly doesn't have to live in fear like Claire does to a degree because transphobia is real and can't be escaped from.
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Quote
Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?

Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).

Except she really isn't. The favors aren't on the same plane, but Momo's existence isn't tied to her chassis--Momo exists independently thereof. Marigold is clumsily and insincerely implying that Momo owes her her current physical interaction platform. Which is actually quite true, but the fact that Marigold is trying to use it as emotional blackmail is fucked up and hurtful--it's on the level of buying a friend a house and then pressuring them to do things for you because you bought them this nice house--but it isn't the same as claiming her as property.

IIRC, Momo got a job in order to pay Marigold back for the new chassis.  So yeah, she owes her, but in the same sense my mom owes the bank for her new car--financially.  Doesn't mean the bank president can call up my mom and pressure her to sort out his love life for her.
She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.

Quote
Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.

Uhm, I don't remember us meeting Marigold's father.  What strip was that?

Quote
This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

If her father cut ties, Marigold could presumably get another job.  Though of course, it's not guaranteed that she would find one, but how is that different from the situation of anyone else who works for a living?  Dora could fire Faye or any of her other employees at any time, Marten could get fired from the library, etc.

Quote
This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.

Would you want a friend to treat you the way Marigold just treated Momo?  Your existance presumably isn't dependent on your continued friendship;  you deal with your friends by choice, and could walk away at any time.  That's not to say that you can't forgive a friend for being a dick (if you want any friends, you better forgive theem, 'cause we're all dicks at some time), but it doesn't make it OK for them to be dickish towards you.
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blacksinow

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1. I have specific standards in place that I judge people by. So even if I didn't like them, I'd judge them on the same level as someone that I like, or even friends with for that matter.
2. If this were the nineteenth century and Marigold bought a slave their freedom, she'd still do it and that is what angers me. As awkward as Hannelore is, even socially, she would never do anything like this (which is why she's kind've a yard stick to me). If we go around saying "she has bad social skills and feels awkward around people", we may as well be saying that we'd have done it ourselves. You NEED to hold people accountable, no matter their behavior. If we lose that, then we lose the right to tell right from wrong.
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Thrillho

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You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.
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blacksinow

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You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.

On the contrary, if I did something in relation to what Marigold had attempted to pull, I'd EXPECT someone to hold me accountable. But then again, I'd have never made that mistake in the first place. The point of holding someone accountable is an indication that they were wrong and their actions can't be merely excused due to something such as their behavior. You CAN forgive them on the other hand and teach them why they were wrong, provided they want to learn... which is what bothers me about Marigold. I am not confident in her ability in understanding which is socially right or wrong.
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Dr. ROFLPWN

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This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"

If her father cut ties, Marigold could presumably get another job.  Though of course, it's not guaranteed that she would find one, but how is that different from the situation of anyone else who works for a living?  Dora could fire Faye or any of her other employees at any time, Marten could get fired from the library, etc.

The thing is that Marigold is (I presume/hypothesize) in a very vulnerable financial situation, much more so than any of her peers, thanks to her investment in Momo's chassis--a situation which could easily make her homeless and without support. Sure, she'd have Angus, but how long do you think he wants to take care of her? And how well do you really think she'd do finding a job, given her social skillset and the fact she works for her dad at the moment?

I will give you that her situation isn't that dissimilar...from the rest of QC's human cast. The AIs, on the other hand, can escape humans and our backwards society at any time, on a whim, and then re-enter it on another. Humans can't.

This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.

It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.

Would you want a friend to treat you the way Marigold just treated Momo?  Your existance presumably isn't dependent on your continued friendship;  you deal with your friends by choice, and could walk away at any time.  That's not to say that you can't forgive a friend for being a dick (if you want any friends, you better forgive theem, 'cause we're all dicks at some time), but it doesn't make it OK for them to be dickish towards you.

See earlier in the post where I note it's an entirely fucked up and hurtful thing for Marigold to do. That is absolutely true. HOWEVER, it doesn't have undertones of slavery, and I don't agree with the AI social issues gettin' real thing that seems to be an undertone here. It's my observation that robots/AIs are not a minority nor an oppressed class in the QC universe, and it's frankly silly to ask me to believe they are.
« Last Edit: 12 Dec 2013, 04:21 by Dr. ROFLPWN »
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GarandMarine

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You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.

GM just glass people when people do stupid things to hurt GM. GM finds empty pint glass effective cu...com... communication tool!
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You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives.


Interestingly enough, I can't actually remember doing so.  (I have definitely said things that I later regret, even not that much later, but I don't remember ever doing it out of anger specifically; it's either been fear or a misplaced sense of humor that usually gets me.)  I think this is probably a lot more common then most people suppose; I think a lot of what people think of as "doing something out of anger" is actually much closer to "doing something out of fear".


Heck, this even applies to Marigold here.  I would be hard-pressed to believe that she was actually angry at Momo; she's definitely panicking over her feelings regarding Dale, though, and that's an established reason both for people in general and for her specifically to start acting immaturely.
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bhtooefr

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And I didn't say that I didn't have my own moments of immaturity.

Just that that level of immaturity doesn't bode well for a relationship.
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She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.

Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.
Wait, isn't the only time MariDad has been in the comic when he was angry about Steampunk? I don't think it's fair to judge him as capricious and violent tempered over that. It's a perfectly sensible reaction to most steampunkery-related shenanigans.
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Wait, isn't the only time MariDad has been in the comic when he was angry about Steampunk? I don't think it's fair to judge him as capricious and violent tempered over that. It's a perfectly sensible reaction to most steampunkery-related shenanigans.


He was "present" over the phone during the arc when Hannelore and Marigold were in the same house for the night and Hanners caught Mar-Bear red-handed playing with her DS (or the equivalent).  I think that was the first time he actually appeared, to any extent, in the comic, although Marigold had mentioned him before that regarding "pay[ing] taxes and everything!"
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just glue some gears on it and call it steampunk...

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Just that that level of immaturity doesn't bode well for a relationship.


I would agree, but I would also add that she cannot possibly get any better at relationships then she is at the moment without practice.  Even Hanners recognized this, although her motivations for the "date" with Sven were slightly different.  :)
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Thrillho

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You guys are really acting like you're all saints who've never said something you regret out of anger in your entire lives. Glad I associate with such clean-cut people.

On the contrary, if I did something in relation to what Marigold had attempted to pull, I'd EXPECT someone to hold me accountable. But then again, I'd have never made that mistake in the first place. The point of holding someone accountable is an indication that they were wrong and their actions can't be merely excused due to something such as their behavior. You CAN forgive them on the other hand and teach them why they were wrong, provided they want to learn... which is what bothers me about Marigold. I am not confident in her ability in understanding which is socially right or wrong.

I'm not saying not to hold her accountable, or that she is in the right, or to excuse the behaviour. I am just saying I'd forgive my friends for such things once they apologised, which Marigold will obviously do.

Interestingly enough, I can't actually remember doing so.  (I have definitely said things that I later regret, even not that much later, but I don't remember ever doing it out of anger specifically; it's either been fear or a misplaced sense of humor that usually gets me.)  I think this is probably a lot more common then most people suppose; I think a lot of what people think of as "doing something out of anger" is actually much closer to "doing something out of fear".


Heck, this even applies to Marigold here.  I would be hard-pressed to believe that she was actually angry at Momo; she's definitely panicking over her feelings regarding Dale, though, and that's an established reason both for people in general and for her specifically to start acting immaturely.

Exactly. Anger is not the only reason we would say something we regret, and I'm not saying to just let it slide.
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Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)

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Wait, isn't the only time MariDad has been in the comic when he was angry about Steampunk? I don't think it's fair to judge him as capricious and violent tempered over that. It's a perfectly sensible reaction to most steampunkery-related shenanigans.


He was "present" over the phone during the arc when Hannelore and Marigold were in the same house for the night and Hanners caught Mar-Bear red-handed playing with her DS (or the equivalent).  I think that was the first time he actually appeared, to any extent, in the comic, although Marigold had mentioned him before that regarding "pay[ing] taxes and everything!"

That scene did certainly not paint him as some violently aggressive person. And judging from Marigold's reaction to him when he came shouting about steampunk, he does not frighten her, which he would have if he had ever been violent with her. Anyway, let's keep in mind that he has currently only been used as a supporting figure, and might not be a fully fleshed-out character in Jeph's mind.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to become violently aggressive.

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Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)


But that would mean that they would regularly take severe damage from their own misplaced attacks … actually, never mind, that makes a disturbing amount of sense.   :-\
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Marigold might have been raised Catholic, as that is some serious application of guilt.

(Catholic, so not only quite skillful at using guilt, but also takes critical hits from guilt-element attacks!)
So then Catholics are like dragons in Pokemon:psyduck:
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Schmorgluck

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There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them."
I don't know what you do for a living, but please, please tell me it's nothing that involves handling people with mental conditions.
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“Oh yes, it hurts at times to be alone among the stars. But it hurts a lot more to be alone at a party. A lot more.” - George R. R. Martin

KOK

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I do not have the impression that Marigold's father is her only customer. When she buys Momo's new chassis. she says "I can afford it. I'll just eat ramen for a while." So she does have room for extravagant purchases in her budget. Not likely if she was in effect living on handouts.
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Barmymoo

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I'm pretty sure that Marigold is employed by her dad in the same way that my stepmum is employed by mine: legally, as an employee of the company he owns. In which case, he couldn't just stop "giving out handouts" (aka "paying her wages") because she has an employment contract and could sue him for unfair dismissal. But why would he? How is she any more vulnerable than anyone else? Anyone's job can be terminated if a company folds or they fall out with management.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

judemorrigan

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There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them."
I don't know what you do for a living, but please, please tell me it's nothing that involves handling people with mental conditions.
Is there any reason to believe that Marigold has a mental condition?
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jwhouk

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Uhm, I don't remember us meeting Marigold's father.  What strip was that?

STEAMPUNK. EXPLAIN IT.
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Is there any reason to believe that Marigold has a mental condition?


Yes!  There is massive reason to believe it, for similar reasons to why I'm actually diagnosed with a mental condition.  No, I'm not insane, and neither is Marigold, but she's (and I'm) also definitely not acting normally.  Granted, our respective disorders are wildly different in symptomology, but that should only serve to underscore the fact the people can have all sorts of neuro- and/or psychological abnormalities.  I (unfortunately) don't have any kind of reasonable access to the DSM-V, but I'm absolutely certain that Marigold has some kind of diagnosable pathology, just Hannelore and Faye do (and probably Pintsize as well, as far as human-based disorders can extend into AIs).
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judemorrigan

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Meh, she's awkward and socially maladjusted sure.  Therapy probably wouldn't hurt.  I'm less convinced that it would be properly described as a pathology and even less convinced that excusing poor behavior on her part as a result of that maladjustment would be doing her any favors.  Sometimes calling people on their crap *is* the appropriate thing for friends to do.
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Shjade

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It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence.

No. She's telling Momo she owes her for the equivalent of plastic surgery. She bought her a new body, not a new life. Let's keep this in perspective, shall we?

And yes, this was a pretty shitty way for Marigold to act, but to be honest it could've been worse. "You owe me" isn't the same as "I own you." She's just not thinking about other people, again, or about the implications/consequences of what she's saying to them. Again.

Marigold's terrible at dealing with or thinking about other people. In other news, the sky is blue.
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blacksinow

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Meh, she's awkward and socially maladjusted sure.  Therapy probably wouldn't hurt.  I'm less convinced that it would be properly described as a pathology and even less convinced that excusing poor behavior on her part as a result of that maladjustment would be doing her any favors.  Sometimes calling people on their crap *is* the appropriate thing for friends to do.

This. This is exactly what I've been saying.
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PthariensFlame

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Marigold's terrible at dealing with or thinking about other people. In other news, the sky is blue.


And it's the fact that people actually expect her to behave that way that, at this point, makes me think it's truly pathological.
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Schmorgluck

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Is there any reason to believe that Marigold has a mental condition?
Here's a list of questions about Marigold:
  • Has Marigold shown a marked or persistent fear of one or more social situations wherein there is exposure to unfamiliar people or possible scrutiny by others?
  • Has Marigold's core fears shown as centered on behaving in a way that would be humiliating or embarrassing?
  • Did Marigold's exposure to these phobic situations consistently evokes an anxiety response, which in some cases may be in the form of a panic attack?
  • Has Marigold shown some insight that the fear is excessive or unreasonable?
  • Did Marigold show a tendancy to avoid said phobic situations or, when forced to attend them, show significant anxiety or distress?
  • Did Marigold seem to suffer from significant social impairment from that, and/or has shown marked distress about that?
  • Do we know of a substance Marigold might be taking, or another issue she might have, that could explain her behaviour?
  • Can we clearly trace other Marigold's issues (like the signs she's shown of clinical depression) as being caused by the above, as opposed to the other way around?

I leave it to you to consider all these questions. They are not random, at all.
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“Oh yes, it hurts at times to be alone among the stars. But it hurts a lot more to be alone at a party. A lot more.” - George R. R. Martin

judemorrigan

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Oh, believe you me.  I'm well aware of how not-random those questions are.  The only reason I've never been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder is that I've never sought a diagnosis out.  And fair enough, I suppose.  But I still don't think it's a reason to not call her out on bad behavior.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone tell her she's a bad person who's bad.  But the fundamental message behind blacksisnow's suggetion is sound, even if it could be phrased rather more gently.  (ie, something rather more along the lines of, "Marigold.  We're your friends.  We care about you.  But you're acting terribly.  You're going to seriously damage your relationships if you keep it up."  And then offer what help one can, but not by enabling the bad behavior.)
« Last Edit: 12 Dec 2013, 10:34 by judemorrigan »
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NotAwesomeAnymore

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When people suggest Marigold has a mental disorder, do they mean she has something that needs to be treated with drugs? Because I suppose you could diagnose her and put her under a label. But I have a feeling she had bad social experiences when she was younger, and is naturally somewhat introverted -- and now she has some issues which could be resolved with a combination of therapy (to unpack the bad social experiences from when she was younger) and some good social experiences. I don't think there's an inherent chemical imbalance there.
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Jazzmaster

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It's like Faye and Marigold are competing this week to see which one gets to be my least favorite character.

"Two girls enter, one girl leaves!"

Nice.  Glad I'm not the only one who was particularly turned off by Faye's snark this week, especially about 2 strips or so ago.  "Fuckin' nerd", really?  People still talk like this?

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PthariensFlame

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When people suggest Marigold has a mental disorder, do they mean she has something that needs to be treated with drugs?

At least from my perspective, no.  (I need them, but I'm aware that disorders with that level of severity are pretty rare.)


Because I suppose you could diagnose her and put her under a label. But I have a feeling she had bad social experiences when she was younger, and is naturally somewhat introverted -- and now she has some issues which could be resolved with a combination of therapy (to unpack the bad social experiences from when she was younger) and some good social experiences. I don't think there's an inherent chemical imbalance there.

Leaving completely aside the issue of whether or not every psych disorder is chemically based, I think perhaps "labeling" her might actually help her to overcome it.  I'm not sure, as I don't remember a time when I wasn't aware of some sort or other of psychiatric diagnosis that had been placed on me, so her response might be different, but I don't think so.  I think she would take comfort in the fact that her problems are actually not unknown.  It has nothing to do with assigning blame (I see way too many people here worried about whether or not her actions are "her fault") but a lot to do with how she perceives the relative level of uniqueness of her issues.  Yes, she still has to solve them, but knowing that they must be solvable because others before her have managed it might actually propel her quite a ways along the path to resolution.
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Thrudd

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  "Fuckin' nerd", really?  People still talk like this?
Unfortunately yes, yes they do.
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Is it cold in here?

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Marigold does not get to hold Momo's debt over her to make her do whatever Marigold wants and expect Momo to remain her friend.
Yes, moral blackmail is a line you don't step over. Marigold certainly deserves "the look" Momo gives her. I didn't think Momo slept though, so I guess this is the equivalent of a "time out".

Momo said she didn't need to sleep when she first talked about getting a job. On the other hand she has since talked about being able to sleep sitting up so that she doesn't require the couch to sleep on, and Jeph said something in a Q&A about all sentients needing sleep.

Jeph said Momo's difficulty finding a job was due to fictional Northampton's lousy job market. Marigold has a lot more marketable experience than Momo and can work remotely, but she still might have trouble finding a new position.
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marsman57

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To start, let me note that I really don't like Marigold. She is boring, uninteresting, dramatic, insecure, and immature. She is exactly the type of person that I would likely know in real life through my nerdy social circles, would have as a friend on Facebook, but I would have absolutely no desire to go out of my way to see her despite feeling no ill will. I feel a bit more ill will toward her than I would her real life counterpart though because she is constantly thrown in my face and I can't escape her drama without discontinuing reading the strip. :)

That being said, I think she is being a bit harshly criticized here. When challenged and desperate, we as humans often lord over how good we have been to the other person. The prevailing opinion in the QC-niverse is that AI and human are equal, and therefore it can be argued that she is treating Momo in a very human way. Sure it is a bit crappy, but it is definitely not a master/slave relationship. She says, "you owe me" not "I own you". In fact, Momo is being a bit immature by running to her friend to stew rather than facing the situation there. Of course, that is just the part of me speaking that hates leaving stuff unresolved.

Also, I'll be flamed for this, but I really don't like how Jeph has slowly retconned the AI position in society and relation to the characters. Mainly creepy is the fact that some others have noted that AI really has the upper hand. It is like they have won the war without fighting it and humans are just left to think they are free. Of course, we only have a very limited view into the whole dynamic, so there may be more complicated layers than we are seeing. I mainly just don't like that we have gone from Momo calling Marigold her owner to a situation where she holds all the power in the relationship without any real "on-screen" development to show that change.
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