Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 27 Feb 2020, 19:29
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

What music should Dora put on for the inevitable bloody reckoning that is to come?

Something up beat and poppy! You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter" after all!
- 12 (18.5%)
Slayer. Why is this even a question?
- 28 (43.1%)
New Age Spathe Ham Electronica
- 4 (6.2%)
Dubstep, Drop the bass and dropkick someone's soul.
- 8 (12.3%)
I would tell you what band I'd go on a rampage to, but you'd have never heard of them. Pleb.
- 8 (12.3%)
Dora should just calm down and visualize whirled peas till she feels better.
- 5 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 65

Voting closed: 30 Aug 2014, 02:49


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2776-2780 (25-29 August 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 32130 times)

plusorminus

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110

"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.

So I guess you didn't see the strip where he found out about Dora and Tai?

Can you honestly tell me he was overjoyed at that revelation?

Well, no, he wasn't, because possibly he was hoping for more, especially since Sam had taken a shine to Faye and was spending more time at CoD. Also, it probably had to hurt that she wasn't ready for something when he asked her but she had sufficiently healed at that point to be with someone.
 
But that's sort of a moot point now. Jim seems resilient. He and Veronica are well suited. He ain't thinking about Dora now and probably hasn't for a long time.
Logged

Mafarfloune

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22

The person you are interested in having a significant other IS a good reason not to pursue them unless you know they are polyamorous. It is disrespectful to the feelings of the person you're pursuing. You are effectively saying you don't respect their feelings for their partner and are only interested in your own wants.

I disagree. Sven just let her know where he stands. He didn't insist (yet) once she said no. There's no disrespect to the feelings there. Now if he keeps going at it over and over again, then you could claim disrespect, but until that moment happens, Sven will actually BE respecting Faye's feelings/wishes.


Quote
Plus Sven is being hypocritical since he has stated outright that he doesn't intentionally pursue women who are already involved.

Again, context. Those were for one night stands or uninvolved relationships. When it comes to the woman you'd really want to have a serious relationship with, the rules may change.
Logged

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

The person you are interested in having a significant other IS a good reason not to pursue them unless you know they are polyamorous. It is disrespectful to the feelings of the person you're pursuing. You are effectively saying you don't respect their feelings for their partner and are only interested in your own wants.

Plus Sven is being hypocritical since he has stated outright that he doesn't intentionally pursue women who are already involved.

Yeah, yeah.. Sven can never do right.  :roll:
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

If Marten would simply get Pintsize's personality reformatted they wouldn't have problems with him incoveniencing them with his perverted antics.

He won't do it, and rightfully so : If I am not mistaken, robots, in the QC verse, have rights similar to humans. Sending pintsize to be formatted would be the equivalent of sending people to reformation camps or any other brain-washing organization.

They're ROBOTS. Nonliving pieces of inorganic machinery designed and built by humans. They're essentially nothing more than appliances. Property for humans to do with as they will. The notion that robots deserve any sort of "civil rights" is patently absurd.
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.

So I guess you didn't see the strip where he found out about Dora and Tai?

Can you honestly tell me he was overjoyed at that revelation?

Well, no, he wasn't, because possibly he was hoping for more, especially since Sam had taken a shine to Faye and was spending more time at CoD. Also, it probably had to hurt that she wasn't ready for something when he asked her but she had sufficiently healed at that point to be with someone.
 
But that's sort of a moot point now. Jim seems resilient. He and Veronica are well suited. He ain't thinking about Dora now and probably hasn't for a long time.

That doesn't let Dora off the hook for what she did when she did it. She broke his heart. After all, no one is letting Sven off the hook, why should Dora be given a free pass?
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

Quote from: sitnspin link=topic=30064.msg1262054#msg1262054
date=1409024800
"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.

So I guess you didn't see the strip where he found out about Dora and Tai?

Can you honestly tell me he was overjoyed at that revelation?

Oh boo hoo. The person I went on one date with months ago is dating someone. What kind of screwed up entitled worldview does it take to have that in anyway be her fault?
Logged
@syleegrrl

T

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 339

If Marten would simply get Pintsize's personality reformatted they wouldn't have problems with him incoveniencing them with his perverted antics.

He won't do it, and rightfully so : If I am not mistaken, robots, in the QC verse, have rights similar to humans. Sending pintsize to be formatted would be the equivalent of sending people to reformation camps or any other brain-washing organization.

They're ROBOTS. Nonliving pieces of inorganic machinery designed and built by humans. They're essentially nothing more than appliances. Property for humans to do with as they will. The notion that robots deserve any sort of "civil rights" is patently absurd.

Not in the QC universe.

Also the "They're essentially nothing more than appliances. Property for humans to do with as they will." Is how slaves were classified.
Logged

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

Quote from: sitnspin link=topic=30064.msg1262054#msg1262054
date=1409024800
"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.

So I guess you didn't see the strip where he found out about Dora and Tai?

Can you honestly tell me he was overjoyed at that revelation?

Oh boo hoo. The person I went on one date with months ago is dating someone. What kind of screwed up entitled worldview does it take to have that in anyway be her fault?

Yes yes, we get it. Dora can never do wrong in your eyes.
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

Mafarfloune

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22


They're ROBOTS. Nonliving pieces of inorganic machinery designed and built by humans. They're essentially nothing more than appliances. Property for humans to do with as they will. The notion that robots deserve any sort of "civil rights" is patently absurd.

So what? In the QC-verse, scientists have succeeded in giving AI a intelligence/consciousness equivalent to humans, thus giving robots (meeting that human-AI criteria) rights. That's why they have robot prisons, for instance. And no, the idea of giving civil rights to such robots is far from absurd, and could be debated in many philosophical ethics books/researches/thesis.
Logged

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

Quote from: sitnspin link=topic=30064.msg1262054#msg1262054
date=1409024800
"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.

So I guess you didn't see the strip where he found out about Dora and Tai?

Can you honestly tell me he was overjoyed at that revelation?

Oh boo hoo. The person I went on one date with months ago is dating someone. What kind of screwed up entitled worldview does it take to have that in anyway be her fault?

Yes yes, we get it. Dora can never do wrong in your eyes.

Nice straw man argument. Dora has done plenty wrong. Breaking Jim's heart is not among them. I am curious as to what mindset could interpret otherwise.
Logged
@syleegrrl

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

Not in the QC universe.

Perhaps not. But it's still retarded.

Quote
Also the "They're essentially nothing more than appliances. Property for humans to do with as they will." Is how slaves were classified.

I don't see the two situations as being the least bit similar.

The difference is human slaves are living, organic creatures. Just because something is wrong in one situation, doesn't mean it's unilaterally wrong in ALL of them. Otherwise it's just as wrong to use a moving van carry your stuff across a distance as forcing a person to carry everything by foot.

Or do you actually pay your washing machine?
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

Nice straw man argument. Dora has done plenty wrong. Breaking Jim's heart is not among them. I am curious as to what mindset could interpret otherwise.

No, Im actually right on the money.

And yes, breaking Jim'sa heart IS amoung them.

Excuse me for actually having empathy for the guiy.
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

Not in the QC universe.

Perhaps not. But it's still retarded.

Quote
Also the "They're essentially nothing more than appliances. Property for humans to do with as they will." Is how slaves were classified.

I don't see the two situations as being the least bit similar.

The difference is human slaves are living, organic creatures. Just because something is wrong in one situation, doesn't mean it's unilaterally wrong in ALL of them. Otherwise it's just as wrong to use a moving van carry your stuff across a distance as forcing a person to carry everything by foot.

Or do you actually pay your washing machine?

If my washing machine was a sapient being, I would. I fail to see how being "organic" has anything to do with. Human (and other bilogocical organisms) bodies are machines as well, just built out of different materials through a different process.
Logged
@syleegrrl

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

Nice straw man argument. Dora has done plenty wrong. Breaking Jim's heart is not among them. I am curious as to what mindset could interpret otherwise.

No, Im actually right on the money.

And yes, breaking Jim'sa heart IS amoung them.

Excuse me for actually having empathy for the guiy.
In what way are you "right on the money"?

Yes, we get it, any time a woman doesn't continue to go out with a guy after the first date, she's a heartbreaker.

I can do straw man arguments, too
Logged
@syleegrrl

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

I am not a fan of this current arc. It really seems as though the plot is being forced into a direction as opposed to organically building there. Plot driven, as opposed to character driven.

In my opinion, Sven and Dora are not acting in character. Sven was presented as much more socially savvy than he has been recently. Dora was presented as someone who is overprotective of her friends, but who also loves her brother. Arguing that there are thingswe haven't seen motivating this decision.. no. This is a story telling format. Assumedly any plot development big enough to trigger this reaction from Dora would have been shown. If it was something from Dora's past... maybe, but nothing has been hinted at, as opposed to Faye witnessing her fathers suicide, which was heavily foreshadowed.

This is the second time during this arc that I have been jolted out of the overall story because characters are acting so out of their norm. I think Jeph is forcing the plot in a specific direction in order to make some sort of overall point, and I'm curious as to what that point is, but I really don't think he is planning his arc very well.
Logged

Mafarfloune

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22


The difference is human slaves are living, organic creatures. Just because something is wrong in one situation, doesn't mean it's unilaterally wrong in ALL of them. Otherwise it's just as wrong to use a moving van carry your stuff across a distance as forcing a person to carry everything by foot.

Humans are organic, intelligent, reasoning, living creatures.
Robots (in QC) are inorganic, intelligent, reasoning, living creatures.

Are humans defined only by the fact that they're organic? In fact, what is humanity? Is it bound to the body of the homo genus, or is it something more abstract? If another species evolves so that they think, act, live, reason, love like humans do, would we say they have humanity? What if that species were robots? What if the robot was made of organic parts, and those parts were assembled by humans?

Logged

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

Nice straw man argument. Dora has done plenty wrong. Breaking Jim's heart is not among them. I am curious as to what mindset could interpret otherwise.

No, Im actually right on the money.

And yes, breaking Jim'sa heart IS amoung them.

Excuse me for actually having empathy for the guiy.
In what way are you "right on the money"?

Yes, we get it, any time a woman doesn't continue to go out with a guy after the first date, she's a heartbreaker.

I can do straw man arguments, too

In order for there to be a "too", I would have to be doing straw man argument myself. And I'm not. My reasons are valid, yours isn't.

Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

I disagree, at least when it comes to Dora acting out of character. Tension with her brother has been there for years. Her relationship with and to him have been a major source of emotional turmoil for her her whole life. That she might decide it would be healthy to distance herself from him seems a natural progression of that. Whether or not it is a good choice, it is one that follows from the preceding event.
Logged
@syleegrrl

Fenriswolf

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 322

This person has to be a troll. If not, they're so asinine as to be indistinguishable so I would vote for ignoring, for what it's worth.
Logged

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow


The difference is human slaves are living, organic creatures. Just because something is wrong in one situation, doesn't mean it's unilaterally wrong in ALL of them. Otherwise it's just as wrong to use a moving van carry your stuff across a distance as forcing a person to carry everything by foot.

Humans are organic, intelligent, reasoning, living creatures.
Robots (in QC) are inorganic, intelligent, reasoning, living creatures.

Are humans defined only by the fact that they're organic? In fact, what is humanity? Is it bound to the body of the homo genus, or is it something more abstract? If another species evolves so that they think, act, live, reason, love like humans do, would we say they have humanity? What if that species were robots? What if the robot was made of organic parts, and those parts were assembled by humans?

Oh for God's sake. Assuming mention of him is allowed in here.

Robots are not people. People deserve inalienable rights. Robots do not. Has political correctness disabled ALL rationality these days?
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

Yes yes, we get it. Dora can never do wrong in your eyes.

This is a straw man. I never argued this point. Just I never argued the point that Sven can do no right.
Logged
@syleegrrl

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307


The difference is human slaves are living, organic creatures. Just because something is wrong in one situation, doesn't mean it's unilaterally wrong in ALL of them. Otherwise it's just as wrong to use a moving van carry your stuff across a distance as forcing a person to carry everything by foot.

Humans are organic, intelligent, reasoning, living creatures.
Robots (in QC) are inorganic, intelligent, reasoning, living creatures.

Are humans defined only by the fact that they're organic? In fact, what is humanity? Is it bound to the body of the homo genus, or is it something more abstract? If another species evolves so that they think, act, live, reason, love like humans do, would we say they have humanity? What if that species were robots? What if the robot was made of organic parts, and those parts were assembled by humans?

Oh for God's sake. Assuming mention of him is allowed in here.

Robots are not people. People deserve inalienable rights. Robots do not. Has political correctness disabled ALL rationality these days?

Do you actually have an argument beyond "just because"?
Logged
@syleegrrl

Valeyard

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Member of the House of Shadow

This person has to be a troll. If not, they're so asinine as to be indistinguishable so I would vote for ignoring, for what it's worth.

Ah. I get it. Having a view that doesn't agree with the majority is trolling now.

I guess the "tolerance" mantra only applies to those who agree with you. Typical.
Logged
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

This person has to be a troll. If not, they're so asinine as to be indistinguishable so I would vote for ignoring, for what it's worth.

Ah. I get it. Having a view that doesn't agree with the majority is trolling now.

I guess the "tolerance" mantra only applies to those who agree with you. Typical.
It would help if you presented a reasoned argument.
Logged
@syleegrrl

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

I disagree, at least when it comes to Dora acting out of character. Tension with her brother has been there for years. Her relationship with and to him have been a major source of emotional turmoil for her her whole life. That she might decide it would be healthy to distance herself from him seems a natural progression of that. Whether or not it is a good choice, it is one that follows from the preceding event.

I just don't read Dora as being someone who would opt to cut someone from her life. I would expect her to confront Sven, then, if that confrontation went badly, decide to cut him out of her life. Just jumping from "my brother did something slightly assholeish!" to "toxic person, out of my life." does not fit with how I've read Dora in the past.

To make this snap decision, of this magnitude, does not seem in charcter for Dora. Sure, she has had snap reactions in the past, but they were over relatively minor things from her perspective (A girl flirted with Marten! or I'll just look at Marten's porn, it's not a big deal) She didn't forsee that her actions would have consequences of magnitude. But when she broke up with Marten she did it with forethought. I see cutting someone out of your life on a magnitude above breaking up with someone. I don't think Dora would put less thought into cutting Sven out of her life than she would put into breaking up with Marten.
Logged

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,258
  • You're not the only one, no.

In order for there to be a "too", I would have to be doing straw man argument myself. And I'm not. My reasons are valid, yours isn't.

I don't necessarily have any problem with the position you are advocating, but if you want to be taken seriously, you really will have to open yourself up to considering other people's points of view, rather than simply dismissing them as stupid or invalid without any further consideration. Deliberate misrepresentation of people's views, such as "Yes yes, we get it. Dora can never do wrong in your eyes," will not do you any favors. You should address their arguments, rather than jump to conclusions about what is behind them.

No-one is perfect, and that applies double in the QC world. Everyone in this comic has their troubles, and I can assure that pretty much everyone here would be aware of that. That includes Dora and Sven both.

I am not so sure that I would apply the word 'toxic' to Sven, it seems a little strong. But I can see why Dora might. Obviously their relationship is somewhat toxic, as I mentioned earlier, and neither is entirely blameless. Apportion blame as you will. Also, whether distancing herself from him is the right move, I don't know. Maybe it is, at least for the time being. As someone else said, it's probably a better option than her bludgeoning him with a baseball bat.

FWIW, I don't hate Sven, but he has a few lessons to learn.

Edit: I forgot to mention that there are a couple of things I do disagree with. I don't think that "breaking Jim's heart" (whether she really did or not) makes Dora a terrible person. A first date does not oblige anyone to follow up with a relationship. Also, there was a throw-away line along the lines of  "Marten is now forever alone." Really? A little dramatic, don't you think? Marten will find someone else, in his own time. If he doesn't, that's not Dora's fault.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2014, 23:40 by Tova »
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

I disagree, at least when it comes to Dora acting out of character. Tension with her brother has been there for years. Her relationship with and to him have been a major source of emotional turmoil for her her whole life. That she might decide it would be healthy to distance herself from him seems a natural progression of that. Whether or not it is a good choice, it is one that follows from the preceding event.

I just don't read Dora as being someone who would opt to cut someone from her life. I would expect her to confront Sven, then, if that confrontation went badly, decide to cut him out of her life. Just jumping from "my brother did something slightly assholeish!" to "toxic person, out of my life." does not fit with how I've read Dora in the past.

To make this snap decision, of this magnitude, does not seem in charcter for Dora. Sure, she has had snap reactions in the past, but they were over relatively minor things from her perspective (A girl flirted with Marten! or I'll just look at Marten's porn, it's not a big deal) She didn't forsee that her actions would have consequences of magnitude. But when she broke up with Marten she did it with forethought. I see cutting someone out of your life on a magnitude above breaking up with someone. I don't think Dora would put less thought into cutting Sven out of her life than she would put into breaking up with Marten.
Again, her decision is not a reaction to this singular event, it is a culmination of everything leading up to this point. The back breaking straw, as it were.
Logged
@syleegrrl

KOK

  • Higher than Ol' Scratch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 672
  • We are many who are few

The person you are interested in having a significant other IS a good reason not to pursue them unless you know they are polyamorous. It is disrespectful to the feelings of the person you're pursuing. You are effectively saying you don't respect their feelings for their partner and are only interested in your own wants.

Plus Sven is being hypocritical since he has stated outright that he doesn't intentionally pursue women who are already involved.

It is not hypocritical. We have no reason to doubt that he was telling the truth when he said that. It is going against his principles as he previously stated them, but he is openly admitting that he is a changed man.
Logged
Quote from: Marten
You're cute when you're reasonable.

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

Again, her decision is not a reaction to this singular event, it is a culmination of everything leading up to this point. The back breaking straw, as it were.
I understand why some people might see it that way. I don't.

Dora and Sven haven't really been hanging out much or involved in each others lives since she moved out of his apartment. (I am basing this on the idea that something not shown in comic is not plot relevant) There has been no foreshadowing, no discussions involving her brother, not really anything, except that date he took Hanners on wayyy back (which might have been pre-Dora Marten breakup, I don't remember and I am not looking it up right now)

Clearly a person can cut someone out of their life at any time, for any reason, etc. But this is a story being told to us, not real life. For me, Dora's decision lacks the requisite buildup that you would see for a "last straw" moment.

[Edited to insert relevant quote that I am replying to]
Logged

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307


Plus Sven is being hypocritical since he has stated outright that he doesn't intentionally pursue women who are already involved.

It is not hypocritical. We have no reason to doubt that he was telling the truth when he said that. It is going against his principles as he previously stated them, but he is openly admitting that he is a changed man.

Fair enough. Not exactly a positive change in this instance. I've always been a relatively strong supporter of Sven up until this current arc.
Logged
@syleegrrl

creatureshock

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

The case against Sven.

And now Dora is trying to avoid the ass kicking that Faye will give her. 
Logged

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,258
  • You're not the only one, no.

Clearly a person can cut someone out of their life at any time, for any reason, etc. But this is a story being told to us, not real life. For me, Dora's decision lacks the requisite buildup that you would see for a "last straw" moment.

Given that Dora's attitude towards her brother has been much the same throughout the comic as far as I can recall, we can only assume that there is a lot of history that we are unaware of. Or you could assume that there is none, and that Dora is simply a terrible person. Depending on which person you personally prefer to hate.  :-D

The case against Sven.

And now Dora is trying to avoid the ass kicking that Faye will give her. 

Yes, probably!
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

The case against Sven.

And now Dora is trying to avoid the ass kicking that Faye will give her.
What has she done in this case that warrants a beat down? She hasn't done anything to Faye.
Logged
@syleegrrl

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

Personally I don't hate either of them. Dora and Sven, along with Tai, have been the characters I identify with most in the comic, each for different reasons.

I'm not arguing that Sven is awful or toxic in general, just that I can understand Dora doing this if the relationship between them is detrimental to her growth and recovery, which it seems to be. This is not to say that is completely his fault, it just is a description of the current state of things.
Logged
@syleegrrl

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20,369
  • He/him/his pronouns

Has political correctness disabled ALL rationality these days?

Global Moderator Comment For the benefit of the many new people joining us, be advised that accusing other members of irrationality is not the way we do things here.
Logged
"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

creatureshock

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

The person you are interested in having a significant other IS a good reason not to pursue them unless you know they are polyamorous. It is disrespectful to the feelings of the person you're pursuing. You are effectively saying you don't respect their feelings for their partner and are only interested in your own wants.

Plus Sven is being hypocritical since he has stated outright that he doesn't intentionally pursue women who are already involved.

And Dora all but went after Marten while he was after Faye.  I honestly think she is just as guilty of major relationship BS as Sven.  Someone pointed out earlier that Dora has more in common with Sven then she wants to admit, and I think that truer words haven't been spoken on this forum.
Logged

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,258
  • You're not the only one, no.

What has she done in this case that warrants a beat down? She hasn't done anything to Faye.

Only because Faye will think that Dora is making a bad decision.
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

What has she done in this case that warrants a beat down? She hasn't done anything to Faye.

Idk, I could see Faye beating up Dora for bringing more stress into Faye's life at what is already a stressful time.

Given that Dora's attitude towards her brother has been much the same throughout the comic as far as I can recall, we can only assume that there is a lot of history that we are unaware of. Or you could assume that there is none, and that Dora is simply a terrible person. Depending on which person you personally prefer to hate.  :-D

Again, if there is some history we are unaware of (the comic has gone into Dora and Sven's childhoods possibly more than any other characters except Hanners) Then this is just bad story telling. For something to suddenly be presented now, with no foreshadowing, is sloppy.

I don't think Jeph writes anyone to be a "terrible person". Prior to this arc he has been masterful at writing evolving characters who make mistakes and then grow. I can see Dora deciding to cut Sven out of her life and then being talked out of her decision by Sven/her therapist/Marten as a plot possibility. What is ruining it for me is that it follows so closely on the heels of Sven acting out of character.
Logged

creatureshock

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

The case against Sven.

And now Dora is trying to avoid the ass kicking that Faye will give her.
What has she done in this case that warrants a beat down? She hasn't done anything to Faye.

She is using Faye and Sven's situation, which Faye nor Sven have said word one to Dora about, to cut Sven off.  Faye might be an ass to people, but she applies it evenly.  Everyone gets shit.  And once Faye finds this out she is probably going to go thermal on Dora.  Faye already threatened to kick the shit out of Dora once, and I can see this bring the breaking point for Faye. 

And as an aside, Marten needs to stop being an emotional tampon for the women in his life.
Logged

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

What has she done in this case that warrants a beat down? She hasn't done anything to Faye.

Idk, I could see Faye beating up Dora for bringing more stress into Faye's life at what is already a stressful time.

How is she adding more stress to Faye's life? How does cutting off Sven affect Faye?
Logged
@syleegrrl

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

How does Sven confessing he loves Faye affect Dora?
Logged

Roboduck

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4

Quote
Sven was presented as much more socially savvy than he has been recently.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only bit of social savvyness I remember Sven ever showing was on his pretend-date with Hanners, where he where he talks about taking girls into places she wouldn't usually go to impress her. That's not exactly Machiavelli; I'd easily believe he picked that up from a romantic comedy too.
Logged

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

How does Sven confessing he loves Faye affect Dora?
Directly? Not at all. One could argue it is just another example of the type of behavior from him she doesn't want in her life anymore. As I said before, her decision is not based on this situation alone
Logged
@syleegrrl

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

In the same sense, Dora cutting Sven out of her life will affect Faye. Indirectly. Faye will have to deal with the fallout that is inevitable when someone publicly cuts another out of their life. She will probably have to spend time comforting Dora, maybe talk with Sven, etc. It adds another layer to every interaction, more energy that will need to be spent on this.
Logged

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20,369
  • He/him/his pronouns

I don't think Jeph writes anyone to be a "terrible person".

There was Vespavenger, but your point is well taken. Somewhere in a long-ago Q&A Jeph said he's never written an argument where one party was completely right.
Logged
"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

sitnspin

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,307

In the same sense, Dora cutting Sven out of her life will affect Faye. Indirectly. Faye will have to deal with the fallout that is inevitable when someone publicly cuts another out of their life. She will probably have to spend time comforting Dora, maybe talk with Sven, etc. It adds another layer to every interaction, more energy that will need to be spent on this.
Faye has no obligation to talk to Sven about anything. They are not together, they are not even friends. She might possibly have to comfort Dora a bit, but I don't see that as an inevitability. By your rationale, then Sven's actions do affect Dora.
Logged
@syleegrrl

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,258
  • You're not the only one, no.

Again, if there is some history we are unaware of (the comic has gone into Dora and Sven's childhoods possibly more than any other characters except Hanners) Then this is just bad story telling. For something to suddenly be presented now, with no foreshadowing, is sloppy.

From where I'm sitting, Dora's intense dislike of Sven, expressed multiple times, along with a couple of fairly shitting things Sven has done has provided plenty of foreshadowing.
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

plusorminus

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110



She is using Faye and Sven's situation, which Faye nor Sven have said word one to Dora about, to cut Sven off.  Faye might be an ass to people, but she applies it evenly.  Everyone gets shit.  And once Faye finds this out she is probably going to go thermal on Dora.  Faye already threatened to kick the shit out of Dora once, and I can see this bring the breaking point for Faye. 

And as an aside, Marten needs to stop being an emotional tampon for the women in his life.

You do not know that. In fact, I'd argue that the fact that Dora asked Marten not to say anything to Faye indicates the exact opposite. Dora has said she is going to tell her parents. This is a huge deal. The very fact that she wanted to and continues to want to leave Faye out of it says to me that Dora is not "using" the situation to cut Sven off.

Also? Faye needs to keep her hands to herself. If Dora annoys her, then Faye has every right to quit and find work elsewhere. Threatening to or actually striking someone doesn't solve everything. Dora is not making Faye responsible. She would have come into the shop guns blazing telling Faye "OMFG that's it, I'm done with Sven after what he's done to you."

In the same sense, Dora cutting Sven out of her life will affect Faye. Indirectly. Faye will have to deal with the fallout that is inevitable when someone publicly cuts another out of their life. She will probably have to spend time comforting Dora, maybe talk with Sven, etc. It adds another layer to every interaction, more energy that will need to be spent on this.

Why would you think this? Faye is not obligated to be anybody's agony aunt, and Dora doesn't even want her to know about it, let along give her guidance about it. Faye would have every right to tell Sven to fuck himself if he approaches her again. It's not her brother or her problem. All she needs to do is her job.
Logged

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,258
  • You're not the only one, no.

In the same sense, Dora cutting Sven out of her life will affect Faye. Indirectly. Faye will have to deal with the fallout that is inevitable when someone publicly cuts another out of their life. She will probably have to spend time comforting Dora, maybe talk with Sven, etc. It adds another layer to every interaction, more energy that will need to be spent on this.

Why would you think this? Faye is not obligated to be anybody's agony aunt, and Dora doesn't even want her to know about it, let along give her guidance about it.

She's not obligated, but she almost certainly will, regardless. So it will affect her.
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

hedgie

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,989
  • Can't be buggered at all

Faye needs to keep her hands to herself. If Dora annoys her, then Faye has every right to quit and find work elsewhere. Threatening to or actually striking someone doesn't solve everything.
I know that Faye has gotten far less punch-happy since the comic began (she really does seem to be making progress in therapy), but still for her, and to a lesser extent, Dora, and some other members of the cast (hell, even Momo was ready to zap Emily) seem to look at physical violence from the perspective "well, if it's not working, use more".
Logged
"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9   Go Up