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Poll

This week on QC...

Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*
- 122 (56.7%)
Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.
- 32 (14.9%)
Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes
- 7 (3.3%)
A solid week of Steve eating cereal
- 9 (4.2%)
Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives
- 45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 203

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04


Pages: 1 ... 19 20 [21] 22 23 ... 32   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 148415 times)

pwhodges

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How many people younger than you do you hang out with Hodgy?

Everyone at work, and as my wife is nearly ten years younger than me, most of my family friends.  Only some of the choir I sing in, though!  But "I believe there are a few..." was just a bit of my typical deadpan understatement, of course.
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"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

aliensporebomb

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I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm not quite as negative as you three but I do believe this is not a long term permanent type relationship.  But then again I've been wrong before. 

It's hard to put my finger on it but....  In some ways Claire is like a supporting character in a long running sitcom that suddenly becomes a main character for some reason.  Perhaps she'll grow on me. 
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wiserd

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I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

Is Claire just another 'girl in his vicinity?' Or can someone explain the substance of Martin's attraction? He doesn't seem the type of guy to pick up girls on the street or have brief relationships, which suggests substance is likely important to him.
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LazarMarkovic

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Must admit I don't give a good goddamn about the semantics, I am normally one jaded SOB but comic 8707 had me whooping round the room like a crazy man. Who cares about the whys and wherefores lets just bask in the squee and enjoy whats looks to be a new and awesome relationship in the comic.  :-D

N/B As long as Claire isn't a Manchester City fan- Hate city fans with a passion
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TomOBedlam

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In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.

I've been having that kind of dream from an early age (youngest I can remember would've been 9 or 10).  I'm at work, so I have to take short cuts (ie. wikipedia), but you might find this interesting:

"The anima and animus, in Carl Jung's school of analytical psychology, are the two primary anthropomorphic archetypes of the unconscious mind, as opposed to both the theriomorphic and inferior-function of the shadow archetypes, as well as the abstract symbol sets that formulate the archetype of the Self. The anima and animus are described by Jung as elements of his theory of the collective unconscious, a domain of the unconscious that transcends the personal psyche. In the unconscious of the male, this archetype finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

The anima and animus can be identified as the totality of the unconscious feminine psychological qualities that a male possesses or the masculine ones possessed by the female, respectively. It is an archetype of the collective unconscious and not an aggregate of father or mother, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or teachers, though these aspects of the personal unconscious can influence the person for good or ill.

Because a man's sensitivity must often be repressed, the anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It is said to manifest itself by appearing in dreams. It also influences a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them and vice versa for females and the animus. Jung said that "the encounter with the shadow is the 'apprentice-piece' in the individual's development...that with the anima is the 'masterpiece'".[1] Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability."


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Platypodes

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[...] does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.
I count three, maybe four--Faye, Dora, Padma, maaaaaybe Lt. Potter (but she may have just been the first random attractive lady he met when he was trying to forget Padma rather than someone he would ever have been seriously into).  I take this as a positive change, though.

It can be good for someone who keeps having failed relationships with the same type to break the pattern instead of repeating the same cycle for the rest of their life.  Marten has expressed unhappiness with his own passivity, and relationships with dominant women only encourage him to be more passive.  With Claire, he'll be an equal in the relationship, and he may be drawn to that (as well as obviously liking how he feels when he touches her).  Yay for trying something new when the old wasn't working.

I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

Is Claire just another 'girl in his vicinity?' Or can someone explain the substance of Martin's attraction? He doesn't seem the type of guy to pick up girls on the street or have brief relationships, which suggests substance is likely important to him.
I think Faye and Dora were more than just "hot girls" to Marten; otherwise he woudn't have such meaningful friendships with them now that there's no prospect of bangin'.

And yes, substance is definitely important to him (witness his unhappiness with his random one-night stand).  I don't know that anyone but Marten himself could explain which characteristics of Claire's make him like her, but he's had lots of opportunity to get to know her as a person.
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MooskiNet

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Thanks - that was interesting reading.  Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.
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Platypodes

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Loving your feminine aspects is a lot better than stomping on them like some fellas do.
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DocMob

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Finally registered in order to weigh in on Marten's feelings for Claire, and how they manifested themselves. I don't see any of this as sudden - rather, I think he's been falling for the longest time. I think a significant - telling - moment came at http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432, when his reaction to her running from the room was questions; the right questions. "Are you okay? Do you need help? Is there anything I can do?" All about Claire, and finding out how she feels. And while he boiled his long declaration down to a few words, about how he felt, and hoped she felt, I think the (abbreviated) long version was something along the lines of (after talking with Claire and Tai): "I realize I don't know what I want out of my job (it's not my dream job), but I do know what I want in my life: you." :claireface: From experience, I can say, that happens.
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GarandMarine

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I had pancakes for lunch today at the local diner and it's all this thread's fault.

Doc makes a point I've been meaning to make for me as well. This isn't sudden. This has been building since Claire's intro.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

TomOBedlam

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Thanks - that was interesting reading.  Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.

For a long time, I've felt that everyone we fall in love with, and who falls in love with us, provides a kind of mirror for aspects of ourselves we may not be aware of/are avoiding/are absolutely bloody terrified of.  That probably sounds horribly self-centred, but i don't mean it in that way - rather, I see the love relationship as a key arena for personal evolution for both parties.

And yes, loving our feminine and masculine aspect(s) is profoundly better than trampling all over them in projected form (ie. the people we project our own shadow selves onto).  Lol, not a Jungian, but I do enjoy playing with his ideas...
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HES

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Thursday: Stereal. Friday: Marten chokes on hair. Monday we find out if he lives or not.
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Aziraphale

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In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.

I'm glad I'm not the only person this has happened to. I had a couple of dreams like that, both with the same person -- who, I should mention, was someone I'd never seen or met in my waking hours. They were incredibly vivid, to a point that both times I spent days afterward wondering if this was something that had happened that I'd somehow forgotten or something. It was a really disturbing experience.

By way of a postscript, I read Tom's post on the Jungian aspect of the whole thing, and while it's interesting, it doesn't entirely ring true to me; I've never feared, much less tried to repress, my feminine side, so I don't think it's that. Having said that, I'm aware that I could be misinterpreting something in there, at least as far as the dream goes. I do think -- between experience and anecdotal evidence -- that there's something to the latter post, and that it goes some way toward explaining why "opposites attract." It's beyond cliche to say that two people complete each other (besides the fact that not everyone needs to be completed); however, I think that we're drawn toward people from whom we can learn.
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TomOBedlam

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I'm glad I'm not the only person this has happened to. I had a couple of dreams like that, both with the same person -- who, I should mention, was someone I'd never seen or met in my waking hours. They were incredibly vivid, to a point that both times I spent days afterward wondering if this was something that had happened that I'd somehow forgotten or something. It was a really disturbing experience.

By way of a postscript, I read Tom's post on the Jungian aspect of the whole thing, and while it's interesting, it doesn't entirely ring true to me; I've never feared, much less tried to repress, my feminine side, so I don't think it's that...

I've had the reverse happen - memories of things that I am convinced happened or places I have been to - only to discover that these were events and places that I dreamed of.  I've carried around apparent memories of several houses that I was sure I had actually visited, only to have the realisation that no, I dreamed that.  It is always extremely unsettling.

The vividness of the dream lover is well attested, I think.  My own experience of these kinds of dreams has often been harrowing - I usually wake up feeling desperately sad.

I have a lot of respect for Jung, but I see his theoroies - all theories really - as maps of the territory, not the territory itself.  Partial explanations at best :-)
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eschaton

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Ignoring the rest of your post and the discussion of Marten/Claire as a pairing, I just have to comment on this. I hatehatehate the idea that someone has to be swooning over someone to be genuinely, non-passively, interested. If Marten had been completely visible about his interest in her (he had shown some inconclusive hints), I'd probably think it was creepy if anything. People can keep their feelings to themselves, and people can have strong feelings without being overwhelmed by them.

My point wasn't that it wasn't a valid reason to try things out, only that Claire actually seems like she has stronger feelings here than Marten. 

That said, while in general I agree that attraction+friendship can be an okay base to start a relationship, once someone is part of your circle of friends, it gets a lot more complicated.  Around ten years ago I had had like a girl I was besties with.  I was attracted to (at different times) two of her friends.  But I saw them all the time socially speaking, and I just thought it would be too awkward to make a move because of how I'd have to see them all the time if it didn't work out.  Higher thresholds seem prudent, is all I'm saying. 

I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

I think they're very different from just being hot girls.  He and Faye obviously had natural chemistry with one another.  They might not have made a good couple if they were actually dating, but if Faye didn't have her trust issues at the start of the comic, they would have fallen into a pretty cliched love affair pretty shortly thereafter.  In contrast, Dora is a pretty good case for Martin rationalizing himself into a relationship.  I mean, I think he clearly ended up loving her, even if he never officially fell in love with her. 

Possibly answered already, and not quite canon, and 3 years old but Jeph has spoken on this in the past:

From Jeph's Tumblr 3 years ago:
Quote
How old are all the characters?

Hanners and Marigold are only 21 or 22, Marten and Faye and the bulk of the cast are 24-25, Dora’s 26, Sven’s 27, etc etc etc I have a million characters

Claire and Marten are just about the same age.

Wow.  Those were the ages of the characters at the beginning of the comic too, IIRC.  This means only a year has passed since the start of the comic in QC time.  Unless years were skipped more recently, or QC is like the Simpsons, and no one ever ages. 

Finally registered in order to weigh in on Marten's feelings for Claire, and how they manifested themselves. I don't see any of this as sudden - rather, I think he's been falling for the longest time. I think a significant - telling - moment came at http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2432, when his reaction to her running from the room was questions; the right questions. "Are you okay? Do you need help? Is there anything I can do?" All about Claire, and finding out how she feels. And while he boiled his long declaration down to a few words, about how he felt, and hoped she felt, I think the (abbreviated) long version was something along the lines of (after talking with Claire and Tai): "I realize I don't know what I want out of my job (it's not my dream job), but I do know what I want in my life: you." :claireface: From experience, I can say, that happens.

And that's exactly the sort of comic I look at and see no romantic context to whatsoever.  Just friendly concern.

Look, it's long since over, but I had plenty of female friends back in the day I would have very intense emotional relationships with.  I would stay up staring at the stars talking to them.  One I drove to an abortion because no one else was available.  Another had no compunction about getting naked in front of me.  Another liked to hold my hand and snuggle.  Another slept in bed with me.  I might have felt romantic tension with them, but it was eventually made painfully clear that they didn't feel the same way.  They felt a lot of trust and intimacy towards me, but that didn't equate to wanting to bone. 

Emotional intimacy does not equal physical intimacy, full stop.  A man and a woman becoming besties does not mean they'e going to screw eventually.  I guess it could happen, but in my experience, this is much rarer than just dating strangers until you meet one that works. 
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MooskiNet

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Early update; Clairemom likes Marten okay.  :)
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iandanger

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I suppose we got our cereal comic
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TomOBedlam

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2809 - a very cute pause in the action :-)  Mrs Augustus clearly is a schemer...
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ElsaStegosaurus

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Cereal AND pancakes?  MADNESS.

I'll admit, I both chuckled and groaned.  Kinda expected a break and scene change after yesterday.
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Smallest

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True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.
Pancake-flavored cereal?  Pancakes with cereal as an ingredient?  Cereal that's been run over by a steamroller?

Pancake (and maple) flavoured.
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FunkyTuba

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Heh... it occurs to me that this is a first for ClaireMom too.
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ZoeB

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Oddly, my takeaway from that is that I'd been repeatedly falling in love with the feminine aspects of myself.

And as a counterpoint, as through force of circumstances I had to pretend to be male for a long time, it's obvious in hindsight that I tried to be the kind of man I should have married.

The interesting thing is that I still try to retain those virtues, even though they're traditionally supposed to be masculine, and I have every excuse for recoiling from anything remotely male due to insecurity about my own femininity. I'm Intersex after all, and I've observed that most women, cis or trans, feel they have to work hard to conform to societal expectations of femininity. In theory, I should too, more than most. I just feel that Life's too short, I have more important things to do. I don't buy into a lot of it anyway.

While the "masculine virtues" may statistically and traditionally be called "masculine" - they're feminine too. Just as the traditionally "feminine virtues" are masculine, even if more commonly found in women than men.

You want courage? Try giving birth. You put your life on the line for your baby. Every mother has done the equivalent of charging a machine-gun nest. Every man who volunteers to protect his country does just the same as a mother cat protecting her kittens. The military, when it doesn't become pathological, is a very maternal thing.
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ZoeB

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Heh... it occurs to me that this is a first for ClaireMom too.

Oh well spotted! That hadn't occurred to me, and should have done. (applause)
She's handling it rather well, I think.
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FunkyTuba

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Seems so... she has to have had her own journey complete with doubts, recriminations, joy etc along the way.

Showing us this is just the kind of touch that Jeph has that keeps me coming back. [/gush]
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HES

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It had to be cereal... but Jeph still manages to surprise.
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ZoeB

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As for matters pancakey - by pure coincidence (we'd arranged it weeks earlier) we sojourned to the Pancake Parlour last night. They run a sampler night every wednesday. Pricey (even at half price) but nicey.

Small bowl of Salad and buttered potatos
Crepe Tabriz - spicy lamb mince wrapped in a crepe
Pancake Parmigiana - buckwheat pancake, thick chicken breast, ham, cheese, then tomato puree
Traditional Apple pancake with vanilla custard
Russian blintz with ice cream

$27 the lot.

That was 18 hours ago. I'm still in a state of happy pancake-filled repletion, and might start getting an appetite in another 8-10 hours or so.
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Akima wrote thus : " Besides which, forgiving other people is something you do for yourself, not for them. "

grouchygizmo

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Mrs. Augustus is so cute. She is obviously the kind of parent that wants her kids to be happy- and if Marten is going to make her daughter happy, then she is happy.

I wrote out the word happy a lot.

Happyhappyhappy.
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FunkyTuba

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )
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TomOBedlam

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As for matters pancakey - by pure coincidence (we'd arranged it weeks earlier) we sojourned to the Pancake Parlour last night. They run a sampler night every wednesday. Pricey (even at half price) but nicey.

...
That was 18 hours ago. I'm still in a state of happy pancake-filled repletion, and might start getting an appetite in another 8-10 hours or so.

My god, haven't been there for years!  Had to stop when my son was diagnosed with coeliac disease.  I remember my daughter being a fan of the short stack smothered in chocolate syrup and hundreds 'n thousands. Happy times :-)
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Durmatagno

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".
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Ustrello

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing
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FunkyTuba

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom.

Plus, that's a squeeface. I know it's a squeeface because I've been seeing one much like it in the mirror after each update this week.
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Neko_Ali


Yup. Clairemom agrees. Now it is time for her and Veronica to get together and start planning the reasonable number of grandkids.
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valkygrrl

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing

Aren't they outside talking and cuddling on the porch?

Somehow doubt that the Mom/Daughter relationship is the kind where Claire would take her boyfriend upstairs while Mom eats cereal.
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Ustrello

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Not sure if she knows yet, otherwise there'd probably more than "he seemed nice".

Of course she knows, she is a mom. She basically said it in her phone conversation with Marten and her looking upstairs where claire and marten are also hints at her knowing

Aren't they outside talking and cuddling on the porch?

Somehow doubt that the Mom/Daughter relationship is the kind where Claire would take her boyfriend upstairs while Mom eats cereal.

Fair enough looked like they were at the top of a flight of stairs just in front of a hallway
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ZoeB

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Cereal - now with added squee.
YES!!!!!
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iandanger

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I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now
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valkygrrl

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I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?
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nosaJay19

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<3 <3 <3 All my love for Momma Augustus!

Martéclaire can have what's left over.
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Ustrello

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I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

I just feel if it was a porch it would be pulled back a bit so we could see the walkway or grass or something.
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Ustrello

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I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?

If you think that is a big lock then you havent seen a inner city house in chicago
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iandanger

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I originally thought porch but it looks more like upstairs when I look now

With a big lock on the door? Do you have big locks on your inside doors? Is that a thing now?

Well, actually yes all my upstairs doors have deadbolts, but it is odd, we think maybe the house was a very tiny apartment in the past
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HES

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It must be the porch - the top of the stairs looks completely different.
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Ustrello

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It must be the porch - the top of the stairs looks completely different.

Unless it has multiple staircases, but you are probably right I forgot about that one.
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AprilArcus

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I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business shortly after, digs into Faye fearlessly, doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements, and makes no secret of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate and humiliate her brother, and refuses to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express her interest very subtly, in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma showed him that life would pass him by if he didn't learn to be proactive. He's been trying to figure out what he really wants. He knows it isn't casual sex. He does know that he likes being around Claire, and that she likes him back. And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire and Marten are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.
« Last Edit: 08 Oct 2014, 18:48 by AprilArcus »
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HES

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All posts should be url'd like this. I now have a thoroughly enjoyable tabsplosion...
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FunkyTuba

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2807 panel 2 shows a diagonal line... looks to me like the kiss happened in the hall on the way to the front door.

2808: whether that's a big or a small deadbolt, it's a deadbolt, and we're in suburb in western MA which implies pretty heavily to me "outside door"

The doorway they're sitting in confuses me a bit but it still could be an enclosed-in wraparound porch off the front of a single family house

ps: thanks AprilArcus for taking the time to archive crawl and find all those references. I'd been wanting to make a similar kind of point but frankly didn't have the time or energy to document it so thoroughly

Edit: found a link to a porch that fits the description
« Last Edit: 08 Oct 2014, 18:45 by FunkyTuba »
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jwhouk

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Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

Exactly! I'm 28 and I listen to Paul Simon (his old, good stuff like There Goes Rhymin' Simon and Graceland), ELO, Supertramp, and Scott Joplin. I'm convinced my love of ragtime was instilled by a childhood spent with Super Mario Bros.

Oh God, did you just call Graceland OLD? I remember when it came out!

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"Says the gentleman whose birth preceded the release of The White Album by a year and a few weeks..."
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Orkboy

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She appears to be squeeing along with us (some of us  :-) )

Nonsense.  It is a dignified and mature "excellent!" and not at all a "squee."

jwhouk

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Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

See?

Trivia for Paul: George Harrison was doing final mixing for "Blue Jay Way" on my birthday.


EDIT: Aaaaand I just flipped us to 22 pages.  :psyduck:
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"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
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