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Poll

This week on QC...

Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*
- 122 (56.7%)
Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.
- 32 (14.9%)
Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes
- 7 (3.3%)
A solid week of Steve eating cereal
- 9 (4.2%)
Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives
- 45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 203

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04


Pages: 1 ... 20 21 [22] 23 24 ... 32   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 148453 times)

nosaJay19

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I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

 And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered to seek out what he wants.

Empowered, huh?
I get it.
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Ustrello

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Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

See?

Trivia for Paul: George Harrison was doing final mixing for "Blue Jay Way" on my birthday.


EDIT: Aaaaand I just flipped us to 22 pages.  :psyduck:

Switch the beatles with Zep and same thing for me
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"Says the gentleman whose birth preceded the release of The White Album by a year and a few weeks..."

... which I bought on the day of release.
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Aside from their love of books, in what way are Penelope and Claire similar at all?

Well I've never seen Claire and Pizza Girl at the same place at the same time...
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AprilArcus

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SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business shortly after, digs into Faye fearlessly, doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements, and makes no secret of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate and humiliate her brother, and refuses to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express her interest very subtly, in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma showed him that life would pass him by if he didn't learn to be proactive. He's been trying to figure out what he really wants. He knows it isn't casual sex. He does know that he likes being around Claire, and that she likes him back. And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire and Marten are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

FunkyTuba

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^--heh... sucks being on the bottom of a new page when you've put that much effort into a post
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Ustrello

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SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business shortly after, digs into Faye fearlessly, doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements, and makes no secret of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate and humiliate her brother, and refuses to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express her interest very subtly, in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma showed him that life would pass him by if he didn't learn to be proactive. He's been trying to figure out what he really wants. He knows it isn't casual sex. He does know that he likes being around Claire, and that she likes him back. And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire and Marten are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

Great job man that is a lot of effort
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digitarii

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Ok, I joined the board just to be able to say...

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Thanks, Jeph!

[EDITED : If I offended anybody with what I posted, my apologies. I didn't see it as fetishization as much as acknowledgement of what's going on inside my head. Nevertheless, I did look at it from an outsider's PoV and I can see how it could be construed the way it was. I have read through the rules and will abide by them from now on.]
« Last Edit: 09 Oct 2014, 06:11 by digitarii »
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Orkboy

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For those of you not feeling old because of music yet, I heard Tool on the classic rock station yesterday.  My response was rather undignified, but I did inadvertently teach my older brother how a real maintainer swears.  He was a missile tech, not a real maintainer, cuz he didn't use duct tape or percussion maintenance. 

TomOBedlam

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I'm trying to find a transwoman to date that isn't a pro.

What does what someone does to earn a living have to do with anything?  I know sex-work is stigmatised, isn't culturally seen as being the same as other kinds of wage-earning, has ridiculous levels of social baggage attached to it - but you know what, people working in the sex industry are still just people, with all the same needs and hopes as anybody else, and just as much to give to the people that they love.

Edited:  Sorry, that was harsh - I was thinking of a good friend of mine who was a sex worker for years, also a fantastic mum and partner and staunch in her love for the people in her life - your reference to 'pro' set me off, which was unfair.
« Last Edit: 08 Oct 2014, 19:17 by TomOBedlam »
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SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business shortly after, digs into Faye fearlessly, doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements, and makes no secret of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate and humiliate her brother, and refuses to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express her interest very subtly, in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma showed him that life would pass him by if he didn't learn to be proactive. He's been trying to figure out what he really wants. He knows it isn't casual sex. He does know that he likes being around Claire, and that she likes him back. And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire and Marten are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

Well, dang, son. Than covers way more than I was gonna say. I just wanna add this one in: http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=2482
Note Claire's reaction in panels 2 and 3, almost like she doesn't like Tai's suggestion about Marten being with someone else. I could be reading into bit a bit much (it could just be she's disapproving of casual hook-ups, which was proven with Delilah), but after the past few days, we're all overgeneralize stuff. I just wanted to be included!   :cry:
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DSL

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Cereal voters of the forum rejoice!
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"We are who we pretend to be. So we had better be careful who we pretend to be."  -- Kurt Vonnegut.

ReindeerFlotilla

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So. I'm new. I don't really lurk. I just stop in from time to time to satisfy the "OMG!! DIDYOUSEETHAT?!?" reflex.

I finally have something to say.

Let me, further, preface this by explaining that I am a lapsed writer. Despite all the words written about how you are no writer if you aren't writing, I still claim the title. I never stop thinking about how to write, about how elements of story, theme and character come together. And I still write stuff. I just never finish anything. I'm not claiming any authority here. Just explaining that what follows is coming from a place of story analysis. A place that exists only in my head, admittedly.

But enough about me. There's a point!

The reason Marten's behavior seems sudden to some, and inevitable to others is that Jeph is a damn fine storyteller.

There's a certain looseness to the way he crafts this stuff. That's not a surprise. He draws without a buffer. It's also not a criticism. I wish I could craft like he does.

I point that out to note that his method allows him the freedom to change direction if he choses to. So I am not going to make the case that Marten and Claire was part of a deep plan going back to Claire's introduction.

Jeph is the only person (I know of) qualified to speak to that.

Rather, I would point out that everything that has happened is consistent with the outcome. (I just read everything since Claire's first appearance this last weekend.)

There are a lot of moving parts here, so I am not going to make a forensic discussion of my first post. Claire is definitely more into Marten than he is into her. The rapidity with which she trusted him points to that. But that is pretty much how relationships go. It's a nice myth, the idea that people in love are equally into each other, but it is just a myth.

Marten has been fairly self involved of late. On the other hand, he actually seems to have learned something from his post one night stand melt down. Specifically, that his problem wasn't that big a deal. More over, he has been his usual contentious self, especially towards Claire, even during the self involved phase.

Maybe that was foreshadowing. Maybe it was just Marten being Marten. 

Sometimes, in real life, a person will find themselves looking at another person in a new way. Maybe that is what happened to Marten, though I think this is more a case of realizing he.d been looking at Claire in a new way since the wedding.

I think Marten surprised himself, and us. To borrow a phrase from the armchair military strategists, "surprise is what happens when you misinterpret something you've seen all along."

I, personally, choose to think that Jeph planned it that way. As a writer, the one night stand arc looks to me like a classic misdirection. It provides the impression that we are all up in Marten's head and know everything he's concerned with. By outing Claire's crush, through Faye, the emotional focus stays with Claire. It's a great build up and it was executed perfectly. Go Jeph!

We've only been allowed back in Marten's head in flashes, since. That's also effective storytelling. Sometimes the audience only learns whether a character's actions are growth, or more of the same old, after the fact. Getting the audience involved in asking, "what is going on here?" is tricky business.

I could be wrong. It could be that Jeph is about to drop the ball. But I have watched him grow as an artist and writer for years, now. I will take the leap of faith, simply because he's done a good job getting to this point.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

TieDyeKat

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It could be oatmeal.

Or yogurt.

Or granola.

Or berries.

Or soup.

Or mac and cheese.

Or pudding.

Or rice.

Or air for all we know.  There's no box.
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Please, sir, may I have some more?

valkygrrl

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So. I'm new. I don't really lurk. I just stop in from time to time to satisfy the "OMG!! DIDYOUSEETHAT?!?" reflex.

I finally have something to say.

Let me, further, preface this by explaining that I am a lapsed writer. Despite all the words written about how you are no writer if you aren't writing, I still claim the title. I never stop thinking about how to write, about how elements of story, theme and character come together. And I still write stuff. I just never finish anything. I'm not claiming any authority here. Just explaining that what follows is coming from a place of story analysis. A place that exists only in my head, admittedly.



Now that I've been welcomed (by private message but still) I get the chance. Welcome.

Now advice from a stranger. Write. Nanowimo is in a few weeks and that gives you enough time to sketch out an outline and jump in. Plus if you need a Wrimo buddy send me a PM and I'll give you my wrimo username and twitter handle then hound you endlessly till your only defense will be to WRITE.
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Akima

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I'm trying to find a transwoman to date that isn't a pro.
I had to reread that three times before I could believe someone posted it.

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world?
Phew... I haven't fallen into a parallel universe of <rude word>s. I'm not a trans woman, I'm an East Asian woman, but some aspects of fetishisation and objectification are not dissimilar.

I think 2807 and 2808 might be Jeph's most romantic comics yet.
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"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

ReindeerFlotilla

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Thanks. I might take you up on that. Right now my focus is desperately on paying the bills. Still developing, though. Like I implied, winging it is not one of my skills.

But, you never know. Things might turn 'round before November. If they do, perhaps I'll have developed something I want to write. :)

Edit to add total agreement with AprilArcus's analysis. Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.

AprilArcus

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Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.

Literally the only thing Claire is retiring about is sex and romance. Not in a deep, asexual way, but in a shallow way where she reacts instantly and fiercely and then a moment later squelches it and tries to regain her composure. Steve's butt. Steve's shoulders. Henry Reed. Maurice's cologne. Marten. Marten. Marten.

She's the kind of person who would be impulsively sexual if she felt remotely safe about it. But she feels deeply unsafe expressing arousal or desire because her history and the reality of the world she lives in means that her most innocent actions could be read as deceptive or even predatory. So on eggshells she walks, against her nature.

This is Jeph's storytelling genius - he is talking about deeply personal, deeply political issues entirely through subtext. Everything we need to know to understand who Claire is and why she acts the way she does is there on the page, but he's not going to put it into words that someone else can twist; he's going to show-not-tell us the very painful, complicated stuff going on this person's head and rely on our smarts to reassemble it.
« Last Edit: 08 Oct 2014, 20:56 by AprilArcus »
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valkygrrl

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Thanks. I might take you up on that. Right now my focus is desperately on paying the bills. Still developing, though. Like I implied, winging it is not one of my skills.

But, you never know. Things might turn 'round before November. If they do, perhaps I'll have developed something I want to write. :)

Edit to add total agreement with AprilArcus's analysis. Claire's aura of adorable made the argument that she is a retiring sort seem rock solid, even after reviewing. But it is clear that she is just as sass filled as anyone else Marten has shown interest in, in her own way.

Developing is for second drafts. You know you want to be writing buddies with a complete stranger. Do it do it. When you hit 50000 words we shall celebrate by listening to Toto and squeeing over marten and Clare or as most of the chat calls it, Monday.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.

I was simply noting how easy it is to take one impression and build a theory on it. I, personally, don't see any need for Claire to "fit the pattern" in order to justify Marten's interest.

On the other hand, I agree that the argument that she is not equal to Dora and Faye, in that respect, is meritless.

Edit: I just don't work that way, valkgrrl. I have to understand the interrelated elements before I can do anything. I really do envy those who can just feel their way forward, but I have to know the rules of my universe before I set about breaking them.

It's a weakness.  I pantsed my way through nano twice, and I hate both of those stories.

Edit edit: 50000 words is something I already proved able to do. Next time I want to also manage something that makes sense. Something I will still feel good about when the dust settles. Not perfection, but definitely a sense of coherence.

TomOBedlam

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This is Jeph's storytelling genius - he is talking about deeply personal, deeply political issues entirely through subtext. Everything we need to know to understand who Claire is and why she acts the way she does is there on the page, but he's not going to put it into words that someone else can twist; he's going to show-not-tell us the very painful, complicated stuff going on this person's head and rely on our smarts to reassemble it.

Yes, this.  The subtle way that Jeph is telling his story makes QC a compelling read most days, utterly rivetting at the moment.
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TomOBedlam

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Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.

Is careful, patient story-telling that shows rather than tells (thanks AprilArcus) just less common these days?  Jeph doesn't spoon-feed his readers - for a seemingly simple 4 or 5 panel comic, we readers often have to work to undersand the story, and neat summaries and explanations aren't really a feature.  I love this aspect of his craft, and wonder (as I do with many of the authors whose work I admire) how much is innate and unplanned, and how much stems from very careful planning indeed.

Edit: Btw mate, I love your alternate reality QC plot summaries :-)

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iandanger

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Random, but this is the first time I've seen "retiring" used as an adjective. That's going into my lexicon
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Rghfrgl

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 I'd never heard it either. I figured it was brits talking english english or something.
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Orkboy

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I've heard it, and I'm Texan.  Maybe you just need to hang out with smart people more often.   :wink:

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That's right, Mrs. A, Marten is a nice boy.

He wouldn't hurt a fly.

With his physique, he couldn't.  :claireface:

(sorry foilks, had to put a squee antidote in here somehow)
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SHAMELESS SELF-BUMP

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women.

I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business shortly after, digs into Faye fearlessly, doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements, and makes no secret of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate and humiliate her brother, and refuses to put up with his overprotective schtick.

This is not a girl afraid of expressing her opinions or accustomed to backing down. She has the same bulldog intensity that Marten was drawn to in Faye and Dora, and is clearly his "type" in a way that, say, Hannelore and Emily aren't.

HOWEVER, she's doesn't feel safe throwing herself at Marten the way that his previous lovers have done, because she is either confused and disgusted by her own body, or expects that Marten might be, or both. This means that she has to express her interest very subtly, in a way that would be otherwise out of character for a girl with her obstreperous personality, and wait for Marten to notice and take the initiative to act on it. Which he finally did.

You can argue whether making a move like this is in character for Marten. I would say that it's the direction his character has been arcing toward for the last thousand strips (or three months, comic time). Losing Padma showed him that life would pass him by if he didn't learn to be proactive. He's been trying to figure out what he really wants. He knows it isn't casual sex. He does know that he likes being around Claire, and that she likes him back. And for the first time in his life, he feels empowered to seek out what he wants.

So this is a place we got to slowly and deliberately. Characters growing and changing is not the same as acting out of character.

Quote
Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.'

Well, isn't it fortunate that trans women's bodies aren't props for straight people's fetishes, but are actually just the bodies of regular humans who are just trying to make it in the world? And that Claire and Marten are both good-bordering-on-paranoid communicators about consent?

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

I just gotta applaud the effort in this post. Amazing work, and point well made.
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Blackbird

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Hi, yet another Newbie here.  I mostly started reading this thread because I knew that there would be discussion about Martenclaire and I knew that would be amusing, but 22 pages and a few hours later, I feel inclined to weigh in with a few observations:

1. Clairemom and Veronica, BFFs... OMG YES! I hadn't considered this until I started reading this thread and now I want to see it more than anything.

2. Somebody mentioned several pages ago that Claire was being drawn more and more appealing.  I noticed that too, but I thought it was subtext, possibly due to my own headcanon.  You see, I've always thought Jeph's evolving art style was supposed to mirror the evolution of how Marten sees the world.  Hanners was more attractive when she first appeared, but as Marten quickly saw her as less of a possible romantic partner and more of a friend/surrogate sister/crazy girl that he wouldn't touch ever, she became more plain/haggard-looking.  In the same light, Claire becoming more traditionally attractive as the art evolved I saw as a symbol of Marten's growing attraction to her.  (Also, for those who want to twist this into a blunting of her status as a trans person to make Joe Reader more comfortable, I don't buy it.  Her most masculine features (the angular jawline, the large hands, and the slight adam's apple) are all still there.  It was less gender-oriented features that got reduced.)

I really hope that didn't cross the "do not talk about" line.  If it did, I apologize. 

3. I also believe they're on the porch.  All of the interior walls we've seen have been various shades of blue that coordinate well together. Having a hallway that shade of green really doesn't fit with the rest of the house unless it's the outside.

4. Sqqqqquuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (sorry, had to)
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Being retiring about anything is understandable. People shouldn't have to justify their personality expression unless said expression is harmful. I realize that my view here isn't universal, but that's where I stand.

Is careful, patient story-telling that shows rather than tells (thanks AprilArcus) just less common these days?
(Snip)

I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.

The specific wording of my comment is based on the original wording of April's post, which stated that the only thing Claire was retiring about was sex, and that she had good reason for that. (I assume that the reason referred to is being trans. But I put no words in anyone's mouth.)

My reply was simply stating that I don't think it important that she has good reason or not. From a view of characterization, Claire's reasons need only be consistent. From the view of Claire as a real person, her reasons need only be reasons that do no harm. Beyond that, Claire should not have to justify who she is.

Others should accept her or walk away.

Interestingly, to the extent that we know Claire, she doesn't seem to feel any particular pressure to justify herself.  From a meta standpoint, I think that serves just the purpose of subtle crafting.

Perhaps, being cis, I have this wrong. It seems to me that the most important thing about being trans is that, like cis people, trans people are people first.  The most important thing about Claire, as a character, is that she is Claire.

If the aspect of Claire we saw most was whatever issues being trans caused her, that would, I think, overwhelm the story that Jeph is telling. Of course, only Jeph knows exactly what that story is, but it seems to me that it's a story about people. Perhaps I read too much into it. Still, it seems to me that any and all socio-political messages derive from the fact that the story (at least this aspect of it) is about Claire (who happens to be trans) and not about a trans person (who happens to be Claire).

ReindeerFlotilla

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I've heard it, and I'm Texan.  Maybe you just need to hang out with smart people more often.   :wink:

That's just the way I talk. I might say "not exactly certain" instead of "uncertain" but for the most part, what you read is what you would hear.

I'm also from Texas, for certain values of "from." "Shy and retiring," has been a life long phrase for me. I probably read it in book.

TomOBedlam

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I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.

...

Ah yes, I used the wrong quote, and I can see why my comments didn't make any sense with respect to your thoughts about retiring and aggression.  Sorry about that, I wasn't being critical of you and AprilArcus - if indeed that is how you read my comments. 

I probably shouldn't be doing this at work ;-)
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ReindeerFlotilla

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I am uncertain what careful storytelling has to do with retiring vs aggression. I would appreciate any explanation.

...

Ah yes, I used the wrong quote, and I can see why my comments didn't make any sense with respect to your thoughts about retiring and aggression.  Sorry about that, I wasn't being critical of you and AprilArcus - if indeed that is how you read my comments. 

I probably shouldn't be doing this at work ;-)

Not at all upset. My default assumption is that something I said was unclear.

Until I'm sure that isn't the case, I keep calm and try to provide more details.

I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

Edit: unrelated to the above, and in response to the suggestion that Claire is getting cuter....

The way Jeph draws everyone has changed since Claire's introduction. I doubt that is related to anything other than the fact that Jeph hasn't stopped teaching himself how to draw.

That's probably been said before, but I saw it as an opportunity to gush over how much I enjoy watching the artistic experiments.

Also, Claire's always been drawn adorable. I'll wait until we see Clinton again before I seriously entertain the idea that she is getting more (more what? I don't know). 

(They obviously look alike. I forgot they aren't twins. But Claire looks like a girl and Clinton looks like a boy. To me. I always chalked it up to good character design.)

TomOBedlam

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Not at all upset. My default assumption is that something I said was unclear.

Until I'm sure that isn't the case, I keep calm and try to provide more details.

I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

Yep, my default position is the same - and some days I go out of my way to prove it ;-)
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Half Empty Coffee Cup

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In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.
I agree so much with this. It either makes me want to fall back asleep and just embrace unconsciousness rather than dealing with the feeling or I'm left feeling like I've lost a significant part of me for a good chunk of the day.
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What if Claire's mom is eating... Pancake Soup?!?!
It's a thing, and it's pretty good.

http://www.grouprecipes.com/74381/german-pancake-soup-----pfannkuchensuppe.html
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Shjade

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I think Claire is a dominant personality. She got right up in Marten's face in her first day on the job, and in Tai's business shortly after, digs into Faye fearlessly, doesn't hesitate to let Emily know when she's stepping on her style statements, and makes no secret of her disappointment in Marten's casual hook-up with Delilah. And she misses no opportunity to dominate and humiliate her brother, and refuses to put up with his overprotective schtick.

While the rest of your post makes some fair points, this section seems off to me, in that the examples you're providing don't seem to constitute "dominant" behavior. She jokes around, she speaks her mind, she teases her sibling, but she doesn't try to control the situation. She's not throwing her (admittedly rather light, from the look of it) weight around. She's direct, she's open about her thoughts, but I wouldn't call that "dominant" behavior. Maybe you're using the term in a different manner than I'm interpreting it, but I think of Faye or Dora's behavioral patterns as dominating in that they literally dominate people. Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>

If anything I'd say she sometimes speaks before considering consequences. She's intelligent and not afraid of sharing her thoughts; that's not the same as taking on a leadership role.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have questioned your dominance. You may wish to cow them into submission.
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TomOBedlam

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I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

One of the things that is really blowing my mind at the moment - pushed along by the kind of analyses you and AprilArcus and other folk have been providing - is how sophisticated Jeph's storytelling is.  I'm accustomed to this in other forms of literature, but I don't see it in web comics.  That's probably pure snobbery on my part, I know, and I simply haven't read enough to be able to make that kind of judgement. 
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AprilArcus

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Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>

She doesn't need to be more dominant than Faye to interest Marten; she just needs to be more dominant than Marten.

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Tha' be our Marten alraaght.  :)
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ReindeerFlotilla

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While the rest of your post makes some fair points, this section seems off to me, in that the examples you're providing don't seem to constitute "dominant" behavior. She jokes around, she speaks her mind, she teases her sibling, but she doesn't try to control the situation. She's not throwing her (admittedly rather light, from the look of it) weight around. She's direct, she's open about her thoughts, but I wouldn't call that "dominant" behavior. Maybe you're using the term in a different manner than I'm interpreting it, but I think of Faye or Dora's behavioral patterns as dominating in that they literally dominate people. Consider that bit you linked of Claire "digging into" Faye, for instance. What happens in the very next page? Claire wears a soda can for a hat out of fear of Faye. Real dominant display there for the redhead. >.>

If anything I'd say she sometimes speaks before considering consequences. She's intelligent and not afraid of sharing her thoughts; that's not the same as taking on a leadership role.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have questioned your dominance. You may wish to cow them into submission.

To be fair, everyone is afraid of Faye. She has the role of the comic's living engine of destruction. The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.
I was kinda hoping there was a connection. I felt like I was missing something, and wanted to know what it was. (:

One of the things that is really blowing my mind at the moment - pushed along by the kind of analyses you and AprilArcus and other folk have been providing - is how sophisticated Jeph's storytelling is.  I'm accustomed to this in other forms of literature, but I don't see it in web comics.  That's probably pure snobbery on my part, I know, and I simply haven't read enough to be able to make that kind of judgement. 

Jeph is extremely good at this stuff. Not just crafting, comic timing, but the whole thing. Even the rate at which he delivers new information and his trolling.

Mrs. A having cereal isn't just a good gag, it's the perfect break point and the perfect way to put the "button" on the scene.

Call me a fanboy, if you will. I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the craft to say that Jeph is either a master planner or a talented storyteller. Practice is part of it. Dedication to craft and character... I don't want to make it sound like magic. It's better than that. It's skill.

Ninja skill.

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Way to bring us back down. Mom eating (Cereal maybe?). She made pancakes and eats something in a bowl.
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Lubricus

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Well, she doesn't want to get infected by the love virus she put in the pancakes, I guess.  :evil:
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HES

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The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.
You sure about that? He's received more than a few dents by her hand.
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TomOBedlam

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Call me a fanboy, if you will. I'm confident enough in my knowledge of the craft to say that Jeph is either a master planner or a talented storyteller. Practice is part of it. Dedication to craft and character... I don't want to make it sound like magic. It's better than that. It's skill.

Ninja skill.

Ok, you're a fanboy ;-)  Enthusiasm leading to good critical thinking and writing should always be welcome, though. 
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Soulsynger

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After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O
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TomOBedlam

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Get your collective shits together already! °_O

What's the collective noun for that ?  A storm of shits?  :-D
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BenRG

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Ha! A nice variation on the cereal strip! Oddly enough, Mrs A's one line sums up Marten pretty well.

Yeah.... Considering that they haven't even had their first date yet, "I like you" is a perfectly good starting point; it doesn't have to be "ohmigod I'm crazy about you."

I don't think Marten is madly deliriously crazy about Claire; I think he likes her and has just recently discovered some romantic/physical chemistry with her, and he wants to see where that leads. 'Cause, hey, who wouldn't want to see where that leads?  It can lead to amazing places.

In retrospect, I suppose the wedding could be considered their first date. I've got a feeling that they will come to see it that way. That said, I'm looking forward to their first date as a couple; I'm wondering how many third wheels and unexpected irritants Jeph will work in to one evening?
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After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!
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ReindeerFlotilla

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The only person who is truly immune to her intimidation effect is Pintsize.
You sure about that? He's received more than a few dents by her hand.

Pintsize is immune to intimidation. Not damage.


Ok, you're a fanboy ;-)  Enthusiasm leading to good critical thinking and writing should always be welcome, though. 
Thanks! I'll try not to put my foot in it.
After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Yes. Yessss!

HES

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They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Yes. Yessss!
blushing in little hatssss
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