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Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*

122 (56.7%)

Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.

32 (14.9%)

Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes

7 (3.3%)

A solid week of Steve eating cereal

9 (4.2%)

Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives

45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 195

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04

[grouchygizmo]

DORA'S FACE IS TOO PRECIOUS.

I love her.

[Neko_Ali]

And nobody at all should be surprised by any of these reactions...

Now I go sailing off into the weekend.

[grouchygizmo]

Why surprised? Look at their group- full of different types of people. You have straight people, gay people, bi-sexual people, people who like anime a little too much, people who don't like to be touched, someone who punched a robot for no good reason... it seems like this group would be okay with whatever goes on, honestly.

[MooskiNet]

Okay, so bean plating time:  He's changed the font of the title for the first time in seems like forever.

Also, maybe it's just me, but he's gotten REALLY good at an expressive single line smile.

Lastly, having other characters talking about this seems to have ruled out the possibility of this being all a dream, which I was still sorta worried about.

You folks have an awesome night.

[Grismandir]

Horrible busy work week, haven't even taken time to read whole thread, just wanted to drop by and

\○/     squeeeeeeeee    \○/

(Actually, I'm really more of a 'yessssssss' like the Tequila Monster, but I'm making an effort to be less creepy)

[greywolfe]

lol@Tai, voice of the forums.

[Zebediah]

Tai is one of us.

ONE OF US

ONE OF US

[eschaton]

Jeph is really into drawing pursed lips lately. 

[SubaruStephen]

Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.

Dum spiro, spero.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by schoolboys to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 

In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.


Also, Clairaten: Sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeee (first time I've ever said that, because "YES!!!" (fist pump) simply doesn't cut it)

[SubaruStephen]

Tai is one of us.

ONE OF US

ONE OF US

Gooble-gobble
Gooble-gobble

[Smallest]

I wanna know what Dora told Tai. I mean, if she said what Faye said, Tai's just hearing second-hand news about something that maybe happened, and the response doesn't go with that.

[AprilArcus]

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.

We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"

[Aziraphale]

Can we then agree to disagree instead of making this a storm in a glass of water?

You mean I'll agree to keep getting upset when people casually misgender me, and you'll agree to keep calling people "ridiculous" when they express dismay at being casually misgendered?

Yes. It happens to me. I don't mind.

http://9gag.com/gag/aBQgd3O

And that's fine... when it's applied to you, and if you're alright with it. Point is, you don't get to pick and choose how your words affect others, or to tell them whether or not they should mind.

[TieDyeKat]

Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.

[valkygrrl]

Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.

And THAT is why Tai is crazy about her.

[AprilArcus]

I use dude, mate, guy, bloke and even boy as a unisex word. Not gender neutral, but unisex, because usually, where I work and teach, men are majority and we see women as human beings, therefore, we integrate them in our language. It happens to me when I go to a place with a majority of women; they tend to see me as a big-stuff lifter, but still I'm a human being, and I don't mind if they refer to me, when I'm in the group, as «girl». I didn't mind when, in Italy and Germany, the feminine plural was used for our group of students, even if we where 25 guys and 10 girls; it's the way it is.

I have a degree in formal linguistics and I am familiar enough with the process of language change to know that the scenario you describe - semantic leveling from marked masculine terms to unmarked neuter terms - does not happen in reverse. That is, pairs like "actor"/"actress" level towards the masculine "actor", but feminine words like "stewardess" are never extended to include males, they are replaced with terms like "flight attendant". I recommend Deborah Tannen's essay, "Marked Woman, Unmarked Man" for an introduction to this topic.

Using a male designator for a person of unknown sex is hurtful for several reasons:

• It embodies a trend where male is seen as default, unmarked, suitable for mass application, and female is implicitly not. Note that while three people referred to me with "default male" terminology, nobody used "default female" terminology. This is because default female terminology does not exist in our language as it is practiced.
• It demonstrates disregard for my female identity. The people referring to me as "man", "son", or "mate" clearly did not even take the time to parse my plainly feminine username (which is my real, legal name).
• It demonstrates disregard for my transgender history. Being referred to with masculine terminology can be particularly upsetting for trans women, due to our history of having to fight against public misperception.

This is not an absolute fact of our language, though, and by introducing gender neutral speech into your everyday vocabulary, you have the power to break this pattern.

So:

Comic Strip Critic: Thank you very much for recognizing that you'd hurt my feelings and apologizing right away.

Ustrello: It is unfair of you to force someone into a detailed argument when they've stated that they don't have the emotional stamina for it, just to be referred to respectfully. I hope you'll think hard about how you handled yourself in this conversation and change your behavior in the future.

vforvancouver: There is no female plural in German, so your assertion that you tolerate feminine forms of address in that language rings empty. German has a single plural used for all groups, mixed or otherwise. It resembles the feminine form in the nominative, accusative and genitive cases, but it is distinct the dative.

[greywolfe]

Dora has a MASSIVE index finger.

And THAT is why Tai is crazy about her.

That's her dissertation finger.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

There goes Tai, speaking for a large segment of the forum. 

I just hope they don't vocally read too much into things the next time they see one of them. That could be awkward, given that this may be one of the first relationships in the QCverse that's actually taking things slow and easy (for the moment, anyway).

[cesariojpn]

Why surprised? Look at their group- full of different types of people. You have straight people, gay people, bi-sexual people, people who like anime a little too much, people who don't like to be touched, someone who punched a robot for no good reason... it seems like this group would be okay with whatever goes on, honestly.

I dunno, even though the group is open in many ways, there are ways it can be closed.

Aside from family (Clinton, "Mother" Augustus), only two people (AFAWK) know Claire is Transgendered (Marten & Emily). It's a safe bet to assume that the rest of the group thinks Claire is a "biological" female.

Faye probably assumes as much given recent events (Unless Jeph drops a bombshell......). How she is about transgendered folks is up in the air, seeing we can't assume from the facts that she has a Lesbian Sister and works with a Boss that is in a Lesbian relationship. While she is front the south, she does mention that she hates the religious attitude of the place.   

Dora/Tai also are up in the air as well. Tai may be a Lesbian and probably LBGQT (or however it's acronymed....) aware/friendly, it's kinda hard to gauge if she does know or how she would react. Dora.......I dunno. She's gone wishy-washy with her relationships, and has made some SERIOUS blunders relationship wise, so I wouldn't put it past her to completely fuck up this situation somehow.

The rest is up in the air.

Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!!

[SubaruStephen]

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.

We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"

Right, but "they" being a plural word lacks personal connotation (in your example, the "they" could apply to either the dentist or the dentist's office as an organization), it's similar to using "one" instead of "I" or "you", and that's why I suggested it, because English lacks a non-gendered, 3rd person, personal descriptor.

English is mostly made of words "borrowed" words, I don't see why we shouldn't assimilate hän (him/her) and hänen (his/hers), I know they won't  be used in everyday conversation, but it could make it easier for inter gendered people to describe themselves, or when online when you're not sure about fellow forum members.

[AprilArcus]

Hell, I think that the only other person in the entire comic that could even "know" Claire is Transgendered......would be Veronica Vance!!

I doubt it. In the original version of this arc, Veronica joked about Claire and Marten having children together. Which, if she'd suspected Claire was trans, would have been beyond the pale in cruelty.

[Netrunner]

I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

[AprilArcus]

English is mostly made of words "borrowed" words, I don't see why we shouldn't assimilate hän (him/her) and hänen (his/hers), I know they won't  be used in everyday conversation, but it could make it easier for inter gendered people to describe themselves, or when online when you're not sure about fellow forum members.

There are a plethora of "third gender" pronouns that already enjoy some non-standard use in the English of queer circles, such as sie/hir, xie/xir, ey/em. hän could certainly join them, but would probably meet with the same degree of mainstream success. Meanwhile, "singular they" has seen some degree of adoption by news media as a gender-neutral option.

[iandanger]

Thanks. Perhaps when I get better I may align with April.

Dum spiro, spero.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by schoolboys to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently.

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address.

'Mate' is the accepted Australian form of casual greeting 

In American English it would be appropriate to refer to a mixed gender group as as "you guys", but it would be extremely weird to address a woman as "a guy I know". I assumed "mate" it similar, since in popular media I have only ever seen it used to address single men or groups, never individual women. But I am not a speaker of Australian English, so if you are, I'll take your word for it.

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.


Also, Clairaten: Sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeee (first time I've ever said that, because "YES!!!" (fist pump) simply doesn't cut it)

Apparently here in Baltimore among the yout's a neuter pronoun developed, "yo." I use it sometimes but as a youth slang in a regional dialect it is of limited utility.

[Smallest]

Dora/Tai also are up in the air as well. Tai may be a Lesbian and probably LBGQT (or however it's acronymed....) aware/friendly, it's kinda hard to gauge if she does know or how she would react. Dora.......I dunno. She's gone wishy-washy with her relationships, and has made some SERIOUS blunders relationship wise, so I wouldn't put it past her to completely fuck up this situation somehow.

Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.

[Mojo]

It occurs to me that Faye may be suspecting sexy shenanigans without knowing that Claire is trans... I wonder if that means anything...?

 

[AprilArcus]

Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.

You would think that, but trans feminine and trans masculine crowds tend to have very different things going on, especially at a school like Smif, where (if it's like Smith College) one group (trans guys) are very accepted, and another (trans women) are viewed with open suspicion. Tai could easily know half a dozen trans guys and not a single trans woman, and be completely ignorant to the issues particular to Claire's situation.

[CUBErt]

I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Jeph is going to make Pintsize the voice of reason entirely to fuck with us.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Pintsize likes his vulgarity to take effort. I think on this, he'll be (surprisingly: Marten would probably wonder if Pintsize got overwritten by a reasonable AI) good about this.

[iandanger]

First post here, but I've been lurking for a week or so, long enough to realize that American English needs a word like "hän", a Finnish word than means both "him" AND "her". That would go be a handy way to avoid debates from becoming heated arguments.

We have it - you can use the plural pronoun "they" to refer to a single person of indeterminate gender, i.e.
A: "I have an appointment with a new dentist tomorrow"
B: "Oh wonderful, how did you find out about them? / what's their name? / are they covered by your insurance?"

While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.

[eschaton]

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

IIRC, pintsize has been...involved...with a male robot who he thought was female because he was pink.  Though he flipped out at the time, he seemed more upset that the dude cut off contact with him than it was a dude.  So I think he wouldn't tease Marten about it or anything.  He's pretty open minded. 

That said, I do expect some uncouth comment about wangs. 

[McFace]

I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".

[Aziraphale]

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Pintsize has also shown surprising insight once or twice (here, I'm especially thinking of his conversation with Momo about the roles of Anthro PCs in their relationships with their companions). It'll be interesting to see which Pintsize shows up the next time he's around Claire and Marten as a couple.

Tai talked about having a female-to-male friend, and also that she used to bind her chest, and has no problem with Marten briefly making sure he's been using the right pronouns, so I imagine she'll be unaffected.

You would think that, but trans feminine and trans masculine crowds tend to have very different things going on, especially at a school like Smif, where (if it's like Smith College) one group (trans guys) are very accepted, and another (trans women) are viewed with open suspicion. Tai could easily know half a dozen trans guys and not a single trans woman, and be completely ignorant to the issues particular to Claire's situation.

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".

Personally, I think the shape of Pintsize's vulgarity on this will end up in the "too helpful" category. He'll just weird out Marten instead of being stupidly offensive.

[AprilArcus]

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERFs tend to belong to an older generation, and operate in blatantly malicious ways. Tai and her friends are more likely to just be ignorant - they may not even know that their college's admissions polices effectively bar trans women from applying as undergraduates.

[GarandMarine]

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently

I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender. Albeit I hang out with a lot of sailors and Marines who are my legit ship and mess mates, but "mate" is a serious reach.


In other news I like Tai's response. You can heaaar the squeeing

[valkygrrl]

[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

[Netrunner]

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".

I agree that no one will say anything malicious, but as I've said earlier in the thread, it could bring up some of Dora's old insecurities. (there was a comic about her asking if Marten would be happier if she had a wang.) I agree that if anyone, it's be Marten's male friends that might raise an eyebrow. Again, a perfect opportunity for Marten to show some initiative and take a proper lead in the conversation.

Also, don't assume everyone from 4chan is a terrible person.   

[AprilArcus]

I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender.

What am I demonstrating? I'm saying that I haven't seen "mate" used to refer to individual women in pop culture. If that's really how you talk in your vernacular, then obviously that's how it is for you, and whatever.

[Aziraphale]

I was just thinking that it might be a little weird if everyone is super accepting once the secret's out. I think this is a perfect opportunity to show how tasteful questions should be asked and what healthy boundaries and whatnot should be set.

Also. I just remembered. Pintsize will eventually find out. It'll be vulgar, but he could be the voice of the uneducated masses. It could be a great opportunity for education on the subject as a whole. I realize it would be a bit on the preachy side, but seeing from the way some of the conversations here have gone, it might be nice to have a popular comic have that discussion. Just my two cents for the moment.

Which characters do you think would have any sort of issue? I feel like I majority of the other males will fall into the "not really understanding" category (maybe not Angus, but we don't really know). I think Marigold may also say something. That being said I don't think anyone will say anything malicious.

I'm not sure about Pintsize. I don't think he has ever been "the voice of the uneducated masses", more like "the voice of the scum of the internet *cough*4-chan*cough* while still being kinda likeable".

The only guys I see being wild cards in that respect are Steve and Jimbo (at least as far as regular/semiregular characters go). As far as the female characters, there are more people whose reactions we can't be sure of, mostly because we see so little of them (Penelope and Cosette both come to mind), or Emily (not because Claire's trans -- Emily already knows and is cool with that), at least if she is/was interested in Marten.

TERFs tend to belong to an older generation, and operate in blatantly malicious ways. Tai and her friends are more likely to just be ignorant - they may not even know that their college's admissions polices effectively bar trans women from applying as undergraduates.

Did Claire do her undergrad there, though, or is she just doing her grad work there?

For the record "Mate" is not a gendered form of address. Originally it  was mate or gemate in Middle Low German, "One eating at the same table" or "messmate" and referred to a Companion, coming into usage around the 14th century.

The word "bad" originates from Old English "baeddel" meaning "effeminate" or "hermaphrodite", and acquired its current meaning in the same way that "gay" is now used by grade schoolers to indicate something of low quality. Despite its origin as hate speech, I use the word "bad" in my everyday lexicon, because it would be absurd to claim that the 14th century definition of a term informs the way that it is understood in colloquial usage. So any argument that "mate" was gender-neutral seven centuries ago does little to demonstrate that it is gender-neutral currently

I await your demonstration of the feminine of "mate" as someone who uses it day today and has friends who use it day to day mate is perfectly applicable to any gender. Albeit I hang out with a lot of sailors and Marines who are my legit ship and mess mates, but "mate" is a serious reach.

I'm not a linguist (just a garden-variety English major), but context matters. After all, you can refer to your spouse as your mate, but when you refer to, say, a BM3 as a mate, I don't think someone's going to mistake them for your spouse.

[Aziraphale]

[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

Wasn't aware that was a slur...? Which part of it, exactly, is inaccurate, much less offensive? I'm asking because I've honestly no idea.

[GarandMarine]

Usually not, but any and all of my friends are mates. Along with just about any one else.

Is TERF really a slur now? It's a description... Trans Exclusionary Feminist... Missing the R but whatever.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs in use relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.

[McFace]

I agree that no one will say anything malicious, but as I've said earlier in the thread, it could bring up some of Dora's old insecurities. (there was a comic about her asking if Marten would be happier if she had a wang.) I agree that if anyone, it's be Marten's male friends that might raise an eyebrow. Again, a perfect opportunity for Marten to show some initiative and take a proper lead in the conversation.

Also, don't assume everyone from 4chan is a terrible person.   

Damn I really hope Dora does not ask anything even remotely like that now. I'd be hella pissed.

[AprilArcus]

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

TERF is not a slur, it is an acronym for Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminist. It offends me (as a feminist) that TERFs call themselves feminists, since their actions and politics are openly transmisogynist, but like, members of hate groups don't get to petulantly demand that the people they oppress facilitate their rebranding efforts.

[valkygrrl]

[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.

The word gets thrown around so casually and used to silence legitimate disagreements. When it moves from being applied to scum like Cathy Brennan into being applied to anyone who argues that gender is a social construct it becomes a slur.

[Arkantos]

While this is considered acceptable in some settings, it is against many style guides and considered incorrect grammar in newspaper publishing and many academic settings, something I find very annoying. It's also not functionally a neuter pronoun, ideally one would been added, but xe, shim etc haven't caught on as of yet. Apparently in Great Britain it is much more accepted than in the US.

Language evolves. The other new pronouns sound, at least to me, odd. Why invent a new pronoun convention when we can just adapt an old one by adding new meaning?

[AprilArcus]

The word gets thrown around so casually and used to silence legitimate disagreements. When it moves from being applied to scum like Cathy Brennan into being applied to anyone who argues that gender is a social construct it becomes a slur.

TERF means a self-styled feminist who believes that trans women are not "really" women. That's it.

[PLGRN8R]

I have resolved to re-read QC in its entirety.
Wish me luck, ladies, gents, and everything in between and/or variations thereof. I'll see you on the other side of the Feels Express.

[Aziraphale]

[

Lemme guess: flak from TERFs?

TERF is a slur maybe you could use some other term? biological essentialist?

If "TERF" is a slur, then so is "bigot", and we'll rapidly be out of words to describe people who think some people are less human than others. Me, I'd like to live in a world where the only slurs relate to people's attitudes toward the humanity of their fellow people.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Well, that, and I don't tend to worry as much about the feelings of people who spend their time denigrating other people, as well as denying either their existence or right to exist (referring here to TERFs, not to valkygrrl, whose motives and alignment I don't known and so won't impugn).

ETA: I'm referring specifically to the likes of Cathy Brennan, valkygrrl. I don't disagree with the idea that gender is essentially a social construct; I disagree with dehumanizing people (to say nothing of the fact that their rhetoric and actions discredit feminism generally, to the point where I wonder if they were either influenced, or  invented, by the "Men's Rights" crowd).

I see it as an accurate description, and certainly wouldn't use it as a slur. However, with that being said, if my using the term offended you, please accept my apologies.