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Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*

122 (56.7%)

Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.

32 (14.9%)

Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes

7 (3.3%)

A solid week of Steve eating cereal

9 (4.2%)

Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives

45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 195

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04

[Orkboy]

. Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

Very true.  I listen to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man when I need to get psyched. 

[MooskiNet]

Ocean Rain is a hell of a record.

True facts from Mooski:  First makeout was in a 72 Mustang with Killing Moon playing on the tape deck.

Ah, memories.

[Thrillho]

Ocean Rain is a hell of a record.

True facts from Mooski:  First makeout was in a 72 Mustang with Killing Moon playing on the tape deck.

Ah, memories.

Was the living proof at your finger tips?

(Wrong song)

[DSL]

MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!

Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?

(Also, the bird in Sig's scenario ... is it an unusually articulate dickcissel?)

[Platypodes]

I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397

2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.

Yes, I suspect it's one of those awesome vintage stores with the great big rack of evening wear and prom dresses dating from the '50's through the '80's.  She probably got the pink dress in 2791 there (it could be an '80's prom dress), and the Smiths shirt.

I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them.  But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.

[Aziraphale]

MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!

Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?

(Also, the bird in Sig's scenario ... is it an unusually articulate dickcissel?)

For some reason, I think that if Yelling Bird sang, he'd sound like a dyspeptic Tom Waits.

[Sig]

MOOOOM!  Sig's being sour!

Did a pun of that caliber occur to you semi-automatically?

Wow, I did not even catch that one. Nice!

[Jhago]

Argh, I want to read everything, BUT IT'S SO DAMN MUCH! And interesting too, which make it harder... Trans thread  in the Serious Stuff section alone taunts me with those 60+ pages, I just bookmarked it and I'll read at my own leisure...

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY! I've been shipping Marten and Claire hard ever since his reaction to her being trans. Can't wait to see everyone's reaction, especially Hannelore's. That "squee" will kill someone this time.


Should've come out of lurking earlier though, seems like the forums will be somewhat chaotic for some time.

[cesariojpn]

Question: Marten was drunk before and the feelings boiled up during this. I have to question whether or not he is acting out of his own sober self, or from the alcohol-induced act. He says the night before was "natural" but still, he was technically inebriated. 

[Finwolven]

Being slightly inebriated does not make you somehow not-be you. And thinking about things does not have to take a century's worth of angst and indecision.

Why is there such a great amount of people going 'no way could Marten actually have feelings for Claire!'?

[Platypodes]

I definitely wondered about that when he was drunkenly snuggling Claire.  But now he's thought it all over while sober, and kissed Claire while sober, and his conclusion is that he likes her and feels natural being with her. 

Can't wait to see everyone's reaction, especially Hannelore's. That "squee" will kill someone this time.

Oh man, I never thought of that!  *gets out the earplugs*

Welcome, Jhago!

[Netrunner]

Very true.  I listen to Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man when I need to get psyched.

that's funny, because every time I think of that song, I think of this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgpnlLz7WR0 Which is still older than me by a handful of years.

[iandanger]

I think the most important question of all is this:

WHERE does Claire shop?! I mean, girl, you got some interesting clothes!!

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2791
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2397

2397 shows her in the fitting room of a clothes store. As far as we know, she only bought one of those dresses.

Yes, I suspect it's one of those awesome vintage stores with the great big rack of evening wear and prom dresses dating from the '50's through the '80's.  She probably got the pink dress in 2791 there (it could be an '80's prom dress), and the Smiths shirt.

I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them.  But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.

For whatever reason I always thought it was Kaylee's dress from Firefly:

[HES]

I hope Claire finds a chance to wear one of those big fluffy ruffly dresses somewhere; she does seem a bit fascinated with them.  But maybe not a pink one with her red hair.

Unless she's going to a Firefly convention. (Ninja'd- iandanger, that's because it is)

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!

I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.

[FunkyTuba]

sheet cake made of victory and talking owls [line stolen... I'm not that witty]

Please tell me what this is from?

[Orkboy]

Jesus H Tapdacing Christ, 20 pages by Wednesday. 

[Thedrd0nna]

Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

Exactly! I'm 28 and I listen to Paul Simon (his old, good stuff like There Goes Rhymin' Simon and Graceland), ELO, Supertramp, and Scott Joplin. I'm convinced my love of ragtime was instilled by a childhood spent with Super Mario Bros.

[MooskiNet]

Jesus H Tapdacing Christ, 20 pages by Wednesday

Hrm; the wine's affecting me early - I thought this was an answer to FunkyTuba's question, and I was like "I've never heard of that book, but I bet it's by Terry Pratchett."

Edit:  Left a 't' off of 'Pratchett'

[Orkboy]

I would read the hell out of that book. 

[Rghfrgl]

So, what for Thursday/Friday?

There might be one more Claire & Marten strip, but it seems a pretty good time to cut off, although I wouldn't mind a cute mother/daughter strip. First dates and angry brothers can come later.

So, probably a one shot gag comic then another story. I'd kind of like to go to Angus and Faye. I'm kind of neutral on Angus(Hasn't shown a lot of personality for quite some time), but this story has been hovering too long and now that Marten's spoken for it's safe to put Angus on the bus.

[Platypodes]

Things have been so sweet and fluffy for a while, I could see throwing in an angry-brother or nosy-mom moment for some comic relief before this scene closes. 

For whatever reason I always thought it was Kaylee's dress from Firefly: [jpg]

That is an alarming amount of ruffle.

And yes, it does look as if Claire's dress could be modelled on that.

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!

I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.

Yeah, nobody's objected to the newbies who came to squee.

[pwhodges]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh

Wow. I never got this reference. I always took it as an onomatopoeia of the sound someone would make to dismiss something as irrelevant or inconsequential. Example would be "Teh, whatever."

Add in that it can be read as "tee-shirt", and the multi-meaning roundabout is complete.  Sadly, though, no one has ever asked me for an explanation!

[AJ_]

Now, I created an account (like many, as it seems, and understandably not to many regular's delight) because FINALLY!

I don't think it was the quantity of newbies that was objected to, but the frequency of inappropriate questions coming from some of them.

Yeah, nobody's objected to the newbies who came to squee.

I subscribe to the "if you don't know what your talking about keep your mouth shut" philosophy

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

New people are good for the forum! They keep it alive.

[MooskiNet]

Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think.  Any others?

[pwhodges]

Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

[MooskiNet]

Was the living proof at your finger tips?

No, but she kissed me pretty cruelly, if I remember correctly.

More wine?  Mmmmmmb'okay.

[Finwolven]

I accidentally the forums, been lurking for a few days but made an account today to read the login-required bits.

Actually I just now found the forums link on the QC website, because it's tiny! I found the forum via accidental googling.

Oh, and I listen to many things older or as old as I am...

[Cypher]

Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

A friend of mine always used to go on about the Beatles while we were at school but I wasn't altogether convinced... a year or so ago I bought a compilation CD of their hits, and, you know, I really can see what he was talking about (although the compilation left out Strawberry Fields, which was a pity ¬_¬)!

[Netrunner]

Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think.  Any others?

I think I'd be crying too much to post. That's just so cruel. There's a lump in my throat just thinking about it. Someone in Marten's circle of friends having an issue with his new relationship would be an interesting dynamic, especially if it's someone we haven't seen in a while. (I'm looking at you, Third intern we haven't seen in forever and who's name I've forgotten.) Or even the relationship bringing up some of Dora's past insecurities.

[tragic_pizza]

So, waiting for 2809.  Not with quite the same levels of hope and anxiety of the last few weeks, but won't be surprised to be totally surprised, again

First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......

And thus Sig gives voice to my hidden terror...

[Aziraphale]

Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Sig's suggestion that this is all a dream would probably do it, I think.  Any others?

At this point, I don't buy it all being a dream. That's pretty contrived, so I don't see Jeph going that direction.

So what's left? Dora and Tai are fine, as are Dale and Marigold (barring some unforeseen circumstance, but with absolutely no lead-in, that'd be a huge stretch). That means two storylines are still left hanging: Faye and Angus, and Dora and Sven. The other shoe has to drop sooner or later on both of those, and depending on when/how it does, there's bound to be some discussion there. For that matter, shifting Marten and Claire to the library is also going to lead to discussion and speculation as to people's thoughts, motives, etc.

[ZoeB]

Natural rights were a rhetorical tool that built on ideas in the manga carta to justify ideas that vested power in the hands of the individual, because the natural right philosophers realized that the existing system was inefficient and harmful.

For copies of the Manga Carta, see Marigold. It's under her stack of "Magical Love Gentleman" issues.

[Platypodes]

Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

Emily admitting feelings for Marten would do it.

Oh geez, just imagine Marten: he worked out his perfectly scripted reply, decided he had the situation under control, and then the whole Claire thing happened and he forgot all about the possible Emily situation.  Then Emily pops up and asks him on a date, and he discovers that his script is now useless.

Emily: Would you like to go to the new burger place after work?  Like... just you and me?
Marten: Thanks, but I can't, it would be unethical to--er, uh, um, I mean.....
Emily: Oh, are you vegetarian?  That's okay, they have veggie burgers!

[Smallest]

Yeah.  I get the idea that Marten has been attracted to Claire, and likes her as a friend, but he's not really swooning over her.  He's more thinking "Well, I'll give this a shot, why not?"

Ignoring the rest of your post and the discussion of Marten/Claire as a pairing, I just have to comment on this. I hatehatehate the idea that someone has to be swooning over someone to be genuinely, non-passively, interested. If Marten had been completely visible about his interest in her (he had shown some inconclusive hints), I'd probably think it was creepy if anything. People can keep their feelings to themselves, and people can have strong feelings without being overwhelmed by them.

Nothing about that is said in the comic, and it's unlikely that jeph intends to address this.

Also, I'd say this has been addressed in comic (probably won't ever be word of god). Whether or not it was about her genitalia, there is a reason Claire said 'And you're okay with the fact that I'm trans?' and that Marten reassured her.

[Platypodes]

Yeah.... Considering that they haven't even had their first date yet, "I like you" is a perfectly good starting point; it doesn't have to be "ohmigod I'm crazy about you."

I don't think Marten is madly deliriously crazy about Claire; I think he likes her and has just recently discovered some romantic/physical chemistry with her, and he wants to see where that leads. 'Cause, hey, who wouldn't want to see where that leads?  It can lead to amazing places.

[Tub]

Okay, so if Marten and Claire setting sail for the horizon gets us to 20 pages by Wednesday, what would it take to double that by Sunday?  I mean, not necessarily what you'd *wish* for, but what do you think would do it?

The easiest way to get the readers to talk is to get them emotionally invested. And the easiest way to do that is straight up trolling. Catastrophic event out of nowhere. Angus gets the call, but right as he picks up the scene switches to May taking a shower. With Steve. Who's eating cereal. In Momo's shower.

Sure, those 20 pages would be filled with nothing but misdirected rage, but you just wanted them to be filled.

[Platypodes]

It'd be even more discussion if he were eating pancakes.

[Smallest]

It'd be even more discussion if he were eating pancakes.

True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.

[Rghfrgl]

First panel: Window with morning light and a bird chirping on the ledge.
Second panel: Claire waking up, blurry eyed, smelling pancakes then feeling crushing despair in her soul as she realizes......

Nono. Marten wakes up, goes into the living room "I just had a dream I confessed my feelings to Claire"

Faye: "Who's Claire?"

Dun dun dun!

[Platypodes]

True fact, when I was 9 I made a project about pancake cereal. I don't remember what the assignment was.

Pancake-flavored cereal?  Pancakes with cereal as an ingredient?  Cereal that's been run over by a steamroller?

[Zebediah]

Nono. Marten wakes up, goes into the living room "I just had a dream I confessed my feelings to Claire"

Faye: "Who's Claire?"

Dun dun dun!

No, it goes like this:
Marten: "Faye, I had this weird dream where I confessed my feelings to Claire."
Emily: "Who's Claire? And who's Faye?"

 

[MooskiNet]

In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.

[T]

Do you have any scientific source? Like published papers instead of stuff from random websites?

the articles cite their sources. Is there a reason you insist on seeing males and females as different rather than as people who are treated differently based on physical differences? Why do you wish to justify the stupid social expectations that put dolls in the hands of girls and blocks into the hands of boys instead of giving both to both?

There is no scientific source, only a book and people can write anything they want on their books.

Also I oppose to this because people are what they are and try to change this is no good. Sometimes a girl is born with a more masculine brain and a boy is born with a more feminine brain and many parents try their best to change it.

I know a brother and sister that was like this. Since they were very small the girl played and interested in more masculine activities and toys while the boy was the other way around to the dismay of their parents. They tried their best to make the girl girly and the boy macho but no matter how much nurture was offered she continued ignoring dolls and instead playing with cars and swords while the boy continued being delicate and social.

I don't know about sexual preference, they still haven't demonstrated nothing on these lines and brain type doesn't necessarily match with sexual preferences.

Some things are part of what you are and no amount of nurturing can change that. You don't make a gay guy start liking women by educating him to like women, or a lesbian become straight.

Why are you defining activities as masculine and feminine? Sure people for whatever reason can be inclined to interests. That doesn't make those interests male or female that doesn't make a brain male or female. If someone likes playing with dolls (I did and even now sometimes do, don't you judge me!) that doesn't mean the doll part of the brain is female any more than someone who likes swords (I did and do, again don't you judge me) has some male part of the brain. It is just a brain and you are trying to impose gender onto it. Why are you doing this?

And none of that means they haven't been, won't be, and can't be influenced by social pressure to take on or reject other activities. And your reaction is to sit here and impose gender on the behaviors they do show? Why why why why are you doing this? If someone doesn't fit into the pink or blue box their brain must be different? That's insulting not only to them not only to anyone who doesn't conform to every single cultural exception but to anyone who does conform to a society other than your own. ideas of what is properly masculine and feminine aren't universal you know? Your explanations would lead men in Saudi Arabia to assume American women must naturally have more masculine brains than Saudi women.  Do you want to claim that's the case?

Wouldn't it be better to say rejecting dolls is nothing more than a case of individual preference rather than masculine behavior

It is very simple. Some traits are more common in a certain group than others, this doesn't means that this trait is exclusive to this group, just that it is more common. Now why does this trait is more common? Many studies have shown that trait A is linked to factor B.

Gender differences in behavior is a common occurence in many animals, not just humans. Female lab rats exposed to masculine hormones during certain stages of intrauterine development demonstrated more masculine beheavior patterns during adulthood including the way they respond to stress. Humans are not special beings unaffected by nature's laws.

You clearly demonstrate a lack of scientific education. Nothing wrong with that. People outside the scientific field are not obligued to. But it would be nice if people learned the basics before they accept anything they read on the internet.

I defend that the same way that there are different hair colors and shapes there are people with different affinities and tastes and variety makes the world beautiful. Each person is unique from before birth and not a simple white canvas waiting to be painting by nurturing

Hormones in rats have what to do with the behavior of pre-pubescent children? In one breath you claim behavior is innate and in the next that its hormonal and I'm the one who doesn't know science? Is that because I have girl brain or because estrogen induced a love of strawberry shortcake dolls kept me away from the science books with all those big words?

Hormone exposure during brain formation inside the uterus affects the behavior of the adult both for rats and for humans.

I'm not saying anything about being or not fit for science. You lack in formal education. This is not something innate to the brain.

[Thrillho]

New people are good for the forum! They keep it alive.

This may be my fault due to the 'newbies don't get it' comment. I withdrew that comment anyway but it referred only to the trans issues. I am loving all the new joinees rolling in.

Music being older than us does not mean we don't listen to it.

I believe there are a few people younger than me who even listen to The Beatles! (Not to mention Bach or Beethoven.)

How many people younger than you do you hang out with Hodgy? Most people I know listen to older music. The few I know that don't occasionally listen to The Beatles have listened to them before and dislike the music - it isn't because it's 50 year old music.

[wiserd]

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women. Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.' He doesn't seem to have made any striking life changes. He didn't seem to have any particular connection with Claire, aside from it "feeling natural."

The only thing I can think of is that Martin likes to take care of people, and sees that opportunity in Claire, especially as he's her boss, but that's a long shot with little material support in the comic. Faye had issues with her dad's suicide. Dora had issues with past abusive boyfriends (and who knows what precipitated that.) So possibly Claire connects with that pattern somehow.

... still, it seems pretty out-of-the blue.

Warning - while you were typing 36 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Wow

[Thrillho]

I think Marten liked Dora and Faye more because they were hot girls in his proximity rather than him liking to be dominated. Claire feels natural where those two didn't.

[T]

Boy brain or girl brain is bullshit. And the science agrees.

Actually science disagrees with you. Popsci is not a valid scientific source.

There are male and female patterns meaning that there are patterns found more often in a gender than the other. The development of body parts is influenced by chemical signals like hormones since inside uterus and the brain is a body part.

There are studies based on girls who have been exposed to androgens before birth (due to some hormonal disfunction) and they are more likely to have male-typical interests.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf

Don't forget that humans are animals and that the brain is a body part like any other.

Your reply suggests belief in such a thing as male-centric interests rather than the patriarchy suggesting which interests are acceptable based on biology.  What that study so condescendingly calls male-typical play is actively suppressed in the female half of the population. Boys will be boys vs don't you want to be a good girl? You're ignoring how early and strongly cultural training starts and how deeply its ingrained not to mention how changeable it has been over the years.

I think as a reference you should use Cordelia Fine's excellent sceptical work on the subject. It shows just how much observer bias has historically existed regarding the sexual dimorphism of the brain, and the consequences therefrom.

The two extreme positions are:

* The Biologically Deterministic one. This observes (and historically manufactures from very little evidence) that the brain is sexually dimorphic, and then uses that to argue that females are inferior because biology, that all gendered behaviour is hard-wired, and in general a whole load of other paternalistic arrogant misogynist and nauseating pseudo-scientific drivel.

*The Social Constructionist one. This observes the awful, oppressive effects of the first, then reasons that the brain cannot be sexually dimorphic because that supports gender fascism and the dehumanisation of women, so ignores any evidence for it no matter how sound, and attacks anyone observing it, deeming them to be cruel oppressors trying to fool the public into going along with their nauseating and male chauvinist policies.

Of the two, the Social Constructionist one, despite its PoMo anti-scientific basis, is actually closer to reality than the first. 80% right. The second is 20% right. Both are significantly wrong, distorting any truth so it becomes useless.

Examples:

    Boys and girls behave in different ways and one of the stereotypical behavioral differences between them, that has often been said to be forced upon them by upbringing and social environment, is their behavior in play. Boys prefer to play with cars and balls, whereas girls prefer dolls. This sex difference in toy preference is present very early in life (3–8 months of age) [1]. The idea that it is not society that forces these choices upon children but a sex difference in the early development of their brains and behavior is also supported by monkey behavioral studies. Alexander and Hines [2], who offered dolls, toy cars and balls to green Vervet monkeys found the female monkeys consistently chose the dolls and examined these ano-genitally, whereas the male monkeys were more interested in playing with the toy cars and with the ball....


“Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia” Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005
    Data show that increased male-typical toy play by girls with CAH cannot be explained by parental encouragement of male-typical toy play. Although parents encourage sex-appropriate behavior, their encouragement appears to be insufficient to override the interest of girls with CAH in cross-sexed toys.

I don't know about you, but the phrase "sex-appropriate behavior" sets my teeth on edge. It reminds me of the days when I was a child, when girls were supposed to be secretaries, not secretaries of state, beauticians not bankers, and all the rest of that infuriating Patriarchal BS.

However.... biology plays a role. Instincts exist.

If I can quote myself: http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-many-sexes.html

Let's start with the idea that there are male and female brains. They differ anatomically, and these differences correspond to different stereotyped behaviours, regardless of upbringing. This is most obvious in girls who have CAH, masculinised brains, and a male preference in play patterns, even though they have a normal female upbringing.

Now that we've established that idea, that it's objectively observable.. we have to tear it down. It's just the first step in Wittgenstein's ladder.

The brain is a complex structure, not a simple one. Any particular individual can have a more masculine anatomy in one area, a more feminine anatomy in others. The sexually dimorphic features have considerable overlap. Within any one area, few are unambiguously male or unambiguously female. The difference is statistical. Moreover, in the higher brain, hormonal balance plays a role in changing the brain's physical anatomy. Treat a male with female hormones, some of his brain structures will feminise. The brain is plastic in many areas, experiences and social environment causes physical changes, and much of what we call "gendered behaviour" is as the result of arbitrary socially constructed factors.

OK, understood that? Now discard it, it's the second step on the ladder.

The brain is not homogenous; different parts have different effects, and while some parts are plastic, others are not. While much "gendered behaviour" is a social construct, some is not, and is remarkably resistant to change. This is most obvious in Transsexual people, whose neuro-anatomy is female in some areas, male in others, and corresponds to neither in yet others. When the Lymbic nucleus is feminised, typically feminine emotional patterns are found, and these lead to a feminine gender identity. When the Superior Parietal Lobule (SPL) is feminised as well - as it often is - the "body map" is for female primary and secondary sex characteristics - breasts, vagina etc - and any mismatch with reality causes immense distress.

This also explains such observed phenomena as "phantom limb syndrome", and the widely variable emotional response to hysterectomy or mastectomy. Also too the variable response to any natural masculinisation of a female-at-birth body due to 5ARD or 17BHSD syndromes, which can cause a superficial "natural sex change".

What this means is that a binary model of sex and gender is merely a rough approximation. A better one is a trinary one, with male, female, and bigendered (approximately 1/3 in each category). But that still doesn't capture the multi-variance and fuzziness of the situation adequately. A small percentage won't fit either model, or indeed, any such gross over-simplification.

References (to substantiate my assertions):

Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. - Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia” Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005

Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure by Pol et al, Europ Jnl Endocrinology, Vol 155, suppl_1, S107-S114 2006

Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: “How Does One Know if One is Male or Female?” M.Diamond Sex Roles (2006) 55:589–600

Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. Cohen-Kettenis PT. Arch Sex Behav. 2005 Aug;34(4):399-410.

Thank you, You did a better job at being understandable.

[Mr_Rose]

In all seriousness, my worst nightmares have never been about being chased, ghosts or monsters - they've always been dreams where I woke up nearly in tears because I met the love of my life in the dream and woke up to reality.

Sounds like you got a succubus infestation there boss. Right nasty one too. No worries though, we'll soon get that sorted. Just so happens we got a fresh batch of succu-bane in last week too, so I won't have to mess around with the dosages either. Now, will that be cash or souls?

[FunkyTuba]

On the subject, do we have a canon age for Marten? My head-canon has always been something about this:

• Dora is the oldest regular - No older than early 30s; probably 29-31;
• Marten, Faye, Angus & Hannelore - 25-29 range;
• Everyone else is in roughly the Augustus kids' age range - 21 at the youngest to 25 at the oldest;
• Sam holds the record at the moment as the youngest biological character at 13;
• We know that Jim, Veronica and Henry are all in their mid-50s (Veronica being explicity stated to be 56, IIRC).

Possibly answered already, and not quite canon, and 3 years old but Jeph has spoken on this in the past:

From Jeph's Tumblr 3 years ago:

How old are all the characters?

Hanners and Marigold are only 21 or 22, Marten and Faye and the bulk of the cast are 24-25, Dora’s 26, Sven’s 27, etc etc etc I have a million characters

Claire and Marten are just about the same age.