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Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*

122 (56.7%)

Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.

32 (14.9%)

Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes

7 (3.3%)

A solid week of Steve eating cereal

9 (4.2%)

Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives

45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 195

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04

[Rghfrgl]

Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.

If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.

[hakko504]

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
What?!? I haven't started writing yet and I already get a warning?


Anyway, I'm amazed of how much though some people put into their posts here. I can only attribute it to the quality of Jephs writing, because so many of us feels so strongly about his comic. Mostly because we love it, but also because he's a master of setting up things we never thought would happen, like Claire & Marten. He's been giving us near hits for so long (wedding arc, the party just before Claire's reveal)  I thought he was just giving us false leads that would eventually lead to both of them hooking up with others, but I'm very happy to be wrong.

It was a long time since I felt this emotionally invested in a work of fiction, to tell the truth. Maybe one reason is that we only get a little piece at a time, (one strip per day) that events that play out in a few minutes takes a long time to tell because of it. [Funnily enough I started thinking of a quote from Treebeard: "You must understand, young Hobbit, it takes a long time to say anything in Old Entish. And we never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say."]

Finally, congratulations Jeph on creating such a wonderful comic. I'll be waiting eagerly for more.



Oh, and I for got one thing:
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Why am I not surprised 

[USS Martenclaire]

Sadly if you try and squeeze a regular hat on Claire her hair poofs and it flies off.

If you try and put a tiny hat on Claire's head a squirrel pops out and steals it.

I kind of have this theory that Claire's hair is a semi-sentient and separate being to Claire herself. If Marten hadn't spent the previous evening give the hair scritchies, it would have sprung to life and devoured hin during the kiss.

[KOK]

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html

[anahata]

thanks AprilArcus for taking the time to archive crawl and find all those references.

Seconded. A well-researched post.

Nearly every one of those links led me to reading several following strips too, and I'd completely forgotten how much of a part Claire has played in the story, and how many hints there were that she liked Marten.

[FunkyTuba]

Hi, yet another Newbie here.
[...]
Her most masculine features (the angular jawline, the large hands, and the slight adam's apple) are all still there
[...]
I really hope that didn't cross the "do not talk about" line.  If it did, I apologize. 

Welcome!

I am not a mod, but I think that if it actually appeared/was drawn in the comic then it's probably fair game for discussion as long as you're polite. Posts get problematic when they start speculating about what's underneath the clothes, not the clothes themselves.

[NilsO]

Phew! For the first time, I have not read everything in a WCDT. There is just too damn much. I have some suggestions, but I guess this post will quickly drown in the posting hurricane:

• Stick to the point. This is a thread for discussing this week's comics, not everything else. Create a spinoff thread if you feel like it. While pancakes are relevant to this week's comics, we need not discuss everything pancakish.
• Avoid excessive quoting. It is possible to delete sentences that are not relevant in your quote.
• Some posts are just too damn long. They may be interesting, but the length just makes me lose interest. Try not to say everything at once.
• Do not post unless you contribute some new insight. "I agree" or just repeating previous arguments are just wasting our time.

[Rghfrgl]

Some posts are just too damn long. They may be interesting, but the length just makes me lose interest.

Strongly disagree. There's some great long posts. If you lose interest, well you lose interest. But I'd hate to see people stop making long well thought out posts because they saw one person complaining.

[BenRG]

Crack prediction for future:

The last time we saw Emily and Momo seriously interacting, they were discussing robotic religion in comparison with the human views of the same philosophical issues. Combine this with her fascination with Clinton's prosthetic and the fact that she's an IT/AI major... I wonder if Emily might be attracted to AIs and robots on some level. She may even understand them better than she does her own species!

So...

Emily x Momo?

[bhtooefr]

There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...

[BenRG]

There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...

Well, I apologise if I've overstepped any boundaries.

The serious part of my post is this: I've just re-read this strip and, apart from the Claire pun sideshow, I found Emily's conversation with Momo fascinating. Am I the only one who noted that cloud-cuckooland Emily has had one of her few on-page serious conversations with Momo and on the subject of AI metaphysics at that? I just wonder if she's one of those technically-oriented people who relates better to machinery than people.

In a world where AIs can look and act almost indistinguishable from humans, that could have some interesting side-effects that Jeph may choose to follow up if he wants to return to Momo's quest to be widely accepted as a real person in a future story arc. May would, of course, be the ideal side-kick in such a story but Emily oddly enough could also - The human who doesn't fit in with her own species.

[NilsO]

There's a reason why shipping is against the forum rules...

Unless it is OTT and clearly a joke, as in one of my previous posts (although I got reprimanded for that one as well).

[snubnose]

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html

Nah, this is about Doctor Who. Who wants to be attracted to somebody not liking Doctor Who ! Thats totally different than just taste in music.









P.s.: I'm only half joking.

[NilsO]

As far as I know, only Marten and Emily knows about Claire's trans* status (apart from her family, of course). The rest of the cast just assume she is an ordinary girl. Claire has made claire (pun!) that it is not exactly a secret, but she would prefer it not to become public knowledge.

Emily is not exactly good at keeping secrets (as shown here). There is a distinct possibility that Emily might "out" Claire to the others (probably by accident, not by malice). This will no doubt hurt Claire if it ever happens.

[BenRG]

If there's any sign in the last 600 strips that spells doom for this relationship, it's that Claire just doesn't like his music that much.

Such differences can ruin a relationship:
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.dk/2014/10/romantic-troubles.html

Nah, this is about Doctor Who. Who wants to be attracted to somebody not liking Doctor Who ! Thats totally different than just taste in music.

Claire definitely doesn't like heavy metal music but, so long as Marten doesn't insist on dragging her to loud concerts, that should be okay. Remember that Claire and Marten share an interest in some obscure local Indy bands; they bonded over one such band during one of their earliest interactions (although Claire was rather defensive as she often was at the time). So it is possible that they share some artistic tastes in music, just not in the sort of music Marten plays.

That said, I can see Claire, as the loyal girlfriend, suffering through Deathmole's first concert, mostly because I can see her being daring and squeezing into a leather waistcoat and trousers (believing that to be the uniform of the day, based on a half-understood off-hand comment from Hannelore). Naturally, she finds herself surrounded by more conventionally-dressed alternative rock fans.

"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"

"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"

"Whoa! Lucky dude!"

Naturally, it will be when she is in that get-up that Clinton catches up with them and accuses Marten of 'corrupting' Claire; she objects, loudly, and one of the hall's bouncers takes this as a license to throw Clinton out of the venue for trying to start a fight. Things only escalate from there.

[ZoeB]

Emily is not exactly good at keeping secrets (as shown here). There is a distinct possibility that Emily might "out" Claire to the others (probably by accident, not by malice). This will no doubt hurt Claire if it ever happens.

Claire trusted two people. Marten and Emily. I trust her judgment. Also, I thought Emily's reaction was pretty cool.

She's enigmatic, and distinctly non-standard, but definitely likeable. A good person.

[cesariojpn]

Why is there such a great amount of people going 'no way could Marten actually have feelings for Claire!'?

Given Marten's track record with women (Moved clear across country for one, hooked up for "years" before being dumped for trust issues, had one till SHE moved clear across the country, one's still in space, and the other needs a shave and an infusion of zinc), he's not exactly the kind to be......lucky with them. I think history is gonna bite him back in the butt somehow.   

I know that this will harsh some people's squee, but does this seem at all in character for Marten? His past two interests were in fairly dominant women. Dora called him 'pretty vanilla.' He doesn't seem to have made any striking life changes. He didn't seem to have any particular connection with Claire, aside from it "feeling natural."

He's a switch personality. I blame it on his mommy.

[iandanger]

After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

Blame tapatalk, since I started staying home with my baby full time I haven't been on a computer in like 2 months, it's all phone all the time

[valkygrrl]

Given Marten's track record with women (Moved clear across country for one, hooked up for "years" before being dumped for trust issues, had one till SHE moved clear across the country, one's still in space, and the other needs a shave and an infusion of zinc), he's not exactly the kind to be......lucky with them. I think history is gonna bite him back in the butt somehow.   

D's grooming habits non-withstanding why does she need zinc?

[BenRG]

It is true that Marten has a history of becoming involved (in one way or another) with aggressive and dominant women and I do think that this can, in part, be traced back to Veronica's personality and the necessary emotional defences Marten would have needed to survive a childhood with a mother like that.

He does seem to have a naturally gentle and laid-back personality (sometimes the girls call it 'being passive'). Whilst he can and does respond if pushed too far, he doesn't seek confrontation. That said, I do think he is attempting (for better or worse) to take control of his life. Note that this isn't really affecting his personality (he's still got the Zen calm thing going for him) but it is affecting his decision-making. He's stopped waiting for others to take the lead, although he clearly sometimes needs liquid courage to take the metaphorical bull by the horns - I empathise with that.


[edit]
Wow... serious typo fixed there!

[cesariojpn]

D's grooming habits non-withstanding why does she need zinc?

Zinc helps with memory.

[iandanger]

I guess I missed the reference initially, I couldn't think of anyone in the comic that "needs a shave," now I'm sad and grossed out by the body hair policing

[MooskiNet]

It was sort of a weird way of putting D in a negative bucket with the rest of Marten's exes, and a bit of a reach as well.  Probably needs to reel that in a bit, but errbody should have a chance or three to recognize how their default responses to things can affect others.

With any luck, it'll just be 'oops, sorry about that,' and not 'dude, get a thicker skin.'

[marsman57]

I know there is a lot going on here, but has anyone commented on the fact that Mrs. A only wears glasses while cooking?

Maybe they are in fact just really stylish protective goggles. If so, what is the secret to her recipe!?!

Edit: While on the subject, I'm surprised that Claire didn't put her glasses back on when she got up. She doesn't strike me as the type to sleep in her contacts especially considering she's rarely (never???) worn them before this arc.

[Comic Strip Critic]

It was a long time since I felt this emotionally invested in a work of fiction, to tell the truth. Maybe one reason is that we only get a little piece at a time, (one strip per day) that events that play out in a few minutes takes a long time to tell because of it.

Once again, I'm gonna quote the legend that is Bill Watterson here, because I love the man and he speaks the truth: "A comic strip takes just a few seconds to read, but over the years it creates a surprisingly deep connection with readers... Even in a few panels you can develop characters and express an outlook on life as the months go by and before you know it, readers are seriously invested in the world you've created... Readers do form an emotional bond with your strip."

[mvdwege]

I think there's another dynamic in play here; one that is quite subtle, and possibly not a conscious plot by Jeph, but it is there nonetheless.

I talk of the issue of Marten's "passivity". I quote this because it is a social construct as much as anything else coming up in this discussion: the societal expectation of a man is that he will be driven to pursue a career, that he will be looking for success. Marten suffers because he does not live up to that image, he outright tells us; and many forumgoers are quite harsh on him, he should "man up" and start taking more initiative, showing more drive.

This social construct has been deconstructed multiple times in fiction, most famously in 'Death of a Salesman' by Arthur Miller and 'Hurry on Down' by John Wain. And whether subconsciously or consciously, I think Jeph is doing the same here.

While he is worrying over his attitude to life, Claire shows up and shows him the good side of his personality: the willingness to just enjoy the moment and judge things as he finds them. What Claire has to offer here is at least a partial validation that it is good to not be all driven all the time.

And as a parting thought: John Wain's book gives an out for the person that wants to opt out of the social rat-race: become an entertainer, a commentator from the sidelines of the rat-race. Isn't that just what Marten is working on? Maybe a relationship with Claire can give him that final push to throw away social expectations and fully throw himself into the band, or maybe even revitalise his attempt at music criticism.

[McFace]

That said, I can see Claire, as the loyal girlfriend, suffering through Deathmole's first concert, mostly because I can see her being daring and squeezing into a leather waistcoat and trousers (believing that to be the uniform of the day, based on a half-understood off-hand comment from Hannelore). Naturally, she finds herself surrounded by more conventionally-dressed alternative rock fans.

"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"

"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"

"Whoa! Lucky dude!"

Naturally, it will be when she is in that get-up that Clinton catches up with them and accuses Marten of 'corrupting' Claire; she objects, loudly, and one of the hall's bouncers takes this as a license to throw Clinton out of the venue for trying to start a fight. Things only escalate from there.

Could be a very interesting scene (with or without Clinton, if he came into it it probably wouldn't be at the bar or where ever they were playing but later).

I really think that having a good, stable relationship with Marten will help Claire with any body issues she may or may not currently be having. I do think that what you have suggested is a distinct possibility if she gets dressed up and goes somewhere with him. That coupled with her new relationship would make her a lot more comfortable and/or give her more confidence in general about her body image.

Of course the flip side of that could be she gets dressed up, sees a bunch of other pretty girls, maybe has a minor freak out and asks/demands to know why Marten thinks she is attractive.

[Thrillho]

Jesus Christ what the fuck is people's problem with Delilah having some body hair? I remember when Marten first hooked up with her and there were some incredibly alarming attitudes in the WCDT. It's only a stone's throw away from 'and one of them needs to lose some weight.'

Putting aside the ridiculous standards women are held to in the Western world and the fact that a woman is actually allowed to have enough agency to decide for herself how much body hair she does or doesn't need, a lot of people are, spoiler warning: into body hair.

I couldn't give less of a fuck how long a woman's armpit hair is. In fact, if it's longer, it holds more sweat, and I love pit stench on my lovers. This is probably more than you needed to know about me (although way less than any of the regulars know already) but I'm angry so hopefully, if D still 'needs a shave' in your view, I'll have grossed you out as much as your post grossed me out.

(click to show/hide)

This may be a bit of a nuclear response but this attitude made me furious when Delilah first featured and makes me furious now.

[Netrunner]

Heaven forbid a human being should have body hair! *gasp*

Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?

[jwhouk]

And here I thought he was referring to Bianchi International Airport...

[Somnus Eternus]

Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?

Funny you should ask - I just read this the other day!  (Never mind that the article is from 2009.)

http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/

[MooskiNet]

Where did all of that crap come from, anyway? Porn?

Changing social mores, I suppose.  I'm in my forties, and I'm not a big fan of hair below the ears on myself, though I recognize that there are (strongly) differing opinions on this.  Because of that, my preferences aren't something I would mention unless asked, and certainly not something I would point out that someone 'should' adhere to.

Porn may play a part, but I began shaving down in high school for swimming/wrestling, so it sorta pre-dates the move in porn.

[questionablydiscontent]

Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?

[Netrunner]

http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/

That was an enlightening read. Thank you! I guess I'm just a simple guy at heart, I don't care what's there as much as being with someone willing to let me discover for myself.

[Zebediah]

The expression on Claire's mother's face takes on a whole new meaning in light of panel 3 of this strip. 

[BenRG]

The expression on Claire's mother's face takes on a whole new meaning in light of panel 3 of this strip. 

Well, maybe Mrs A isn't an amoral witch who had long ago driven her daughter into a long-term emotional illness the way Dora's mother has...

[Fig]

http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/pit-stop-a-quick-history-of-women-shaving/2/

That was an enlightening read. Thank you! I guess I'm just a simple guy at heart, I don't care what's there as much as being with someone willing to let me discover for myself.

No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!

[Neko_Ali]

In regards to Claire and Clairemom's glasses... farsightedness is a thing. It's entirely possible that they only need glasses when they are reading things. Claire has been shown without glasses before, usually when going out at places she's not likely to need to read, like the wedding or the bar trip. She wears them when working because library, books. That sort of thing. Or maybe they are near sighted, but not so bad that they need to wear them all the time.

[BenRG]

In regards to Claire and Clairemom's glasses... farsightedness is a thing.

Let's face it - farsightedness and a girl who always wanted to be a librarian go together so automatically that it's virtually a trope!

By the way, regarding Marten and Claire - "The Rocker and the Librarian"? It sort of writes itself as a funny 'odd couple' story, doesn't it?

[grouchygizmo]

"Bro! Did you see that hot redhead chick in the leathers?"

"Yeah, the guys were saying she's the lead guitarist's girl!"

"Whoa! Lucky dude!"

BROS BROS BROS BROS

[Netrunner]

No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!

But are you a fellow NBN player as well?

[Fig]

No response but only to comment on your avatar: Wooo a fellow shaper!

But are you a fellow NBN player as well?

Started with NBN, now I'm playing with Jinteki.  Just got into the game about a month ago so I'm still trying to get a feel for the different identies.

[Netrunner]

There's a part of me that wants to see a 4th wall breaking comic for tomorrow with Marten and Claire still cuddling on the porch, and Claire saying something along the lines of being afraid it's only a dream. Marten would make some comment about how messed up that would be and the last panel would be them staring at the readers. (only to find out on Monday that Clinton is there and silently freaking out.)

[BenRG]

There's a part of me that wants to see a 4th wall breaking comic for tomorrow...

An alternate last two panels would be for Marten to say: "Yeah, maybe this is a crazy web-comic that got away from the artist's control and has taken on a life of its own!" The last panel is the two of them laughing whilst a stick-figure of Jeph is shaking his fists at them in impotent rage.

Meta, yes?

[Durmatagno]

After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Liiiiies! I had to find it again, but my majestic duck dragon has returned. Though Claire blushing is nice for some, I like my own stuff more.

[neurocase]

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#

[Fig]

After trying. Really trying.

I've concluded there are too many people who are good at discussions here that don't have an avatar for me to easily discern them from each other!
Get your collective shits together already! °_O

They'll all get avatars of Claire blushing like the rest of the forum and nothing will be solved!

Liiiiies! I had to find it again, but my majestic duck dragon has returned. Though Claire blushing is nice for some, I like my own stuff more.

That druckgon is awesome.  I can't decide on what I should use for my own.  So many choices it's hard to to pick one.

[iandanger]

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!

[Durmatagno]

I am not gonna dig through 20+ pages to find the quote of whoever said it (It might have been in another thread), but to whoever posited that the relationship between Claire and Marten would be difficult because of how different they are, and mentioned that "Claire is a geek, whereas Marten isn't" can I just present this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=134#

Oh my god I forgot Marten was an RPG/wargamer. My thousands of dollars and hours spent on my mini collection is vindicated by this moment. For the emprah!

Thank you Roll20 for free wargaming so long as I have the rules themselves. Never could afford to play these things, but I looove anything with strategy, from 4x to games like pandemic, or archipelago. Side note, I wonder if Claire is/was a RPG gamer, and might pull Marten back into playing.

[Aziraphale]

I think there's another dynamic in play here; one that is quite subtle, and possibly not a conscious plot by Jeph, but it is there nonetheless.

I talk of the issue of Marten's "passivity". I quote this because it is a social construct as much as anything else coming up in this discussion: the societal expectation of a man is that he will be driven to pursue a career, that he will be looking for success. Marten suffers because he does not live up to that image, he outright tells us; and many forumgoers are quite harsh on him, he should "man up" and start taking more initiative, showing more drive.

This social construct has been deconstructed multiple times in fiction, most famously in 'Death of a Salesman' by Arthur Miller and 'Hurry on Down' by John Wain. And whether subconsciously or consciously, I think Jeph is doing the same here.

While he is worrying over his attitude to life, Claire shows up and shows him the good side of his personality: the willingness to just enjoy the moment and judge things as he finds them. What Claire has to offer here is at least a partial validation that it is good to not be all driven all the time.

And as a parting thought: John Wain's book gives an out for the person that wants to opt out of the social rat-race: become an entertainer, a commentator from the sidelines of the rat-race. Isn't that just what Marten is working on? Maybe a relationship with Claire can give him that final push to throw away social expectations and fully throw himself into the band, or maybe even revitalise his attempt at music criticism.

All good points. Society at large values the "Alpha" male (a phrase I've never liked, and dislike all the more since the "Men's Rights" crowd got hold of it), and has no idea what in the hell to do with people who don't, prefer not to, or can't be bothered to, conform to that role. On the other hand, as pretty much anybody who isn't cis/white/male/hetero is likely to tell you, society hasn't quite got the hang of them, either.

I couldn't give less of a fuck how long a woman's armpit hair is. In fact, if it's longer, it holds more sweat, and I love pit stench on my lovers. This is probably more than you needed to know about me (although way less than any of the regulars know already) but I'm angry so hopefully, if D still 'needs a shave' in your view, I'll have grossed you out as much as your post grossed me out.

(click to show/hide)

This may be a bit of a nuclear response but this attitude made me furious when Delilah first featured and makes me furious now.

Kinda disappointed in your spoiler, Gareth. I fully expected a woman with some truly resplendent body hair.

Is it bad that I forgot Claire was trans before reading yesterday's comic? Do I need to up my trans-awareness?

I could be in the minority in saying this, but I don't think it's a bad thing. It's generally what happens when you start looking at the rest of someone, and their "otherness" recedes more into the background. If you're constantly conscious that you're hanging out with your gay friend (as an example) as opposed to, "It's great to hang out with so-and-so again. We really need to do this more often. And -- oh, Christ, is that another one of those toenail thingies in my burger? I hate when that happens," then you're kinda missing the point of that person. There are any number of accurate descriptors that you can attach to a person, but it's kinda like the blind men and the elephant -- you're never going to get the full picture if you just stop there.

All of which is a longish way of saying, as long as you're not willfully ignoring it (trans* and bi invisibility are things, after all), I wouldn't sweat it much, if at all.

Just my $.02 worth, mind you. I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong in no uncertain terms at least half a dozen times before sundown.