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This week on QC...

Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*
- 122 (56.7%)
Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.
- 32 (14.9%)
Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes
- 7 (3.3%)
A solid week of Steve eating cereal
- 9 (4.2%)
Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives
- 45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 195

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04


Pages: 1 ... 28 29 [30] 31 32   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 337375 times)

MooskiNet

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Agreed; I think at some point someone's gonna have to react in an ignorant (not hateful) way, and get corrected, and Cosette, goddess bless her, is just the klutz for it.
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Zebediah

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More in that vein:

Dale: "Cool!"
Marigold: "She is not. Come on, how gullible do you think I am?"
Pintsize: "I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON I LIKED HER!"
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FunkyTuba

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It has seemed likely to me for a while that there must be other people in the comic that know or have deduced but are waiting for Claire to trust them enough to tell them.

At the same time there might well be other characters that are passing as their identified gender1 but have chosen not to come out to anyone.

1 I am using this term having read http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.pdf and decided not to use the word "preferred". Did I chose the right term?
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Is it cold in here?

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Welcome to the internet, where being right is (much, much, much) more important than being nice.
Global Moderator Comment No, this is not "the internet". This is an artist's permanent floating party, reachable via the internet. The artist has said "the moral of my comic is that people should try to be nice to each other."
Global Moderator Comment (happy dance)A lot of people right now are handling emotionally charged discussions in a respectful way that is Good For The Forum. Some of you are going to get direct PMs full of thanks.
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MonkeyBusiness

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As you're going on about how you made this a teachable moment, you tell me you hope I can feel free to identify however I like, and then list "tomboy, butch, male, whatever suits you" - right after I explicitly said I identify myself as male, albeit within my own head.  I didn't mention anything about calling out anyone's behavior, just that I cannot - at this time - identify myself as male openly.

I chose my words incorrectly here. In trying to acknowledge your evolving situation, I used the word "identity" where I ought to have said "presentation". I respect your firm self-identification as a man, and I am sincerely sorry that my response read as dismissive.

Okay, one more post.

Thank you.  I really do appreciate that.  You didn't have to, and I really wasn't upset by it, but it does mean something, so thank you.
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HiFranc

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Sorry, if this has already been covered but I skipped a few of the pages.

It would be interesting to see how Claire deals with Tai's plans for them.  I agree with those that feel that this was natural for the two of them (a look at some of the earlier strips shows just how much time they spent together and Marten got jealous when Claire praised Steve's shoulders).  After all Marten tends to fall those he's around and Claire's been close to him for a while.

However, whilst I think they make a good pair, I do still wonder whether Claire's ready for a relationship.  Looking at these two strips, Claire showed an emotional response way outside of what would be expected in a similar situation.  Then again she has shown that she can be assertive and that I can't remember any other time when she felt she needed medication to deal with things.

Other people have pointed out that Marten and Claire's personalities are a better match than Marten and Dora.  The earlier relationship lasted about 15-18 months.  How long would Marten and Claire last?  I expect that it would be at least twice that.  If they settle down and have children (either their own or adopted) then I can see them being together for the long haul -- Claire would have a career and Marten would bring up the child(ren).  However, if there weren't any children then I strongly suspect that Claire's ambitious side would get frustrated with Marten's lack of get up and go.

Bringing it back to the present, I'm trying to work out how Tai would tell our happy couple that she knows.
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Francisco

Cochise

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I don't know if in anglophone countries you have this adage, but with our journalists the tell in every college "if a dog bites a persons this is not notice, but if a person bites a dog it is". All discussion about Claire anatomy is because she is trans, and it is as justified as some discussion about the kind of piercing Tai chose e.g. The privte parts of Dora or Marten otherwise are pure boring.

Some pages earlier there is a very schizophrenic post saying: "we have no right to discuss this private matters, because the characters are like real people, and it is disrespectful, even if this kind of conversation is common along they, because we are not really friends of they."

Geez, this is a comic with characters, not people we can hurt the feelings. The only sensitivity we should respect is of the forum members. Real people should be respected, and this is a very private matter to discuss about someone, so I never will talk so openly their genitalia, but with Claire would be ok, if there was not the fact this conversation disguise some people on the forum.

Also, as a not native: I hould agree with the Urban dictionary definition of "I ship it" and assume Tai knows Claire is trans?
Maybe she discovered in the selection of interns or something, she have some bureaucratic responsibilities in the library.
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Somnus Eternus

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Also, as a not native: I hould agree with the Urban dictionary definition of "I ship it" and assume Tai knows Claire is trans?
Maybe she discovered in the selection of interns or something, she have some bureaucratic responsibilities in the library.

Not necessarily - "shipping" isn't limited to homosexual relationships anymore (the way UD seems to want to define it).  Harry Potter in particular is springing to mind with this...it's evolved to include any sort of pairing of two fictional characters (or, you know, not fictional people, like bandmates and things).

Sorry. TL;DR - "shipping" can be done with any two people of any gender, so I wouldn't say that's a hint that Tai knows Claire is trans.  But I think it would be a cool plot point if she did and hasn't said anything out of respect for her.

EDIT FOR IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION: I realize that Marten/Claire isn't a homosexual relationship; I just meant that it's what UD seems to define shipping as, and that's how Cochise seems to be interpreting it, probably because of language barriers.
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AprilArcus

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1 I am using this term having read http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.pdf and decided not to use the word "preferred". Did I chose the right term?
Yup! and thank you for taking the time to look it up ^_^

Neko_Ali

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I rather don't think that Claire would be frustrated by Marten's lack of ambition all that much. One of the things she praised him on was his stability. In fact she got a bit upset when he mentioned that he might leave the library... for some pretty clear reasons now of course. So long as he doesn't get in the way of her ambitions, or become a leach if they move in together eventually I don't see this as a problem for her. She might nag him to wear ear protection when playing his music, but I don't think she'll get all upset if he never does anything major with his life.
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Gnomeybum

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Cochise, it isn't about the feelings of the characters, per se, it is about the fact that Claire is a representation of the trans community and so should be treated with the same respect that we would treat a non-fictional person. People who identify with her may be negatively affected by other people's invasive line of questioning.

Your curiosity does not, I'm afraid, trump other people's comfort and safety.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.

Jimbo and Steve, to a lesser extent, but I hope not for the same reason. It could be that Jeph is on a roll and we will find out soon. But he has a lot of other plots rolling, so he can easily back burner Claire's gender. Especially as it's less relevant than pretty much everything else about Claire.

If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.

Thinking about the argument that people have discussed their fiddly bits in the comic, it occurs to me that I haven't seen any character say anything on haven't heard from a real person. That said, I can't assume that what we've seen represents every time a QC character has pontificated on the subject. I'm sure it isn't, just as I am sure we haven't seen every bowl of cereal Steve's eaten.

Nothing says we are going to be privy to every example of that discussion. Everything says we're going to see exactly as much as is required to tell the story or sell the joke. If Jeph doesn't want to base the story on that, or tell a joke about it, that's the end of it. There's lots of stuff he can do that doesn't cover specifics.

KOK

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Correction: some aspects of sex are a normal topic of discussion.  I'm sure you wouldn't need to think very hard to realise that there are details you'd rather not talk about in the bus.

I wish. It seems that some people think that what they say into a phone is only heard by the person on the other phone. Or they behave as if they do.
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HiFranc

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Neko_Ali,

I hope you're right but I'm sure that a componant of the seeking of someone stable is the fact that she's worried about her future because, whilst she's ambitious, she doesn't know if she could pass everything and then gain/keep employment.  As she gains more confidence in herself and her abilities that fear would diminish.  If it's a small componant of how she feels then they are likely to survive a lot longer.

Another thing that counts against the relationship is that people rarely stay with their first love simply because they probably did not realise exactly what they want in a relationship and, as a people grow older, priorities change.  It means that people quite often drift apart.  This is the first time that she's been in a relationship.
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Francisco

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Geez, this is a comic with characters, not people we can hurt the feelings.

Cochise, it isn't about the feelings of the characters, per se...

In his old Q&A sessions on his tumblr and also periodically on twitter, Jeph sometimes chooses to, possibly with tongue in cheek, possibly somewhat seriously, respond to such prying questions by describing the character's opinions in the direct third person as if they were real.

Since this is his forum (and he is watching periodically) I think it's safer (and certainly more polite) to err on the side of respecting this perspective and keep in mind that to some of us, and certainly to Jeph these *are* real entities, even if they happen to exist only in Jeph's mind/creative universe/millieu/etc.
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Cochise

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Not necessarily - "shipping" isn't limited to homosexual relationships anymore.
Thanks. That expression, if I seen before don't cared to research any deep meaning.

People who identify with her may be negatively affected by other people's invasive line of questioning.
Your curiosity does not, I'm afraid, trump other people's comfort and safety.
And because of this I don't spoke any more of the matter. "Claire would be ok, if there was not the fact this conversation disguise some people on the forum."
But if we don't use a real justify the avoidance we only feed the debate. Invoking "decency", "respect" or other reasons to draw this line was  a exceptionalism, what called a lot of counter arguments, exemplifications, etc.
"Some people in this forum will be disguised by this discussion. Please don't." otherwise can be opposed only by really mean people.
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I've just checked and the TV Tropes page for Shipper On Deck has been updated with a link to today's page.
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Francisco

Cochise

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Quote
In his old Q&A sessions on his tumblr and also periodically on twitter, Jeph sometimes chooses to, possibly with tongue in cheek, possibly somewhat seriously, respond to such prying questions by describing the character's opinions in the direct third person as if they were real.
As a writer I have various characters I know as real people and in some way care a lot about they, so I could totally understand this sort of attitude, even more for character you are working for more than a decade. But my firs reaction was "How smart of him!".
Yeah, I have a very cold heart.
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marbledmurrelet

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974?
I think thats the one in relation to the topic at hand right now.
Yup, thanks! I kind of remember now...

If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.
I'd rather think if anyone has first-hand experience with trans chicks, it's Sven... And he seems pretty chill about everything. He's spoilt and self-absorbed, but I don't see anything malicious in him. Maybe it's just because he's kind of... a little bit... my type.  :oops: (Yeah, lucky me)

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BenRG

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If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.

I'd rather think if anyone has first-hand experience with trans chicks, it's Sven... And he seems pretty chill about everything. He's spoilt and self-absorbed, but I don't see anything malicious in him. Maybe it's just because he's kind of... a little bit... my type.  :oops: (Yeah, lucky me)

I agree that Sven isn't malicious; he's just so self-absorbed and self-centred that he doesn't really consider the consequences of his actions on others. Everything is about him all the time. Because of that, yes, I can see him hurting someone quite badly and being utterly horrified when others bring it to his attention; it wouldn't have been his intention it's just he never considered the outcome of his actions beyond his own narrow interests.

In the context of Claire, I can see him 'responding' to a Deathmole piece by writing a 'humorous' ditty about a trans-woman that Claire's friends immediately realise uses her as 'inspiration'. Dora... wouldn't be amused but I can imagine Sven would be shocked that anyone would be upset; it isn't as if he used her name or anything!
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Tub

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By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.

However, whilst I think they make a good pair, I do still wonder whether Claire's ready for a relationship.  Looking at these two strips, Claire showed an emotional response way outside of what would be expected in a similar situation.
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.

That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.

Wondering whether that makes Claire not ready for a relationship may be a bit harsh. Nobody's perfect, and she's seems more ready than most of us were for our first relationships.
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BenRG

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By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.

To me, 'outed' means 'becomes general knowledge'. I prefer to think of it as more people knowing than she realised (and not necessarily from indiscretion by people she trusted either) and this consequently becoming something that naturally affects and informs her everyday interactions with some people. I also think it might be a nice little reassurance to her that there are people in her social circle who do not judge her based on labels and she can trust to keep her secrets even though she never previously realised they knew said secrets.

FWIW, the reason I highlighted Tai earlier is because I think Claire needs a woman she can confide in when it comes to certain personal matters. Emily is too ditzy and, well there are just some things you can't talk to your mother about, no matter how good a person she is.
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swapna

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[edited for shortness]
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.

Kind of, but I think I see the problem here as well.  Her anxiety attack was brought on by the behaviour of her brother, who should know better. Either he's an assclown - which very well could be, but then why should she talk about very intimate stuff with him then? Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.
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marbledmurrelet

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By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.
I was wondering the same...
Claire being trans (IF that would become known at all, it sure doesn't have to)
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Cochise

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Sven was almost forgotten when he returned to say he loves Feye, then Dora decided to do a "svenctomy". I really can't see how he can make sufficient contact with Marten and Claire to do any harm.

And I'm not sure if anyone will be the "ignorant person". In the past few years we had a lot of "you probably will be scared by..." and the response was "this is totally awesome!". Our cast is very open minded. And if I must bet, the "ignorant person" will be ignorant to a third person, not directly to Marten or Claire. As I said, Jeph seems to prefer to show the good examples instead show the bad to confront them, and this reduce the chance of a "ignorant person" make some real damage.

And I just remember there was a comment I was willing to respond and forget. Some pages earlier someone said Claire was a lot of brave in telling Marten she was trans so earlier.

My opinion is she must have think Marten was making a move on her, and my opinion is she was right. He goes to her in a pretty "private" place, what Faye called to be good for makeouts when chased them out. Maybe he went just to make some company, without the intention to make a move, but I think if none of the distractions showed up, he must made it. So I don't know if was bravery or if was fear, sometimes courage is only the fear to run out. The medals don't discriminate, why should I? The point is not this.

The point is we had a theory about the slow growing of affection that leads to this week and maybe the right theory is about the slow growing of acceptance. Besides the affection really grew this whole time, the difference is "Marten was ready to made a move on Claire in the deck if she is cis, but take him a time (and some more affection) to accept she as trans".

The benefit of this line of thought is Marten is acting a bit more in character if it's true, because we move the point when he is ready to make a move from the couch of last week to the party, and when he noticed that was natural hug Claire and he was willing to kiss her, he decided to confess.

But this is only conjectures, a lot of them. Maybe tomorrow I change my mind again.
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Arkantos

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And I'm not sure if anyone will be the "ignorant person". In the past few years we had a lot of "you probably will be scared by..." and the response was "this is totally awesome!". Our cast is very open minded. And if I must bet, the "ignorant person" will be ignorant to a third person, not directly to Marten or Claire. As I said, Jeph seems to prefer to show the good examples instead show the bad to confront them, and this reduce the chance of a "ignorant person" make some real damage.

Showing the good example, in my own personal experience, does a lot more good than waiting for (or, in our case, showing) the bad example to correct it. I recently had a friend come out as gay to our relatively socially conservative group of friends, so I provided the good example of acceptance and affirmation rather than waiting for someone to say something harmful to him.
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there are just some things you can't talk to your mother about, no matter how good a person she is. her pancakes taste.

FTFY.  :-D

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[edited for shortness]
Yes, she has anxiety problems. Yes, that can be a problem. But at least she can deal with them - even if "dealing" means "taking a pill" for now.
That's a lot less problematic than, say, Dora's outbursts of irrationality, which she was neither aware of when they happened, nor could deal with.

Kind of, but I think I see the problem here as well.  Her anxiety attack was brought on by the behaviour of her brother, who should know better. Either he's an assclown - which very well could be, but then why should she talk about very intimate stuff with him then? Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.

This doesn't ring true to me at all, first of all Marten expressly didn't bring it up, and reacted well when Clinton did. Second of all Clinton is completely socially unaware, on numerous occasions he's been wildly inappropriate, and that includes him talking to and about Claire. He's mean, overprotective, clueless, and hurts people around him as a result. Why we would read Clinton hurting his sister in this moment as boding poorly for her being in a relationship, I have no idea.

More importantly, people with anxiety are more than capable of forming relationships. Having another intimate friendship will probably be quite healthy for her as she'll have someone who she can talk to that isn't her brother. She's definitely in therapy, and hell she's 24, we're not talking about a child.

Tldr: Claire isn't hannelor, it's annoying that having sufficient anxiety to be medicated is treated by so many people here as a guarantor of an inability to form a healthy bond
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swapna

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Yes, people on anxiety medication can form healthy bonds - example from the comic is that Hanners for example has a lot of great friendships.

Just sayin', it might pose difficulties, especially since somebody who's so committed to protecting Claire is the one who'll trigger. Her relationship with him is very close in that she would tell him something like that. To be clear, again: I'm not saying that people with anxiety/on medication/on therapy can't form relationships or whatever, no way. But Claire's anxiety seems to be related to intimacy, body issues and sexuality. Which does not bode well
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Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.

I don't know if she is the OBVIOUS choice. I feel like that is Pintsize.

But if I was a betting man I would put money on her saying something unintentionally offensive. That is if Jeph even decides to have any characters do that.
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Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense. I hope that doesn't happen, because it is obvious.

Jimbo and Steve, to a lesser extent, but I hope not for the same reason. It could be that Jeph is on a roll and we will find out soon. But he has a lot of other plots rolling, so he can easily back burner Claire's gender. Especially as it's less relevant than pretty much everything else about Claire.

If anyone is going to be the ignorant person, my money is on Sven. He's the closest thing to a villain in the strip.

Marigold loves yaoi remember.  Which of course isn't trans-related, but it is femmy guys gettin it on.  To my mind that means while she might make a really inane/stupid comment (since she is kinda stupid), she won't make a transphobic one. 

I see no reason why Jimbo or Sven will ever find out, as they are in the comic so infrequently, and not close to Marten.  Steve will eventually, but I think his reaction will probably be having his eyes bug out for a second, and then just being "cool, whatever bro."  That's how he rolls. 
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I don't know if she is the OBVIOUS choice. I feel like that is Pintsize.

But if I was a betting man I would put money on her saying something unintentionally offensive. That is if Jeph even decides to have any characters do that.

Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent. That's one reason I don't expect him to present a problem.  He will find a way to make Marten and Claire uncomfortable for his own amusement, yes. Beyond that, I don't see him having a motive. He does care about the gang.

Quote from: LotsOfPeople
Marigold seems the obvious choice for unintentional offense.

Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Mar-bear is a likely candidate to do something problematic without any intent, or malice. You don't have to say something transphobic to be offensive, just like one doesn't have to be a bigoted to do something racist.

On a related note, I never said any cast members had to be ignorant. If said IF someone had to be. It seems to me that if that was, in the plan the villain is the appropriate character. Sven is as close as it gets.

Anyone else in the cast and it risks becoming a teachable moment. Jeph hasn't gone that route yet, so my money is actually on no one being uncool. At least not to any extent worth mentioning. Claire being trans is no more a joke than Emily being Japanese. We haven't seen Jeph jokes about the latter, I doubt we'll see him deal with the former.

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Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent.

He had unintentionally gay robot sex.  Does that count?

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Pintsize isn't going to be unintentional. I don't recall a case of him ever doing anything without intent.

He had unintentionally gay robot sex.  Does that count?
For the purpose of suggesting he would be intentionally crass on this subject? I would say no. Apples v. Oranges. Pintsize unintentionally harms himself all the time. Accidentally harming others is a rare thing for him.

One can make the case that he crosses the line. A lot of the things he does could be considered sexual assault. But he seems a good judge of who will put up with his antics and who won't. Instances of him inspiring known violent personalities to do him violence fall under the heading of unintentionally doing himself harm. In almost all of those cases, he intended to do what he did, even if he didn't intend all the consequences. I just don't see him accidentally being a hater or intentionally being hateful.

aliensporebomb

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Beyond all the other stuff that's been discussed this week is that so far everyone in the QC universe seems to be for this relationship. 

I'm just waiting for Claire's brother to react.  Someone's going to be a naysayer.  Just like in any relationship.  We'll just have to see.

That's the deal about major plot shifts like this: there's more unanswered than answered. 

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McFace

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Beyond all the other stuff that's been discussed this week is that so far everyone in the QC universe seems to be for this relationship. 

I'm just waiting for Claire's brother to react.  Someone's going to be a naysayer.  Just like in any relationship.  We'll just have to see.

That's the deal about major plot shifts like this: there's more unanswered than answered.

Honestly I think his reaction will be played more for laughs than drama.
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Is it cold in here?

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Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.
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Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".
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Or neither of them know her triggers, which doesn't bode well for a future relationship.

I admit that this is just a guess, but I got the impression that it surprised both of them that it was a trigger. I think that, looking back, that is when Claire realised that she was falling for Marten; she was that worried about his opinion of her. Not that she had any idea how to react to that or what to do about it.
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swapna, you put it better than I did.

Ben, if she's that concerned about Marten's opinion of her then it is not healthy for either of them. 

{edit} Then again, it looks as though she's calmed down since then.

Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.

Only if she studied at GC.
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Claire doesn't have a nickname yet, does she?

"Fire head girl" is already taken.

"Pun-isher" would fit but I think Faye would veto it for fear it might encourage her. How about "Books"?
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Faye gave her the obvious moniker: "Red".
In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
The genuinely nasty slur version is Ranga. Though even that can be used affectionately.
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In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?
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Surely Claire is the little duck. Peep peep peep.

By the way, why do several people expect that Claire is going to out herself or be outed now that she's together with Marten? :? The only person who needs to know already knows.

I think with Marten's group of friends being what they are, very little stays 'secret' for long - and not in a bad way. It won't happen immediately most probably, and Marten would obviously wait for Claire to do it, but I think she'll start feeling more comfortable around them and be willing to share. Like everyone is saying, I think they'll all be pretty chill about it. Clinton or Marten might also accidentally let it slip, which could be very awkward, but I don't think Jeph would go down that route.

But you make a good point, and it may well be that Claire doesn't feel the need to share.  Which is entirely her prerogative.
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In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906
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Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Mar-bear is a likely candidate to do something problematic without any intent, or malice. You don't have to say something transphobic to be offensive, just like one doesn't have to be a bigoted to do something racist.

It's not as if Marigold hasn't form here. She already caught herself inadvertently making a mildly homophobic statement to Tai.

To be fair to her, she mmediately realised it after it left her mouth and she apologised, but yeah, I would not want to bet against Marigold being the first to make an insenistive remark in Claire's direction.
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Someone is going to have their trachea crushed.
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In Australia, she'd be "Blue". Because she's a redhead.
Buh?

The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (2008) by Eric Partridge, Tom Dalzell and Terry Victor says:

    Bluey noun used as a nickname for a red-haired person. Ironic in origin. Australia, 1906

Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.
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Some redheads, especially those of Celtic ancestry, have extremely fair skin that can appear pale blue in the right light. So it's not always so ironic.

This seems especially likely for Claire. Notice how bright and easy she blushes and also the freckles; they're both signs of fair skin.
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