Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Faypocalypse Sven

9 (6.9%)

Claireten Snuggles

12 (9.2%)

Clintonhand Naughtyness

3 (2.3%)

Dora fires Faye - Drama and drunkenness ensues

50 (38.2%)

Clairemom and Martenmom accidentally meet

4 (3.1%)

Emily gets weirder (is that even possible?)

4 (3.1%)

Sven rescues Faye - Dora gets wrong end of stick

12 (9.2%)

The surprise return on Angus - Blood and mayhem ensue

5 (3.8%)

Purple Monkey Dishwasher

7 (5.3%)

Whatever it is, it'll be completely unexpected

22 (16.8%)

ALIENS!

3 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 123

[Estron]

"Go home" is very different from "Get out".

But in this case, Jeph has Dora say "Go home, Faye . . . " because we all have heard it a gazillion times and it always ends up with " . . . you're drunk."  He has her start it that way so we can have little bit of a twist in a non-humorous punch line.

[iasthai]

But hasn't Dora fired Faye before?

[mikmaxs]

If your friend says they want to be drunk all the time because they can't handle what they're going through, you go out of your way to help this friend. You do NOT ignore their problem and then get mad at them only when it begins to directly affect yourself.

This is an understandable, humane and decent impulse. It's also exactly what alcoholism needs in order to thrive. Show me an alcoholic that went on drinking for years, and I'll show you someone with enablers trying misguidedly to help them. Dora's doing the right thing.

I never said that you don't try to stop her from drinking. When I said 'Go out of your way to help them' I never said anything about enabling them. When I said 'Help', I meant hold an intervention. Keep them from drinking. Get them to seek a therapist (Again). Heck, they even got Faye to sober up for a while and see a therapist a while ago, back when she was going through different emotional issues. (I can't remember the exact context, but it happened.) My frustration here is that Faye is only showing anger, not sympathy, not concern, just a general pissed attitude that Faye is drunk.

[Jazzmaster]

Maybe this little kick in the ass will give Faye a chance to pursue something like her art.

Seriously, the combination of breaking up with Angus and losing her job at CoD is a fantastic opportunity for some honest-to-God character development here. 

Just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass, I went back and looked closely at the comics since Christmas. Literally everything we see Dora do to support and help Faye is tell her 'Alcohol isn't the solution, Faye.'
Furthermore, when she sees Faye drinking at work, there is absolutely no sympathy, concern, or worry in her expression. We see confusion, and then anger. That's it. Some friend.

Send her home, definitely. Tell her she can't come back in until she sobers up. Hold an intervention. Make sure everyone else knows what is going on so they can help. Don't just yell at your friend for a minute and tell them they're fired without another word.

What is with people in this thread seriously fucking blaming Dora, when clearly Faye is the one who made such a bad choice? 

I honestly think we're reading a different comic here, because what you are reading as "Dora's an asshole who can't understand Faye's problems", I see as "Faye is acting incredibly irresponsibly and needs to get a grip; it isn't the job of her friends or anybody else to just keep putting up with her shit until the end of time".

I mean, do you ever stop to think that maybe it's because Dora IS tired of Faye's crap and saw no other option, because Faye has really gone over the line?  Do you think maybe Faye is the one who needs to make a serious change, and that it's not the responsibility of the entire universe to continue to look for ways to make it the least painful for her, even when they've already gone out of their way to help her and she hasn't really done enough for herself?  Do you think maybe it's actually Faye's job to take care of Faye and not do dumb shit like show up at work drunk only to end up drinking more, that it isn't Dora's or Marten's or Angus' or anybody else's job to fix her shit for her?

Hate to be That Guy but I'm thinking her abandonment issues and the potential consequences of recent events are being way, way overblown in here.  I'd like to THINK that Faye has actually progressed as a person since the comic started.  I'd like to THINK that as a person, she has developed the self awareness to understand that she is in control of her life and her actions, and that she can actually learn from her mistakes and let life's lessons mold her into a wiser, stronger person. 

[Carl-E]

I never said that you don't try to stop her from drinking. When I said 'Go out of your way to help them' I never said anything about enabling them.

Unfortunately, addiction thrives on good intentions.  Interventions and rehab programs frequently don't work for the simple reason that the subject isn't ready to change.  They can perfectly realize how much they're hurting their loved ones, and even themselves, and will go right back to the addictor without so much as a by-your-leave.  They will hate themselves for it, too, and break down into a weepy quivering puddle, but will go right back to the same behaviour at the first opportunity. 

It's hard to know what triggers a change in the ones that successfully conquer an addiction, it's different for every addict.  But something fundamental must change, and that comes from within, not from their friends or family or social workers. 

Faye's not ready yet, and it may take a while.  In fact, I hope it does.  Because any "fast cure" isn't going to be believable, and if there's one thing you can say about this comic, it's that the characters are believable. 

Even the robots. 

[Platypodes]

And this is a small business, not a huge corporation that has resources to help people deal with alcoholism. One incident where Faye hurts someone because she's drunk and the business is basically over.

That's a very good point. I can't remember when Dora last spoke of the CoD finances, but my general impression is that the business is juuuuust staying on the successful side of things.  Wasn't it a humongous stress when the espresso machine broke?  A drunk-ass employee in a place of responsibility could be a total catastrophe.

[themacnut]

Just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass, I went back and looked closely at the comics since Christmas. Literally everything we see Dora do to support and help Faye is tell her 'Alcohol isn't the solution, Faye.'
Furthermore, when she sees Faye drinking at work, there is absolutely no sympathy, concern, or worry in her expression. We see confusion, and then anger. That's it. Some friend.

Dora may be Faye's friend, but she's also got a business to run. A small business that is her sole source of income, that can be sued into bankruptcy if Faye injures a customer while drunk (it can be as simple as accidentally spilling hot coffee on them while handing it to them). Faye's drunkenness is threatening the business, not to mention violating one of Dora's employee rules. For the second time in a row, I might add.

Being friends with the boss does not give one license to do as he or she may please. Faye needs to find other, healthier ways to deal with her pain besides trying to drown it in hard liquor, maybe this firing will be the kick in the butt she needs to start finding those ways.

[jheartney]

With alcoholism, it's not a question of the drinker's moral character. Alcoholism is a disease which can make the most responsible, loving, caring person and turn them into a menace to their friends and family. Those friends and family may choose to try to intervene, but frankly they are under no moral obligation to do so. It's up to the drinker to choose to commit to sobriety. Then and only then can friends and family constructively assist. Failing that, misguided attempts to "help" will just enable the alcoholism to continue.

AA isn't just for drinkers. There are meeting for those close to alcoholics, where these very hard facts get imparted. However much they may love the alcoholic, those close to them must not protect them from the consequences of their actions. It won't help the drinker, and it sure won't help those close to the drinker.

Not sure how realistic Jeph wants to get about Faye's alcoholism. Assuming he does, this is the way it works. It's heartbreaking, but that's alcoholism.

[Alphawolf55]

I love how everyone is trying to imply that Dora needs to "help" Faye but how is she? She can't MAKE Faye do anything. The issue is alcoholics need to hit rock bottom. They need to know that the choices are fix their lives or lose everything because otherwise if you keep bailing them out they'll keep regressing

Like I'm sorry to there's no nice way for recovery

Plus Faye needs to see some real consequences. Faye has been consistently in the wrong (burning down an apartment, blaming Sven for cheating even though they weren't exclusive, being a shitty friend, breaking up Angus on the spot) yet everyone has either bailed or out and took her side.

[jheartney]

Unfortunately, addiction thrives on good intentions.  Interventions and rehab programs frequently don't work for the simple reason that the subject isn't ready to change. 

Exactly right.

[Zalder]

I was really glad to see Dora taking such a direct, if be it harsh, action to Faye's crap.  I know a lot of people feel she should have sent her home for the day, and dealt with it at a later point, but Dora has coddled Faye for a long time.  Sure they're friends, good friends, but that doesn't give Faye free reign to drag her meltdown into work with her.  She was warned about drinking once already, once is enough.  Dora is a young business owner, to get to the point where she is at her age we assume she has poured her blood and sweat into her business, she obviously feels very serious about keeping her business safe.  Although she has given Faye a pass on being "herself" at work before, this time she viewed a direct threat to her investment, and acted accordingly.  I think she feels betrayed by what she perceives as Faye's selfishness, even if she knows that Faye does have a deeper problem.

[TheEvilDog]

My frustration here is that Faye* Dora is only showing anger, not sympathy, not concern, just a general pissed attitude that Faye is drunk.

Because heaven forfend that Dora shouldn't be angry that her assistant manager is hungover, trying to sneak a drink at work and lying to her. As an employer, specifically Faye's employer, Dora does have a right to expect a certain amount of professionalism from her employees and that's not what is happening here. I haven't seen any sign of Penny or Cosette or Hanners in the shop, so I'm assuming that Dora and Faye are opening up, which considering CoD's opening hours must be pretty early in the morning.

There is a reason why friends shouldn't employ friends, especially in small businesses like Coffee of Doom, because you end up in dilemmas like this. This isn't something to laugh about, this is Faye screwing around with Dora's livelihood. Damn right Dora has every reason to be pissed off with Faye.  Dora has tried to be understanding about the breakup, she's tried talking to Faye and telling her that alcohol isn't the solution (technically it is, but I have no mind for puns right now). Dora has tried to be there for Faye and now Faye has pretty much dumped on that effort by blatantly lying to Dora. Because guess what, if someone is intent on drinking themselves down the drain, it doesn't make someone a bad friend to wash your hands of them. Otherwise, you might get dragged down with them.

I say this as someone who has had to deal with alcoholics in his family tree for 30 years (thankfully not absolutely immediate family). Some people are perhaps more saintly with their patience, but there comes a point where you have to stop helping and walk away. Some people realise that a lot earlier than others. In the end, it doesn't matter what you say to an alcoholic, unless they want to get out of the gutter, the bottle will always win out.

For once, Dora isn't the bad guy here, it's Faye. And it's going to be Faye and Faye alone who decides if she wants help or not.

*I assume you originally meant Dora.

[Zalder]

My frustration here is that Faye* Dora is only showing anger, not sympathy, not concern, just a general pissed attitude that Faye is drunk.

For once, Dora isn't the bad guy here, it's Faye. And it's going to be Faye and Faye alone who decides if she wants help or not.

*I assume you originally meant Dora.

Agreed.

[explicit]

I would also argue that this is the best thing Dora can do for Faye as a friend. Sometimes friends have to be harsh in order to help someone; you just have to hope that when the dust settles you can stay friends throughout.

[brown paper bag]

I approve of "time to shit all over Faye". As a selfish thoughtless bitch, she's had it a long time coming. Treated Marten like garbage for years while harboring a secret crush. Used to physically assault Marten and others. Used Marten and others as emotional crutches. Fucked a well-known douchebag in a friends with benefits situation for months and was too thick to foresee that she'd eventually suffer collateral damage from his douchebaggery. Treated a dude like shit for years, warmed up to him, loved him, then effectively told him to go fuck himself when he wanted to follow his dreams. Dad dying is an explanation that only works for so long. Eventually one has to take responsibility for their shitty actions. I hope Faye becomes a better person out of all this.

Dora firing Faye is completely in line with Dora's hasty shithead behavior that she's showed for years in the comic. If she gets pissed off, she literally burns everything down. Dumped Marten for standing up for himself. Disowned her own brother. Now she's fired Faye. Dora has no concept of loyalty or empathy. I'm actually more interested to see where Dora's character arc goes, if it goes anywhere at all. I think Jeph uses Dora as a one-dimensional stereotype of erratic bitch behavior that we've all had experience with. I'd like to see Dora completely alone and possibly a meth-head after seeing the way she alienates everyone.

[Platypodes]

A question for those who know more about alcoholism than I do: can we really say with certainty that Faye is an alcoholic?

I thought Faye had been generally successful at drinking in moderation for quite some time after realizing that she'd been overdoing it.  Now she's clearly on a horrendously unhealthy bender, but it's only been a few days since her breakup.  I get that she's showing all the classic signs of alcoholism right now, but does a few days of such behavior demonstrate full-on addiction, or might it just be part of her being generally an emotional wreck this week?

[Alphawolf55]

Its classic relapsing. Its quite normal for alcoholics to have good periods of months where they're healthy or good or to face some sort of challenge, heartache or even boredom. its often these relapses or drinking Bender's that define alcoholics where they destroy everything they built up the last few months in a week.

[tangerinewarrior]

Does anyone have any idea of how long in comic it's been since Faye and Angus split? I'm trying to figure it outs and I come up with 2, maybe 3 days top. Also, I'm wondering where on earth Angus is- has he just been written out completely? I feel like there is stuff unresolved in his side of the story arc. As far as Faye getting fired- it is justified, but I really don't see it sticking (although it should). Again, everything seems to be happening ridiculously fast in story.

[TheEvilDog]

A question for those who know more about alcoholism than I do: can we really say with certainty that Faye is an alcoholic?

I thought Faye had been generally successful at drinking in moderation for quite some time after realizing that she'd been overdoing it.  Now she's clearly on a horrendously unhealthy bender, but it's only been a few days since her breakup.  I get that she's showing all the classic signs of alcoholism right now, but does a few days of such behavior demonstrate full-on addiction, or might it just be part of her being generally an emotional wreck this week?

If Faye isn't an alcoholic now, she's about to jump off the slippery slope into alcoholism.
If you wake up in the morning and the first thing you do is reach for a bottle - You might have a problem.
If the second thing you do is find a bottle you don't remember purchasing - you might have a problem.
If you sneak said bottle into work with the intent of drinking it during your shift - you might have a problem.
Faye has a whole load of problems right now.

[mikmaxs]

Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.

Also, once again, it's not Dora's actions I'm mad at, it's her nonactiom. If she had sat down Faye and talked to her, been assured that everything was okay, and *then* all of this happened, it'd be fine. If Dora seemed reluctant to fire Faye but had to for legal reasons, it'd be fine. But as it stands, after being told by Faye that she intends to drink herself into oblivion, Dora did pretty much nothing. She didn't try and fail, she didn't try and get rejected, she just didn't *try*.

[Kugai]

Aaaand

The other shoe drops



This is gonna get messy now, isn't it?

[jheartney]

A question for those who know more about alcoholism than I do: can we really say with certainty that Faye is an alcoholic?

I took the test here (https://ncadd.org/learn-about-alcohol/alcohol-abuse-self-test) using what we know about Faye. She scored 15. Here's what the test says about answers above 8:
"If you answered “yes” to more than 8 questions, you may have a serious level of alcohol-related problems requiring immediate attention and possible treatment.  You should seek professional guidance. "

Short answer: yes, she's an alcoholic.

[Tova]

I don't think she would have been any less drunk or any less hurting the next morning. It would not have made an ounce of difference.

She would've know she'd been caught, and acted accordingly. If that meant still drinking, then I'd stand by the firing. If that meant sobering up and getting a hold of herself, then Dora may have still fired her, but hopefully would talk to Faye about getting her help.

Pffft. Okay, let's say Dora were to do this.

Faye is all apologetic, maybe even lies (again) about getting help to get her job back, and Dora relents. Maybe not the next day but soon, Faye is drunk at work again and injures a customer. Dora is in deep trouble.

To fire Faye at home, in a space where Dora is a friend not a boss, would be very difficult if not entirely inappropriate.

Dora already gave Faye a second chance. She blew it.

[Rusty]

Does anyone have any idea of how long in comic it's been since Faye and Angus split? I'm trying to figure it outs and I come up with 2, maybe 3 days top. Also, I'm wondering where on earth Angus is- has he just been written out completely? I feel like there is stuff unresolved in his side of the story arc. As far as Faye getting fired- it is justified, but I really don't see it sticking (although it should). Again, everything seems to be happening ridiculously fast in story.

Seems like its been about a week, judging by Claire/Marten 

[Zalder]

Also, once again, it's not Dora's actions I'm mad at, it's her nonactiom. If she had sat down Faye and talked to her, been assured that everything was okay, and *then* all of this happened, it'd be fine. If Dora seemed reluctant to fire Faye but had to for legal reasons, it'd be fine. But as it stands, after being told by Faye that she intends to drink herself into oblivion, Dora did pretty much nothing. She didn't try and fail, she didn't try and get rejected, she just didn't *try*.

We know Dora has been really stressed and busy over CoD lately though, and we know Faye isn't the most receptive to people sitting down and talking to her about her problems.  I hear where you're coming from but given Dora's own worries I think it's unfair for us to expect her to watch over Faye as well, even if that's what we might expect from a close friend.  I think it's just a bad time for everyone.

[ysth]

I predict major aftershocks of (misplaced) guilt from Dora.  She may even cry on Marten's shoulder (somehow I don't see Tai in that role).

[Zalder]

I predict major aftershocks of (misplaced) guilt from Dora.  She may even cry on Marten's shoulder (somehow I don't see Tai in that role).

Poor dude must have sore shoulders by now.

[TheEvilDog]

I predict major aftershocks of (misplaced) guilt from Dora.  She may even cry on Marten's shoulder (somehow I don't see Tai in that role).

To be honest, I don't think Tai would really be the best choice for that role (AT THIS STAGE IN HER LIFE). I could see Dora wanting to talk to Tai but Tai too busy getting ready for that party she's planning for the library.

[Tova]

Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.

Something a lot of people routinely ignore: Dora is not privy to our knowledge. She is not seeing what we are seeing. What's obvious to us is not obvious to her, and even we get into arguments over what we've seen.

I'll be interested to see what her next move will be. Get Marten to intervene?

[Kugai]

I think that this could go either way

It'll either be the catalyst that gets Faye to get her shit together after the whole thing with Angus (with suitable drama and angst) or will send her into a deeper depression - in which case she might try and do what her Father did.


I hope it's the former and not the latter.

[Is it cold in here?]

Notice how close The Pugnacious Peach already is to hitting bottom.

She's lost the job that was the center of her social life and which gave her a purpose and scope for growth. The job market is terrible where she lives (remember Momo's difficulties). It was not the drinking that did it, but she's lost the relationship she was depending on for healing.

What she has left is Marten, who might try to cover all the rent himself out of confusing martyrdom with friendship, but who probably can't afford to. And even Marten can be pushed too far.

EDIT: She doesn't even have a car to live in after losing the apartment.

[mikmaxs]

Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.

Something a lot of people routinely ignore: Dora is not privy to our knowledge. She is not seeing what we are seeing. What's obvious to us is not obvious to her, and even we get into arguments over what we've seen.

Dora has seen more than anyone else, though. Dora is the only one who heard Faye say (and I bring this up again) that she never wants to be sober, ever. Ignoring everything else we've seen, that one thing puts Faye squarely in the 'Really needs help' section.

Also, where are the other CoD employees in all of this?

[Alphawolf55]

Something a lot of people seem to ignore: Faye is clinically depressed. If her alcoholism were just a problem in and of itself, I could understand the hate on her, but she's got a disease. She is sick.

Also, once again, it's not Dora's actions I'm mad at, it's her nonactiom. If she had sat down Faye and talked to her, been assured that everything was okay, and *then* all of this happened, it'd be fine. If Dora seemed reluctant to fire Faye but had to for legal reasons, it'd be fine. But as it stands, after being told by Faye that she intends to drink herself into oblivion, Dora did pretty much nothing. She didn't try and fail, she didn't try and get rejected, she just didn't *try*.

Alcohoism itself isn't a disease but whatever causes it seems to be. Dora has told Faye before not to drink, she isn't equipped to handle Faye problem considering her own.

[MrNumbers]

Yes Dora. Your friend is obviously in need. Firing them is the best thing to do at the moment.

God damn it, Faye's consistently been established to be volatile but still one of her best damn employees. She also knows that this behaviour is uncharacteristic. I understand why she'd be pissed, but Jesus Christ this seems like the worst possible thing for Dora to have done.

In one fell swoop she's exacerbated her friend's suffering when they're already past breaking point and lost one of her best employees for an incident that, whilst it isn't exactly minor, was more deserving of disciplinary action than termination. It's just bad business.

Especially when customers come just for her service in particular.

Seriously. A massive pay dock and the loss of a few shifts for a while. There are levels between "Nothing/Coddling" and "Termination".

EDIT: By 'uncharacteristic' I don't mean the drinking. Using alcohol to cope has been typical behaviour for her. She's never let it interfere with her work, before, though.

[Alphawolf55]

The only reason why Faye is one of the best employees is by being best of the worse, not by any actual quality.

[MrNumbers]

The only reason why Faye is one of the best employees is by being best of the worse, not by any actual quality.

If that were true, she wouldn't have been promoted to management.

[Alphawolf55]

Again best of the worse. No one is making Hannelore and Mono assistant manager. Cosette is a student and way too clumsy for the job. Penelope was the only real competition and Dora putting Faye over her was probably an act of seniority and favoritism.

[qc001]

I would be delighted to have tomorrow's comic (or whenever we return to the Dora-Faye-CoD situation) pick up two seconds after this one leaves off, along the lines of:

Dora: "You're fired, until such time as you sober up and start to get your shit together again.  See Dr. Corrinne, enroll in AA, maybe talk to Angus when you feel up to it.  When you've got a hold on things again, come back here and talk about your job with Boss-Dora.  Until then, I'm Friend-Dora, only."

::cue Marten/Hannelore/Whitaker Family/MariDale/Tai/Jimbo?/[anyone else who wants to show up] to step up and take Faye away for some serious intervention time::

I am of the camp that both Dora and Faye (and most everyone in the cast, perhaps excepting Hannelore) can do some pretty shitty things at times, but I'm hoping that this is just drama for art's sake with the comic, and not going to spiral hideously out of control for everybody.

Okay, relurking powers, activate!!

[MrNumbers]

[...]and Dora putting Faye over her was probably an act of seniority and favoritism.

So Dora is simultaneously the kind of person who would make the decision to immediately fire a friend without question for drinking when they know they're suffering after turning down a more competent employee out of pure favouritism?

Look, whilst I understand humans are creatures of contradiction, you have to understand just how hard I'm calling bullshit on this.

Warning - while you were typing a new coworker has appeared. Hide your bottle under your shirt before they notice.

[eschaton]

Notice how close The Pugnacious Peach already is to hitting bottom.

She's lost the job that was the center of her social life and which gave her a purpose and scope for growth. The job market is terrible where she lives (remember Momo's difficulties). It was not the drinking that did it, but she's lost the relationship she was depending on for healing.

What she has left is Marten, who might try to cover all the rent himself out of confusing martyrdom with friendship, but who probably can't afford to. And even Marten can be pushed too far.

EDIT: She doesn't even have a car to live in after losing the apartment.

Yeah, it's quite ironic that she decided to not go with Angus to NYC because she was afraid of change/liked her life the way it was.  And now, in only a few short days, she's completely wrecked that life. 

Honestly, if Faye wasn't stuck in a depressive cycle I'd wonder if she'd come crawling back to Angus and beg to come with him to New York at this point, leaving behind a messy situation and run away from her problems yet again.  But she's going to be heavy into the self loathing for awhile yet. 

[tragic_pizza]

"One of her best employees?"

Um... no. An Assistant Manager is supposed to be, among other things, an example to other employees. Faye is an asshole on her best days. And, since I like all the QC characters, including Faye and yes, even Clinton, I am being generous here.

It wouldn't be hard to convince me that everyone is suffering compassion fatigue, is tired of Faye's shit, plus the fact that a person in a position of authority has shat upon the owner of the business.

Gone, baby, gone.

[Alphawolf55]

[...]and Dora putting Faye over her was probably an act of seniority and favoritism.

So Dora is simultaneously the kind of person who would make the decision to immediately fire a friend without question for drinking when they know they're suffering after turning down a more competent employee out of pure favouritism?

Look, whilst I understand humans are creatures of contradiction, you have to understand just how hard I'm calling bullshit on this.

Warning - while you were typing a new coworker has appeared. Hide your bottle under your shirt before they notice.

Immediately firing her would've been her firing her yesterday.

Firing her the next day when she's still drunk if not worse because she's now bringing booze into the work place, lying to her face about it, , after she gave her a promotion and everything which is now putting her business at stake? That is not without question

Again the only reason Faye seems to be a good employee is because of the quality of the other employees and because we don't see Dale and Penelope at work enough.

[xaszatm]

Yes Dora. Your friend is obviously in need. Firing them is the best thing to do at the moment.

God damn it, Faye's consistently been established to be volatile but still one of her best damn employees. She also knows that this behaviour is uncharacteristic. I understand why she'd be pissed, but Jesus Christ this seems like the worst possible thing for Dora to have done.

In one fell swoop she's exacerbated her friend's suffering when they're already past breaking point and lost one of her best employees for an incident that, whilst it isn't exactly minor, was more deserving of disciplinary action than termination. It's just bad business.

Especially when customers come just for her service in particular.

Seriously. A massive pay dock and the loss of a few shifts for a while. There are levels between "Nothing/Coddling" and "Termination".

This is it. This is the comment that gets me to join.

You are confusing business with friendship. You never mix the two. Having Dora hire her friends was already a step in the wrong direction, but she is doing the responsible thing here. When faced with a decision between friendship and business, business should win out. Friendship will not pay for the liabilities Faye will cause by being drunk. Friendship will not pay for any damages both physical and emotional she causes at the store. Friendship is not a valid defense when a drunk employee injures a patron. Friendship ends when it becomes a huge liability for a business. A business, mind you, that is the only income Dora has.

So, why not just give her a few days off? Well, first off, that encourages Faye. It shows her that she can show up drunk, which was pretty much one of the few rules Dora actually held, and have little to no punishment for it. It shows her that she can drunk all the goddamn time and there will be no consequences. Please tell me how that will help Faye recover from her drinking problem? It won't. The only way to get to an alcoholic is for the alcoholic to realize she has a problem. Firing her proves to her that she has a problem. And don't go "she could realize she had a problem with the threat of a firing". No she wouldn't. When someone is currently in alcoholic withdraw, they will justify their drinking in any way possible. Only when the writing is on the wall will an alcoholic even consider thinking that they might have a problem, and even then they might still choose to drink.

Secondly more deserving of disciplinary action?. I'm sorry, what?!? Something that could have serious economic consequences for her store is only deserving of disciplinary action? Look, even if that were true, Faye has more than racked up warnings. Dora even gave her a position of power. That position comes with trust. And what did Faye do with said trust? Spit on it because "screw you, my problems mean more to me than your livelihood". You're mad that Dora's a bad friend to Faye? Be mad that Faye is using her friendship as an excuse. Faye with her drinking crossed a line in both the business side and friendship side with Dora and Dora's reaction was more than justified.

Should Dora help Faye with her problems? Of course. But that happens outside of working hours, when her own livelihood isn't threatened.

[TieDyeKat]

I worry that one of two things will happen here:

1.  Faye goes home, Marten comes home, Faye cries on Marten's shoulder, Marten misses date with Claire, Claire second-guesses herself into a worried tizzy or misconstrues what's going on and feels Marten isn't being a fantastic boyfriend any more.

2.  Faye goes home, Marten doesn't, Faye was depending on Marten to be there and does something ill-advised, Marten comes home to find disaster.

I kinda hope:

3.  Faye goes home, Marten doesn't, Hannelore tells her to put her big girl panties on and sober the hell up.

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new people and lurkers.

[MrNumbers]

Immediately firing her would've been her firing her yesterday.

Firing her the next day when she's still drunk if not worse because she's now bringing booze into the work place, lying to her face about it, , after she gave her a promotion and everything which is now putting her business at stake? That is not without question

First: This is still the same day, in-strip time. It's later on in that same day. That's important.

Second: Yes. Absolutely. She made a poor decision to lie to her boss, whilst drunk, and then continued to drink. That's a horrible, terrible thing to do.

But a bigger hit to Dora's business is losing an otherwise good manager (one who has a loyal customer base and manages to keep the other employees well in check) in the heat of the moment. Her decision to punish Faye? Justified. Being sick of Faye's shit? Justified.

But the loss of a valued employee, and a manager at that, is now made up for in the overtime she needs to pay other people to make up for Faye's shifts, time investment in hiring a new employee, and time Dora herself has to spend since she was the only other manager. If Faye's actions haven't caused more damage, or will cause more damage, than her termination will, then the termination is a poor decision. Especially since it's not a repeat offense, it's a first-time incident of this type of behaviour.

So it's a bad business decision as well as a bad friend decision.

Warning - while you were typing 3 new bottles of bourbon appeared on the wall. Note them down, pass them around.

This is it. This is the comment that gets me to join.

I'll fight you all!

You are confusing business with friendship.

I just covered that now. Let's move on.

So, why not just give her a few days off? Well, first off, that encourages Faye. [...]

Ahh... No? No it doesn't. If his is her only source of income, giving her a week or two without shifts is a serious financial burden. Huge. Give Faye a taste of what termination would be like if she didn't get her shit together and know that Dora means business. It's not like a school suspension, especially since Faye is paid by the hour and not a set wage.

She should absolutely be punished severely. A permanent termination is a step too far.

Secondly more deserving of disciplinary action?. I'm sorry, what?!? Something that could have serious economic consequences for her store is only deserving of disciplinary action?

Again, covered above. The severity of her punishment should scale with the permanency of her incompetence. It's the difference between rehabilitation and retribution. Retribution may feel more righteous, but guess which one ends up more effective long-term?

Alright, who else needs verbal fisticuffs? I'll take you all on, Hemmingway style.

EDIT: I would also like to state, for prudence's sake, that I am, in fact, joking about fighting people. I do not wish for this to devolve into a flame war of any flavour.

[Is it cold in here?]

One of the wiser things I've ever heard about dealing with addicts is "Don't jump in and try to save an anchor from drowning".

Proportionate measures are for normal healthy people screwing up. The Pugnacious Peach is looking less and less like such a person.

[Is it cold in here?]

I do not wish for this to devolve into a flame war of any flavour.

Global Moderator Comment

The moderators stand with you.

[Gladstone]

I'm still trying to process all this (and I can see everyone else is, too).  I mean, this is Faye we're talking about.  She's been around since the beginning.  And while, yeah, she started out prickly and violent, she's spent the entire run of the comic getting better--getting to know Marten, moving in with him, making other friends, opening up about her past, kissing a boy, dumping that boy when he broke the rules, getting a boyfling, making art, holding down a steady job and getting promoted--and suddenly that's all come crashing down in just a few short days because her drinking, which has always been a small problem but never more than a bad hangover the next morning, has at last turned into something bigger and cost her the job she has had since before she met Marten.  This is kind of a big deal, as big as Marten getting a girlfriend or breaking up with a girlfriend, and for some reason I can't quite process it yet.  I really have to trust Jeph on this, because I have no idea where he's going with it.

[explicit]

I for one like shitty things to happen every once in awhile to one of our beloved characters. Or at least them proving to be imperfect. Besides the break up everything's been going too good for everyone anyway (they're not real people, I'm allowed to want them to suffer some adversity okay?)