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Whatever happened to Pintsize?

41 (37.6%)

Faye's story v.2.0.?

21 (19.3%)

Student, Girlfriend, Librarian or some combination of all three? Claire's Dilemma?

11 (10.1%)

How do you come back from firing your best friend?

20 (18.3%)

Something completely new (give your idea in a comment, plz)?

0 (0%)

"Marten, how would you feel about having three dads?"

16 (14.7%)

Total Members Voted: 99

Voting closed: 04 Feb 2015, 06:23

[Thrillho]

Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph.  But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me.  Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring.  That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).

Really? Seriously?

[ChrisSayer]

Okay, time for my Next Week Strips I'd Like to See!

Well, I've just got to say, BenRG's "Strips I'd Like to See!" posts are most happy-making.

Rather like getting two Questionable Content Universes for the price of one.

Merci beaucoup!

[shrike1978]

Marten may have done this off-panel.  Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph.  But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me.  Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring.  That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).

Maybe this is cynicism talking, but if that had been shown, we'd have a bunch of people complaining about how all he could do was ogle her bits.  The way it was done, it was implied (to me anyway), and more tasteful.

[jimwormmaster]

Anyone else looking at that picture of Claire from behind with her hair down and thinking she could do an AWESOME Cosplay of Starfire from Teen Titans?

I keep thinking Merida, from Brave. How do you feel about tartan, Claire?

Well then.  Honestly I'm thinking she could do either one, now that you guys mention it.  As for today's strip, Claire's face is adorable in panel 4.  The kind of nervous look, the hair twirl, it really sells the mood.  And gotta hand it to Good Guy Marten for knowing just what to say.  I feel no shame in adding to the sea of squee on this one.

[Aimless]

Martin gives me the creeps whenever we get a closeup of his eyes now.

[...]

Claire is looking for acceptance of her body, not her face, since Marten knows her face already.  This includes her bits, or she wouldn't have taken off her panties.  Any straight dude, if he sees his GF naked for the first time, is going to scan her whole body (whether she's trans or cis) and just take it all in. 

Marten may have done this off-panel.  Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph.  But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me.  Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring.  That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).

I have to admit this post --^ gives me the creeps much more than Marten's creepy eyes do. Just pretend he ogled the shit out of her between panels or something if that's your thing. Next week on QC we may have a strip where someone goes to the loo but we don't get a closeup of the toilet between wiping and flushing. Or maybe less really is more sometimes?

[Zebediah]

As for today's strip, Claire's face is adorable in panel 4.  The kind of nervous look, the hair twirl, it really sells the mood.  And gotta hand it to Good Guy Marten for knowing just what to say.  I feel no shame in adding to the sea of squee on this one.

I actually don't think it's a case of Marten "knowing what to say". BenRG pointed this out a bit upthread, but it bears repeating - Marten is tired. Marten is close to exhausted. He doesn't have the physical or mental energy to be suave or calculating. Whatever enters his head is what is going to come out of his mouth. He's too tired to be anything but utterly honest. So this isn't some attempt on his part to say the right thing - he says exactly what he thinks, and it happens to be exactly the right thing. Which is why he's Good Guy Marten.

[Neko_Ali]

Well, he's not wrong after all. Claire is beautiful. (squee)

[TieDyeKat]

Go on, Claire.  Break the Internet.

ALso, it's obvious why she wanted to remove her clothes first.  She wanted to avoid the sock gap.

http://vimeo.com/93428207

[dexeron]

Nothing like Jeff from Coupling to put things in perspective.

Also, let me second the "Squee"ing.  SQUEE!

Er... third.  Fourth?  Twentieth?  What are we up to at this point?

[MooskiNet]

And just like that, this thread is awesome.

THOUGH IT'S COLD AND LONELY IN NORTHAMPTON TONIIIIIGHT
I CAN SEE PARADIIIIISE FROM THE ANTHROPC'S LIIIIIGHT

Meatloaf just made a buck off you this morning.

*puts headphones on*

[eschaton]

Really? Seriously?

Yes seriously.

I never had a trans GF, but I did have ones who were overweight/uncomfortable with their body in the past.  I'm sure they didn't want me to stare at their body for long periods of time when the first disrobed, but I'm also sure they would be offput if I just looked at their face and avoided looking at their body. 

To be honest, I don't think I would have made this comment if someone else had said how great it was that "Marten's eyes never left hers."  That made me think about it, and realize it was actually kinda wrong. 

[SubaruStephen]

http://vimeo.com/93428207

That's.....actually good advice.

[valkygrrl]

Claire's face in panel 4 is the happiest we've ever seen her.

I think that says all that needs to be said really.

Not happy. You might be able to make an argument for giddy or nervous and resolved. Maybe a bit crazy, as in holy s#!t did I just do THAT? She just went all-in and there's nothing to do but look hopeful, be hopeful and see how the cards flop.

[anahata]

To be honest, I don't think I would have made this comment if someone else had said how great it was that "Marten's eyes never left hers."  That made me think about it, and realize it was actually kinda wrong.

It may not be true though, as others have suggested.
And wherever Marten looked immediately before that panel, it is good that he looked Claire in the eyes while speaking to her.

[Halloween Jack]

 

Wow. Go you two!

And WRT the close analysis of whether Marten actually dared to look at Claire's genitals: for fuck's sake, literally. It's like the overanalysis of Faye's rolling blackout in the ER.

[anahata]

Not happy. You might be able to make an argument for giddy or nervous and resolved. Maybe a bit crazy, as in holy s#!t did I just do THAT? She just went all-in and there's nothing to do but look hopeful, be hopeful and see how the cards flop.

Also Marten's response perhaps refers not (only) to her physical appearance, but also her courage in doing that the way she did.

[Soulsynger]

My heart LITERALLY skipped a beat when I caught the first glimpse of the comic a few minutes ago. (NOT figuratively, literally.)

Gotta hand it to Jeph for showing exactly the right amount of (mis-/) information and omitting the right things in a way that doesn't in the least interfere with the rhythm of panel-to-panel reading.
I believe there is an exact calculation at work here to evoke the reaction we see on the forum right now. Discussion, constructive/destructive analysis, a back and forth exchange of opinion about what we've seen and not seen. Brilliant! 

[ ... ]

PANEL 3 - FAYE gesturing with her coffee cup; her expression is teasing
FAYE: "Good. Just one thing: I'm all for the free expression of love, y'know."
PANEL 4 - MARTEN and CLARE are looking at each other and blushing. FAYE, in extreme foreground, is drinking some of her coffee with an expression of righteousness
FAYE: "Just try not to express it for four goddamn loud hours next time!"

[ ... ]

Try as I might, I can NOT see either Marten or Claire being very loud during... °O

I'm with Zebediah on why Marten said what he said. The moment, atmosphere and buildup over the last few comics fits very well with it.

[lightsabermario]

As for today's strip, Claire's face is adorable in panel 4.  The kind of nervous look, the hair twirl, it really sells the mood.  And gotta hand it to Good Guy Marten for knowing just what to say.  I feel no shame in adding to the sea of squee on this one.

I actually don't think it's a case of Marten "knowing what to say". BenRG pointed this out a bit upthread, but it bears repeating - Marten is tired. Marten is close to exhausted. He doesn't have the physical or mental energy to be suave or calculating. Whatever enters his head is what is going to come out of his mouth. He's too tired to be anything but utterly honest. So this isn't some attempt on his part to say the right thing - he says exactly what he thinks, and it happens to be exactly the right thing. Which is why he's Good Guy Marten.

Honestly, I fully disagree.  The reason is that there was no hesitation. Not even a pause to process what was or wasn't down there.  He would have said that regardless.  He may have even avoided looking downwards entirely to avoid contaminating his answer with hesitation.  The lack of looking downwards wasn't an oversight, it was a clue!  Anyone dating someone whose private bits are in question and has deliberately not pressed the question would have known that this moment was coming and prepared for it.  The fact that he never pressed the question is a sign that he is being super considerate and respectful, and a super respectful person would plan for this moment and have a thoughtful response, like "You are beautiful" planned in advance, just in case he was worried he might blurt out something offensive or surprised.  Preparation like that isn't that disingenuous, it's just being super careful that you don't accidentally hurt someone with your immediate response.  The fact that he was exhausted during this merely speaks to his dedication to not hurting her.

Honestly, considering everything, particularly given what he's just gone through, in my mind Marten is starting to change from Good Guy Marten to Unrealistically Good Guy Marten.  He's not all the way to Marty Stu or Sainthood-level Marten, but he is definitely starting to bridge the gap of believability.  I mean when is the last time he's done anything selfish or or wrong or non-heroic in any way?  All of our other QC characters have character flaws, but I have yet to see Marten demonstrate any.  In fact, the very reason he and Dora broke up was because he "had to be on his best behavior at all times" and he wasn't getting the same respect.

[Neko_Ali]

Wow. Go you two!

And WRT the close analysis of whether Marten actually dared to look at Claire's genitals: for fuck's sake, literally. It's like the overanalysis of Faye's rolling blackout in the ER.

That's what the forum does though. It over analyzes everything. Especially on a Friday strip. That's part of why I regret this comic... I was afraid to come into the thread. I was afraid the mods would have to be swinging the ban hammer like crazy. But people have been respectful and on point. Still, I would have been happy if they had left 'behind closed door' just that. And had Friday Faye coming out into the main room to see Marten and Claire having pancakes. And Marten saying 'You know.. She's right. Your mom's pancakes are much better.'

[katharsys]

Still, I would have been happy if they had left 'behind closed door' just that. And had Friday Faye coming out into the main room to see Marten and Claire having pancakes. And Marten saying 'You know.. She's right. Your mom's pancakes are much better.'

I for one am extremely happy that Jeph decided to put this up... There is something sweetly wonderful about showing that trepidation, excitement, and courage in the face of the fear of rejection. This is something more than just a Claire and Martin moment, but more a human moment - something that many people, no matter whether they are cis or trans, have experienced in the course of their lives.

To show them just eating pancakes the morning after would have been the easy way out, and maybe just a hint too saccharine.

[eschaton]

Honestly, considering everything, particularly given what he's just gone through, in my mind Marten is starting to change from Good Guy Marten to Unrealistically Good Guy Marten.  He's not all the way to Marty Stu or Sainthood-level Marten, but he is definitely starting to bridge the gap of believably.  I mean when is the last time he's done anything selfish or or wrong or non-heroic in any way? 

Padma.

Marty has historically had flaws.  The thing is, the flaws really didn't do anything except hurt him.  He was a "nice guy" in the way that a lot of "nice guys" conceive of themselves, but aren't actually.  Now he's just a "good guy." 

[lepetitfromage]

I think the fact that he maintained eye contact is appropriate given the medium- in a comic, you get a few snapshots of time and the in-between moments are suggested. Had there been a panel of Marten with his eyes cast downward, it would have given that moment more weight (making it feel like a longer moment in time) and I don't think it was necessary. She's disrobed and that is enough for the way that Jeph tells his stories (which is brilliantly, I might add).


I was firmly planted in the "not too early, but I doubt they are going to" camp and now I find that my previous stance is irrelevant. We don't know for sure what is coming next, but we're in a good place right now.

Re: Marten and Claire's relationship-

I think an important distinction to make is that while Claire tends to be very assertive about certain things and Marten could be a bit of a pushover, they reverse these roles in regards to physical and emotional relationships. If memory serves me correctly, most of his partners have been more experienced or had roughly the same amount of experience he has. Claire has never had a relationship and is a virgin. In this sense, Marten is taking on the role of teacher and helping Claire discover what it is like to embark on this emotional journey. Throughout their interactions, Marten has proved to her that he is trustworthy and that has given her more confidence in the relationship area to open herself up further. These steps are showing Marten that he is dealing with tender subjects in an acceptable way and gives him the confidence that he needs to know that this relationship is going in the right direction- additionally, it is proving to him that he CAN make good decisions. They are setting up a mutual respect and learning from one another. The foundation of any successful relationship. I am excited and ready for wherever Jeph takes us on this journey. Buckle up, folks!

All of our other QC characters have character flaws, but I have yet to see Marten demonstrate any.  In fact, the very reason he and Dora broke up was because he "had to be on his best behavior at all times" and he wasn't getting the same respect.

Marten's main character flaw is that he is directionless and not assertive in any way. I think this arc is allowing him to take the lead on guiding Claire through something that he is fairly knowledgeable about- being in relationships. I think this could be mutually beneficial.

[Technetium]

I kind of have an issue with how the whole story with Claire has gone. What makes the Martin-Claire relationship edgy/gutsy/controversial/interesting/etc is that trans people face a lot of problems that they shouldn't have to. At least in real life they do. I guess what bothers me is that Claire's existence in this comic, so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see (everyone she wants to be friends with accepts her, her family accepts her, the guy she pursues accepts her). Is this fair to the trans community? I am not trans or any other part of the LGBTQ spectrum, so I'm approaching this completely from the outside, but if I were to instead consider a different group that I belong to that is discriminated against (although I won't pretend it's anywhere near to the degree what trans people face), I would have a problem with a story about another character identified as being in that group and where the story basically wiped away all the struggles that members of that group face. By creating a story (again, I'd refer to it as almost being a fairy-tale) where a trans character never is shown having to actually deal with the kinds of injustices that real trans characters face, doesn't that cheapen those struggles?

I guess in the bigger picture of the comic, it seems like Jeph mainly creates characters that he likes and would want to be friends with. Homophobia, transphobia, racism... these things are essentially absent from the world of QC simply by the fact that they don't appear in any of the comic strips. Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types? I can understand why he would want to create characters that he himself genuinely likes, but it kind of detracts from the whole idea that Claire or this relationship is particularly special, and makes her brother's reaction about her telling Martin about her gender type kind of silly. Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

[BenRG]

Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types?

• The clothing store manager who refused to even interview May on the ground that she was an AI and he doesn't give jobs to robots;
• The preacher who upset Momo by loudly declaring that AIs are not people because they have no 'souls'.

Oddly enough, when Jeph wants to have discrimination in his comic, he usually parodies it by directing it at AIs (a fictional group that generally will get the reader's sympathy). By doing this, his objective seems to be to pose the question: "If you oppose discrimination against AIs, why do you accept or even support discrimination against [group] in real life?"

I would add that Clinton's protective behaviour implies that, even though it has happened off-panel, transgender people still face some discrimination, violence and exploitation and he is hyper-aware of how vulnerable Claire is to this.

[bhtooefr]

There's also Peter Bianchi, and his dismissal of Dora's bisexuality as a phase... not actually gender type discrimination, but...

And, Meena had some off-screen discrimination as well, for racial discrimination.

[TheEvilDog]

And then Marten wakes up from his years long coma, having fallen down the stairs going to the bar in the first comic.
The previous 2890 comics have been Marten attempting to get back to the land of the living.






What? Sometimes I like to live up to the Evil part of my name.

[lepetitfromage]

Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?

Because this particular group of friends is an open-minded, generally respectful group with decent morals. We don't see the assholes because they don't hang out with them- doesn't mean they don't exist.

[jheartney]

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?

[Zalder]

Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?

Because this particular group of friends is an open-minded, generally respectful group with decent morals. We don't see the assholes because they don't hang out with them- doesn't mean they don't exist.

They live in a liberal college town in Western Mass, it might not be totally super 100% progressive but odds are likely that in a tight knit group like theirs, racist, homophobic, misogenyst dbags can more readily be avoided than elsewhere in the U.S

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

Re: Realism. In other words, the "Unrealistic Good Guy Marten", "Where's the struggle?", etc.

Marten first. I'm splitting this into two. "Unrealistic character growth" and "Unrealistic that anyone would be so perfect for this situation". With the latter, the bare existence of one such person would contradict it. We've seen people claim to be a-ok with the possibility of not letting it get in the way of understanding, attraction, and dare I say love? I suspect there is a sizable number of such people trawling this forum. If it's unrealistic that such a person should meet such a situation, I tell you to never underestimate the power of self-sorting. People find people who welcome them. As to unrealistic character growth, it's been months since Claire came out to Marten. He's had ample time to turn things over in his head and get over internalized shit as best he could. First for the sake of a friend, who he knew was no different because he's goddamn reasonable. Then, for deeper reasons more recently. Perhaps the wedding cuddle caused him to turn additional things over in his head some time before they started going out? What I'm saying is Marten's the sort of "think-before-I-act" person who would overanalyze shit to such a degree, it'd make half this thread blush as they see themselves in him.

And struggle? That gets back to self-sorting. They're in Northampton, she works at SMIF's library, and they frequent a coffee shop owned by Marten's bi ex-goth ex. They run in accepting circles in one of the most liberal parts of the country. If we get any information about struggle, it'll be a flashback or a retelling. She chooses who she associates with carefully by this point. A story about struggle would, by necessity, be a story about the past.

Holy hell. I didn't set out to write an essay, I swear.

[Technetium]

Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?

Because this particular group of friends is an open-minded, generally respectful group with decent morals. We don't see the assholes because they don't hang out with them- doesn't mean they don't exist.

Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that. If it were that easy you could just tell every trans person "don't hang out with transphobic people and your problems are all solved." It's great that the main cast here is all open-minded but they will still inadvertently encounter close-minded people in their lives.

Also, I argue that it would make for a more compelling story where close-minded characters exist, are seen interacting with the rest of the characters, and learn to change how they see the people that they had previously been bigoted against. There's something kind of ironic about saying that you refuse to communicate with someone else that isn't as open-minded as you are.

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?

I think he handles the alcoholism issues fairly well, or at least better than the trans issues, I'll give him that. Although it's really not that dark of a story, as Faye immediately has friends that want to help her recover and she has pretty much zero denial after waking up in the hospital, while in real life many alcoholics are literally on their own because nobody cares if they live or die, and they don't even want to listen to the ones that do care, and they drink away the remainder of their lives because of that. Yes, personal experience here...

[efrumttr]

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?

I think you missed his point competely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.

[St.Clair]

Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.

Heaven forbid we should seek something other (and/or 'better') than life and gritty realism in our fiction.

When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc?  To put the occasion in the proper perspective.

[efrumttr]

Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.

When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc?  To put the occasion in the proper perspective.

What the hell? Nobody in this thread is saying anything close to that.

[Zebediah]

There is a place for aspirational stories as well as realistic stories. Look, we all know the world sucks. But every once in a while it's nice to be reminded that the world doesn't have to suck and could, in fact, be made to suck less than it does. Because if we can't imagine the world being a better place, it never will be.

[eschaton]

I think you missed his point completely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.

I think this is a difficult tightrope to walk however.  On one hand, it's true that if you excised a few coming out strips, along with like two strips since they started dating, there has been nothing to signify that Claire isn't cis in the comic.  This could be seen as problematic, the same way that putting a black character whose blackness is just an arbitrary assignment of race to a character* would be.  On the other hand Claire should be her own person, and her trans status should not define everything about her.  She doesn't have to speak for all trans people everywhere.

*  Dale was arguably black when he was first introduced, but I'm pretty sure he isn't any longer. 

[HeavyP]

And then Marten wakes up from his years long coma, having fallen down the stairs going to the bar in the first comic.
The previous 2890 comics have been Marten attempting to get back to the land of the living.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF........

Alternate Response: "Is this the real life?  Is this just fantasy?"

Edit: I have you one-upped.  This is the last strip of QC.  The next will be Alice from Alice Grove sitting bolt upright in bed and saying "That....was the most bizarre dream I have EVER had!  No more five alarm chili before bed."

[DillyDolly]

Marten may have done this off-panel.  Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph.  But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me.  Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring.  That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).

Or he doesn't want to make her feel self-conscious—or he just doesn't care, or he's more concerned with being present with her than checking out her naughty bits. Given they live in a world that has robots who are citizens and body parts that can be effortlessly replaced with cyborg implants, I really wouldn't be surprised if being trans is as huge of a deal as it is in our own world.

And honestly, I really don't care to analyze it beyond that. It is a beautiful strip either way—and that is probably what Jeph intended (though none of us will know unless he wants to talk about it or we can read minds ).

[St.Clair]

Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.

When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc?  To put the occasion in the proper perspective.

What the hell? Nobody in this thread is saying anything close to that.

But it's real, isn't it?  It's true.  It's "life".  And we should acknowledge that, and never forget it, and remind people of it whenever anyone tries to say different, or is in an inappropriately good mood about anything.

[/sarcasm]

[Neko_Ali]

I like the fact that if someone came into this not knowing Claire was trans, the comic today would still work. Clearly we have a girl getting nervous in front of a guy for the first time, hoping for his approval, with a hint that she is nervous about her body. That's a universal thing, not a transgender thing. "I hope my partner likes/accepts me." It could just as easily be nervousness about all her freckles, or or small breasts, or that giant mole on her butt the shape of Abraham Lincoln, who knows? The comic still works.

[Technetium]

Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.

Heaven forbid we should seek something other (and/or 'better') than life and gritty realism in our fiction.

When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc?  To put the occasion in the proper perspective.

Of course not. But this is a comic that has developed into exploring the foibles of human interaction, primarily in relationships, and in most cases it seems the writer wants to try to represent "issues" that people deal with in real life that might not be written about as much in other fiction. So it's reasonable to ask for those issues to be relevant to the struggles real people face.

There is a place for aspirational stories as well as realistic stories. Look, we all know the world sucks. But every once in a while it's nice to be reminded that the world doesn't have to suck and could, in fact, be made to suck less than it does. Because if we can't imagine the world being a better place, it never will be.

I want the world to be a better place, too. But that doesn't mean it needs to happen easily.

Look at it this way... What story would make Claire a more inspirational, brave character? One where she is never actually shown facing transphobia or even talking about having faced it, and everyone accepts her automatically, and she gets the relationship she always dreamed of with basically little effort at all? Or one in which she explains that some bad things have happened in her past regarding her gender type, where she has to deal with a friend who isn't completely accepting once that friend finds out, and where her boyfriend that she puts all her trust in exhibits some symptoms of having some suppressed issues with her gender that he doesn't want to hurt her with talking about, but in spite of all that she perseveres and gets enough of what she wants that she's generally happy with her life?

[Emperor Norton]

You also have to remember that very very few people know. Marten, Emily, Clinton, and Claire-Mom are the only people we KNOW in the comic actually know.

So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.

The area I live in is pretty blue (though not as blue as Northampton), but well... I don't tend to really face much discrimination. At worst I hear people occasionally say something that erases bisexuality, but I just respond to it and move on. Almost nothing is actually directed at me, because, well, most people just don't know.

I feel its pretty realistic for someone who is in a group that is discriminated against, with only a very select group of people they trust knowing, who lives in a massively liberal area, to not face much direct discrimination.

That being said, just the fact that I feel that hiding it leads to less trouble, is pretty shitty in and of itself. And I think about that in my own life. But... Its just easier not to be vocal about it if I don't need to. It sucks, but its practical.

[gprimr1]

Yeah but come, life doesn't work like that.

When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc?  To put the occasion in the proper perspective.

What the hell? Nobody in this thread is saying anything close to that.

But it's real, isn't it?  It's true.  It's "life".  And we should acknowledge that, and never forget it, and remind people of it whenever anyone tries to say different, or is in an inappropriately good mood about anything.

[/sarcasm]

Many people do say grace before a meal. It is a way of acknowledging that you could be much worse off and to be thankful for what you have. So in a way, yes, many people do.

[Emperor Norton]

I like the fact that if someone came into this not knowing Claire was trans, the comic today would still work. Clearly we have a girl getting nervous in front of a guy for the first time, hoping for his approval, with a hint that she is nervous about her body. That's a universal thing, not a transgender thing. "I hope my partner likes/accepts me." It could just as easily be nervousness about all her freckles, or or small breasts, or that giant mole on her butt the shape of Abraham Lincoln, who knows? The comic still works.

I'm a guy, but I still feel this way. I gained a bit of weight around my midsection when I went from doing a construction job to a job where I work at home. I get nervous about having my shirt off around people, like swimming, etc.

[Fig]

I like the fact that if someone came into this not knowing Claire was trans, the comic today would still work. Clearly we have a girl getting nervous in front of a guy for the first time, hoping for his approval, with a hint that she is nervous about her body. That's a universal thing, not a transgender thing. "I hope my partner likes/accepts me." It could just as easily be nervousness about all her freckles, or or small breasts, or that giant mole on her butt the shape of Abraham Lincoln, who knows? The comic still works.

That's how I read it.  Hell, if I was in her situation I'd feel exactly the same say since it's been a loooooooong time since I've been naked in front of another person. 

[gprimr1]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

[Fig]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

All we know is that she's been on HRT.  I don't think this is something we will ever know.

[DillyDolly]

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

We just had a harrowing story arc with depression, heartbreak, alcoholism and a self-destructive slide into near-death. And you think Jeph should go darker?

I think you missed his point competely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.

With that logic, Jeph is also a terrible author for not making Dale get pulled over by cops and treated like differently by a number of the white character, because how dare he include black character and not make a social statement of the injustices of African Americans. And why does he even include robots? They are just machines!

It's a fictional comic set in the future...or at least a different Earth than that of our own. If we can have robot citizens and cybernetic implants, it is easy to believe the society would be more accepting of *human* people. I'm actually happy to see minority characters that are being used for MORE than making political/societal statements.

[DillyDolly]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?

[aphanisis81]

Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types?

• The clothing store manager who refused to even interview May on the ground that she was an AI and he doesn't give jobs to robots;
• The preacher who upset Momo by loudly declaring that AIs are not people because they have no 'souls'.

Oddly enough, when Jeph wants to have discrimination in his comic, he usually parodies it by directing it at AIs (a fictional group that generally will get the reader's sympathy). By doing this, his objective seems to be to pose the question: "If you oppose discrimination against AIs, why do you accept or even support discrimination against [group] in real life?"

I would add that Clinton's protective behaviour implies that, even though it has happened off-panel, transgender people still face some discrimination, violence and exploitation and he is hyper-aware of how vulnerable Claire is to this.

WRT the AI discrimination, that seems simply non-comparable to me. AI Rights aren't a real thing and Jeph has never really hinted that they're meant as an allegory for real-world struggles. And even within the comic's diegesis, AI is essentially a manmade phenomenon (mostly courtesy of Hannerdad), a non-organic arrangement of sophisticated circuitry, whereas race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender identity et al. are engrained human traits.

I don't necessarily think all minority or typically-discriminated-again/non-privileged groups have to experience bigotry in-comic in order for the comic to be believable - I agree with the person who pointed out the thin line between social realism and tokenism - but if those AI incidents are the only counterexamples to Technetium's observation, then I think Technetium is on solid ground.