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Poll

Well, Valentine's Day is Past! What now?

The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize
- 8 (9.6%)
The Talk, Phase 2
- 10 (12%)
Faye meets Keeper Hannelore
- 6 (7.2%)
Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"
- 1 (1.2%)
Dora Does Guilt-Trip
- 24 (28.9%)
Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives
- 13 (15.7%)
Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)
- 21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 83

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 15   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)  (Read 30146 times)

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #100 on: 15 Feb 2015, 23:56 »

I think just about everyone's aware of how Penelope is supposed to be pronounced. It's just a callback to Faye's preferred pronunciation (Pen-Ah-lope).

Broken Lizard's Club Dread taught me it's Peen-ah-lope. That is now the way we say her name forever.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #101 on: 15 Feb 2015, 23:57 »

Well, Dora has to give some explanation, otherwise there will be endless speculation and concern. "She quit" is probably not good enough, as usually this is not an abrupt thing. "I had to fire her", without further explanation, should be sufficient. But "she was drunk at work" is decidedly unprofessional. It is Dora's damned duty not to spread rumors about former employees.

I imagine if Dora were thinking completely rationally about the situation she would not be saying all of this to Penelope. However, we should keep in mind that this is not just an boss firing a worker, this is also a personal issue for Dora. My guess is that she is torn between feeling like Faye betrayed her trust and feeling like she is the one who betrayed Faye (hence the rationalization). That is not a mindset that seems conducive to tactfulness.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #102 on: 16 Feb 2015, 00:04 »

Even at a large company, details sometimes get published. An accomplished co-worker of mine disappeared, people were initially tight-lipped, then HR announced he'd been fired for viewing porn at work.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #103 on: 16 Feb 2015, 00:16 »

I don't think Dora is being stupid or heartless or anything of the sort. She's done what she needed to. Giving Faye the boot is good for Faye and for CoD as a business.  As for discussing it with Penelope/other members of staff, I work in a west country pub part-time, which is probably a similar size of business staff-wise to Coffee of Doom, and I don't think it's ridiculous to tell other people why someone's been fired - serves as a warning (not really necessary at CoD tbh) and also quashes any rumours/gossip before it takes root. Perfectly reasonable. (Although if people got fired at my place for being drunk at work there would never be any staff)

I know the point of today's comic is Dora's trait of second guessing herself, so I kind of hope there's no backsliding on her part.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #104 on: 16 Feb 2015, 00:21 »

I know the point of today's comic is Dora's trait of second guessing herself, so I kind of hope there's no backsliding on her part.

Even if Dora is second-guessing herself, it seems like Faye doesn't really want to return to CoD, so Dora backsliding probably wouldn't get very far.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #105 on: 16 Feb 2015, 00:24 »

It's probably better for Faye if she doesn't come back. Probably Dora too, but Faye really ought to move on. She can do other things she just never tried and/or sabotaged herself.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #106 on: 16 Feb 2015, 02:03 »

Well, Dora has to give some explanation, otherwise there will be endless speculation and concern. "She quit" is probably not good enough, as usually this is not an abrupt thing. "I had to fire her", without further explanation, should be sufficient. But "she was drunk at work" is decidedly unprofessional. It is Dora's damned duty not to spread rumors about former employees.

I imagine if Dora were thinking completely rationally about the situation she would not be saying all of this to Penelope. However, we should keep in mind that this is not just an boss firing a worker, this is also a personal issue for Dora. My guess is that she is torn between feeling like Faye betrayed her trust and feeling like she is the one who betrayed Faye (hence the rationalization). That is not a mindset that seems conducive to tactfulness.

It's also not spreading rumours: it's the truth. Faye was drunk at work, and she was fired for it.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #107 on: 16 Feb 2015, 02:13 »

It's also not spreading rumours: it's the truth. Faye was drunk at work, and she was fired for it.

If Dora had asked her lawyer, he or she probably would have advised to tell the others that Faye was dismissed and it is none of their business why - they can ask Faye if they're that interested in her personal life and good luck to them.

However, this isn't a situation in which coldly rational logic reigns. Dora is Faye's friend as well as (ex-) employer. It isn't easy firing friends, especially when said friends, although you hadn't realised it, were in an emotional death spiral. She's venting to deal with her own emotional turmoil and I doubt that she's thinking about how she's potentially violating Faye's privacy with the member of staff who, IMO at least, disliked her the most.

FWIW, the most solid repercussion of this conversation may be that Faye is denied service for life at The Horrible Revelation. However, it's not exactly her kind of watering hole anyway.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #108 on: 16 Feb 2015, 02:17 »

Also, isn't it kind of unprofessional to discuss the termination of one employee with another?

I think it's reasonable to say X is fired for the following reason: $reason because it makes a point to the staff that this happened for a reason, that the rules/policies need to be adhered to, etc. People need to know that the rules are important and they need reassurance that the firing wasn't random and arbitrary or due to financial issues with the business, so that they don't worry about their own job.

It would be wrong to be 'gossiping' about the gory details of who said what to whom during the actual firing, of course it would, but I don't think Dora is doing that.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #109 on: 16 Feb 2015, 02:40 »

She's talking about it an awful lot, though, and to the wrong person. Other employees of the CoD - especially Penelope who can't stand Faye - are the worst venting place she could have chosen, even Tai would have been a better pick. Especially at a semi-public place with customers and everything. Yes, Faye has a problem, but advertising it like that? It's not her place.
We've talked an awful lot about how 'Boss Dora' made the right decision for her business and all that - but being a boss entails being responsible and professional enough to wait a few hours to vent. (Or just ask Penelope to mind the business for five minutes while she calls somebody)
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #110 on: 16 Feb 2015, 02:47 »

I just think of her as Pen-Pen

Pen2 is a more sympathetic character, though, and he doesn't give a damn about anything.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #111 on: 16 Feb 2015, 02:52 »

She's talking about it an awful lot, though, and to the wrong person.

Which is an easy conclusion to reach when you aren't the person who is doing it because of an intense personal pain and sense of guilt. Whilst we can criticise Dora's actions (perhaps rightly), remember that this is a story and Jeph has to consider how his characters' emotions and various issues would affect their behaviour. This leaves them doing things that we, from the ivory tower of detached logic and morality, may consider wrong but nonetheless rings true to their characters.

In my view, Jeph is 'hitting' more than 'missing' in believable characterisation in terms of immediate and human responses to personal challenges, even if some readers feel that what they're doing is wrong.
« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2015, 02:58 by BenRG »
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #112 on: 16 Feb 2015, 03:33 »

I think it's reasonable to say X is fired for the following reason: $reason because it makes a point to the staff that this happened for a reason, that the rules/policies need to be adhered to, etc.

You could still do that by saying she was fired for violating the terms of her employments contract/breaking the rules/whatever without being specific. That would underline that the rules are taken seriously, without explicitly giving too much away.

In this case, though, I really think it doesn't matter. By divulging more than strictly necessary Dora hasn't actually done anything illegal, just morally questionable.

And what BenRG said...
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #113 on: 16 Feb 2015, 04:01 »

Quote
You could still do that by saying she was fired for violating the terms of her employments contract/breaking the rules/whatever without being specific. That would underline that the rules are taken seriously, without explicitly giving too much away.

Except that if you do not specify which particular clause was not respected, it will lead to speculation. I think Dora is getting more heat than she deserves here. It also stresses to the other employees you can f*** up too much at the CoD, even if you are the boss' best friend.
Her tone, however, may not be the most adequate, here.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #114 on: 16 Feb 2015, 04:04 »

Boo, hiss. Dora should not be suffering second thoughts.

Yeah, she doesn't need to rationalize OR Justify what she did, Faye deserved to be fired, she came in drunk, LIED about being drunk, then snuck off to drink more >C That's breaking Dora's trust, she was willing to /lie/ to her to just have more booze. :x
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #115 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:02 »

I might not be the first to ask this, but I don't have time to read back forum posts:

What's everyone's read on Dora's final line? I think we can read it to ways:

1. Dora is, via rhetorical question, indicating to Penny that she's rationalizing it to herself, not to Penny. To make this reading work, I feel like we need to imagine that the word "you" is in boldface or italics or otherwise emphasized.

2. Dora doesn't even realize that what she's doing is rationalizing. This would be in character, and remarkably similar to her interactions with her therapist. Basically, it would be Dora explicitly revealing something about her own psychological state through her verbalized thought process, yet remaining oblivious to what she's revealing.

I lean toward Option #1, but I'm not certain.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #116 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:04 »

I'm inclined to agree with the idea that she's monologuing with an audience.  Pen2 is basically there so she's not just talking to herself.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #117 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:07 »

I'm inclined to agree with the idea that she's monologuing with an audience.  Pen2 is basically there so she's not just talking to herself.

Monologuing with herself. I like it. Perfect encapsulation of the implications of Option #1.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #118 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:29 »

Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!

If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?)  then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...

...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters!  The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was.  She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry.  All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something.  Whitman.  or Whitacre. Whitaker.  That's it.  Whitaker.

And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes.   :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #119 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:45 »

I think that Dora feels guilty for not giving her friend enough support in times of need.

[...] especially Penelope who can't stand Faye [...]
What ? Anyone got any evidence for that ?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #120 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:47 »

[...] especially Penelope who can't stand Faye [...]


What ? Anyone got any evidence for that ?

There are two threads of evidence - Firstly, Penny is the only member of staff who has called Faye out when she becomes abusive. Secondly, when Dora made Faye assistant manager, Penny offered to quit immediately.

Personally, I wouldn't say Penny "can't stand" Faye - She wouldn't work at CoD if it was that bad. However, I would say that Penny has the worst relationship with Faye of all the members of staff.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #121 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:48 »

Pretty much every Faye and Pen-Pen interaction ever. She tried to walk out and quit when Faye became assistant manager. And I don't think it was a joke.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #122 on: 16 Feb 2015, 06:51 »

[...] especially Penelope who can't stand Faye [...]


What ? Anyone got any evidence for that ?

There are two threads of evidence - Firstly, Penny is the only member of staff who has called Faye out when she becomes abusive. Secondly, when Dora made Faye assistant manager, Penny offered to quit immediately.

Personally, I wouldn't say Penny "can't stand" Faye - She wouldn't work at CoD if it was that bad. However, I would say that Penny has the worst relationship with Faye of all the members of staff.

Agreed. "Can't stand" might be strong, but almost all of their interactions are antagonistic. Even the one mini-arc that had just the two of them outside of CoD (Penny rousting Faye from bed to go work out) was rife with insults and needling that seemed - to me at least - a bit less jocular than how Faye and Dora would rag on each other. And I don't think Penny or Cosette was kidding when they immediately said "I quit." Obviously, they were talked out of it, but in the moment that they said it, I think they were sincere.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #123 on: 16 Feb 2015, 07:11 »

being friends with your boss/employees can be good and enjoyable but it can also be harsh and hurt emotionally when things that need to happen happen. I mean some things are alright. Telling them they are getting a raise, but telling them they have to work this weekend, they aren't getting a bonus this year, their job is being outsourced, so many other things can be awful to tell your friend and because it was you that told them they connect it to you and as someone they see outside of work it lingers a lot longer than it would otherwise.

Now what if your friend had problems, but they kept it seperate from work for a long time. Not the best comparison, but lets say someone worked at a support hotline for people that were (trigger potential idk) raped. And the person answering the calls has had that experience, but managed to not linger on it almost instantly because hey different people handle things differently. Now they can be good because they experienced it, but also they need to know not everyone operates the same way. The first time they said to the calling rape victim something like "You are still freaking out three years later? Suck it up and move on" they would probably be fired because even in places where certain topics/things aren't seen as unprofessional. (in this case talking about rape because not many places would talk about that super openly) there are still rules to follow.

The hard part is in the small businesses like COD well you connect with those you work with in a similar reason why you befriended those you went to school with. You are together for a long time consantly so you connnect. Especially the boss who would have to deal with them all. Heck they would probably be more picky about hiring people they can get along with even if that person isn't the most qualified. I mean %#@%@ I know i probably would. You use running dungeons and dragons to show leadership and problem solving skills. bonus points in the interview. You talk about your love of twilight and fifty shades of gray you better hope you are my only applicant.

bah I am rambling stupidly. I'll shut up now.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #124 on: 16 Feb 2015, 08:25 »

Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!

If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?)  then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...

...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters!  The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was.  She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry.  All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something.  Whitman.  or Whitacre. Whitaker.  That's it.  Whitaker.

And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes.   :psyduck:

Claire wouldn't live that down. Seriously.

(click to show/hide)

Thankfully, that won't happen. Even if that was the case, Claire does know that Faye's last name is Whitaker and that one shouldn't really mess with the Pugnacious Peach right now.

Although it'd be more than enough reason to put the extra line on his tombstone like FayeMom wanted to.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #125 on: 16 Feb 2015, 09:36 »

I have a disturbingly weird idea of where this go could but I'll shush about it.  That being said, I'm sure she'll vent about it to Tai.   She may have another view on things having some distance but who knows.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #126 on: 16 Feb 2015, 10:29 »

Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!

Either that or the way Clinton lost his hand was an accident suffered while firing Augustusdad from a cannon.

I know they're not all that in to watching TV (outside of YouTube clips, anime and the occasional bad movie), but it might be about time someone turned on the TV and saw Angus.

It's possible that Angus might have only been gone for a few days at this stage. He's probably still working on material for the show.
Of course, that being said, Angus being successful might trigger something of a lapse for Faye. But that's several weeks down the line, be it real time or after a time skip in the comic, but after wrapping up some of the current threads.

It's entirely possible to see someone long after you've been involved with them and not have it trigger massive depression and self-loathing, y'know. On one hand, you can be reminded of why you liked someone and be glad they were in your life when they were but realize that in the interim, you're both better off where you are than where you were. On the other hand, you can also be reminded of certain of the other person's personality traits and habits that make you realize you really dodged a bullet by not being with them.

Quote
You could still do that by saying she was fired for violating the terms of her employments contract/breaking the rules/whatever without being specific. That would underline that the rules are taken seriously, without explicitly giving too much away.

Except that if you do not specify which particular clause was not respected, it will lead to speculation. I think Dora is getting more heat than she deserves here. It also stresses to the other employees you can f*** up too much at the CoD, even if you are the boss' best friend.
Her tone, however, may not be the most adequate, here.

I think the tone's the thing. Most of the times that I had to fire someone were because of issues that were obvious to everyone (things like incompetence or chronic lateness). Once or twice, I had to fire someone for theft. If anyone asked where so-and-so was, I kept it short, sweet, and factual: we caught them stealing. They're gone now. Period, end of story. You don't go into what you think of that person's character, how you do or don't feel about them now that they're gone, et cetera. IOW, it sends the message that there are lines you don't cross, without getting into other things that aren't necessary.

Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!

If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?)  then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...

...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters!  The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was.  She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry.  All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something.  Whitman.  or Whitacre. Whitaker.  That's it.  Whitaker.

And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes.   :psyduck:

Except: Faye's older, so the Augustuseseses would've been the "other" family (though they wouldn't be to themselves, obviously), and I'm also sure that an absence that long from Faye's life would've been noted long before Claire was even a character.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #127 on: 16 Feb 2015, 10:48 »

No doubt Penelope probably heard about Faye being hospitalised or was wondering why Faye was taken off the roster. So she could either go straight to the horse's mouth and ask Dora what happened, or talk to Faye and get her (most likely) skewed take on the matter. And let's face it, Penelope...not Faye's biggest fan.

I can see Penelope doing a little happy dance over Faye being gone when no one else (but us readers) is looking.

This also opens up the possibility of Penelope becoming the new assistant manager, as she is now the most senior person there after Dora. Although now that could mean a new strain on Dora; she's somewhat reticent on hiring people at times and this thing with Faye is a breach of trust, might just kick Dora's tendency to be overly controlling into overdrive. More hours to work to cover Faye being fired, taking on yet more work onto herself, Dora is going to suffer as much as Faye.

I would be very surprised if Dora promoted anyone else to assistant manager anytime soon, for all the reasons you mentioned. After all, look what happened when she promoted Faye. She's probably more convinced than ever that no one else can be trusted to run CoD like she does, which means she'll be putting in extra time to make sure things go right. I expect her relationship with Tai to suffer as a result - hard to keep an SO when you have no time to spend with them.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #128 on: 16 Feb 2015, 11:04 »

Oh look at that, Jeph fixed Dora's eyes.  :clairedoge:

Also I didn't vote for Sam asking for help in the poll, mostly because I don't really see Jeph taking that route, but I do think that Faye's connection to Sam could be very therapeutic. Spending time with people who radiate positivity can help you do the same, I've found.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #129 on: 16 Feb 2015, 11:11 »

I can't imagine Faye's dad also being Claire's dad.  The logistics seem too wonky.  On the other hand I can imagine Faye's father being Renee's father, as the result of an affair he had, and that finding out he had a daughter he'd effectively abandoned drove him to suicide.  Of course this is Questionable Content  and not The Young and the Restless, so such a plotline seems extremely unlikely.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #130 on: 16 Feb 2015, 11:11 »

This also opens up the possibility of Penelope becoming the new assistant manager, as she is now the most senior person there after Dora. Although now that could mean a new strain on Dora; she's somewhat reticent on hiring people at times and this thing with Faye is a breach of trust, might just kick Dora's tendency to be overly controlling into overdrive. More hours to work to cover Faye being fired, taking on yet more work onto herself, Dora is going to suffer as much as Faye.

I would be very surprised if Dora promoted anyone else to assistant manager anytime soon, for all the reasons you mentioned. After all, look what happened when she promoted Faye. She's probably more convinced than ever that no one else can be trusted to run CoD like she does, which means she'll be putting in extra time to make sure things go right. I expect her relationship with Tai to suffer as a result - hard to keep an SO when you have no time to spend with them.

Precisely.
Dora has several failings and the worst is her need to be in control. Faye is her closest friend and her drinking on the job feels like a massive betrayal. Dora's world is already receding into a much smaller space - She already lives in Amherst, she's cut Sven out of her life, she's working a ridiculous amount of hours every day. The only people Dora seems to be close to now seem to be Marten, Hanners and Tai and I'm guessing that two of them aren't going to be able to hang out as much as they used to.
Something is going to give and I suspect it's going to happen soon.
« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2015, 11:50 by TheEvilDog »
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swapna

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #131 on: 16 Feb 2015, 11:30 »

[edited for brevity]

Dora's world is already receding into a much smaller space - She already lives in Amherst, she's cut Sven out of her life, she's working a ridiculous amount of hours every day. The only people Dora seems to be close to now seem to Marten, Hanners and Tai and I'm guessing that two of them aren't going to be able to hang out as much as they used to.
Something is going to give and I suspect it's going to happen soon.

I hadn't considered that, but you're right - Dora's isolating herself more than I noticed. I don't know if she has cut Sven out of her life yet (I only remember the announcement to Marten - not even Tai). I also don't know how close she's with Hanners (as far as I remember, she's Martens and Fayes friend, not so much Doras. I can't remember when they interacted one on one, but I could be very wrong).

Probably this is writing her out, but I think you're pretty much spot-on and this leads to more Dora-related drama.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #132 on: 16 Feb 2015, 11:37 »

I think that today's strip is starting to show that Dora is having second thoughts about her reaction to Faye.  Fact is, she could (should) have told her to leave and get help before she thinks about coming back.  She could have been supportive.  Faye has been doping really well lately, but Angus leaving has really thrown he for a loop that Dora did not foresee.  Dora has been wrapped up in her own world with Tai and COD and has neglected her best friend.
I think Tai is going to unload on Dora when she hears of what happened.  Tai loves that they are all friends and will hate the fact that Dora and Faye are on the outs.  I see her as being a game changer here.  The Marten and Claire story will intertwine into this drama but be mostly on the outskirts for a bit while the Faye/Dora story is dealt with.  I don't see any major character change or leaving here - they are all key to the QC family.  But that's just IMHO.    :claireface:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #133 on: 16 Feb 2015, 11:51 »

Faye has been doping really well lately, but Angus leaving has really thrown he for a loop that Dora did not foresee.  Dora has been wrapped up in her own world with Tai and COD and has neglected her best friend.

Dora is not Fayes keeper, Dora is not Faye's keeper, Dora is NOT Faye's keeper!

Saying that Dora is not a supportive friend to Faye, but not coming down JUST AS HARD on Marten for the exact same thing is such fucking bullshit.

I don't care who you are, your friends are NOT responsible when you screw up.

Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!

I'm running a bit hot on this issue, but seriously, it's the fourth straight week of people going "Faye's drunk! Why isn't Dora doing anything about that?!"
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themacnut

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #134 on: 16 Feb 2015, 12:03 »

Many readers have a hard time understanding that it's very difficult to stop a friend/loved one from self-destructing, especially when said friend/loved one is being secretive about their self-destructive actions, and is as stubborn as, say, Faye (in other words, stubborn as the proverbial mule).

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swapna

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #135 on: 16 Feb 2015, 12:25 »

[edited]
Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!

I'm running a bit hot on this issue, but seriously, it's the fourth straight week of people going "Faye's drunk! Why isn't Dora doing anything about that?!"
I think it's a difference of culture. Firing somebody on the spot (no benefits, nothing) is seen as something normal for Americans, but other cultures have very different sensibilities. I think it's horrible that she can even do such a thing without proper procedure. (same with the insurance)

I think Tai is going to unload on Dora when she hears of what happened.  Tai loves that they are all friends and will hate the fact that Dora and Faye are on the outs.  I see her as being a game changer here.  The Marten and Claire story will intertwine into this drama but be mostly on the outskirts for a bit while the Faye/Dora story is dealt with.  I don't see any major character change or leaving here - they are all key to the QC family.  But that's just IMHO.    :claireface:
I don't know about Tai - she's high on the job, so she might have a different opinion. If she offers it to Dora, or even calls her out is another matter, since the last thing she wants is an argument.

(I hope some characters get written out - this comic has a lot and I could do with more connected and longer story-arcs and a little faster story progression)
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Kugai

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #136 on: 16 Feb 2015, 12:43 »

The moment I'm waiting for is when the two of them finally talk to each other.  That's gonna be one interesting conversation.


Next week on QC ..........
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #137 on: 16 Feb 2015, 12:51 »

[edited]
Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!
I think it's a difference of culture. Firing somebody on the spot (no benefits, nothing) is seen as something normal for Americans, but other cultures have very different sensibilities. I think it's horrible that she can even do such a thing without proper procedure. (same with the insurance)
The thing is, it doesn't matter if it was in America or Europe or South Africa, Faye was fired for being in breach of contract. She was drinking on the job. That's universally something that everyone can be fired for. I've worked in bars and even if someone buys you a drink, you have to leave it until the end of shift or when the bar closes.

The simple thing here, when you begin a job, you sign a contract. That contract is a promise from both employee and employer about what is acceptable and unacceptable in the workplace. Faye broke the terms of that contract by drinking on the job. In the end, it was Faye and Faye alone that got her fired. Dora was in every right to fire her.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #138 on: 16 Feb 2015, 12:58 »

Also, people aren't arguing that Dora is being a bad boss, they are arguing that Dora is being a bad friend. My comments about how Dora could have been a more supportive friend still fit, even when you take the "boss Dora" aspect out of the equation.

Even if someone is your best friend, even if you've known them for years, that does not obligate you to sacrifice your own well being and livelyhood in order to correct their mistakes.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #139 on: 16 Feb 2015, 13:09 »

What worries me with Penelope being told all this is that it risks to come back to Sven, through Wil. You folks remember why Dora decided to cut bridges with Sven?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #140 on: 16 Feb 2015, 13:44 »

I think I'd like to see Faye go to Dora and apologize for the breach of trust. Don't know when or if it'll happen, but it feels like the right move to me. (Note: And not as a prelude to begging for the job again, I think Faye knows that ship has sailed.)

EDIT: Schmorgluck: Aw hell.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #141 on: 16 Feb 2015, 14:24 »

Just to mention my eyes change color with my mood.  That's could be what's happening here.

Story idea follows....

(click to show/hide)

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #142 on: 16 Feb 2015, 14:42 »

Saying that Dora is not a supportive friend to Faye, but not coming down JUST AS HARD on Marten for the exact same thing is such fucking bullshit.

There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora.  Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem.  Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work.  Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.

I feel like I keep running back to this, but I see it as an important moment, Dora seriously dropped the friendship ball there.  And being shocked somehow when Faye came in drunk the next day and started drinking on the job, after having specifically told her she was going to do exactly those things, makes Dora seem stupider than we know her to be.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #143 on: 16 Feb 2015, 14:55 »

What worries me with Penelope being told all this is that it risks to come back to Sven, through Wil. You folks remember why Dora decided to cut bridges with Sven?

Sven has some maturing to do, but I don't think he would go that low as to go after Faye right now. I could see him trying to be kind and supportive.. and that being seen and misconstrued. But going after a girl who clearly turned  you down after breaking up and getting fired is really low.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #144 on: 16 Feb 2015, 14:58 »

Saying that Dora is not a supportive friend to Faye, but not coming down JUST AS HARD on Marten for the exact same thing is such fucking bullshit.

There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora.  Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem.  Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work.  Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.

I feel like I keep running back to this, but I see it as an important moment, Dora seriously dropped the friendship ball there.  And being shocked somehow when Faye came in drunk the next day and started drinking on the job, after having specifically told her she was going to do exactly those things, makes Dora seem stupider than we know her to be.

Exactly how did Dora "drop the friendship ball"? Faye had just broken up with her boyfriend in a somewhat terrible way less then a week before. Faye was going through a pretty shitty time. Don't know about you, but the last time I went through a breakup that bad, I downed an entire bottle of whiskey in one night. People want to avoid the pain and from Dora's perspective Faye was doing what everyone does. Hell, Faye is about as welcoming as a rattlesnake with a thorn in it's side at the best of times, and she's shown several times that she does not appreciate people trying to pry into her life.

I'm going to say this large and bold lettering, so everyone can be clear: DORA IS NOT FAYE'S KEEPER. DORA DOES NOT POSSESS ANY FORM OF OMNISCIENCE. FAYE IS NOT AN INFANT TO BE CODDLED. EVERY ACTION WAS HER CHOICE AND HER RESPONSIBILITY. IT IS NOT ON MARTEN OR DORA OR ANYONE ELSE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FAYE. FAYE IS A GROWN ASS WOMAN AND CAPABLE OF MAKING HER OWN DECISIONS AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HERSELF AND HERSELF ALONE!
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #145 on: 16 Feb 2015, 15:06 »

I feel really bad for Dora. She doesn't NEED to justify her actions to anyone including herself, but she will anyway because Faye is a friend.

We've seen Faye's knee-jerk reaction to thinking about Dora and CoD. I think Dora's going to be in for a rough time; she's gonna be hypersensitive to people's reactions about Faye, while all the while feeling like she might've done the wrong thing, and to top it off we still haven't seen Tai's reactions to this. I got a feeling this is gonna lead to our first Tai/Dora fisticuffs.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #146 on: 16 Feb 2015, 15:07 »


Dude. You're getting really close to the "protests too much" level. Are you sure you want to go there?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #147 on: 16 Feb 2015, 15:12 »

There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora.  Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem.  Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work.  Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.

Marten was just as familiar with Faye's history of alcoholic behaviour as Dora was, if not more so, as he lives with Faye. Marten also came home and found Faye drunk early in the day. A day or so before that he found her terribly hung over. Why didn't he connect the dots and so something about it? Clearly Faye was crying to Marten for help just as much as to Dora. If she didn't want Marten to see her drunk she could have gone out or stayed in her room. You could argue that she wanted him to find her drunk and do something.

And saying "Marten is so wrapped up with Claire, he's distracted and didn't pick up the signals Faye was sending!" but not saying "Dora is so wrapped up with work, she's distracted and didn't pick up the signals Faye was sending" is such fucking bullshit.

I'm not saying Marten should feel responsibility for Faye's situation, or that he helped contribute to it. I am saying that Dora is just as blameless as Marten is.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #148 on: 16 Feb 2015, 15:25 »

There's a critical difference between Marten and Dora.  Marten didn't know that Faye had a serious problem.  Whereas Faye told Dora to her face that she wanted to be drunk all the time, including while at work.  Dora's response was to tell her not to drink at work, and then drop the subject.

Marten was just as familiar with Faye's history of alcoholic behaviour as Dora was, if not more so, as he lives with Faye. Marten also came home and found Faye drunk early in the day. A day or so before that he found her terribly hung over. Why didn't he connect the dots and so something about it? Clearly Faye was crying to Marten for help just as much as to Dora. If she didn't want Marten to see her drunk she could have gone out or stayed in her room. You could argue that she wanted him to find her drunk and do something.

And saying "Marten is so wrapped up with Claire, he's distracted and didn't pick up the signals Faye was sending!" but not saying "Dora is so wrapped up with work, she's distracted and didn't pick up the signals Faye was sending" is such fucking bullshit.

I'm not saying Marten should feel responsibility for Faye's situation, or that he helped contribute to it. I am saying that Dora is just as blameless as Marten is.

And again, people keep ignoring Faye's penchant for sarcasm and dry humor, and especially so when she's hiding how she really feels. If people didn't catch on that she was serious, it's not surprising. She's damned good at covering up her emotional state, which is just about always with sarcasm. How people keep forgetting about this is beyond me.

And if she's covering it up and not admitting that she's feeling like shit, then again, that comes back to being Faye's fault, not Dora's for not picking up on it.
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aphanisis81

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #149 on: 16 Feb 2015, 15:40 »

A little perspective: These are people in their early 20s with a well-established collective lifestyle of drinking immoderately, especially in reaction to disappointments romantic and otherwise. It's true that Faye has been, from very early on, the one with the biggest problems and the biggest appetite for Kentucky corn juice, but to expect her friends to react to her post-Angus binges with interventions and such is simply not realistic. Say what you will about it, but that sort of hyper-responsible-adult course of action is not one that typical 20-somethings take. It's easy in hindsight to say "Why didn't they help her?!" In the moment, people have episodes like this (up to the hospitalization, not including) and people of that demographic roll with it, maybe worry a little, but not take concrete steps.

Yes, I'm generalizing like crazy here. I'm sure there are exceptions. But this is coming from my own experiences as a 20-something service industry employee in Northampton who had an extended social circle not at all unlike that in QC. Marten's and Dora's (non-) reactions strike me as completely realistic, and lamentable only after the fact.
« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2015, 15:45 by aphanisis81 »
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