Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize

8 (9.6%)

The Talk, Phase 2

10 (12%)

Faye meets Keeper Hannelore

6 (7.2%)

Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"

1 (1.2%)

Dora Does Guilt-Trip

24 (28.9%)

Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives

13 (15.7%)

Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)

21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!

If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?)  then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...

...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters!  The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was.  She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry.  All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something.  Whitman.  or Whitacre. Whitaker.  That's it.  Whitaker.

And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes.   

I haven't read all the way through the new replies yet, so excuse me if this has been said... Damn - that's a good way to really fuck with a reader's mind! I LIKE IT!

[Orkboy]

Dammit, are we back on the Dora-is-a-bitch train?  Well, remember to keeps your knees bent and roll when you hit the ground.  *jumps off the train*

Claire: So, uh, when I said my dad "left us", what I really mean is he shot himself in front of me...
Marten: Oh no, not this again!

If Claire didn't already know the Faye backstory (they revealed that to her when they were all on the couch before the "paddling," right?)  then this would be the perfect time for her to reveal that her anger at infidelity stems from when her dad left her family...

...because he had another family in secret, with another wife, and even two other daughters!  The last Claire heard, he was still living with that other family in Georgia, or whatever it was.  She hadn't checked up on him in a long time, because she was so angry.  All she knew that he was going by the last name "Whit..." something.  Whitman.  or Whitacre. Whitaker.  That's it.  Whitaker.

And then Claire can say: "Marten, why are you looking at me like that?" and then his head explodes.   

[Reaver]

Seriously, what is with this idea that Faye needs to be coddled nonstop? Dora's not her keeper, Marten's not her keeper, they are her friends, not her babysitters, Dora's got a buisness to run, bills to pay, a new relationship, her life can not be  all Faye, all the time, and don't forget Faye is being a pretty shitty friend herself, she LIED to her best friend who is also her boss, because at that moment the booze was more important than Dora's trust.


Warning - while you were typing a new comic has been updated saying that Dora is actually secretly Faye's mother! You may wish to review your post you twit.

[ASB84]

Dora's pretty much in a no-win situation, both in-universe and with a significant portion of the audience. It makes sense in-universe, because she's had to take harsh action against an employee who was also a close friend. The firing was justified - as she notes, it's what any other employer would have done - but logic and rationale is in conflict with her emotions and compassion. She was right to do what she did, but that doesn't make it any easier, or make her feel much better about it.

On a meta level, it's understandable too. She's a divisive character with traits that are going to rub the audience the wrong way. She's certainly erred before, though that doesn't mean she's automatically wrong about everything else; at the very least, there's the old adage of a stopped clock being right twice a day. Still, not every reader is going to be able to cut her some slack, because her past actions have inspired dislike (or at least annoyance) with a part of the audience. You could argue that some people take it a bit too far with their reactions, but it's still an understandable point of view.

All the same, I think the goalposts are constantly moved when it comes to Dora: "Faye broke the rules, but should've been given a warning and shown more compassion...OK, she was already warned and Dora's policy has been quite clear, so the firing is probably justified, but Dora needs to show compassion...OK, she showed that she understands Faye's going through a rough time, but she said the wrong thing when she mentioned insubordination (dialogue that I think was taken out of context, incidentally)...alright, it seems she really does care about Faye after she was rushed to hospital, and the stuff about the insurance is a nice gesture, but wait, she's really terrible for asking Hanners to pass on the message and stressing her out...yes, the firing is understandable, but how dare she mention it to other CoD employees?"

And on and on it goes. Dora can't win for trying, because no matter what she does, there's something wrong with the way she does it, or she didn't say exactly the right thing.

I don't think it was inappropriate to pass on a message through Hanners. She was very concerned about Faye, but knew that she wasn't exactly welcome at her bedside. I don't think it's inappropriate that she's talking to Penelope about this. It's a pretty informal place of work, with a group of employees who know each other fairly well. She's not divulging anything that isn't true (Faye was drunk at work, and she was fired for it), nor going into detail about Faye's problems. From a legal standpoint, I don't think there's much of a case against her at all.

That's something else I've noticed: the prospect of legal action being taken against Dora keeps coming up. A flimsy case aside, it seems like there are people who really want to see her suffer or be punished for firing Faye. Again, kind of understandable given she's a divisive character, but extreme, and a tad silly. She shouldn't be punished for doing, as she acknowledges, what any other employer would do. Furthermore, she is already suffering, because she feels terrible about having to fire a friend.

It is fair to wonder whether she could've been more supportive of Faye, as one of her closest friends. However, it seems they don't socialise as much as they used to, and with Faye's sarcasm and abrasiveness, as well as her secrecy and unwillingness to face unpleasant realities (she avoided the issue of Angus possibly having to move away as much as possible), it's asking a lot for Dora, or Marten, or anyone else to know the extent of her problems. As TheEvilDog pointed out, no one else is ultimately responsible for Faye, either; she may have "hella issues", but she's an adult, and she has to take responsibility for herself and her actions. Having compassion for Faye and holding her accountable for her actions are not mutually exclusive, and her problems are not a Get Out Of Jail Free Card, absolving her of any responsibility or wrongdoing.

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Seriously, what is with this idea that Faye needs to be coddled nonstop? Dora's not her keeper, Marten's not her keeper, they are her friends, not her babysitters, Dora's got a buisness to run, bills to pay, a new relationship, her life can not be  all Faye, all the time, and don't forget Faye is being a pretty shitty friend herself, she LIED to her best friend who is also her boss, because at that moment the booze was more important than Dora's trust.

YEAH! Pick on Faye too! Be equal about it.

... I'm not one to judge either of them, really. It's easy to find fault with one character or another, but in the end all that matters is what was lost; trust and friendship. Which is why I'm looking forward to the two characters both growing. In reality, that's the best you can expect in a situation like this... it's either that or become bitter. Too many people choose to become bitter.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to reflect upon a print of the Vinegar Tasters.

[swapna]

[edited]
Maybe Dora should have closed COD to better support Faye while she was going through a hard time. Dora could even sell CoD to help pay for Faye to go to rehab! Maybe Dora should have followed Faye around drinking all of the drinks before Faye could get to them!

I think it's a difference of culture. Firing somebody on the spot (no benefits, nothing) is seen as something normal for Americans, but other cultures have very different sensibilities. I think it's horrible that she can even do such a thing without proper procedure. (same with the insurance)

The thing is, it doesn't matter if it was in America or Europe or South Africa, Faye was fired for being in breach of contract. She was drinking on the job. That's universally something that everyone can be fired for. I've worked in bars and even if someone buys you a drink, you have to leave it until the end of shift or when the bar closes.

The simple thing here, when you begin a job, you sign a contract. That contract is a promise from both employee and employer about what is acceptable and unacceptable in the workplace. Faye broke the terms of that contract by drinking on the job. In the end, it was Faye and Faye alone that got her fired. Dora was in every right to fire her.

I didn't say she shouldn't have been fired. I just say the way she has been fired seems barbaric to me. Usually, even when there's a breach of contract and the employee has to be let go, the process is way longer and less sudden, which helps if you're prone to rash decisions, as Dora is. Again, repeating, not saying that Faye shouldn't have been fired, but to be just thrown out of a business you worked for for years feels like an unnecessary cruelty to me.

ASB84: I don't think it's that. There's just things you don't have to point out (Faye's a bitch, sometimes.. a lot of times.. She's got an alcohol problem.. she really didn't handle her break-up too well and so on), so it's more interesting to talk about the finer points of the issue. For example: As Marten saw Faye lying there in her own vomit, the first thing he did was call his girlfriend  that he might not make it to tonight's movie-date. Of course Faye's drinking-until-she-passed-out is the worse offence here, but that goes without saying. It's more interesting to talk about Marten's lack of responsible reaction.

[Mr. Black Licorice]

That's something else I've noticed: the prospect of legal action being taken against Dora keeps coming up. A flimsy case aside, it seems like there are people who really want to see her suffer or be punished for firing Faye. Again, kind of understandable given she's a divisive character, but extreme, and a tad silly. She shouldn't be punished for doing, as she acknowledges, what any other employer would do. Furthermore, she is already suffering, because she feels terrible about having to fire a friend.

Legal action was something I brought up... but not because I think she should be punished for firing Faye. I was trying to explain why companies don't disclose reasons for termination to other employees. For the most part, I feel sympathetic to both characters.

[Omega Entity]

For example: As Marten saw Faye lying there in her own vomit, the first thing he did was call his girlfriend  that he might not make it to tonight's movie-date. Of course Faye's drinking-until-she-passed-out is the worse offence here, but that goes without saying. It's more interesting to talk about Marten's lack of responsible reaction.

We're back to this again? At first glance, he probably thought she puked and simply fell asleep. He was close enough to see that she was breathing, and shot off a quick call to let Claire know what was up. Upon further investigation (that he was unable to rouse her), -that- was the point to be alarmed. Considering the group's drinking habits as a whole, it was a perfectly acceptable response. How many times has someone in the group puked from alcohol consumption, then slept it off?

Now, if he'd sat there and had a 20-minute conversation with Claire, then there'd be an issue. But I'm pretty sure it's the former, and not the latter.

[Omega Entity]

Sorry for the double post, but I'd argue that Marten was an -excellent- friend for immediately calling off his date, rather than simply planning on cleaning Faye up, putting her to bed, then going off on his way. The quick call illustrated that he was putting his friend's well-being first and opting to keep an eye on her, rather than leaving her alone.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

I just say the way she has been fired seems barbaric to me.

It's the US. Regarding labor, that's just how we are. Hail Reagan! 

[TRVA123]

I just say the way she has been fired seems barbaric to me.

It's the US. Regarding labor, that's just how we are. Hail Reagan! 

Also, from a storytelling perspective, immediate termination works better than "we're probably going to fire you, but stick around and work for a couple of days while I file paperwork about it"

[TheEvilDog]

Well looks like Yelling Bird is in his element.

[SubaruStephen]

The Yetis must be on Viagra to cover all that acreage...

[swapna]

Sorry for the double post, but I'd argue that Marten was an -excellent- friend for immediately calling off his date, rather than simply planning on cleaning Faye up, putting her to bed, then going off on his way. The quick call illustrated that he was putting his friend's well-being first and opting to keep an eye on her, rather than leaving her alone.

I was just making an argument No need to re-discuss this

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Is this when we all start chuckling like bevis and butthead saying "Yeti Jizz" over and over again? Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed my queue.

[Omega Entity]

Is this when we all start chuckling like bevis and butthead saying "Yeti Jizz" over and over again? Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed my queue.

Nope, the line is right where you left it 

[explicit]

Sexual jokes make explicit giggle.

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Sexual jokes make explicit giggle.

Heh, heh, heh - yeti jizz... heh, heh, heh!

[SubaruStephen]

"If your yeti ejaculations last longer than four months, consult your climatologist."

[explicit]

What's he gonna do about it, finish him off again? That clearly hasn't worked.

EDIT - I just thought of something, he's a bird, why's he hanging out in jizz when he can just fly? That's what does it, this comic now doesn't make any sense.

[hedgie]

The thing is, it doesn't matter if it was in America or Europe or South Africa, Faye was fired for being in breach of contract. She was drinking on the job. That's universally something that everyone can be fired for. I've worked in bars and even if someone buys you a drink, you have to leave it until the end of shift or when the bar closes.

Funny, it's just about the opposite at pretty much every bar that I have ever frequented.  Not only the bartenders, but frequently the kitchen and wait staff take shots when it's slow.  Granted, that's a potential liability, but it is still common practice.  Even the one time when I was working in a coffee shop and morning shift complained about what I did (or did not) do the night before, when I came in to get something to kill the hangover, I just told them to talk to the boss because he got pissed with me.  I think with Dora and Faye, it's the betrayal of trust rather than simply the boozing at work, since CoD seems to have a fair amount on hand.

[CasAttack]

I'm amazed at how many people are condemning Dora. Really, it is very simple: you don't drink at work.

Someone made a point about them being young and immature, which I disagree as Dora has been running her own business which is not something just anyone without adult scruples can pull off.

Someone mentioned drinking on the job as a norm in some places, but even ignoring the obvious fact that they're in a coffee shop and not a bar, the fact that many professional bars frown on bartenders and the like drinking with clientele, Faye was DRUNK and ignored the previous response of "no" when she asked point blank if she could have a drink at work.

Faye just was handed responsibility and massive amounts of trust in terms of a promotion the likes of which Dora has never made before. It's probably hitting Dora doubly hard because she might be feeling now that even promoting ANYONE was a bad idea, let alone an employee she trusted who had experience.

Faye was in the wrong. There's just no way around that. Even the youngest and dumbest of employees I've seen in past jobs knew not to drink at work or show up drunk. 

[TheEvilDog]

I think with Dora and Faye, it's the betrayal of trust rather than simply the boozing at work, since CoD seems to have a fair amount on hand.

See, even then the booze at CoD could have been big trouble for Dora, as there shouldn't be any on the premises without a liquor license and from the looks of it, Dora doesn't have it. Now, one might say it was a prop for a few jokes, but there was no way Dora was going to risk her livelihood by actually letting Faye drink.

This hasn't been the first time Faye was drinking on the job - Raven caught her drinking (this might have been right before Faye started therapy). I imagine if Raven had told Dora back then, she would have given Faye a severe dressing down (she probably wouldn't be able to fire her on the second hand account of another employee). But how many times would Faye have to be caught with a bottle to her lips before she had gotten fired? Yes, it was a betrayal of trust for Faye and Dora, but it was also Faye possibly screwing with Dora's livelihood.

[explicit]

We talked about this before, but simply put, the legal issues with a business having a drunk employee are staggering. If Faye hurt anyone (purposefully or accidentally) while working that day CoD could have been sued out of existence for negligence.

[TRVA123]

This is a nitpick, but I thought a liquor license was required to SELL liquor? technically, people can bring their own liquor as long as no one is selling it or dispensing it to minors. The store could also have a policy against it.

I know of a few restaurants that are BYOB, I thought that was so that they could get away with having liquor on premise without having a license?

Not that that changes anything about Fayes situation.

[Kugai]

Abominable

[explicit]

This is a nitpick, but I thought a liquor license was required to SELL liquor? technically, people can bring their own liquor as long as no one is selling it or dispensing it to minors. The store could also have a policy against it.

I know of a few restaurants that are BYOB, I thought that was so that they could get away with having liquor on premise without having a license?

Not that that changes anything about Fayes situation.

Yes, a liquor license is only needed to sell (or give away, I guess) alcohol. You do not need one to allow people to have alcohol in your store, as with you example of BYOB places. Where I've lived the town only allows a certain amount of liquor licenses at one time (they sell them for a shit-ton of money when one becomes available seeing as it was a vacation town). Many restaurants that couldn't serve alcohol just encouraged patrons to bring their own.

[Endellion]

It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.

Yeah, I was reading in the news that in Boston on Sunday there was two bigfeet of snow. 

...

...I'll get my coat

[Kugai]

It's a different situation down here.

In Australia and New Zealand, the term "BYO" (Bring Your Own) emerged to describe business establishments that offered corkage. It is believed that restaurants in Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, were advertising as "BYO" establishments by the 1960s with the concept becoming popular in New Zealand in the late 1970s. Legally, using New Zealand as an example, if your premise only holds an on-licence-endorsed (BYOB license), you as an owner and duty manager with a General Manager's Certificate are forbidden to have a wine list and sell alcohol on the premise. You must have both On-License & On-License-Endorsed to have a wine list and allow BYOB, thus calling your restaurant 'fully licensed'


Quoted from Wikipedia for speed.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

A little perspective: These are people in their early 20s with a well-established collective lifestyle of drinking immoderately, especially in reaction to disappointments romantic and otherwise. It's true that Faye has been, from very early on, the one with the biggest problems and the biggest appetite for Kentucky corn juice, but to expect her friends to react to her post-Angus binges with interventions and such is simply not realistic. Say what you will about it, but that sort of hyper-responsible-adult course of action is not one that typical 20-somethings take. It's easy in hindsight to say "Why didn't they help her?!" In the moment, people have episodes like this (up to the hospitalization, not including) and people of that demographic roll with it, maybe worry a little, but not take concrete steps.

Yes, I'm generalizing like crazy here. I'm sure there are exceptions. But this is coming from my own experiences as a 20-something service industry employee in Northampton who had an extended social circle not at all unlike that in QC. Marten's and Dora's (non-) reactions strike me as completely realistic, and lamentable only after the fact.

There isn't enough this to say how much this. It's just so this, right here.

There's a certain logic that goes, "I did do that at that age, and my friends didn't, so it must not be true."  I, myself, didn't get into that sort of thing at that age. My friends did. From about the age of 32, I have been amazed that any of them are still alive. Had there been an actual emergency, I wouldn't have known what to do, or seen the signs, until it was too late.

Knowing those people as I do, I doubt they'd have been open to help, anyway.

[SubaruStephen]

It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.

Yeah, I was reading in the news that in Boston on Sunday there was two bigfeet of snow. 

...

...I'll get my coat

NO NO, stay inside! (unless you're into Sasquatch bukakke, in that case go have fun. )

[Endellion]

It would explain how Boston's been dicked over for the past month.

Yeah, I was reading in the news that in Boston on Sunday there was two bigfeet of snow. 

...

...I'll get my coat

NO NO, stay inside! (unless you're into Sasquatch bukakke, in that case go have fun. )

...yeah, I guess I wouldn't be euphoric about being covered in a yeti's euphoria fluid*.

*Thank you Marten/Jeph for that gross term

[Oenone]

What's he gonna do about it, finish him off again? That clearly hasn't worked.

EDIT - I just thought of something, he's a bird, why's he hanging out in jizz when he can just fly? That's what does it, this comic now doesn't make any sense.

Can YOU fly with jizz on your wings?

[valkygrrl]

Can YOU fly with jizz on your wings?

You used to be able to before the TSA made those silly rules about liquids.

[explicit]

Goddamn government overreach.

[BenRG]

Someone get that Yelling Bird a shovel!

Whilst we're on the subject, I'm wondering how long it will take Jeph to tunnel back into his house after being away for so long? I wish that I was joking, but I'm not!

[Dark Matter]

It's the US. Regarding labor, that's just how we are. Hail Reagan! 

Ia! Ia! Reagan Fthagn!

[SubaruStephen]

, I'm wondering how long it will take Jeph to tunnel back into his house after being away for so long? I wish that I was joking, but I'm not!

About 2 hours if he can borrow this:

[TheCaffeinatedPanda]

I bet Sweet Tits is under there somewhere...

[Lubricus]

Hmm... Maybe Sweet Tits can start working at Coffee of Doom? There seems to be an opening... 

[cesariojpn]

, I'm wondering how long it will take Jeph to tunnel back into his house after being away for so long? I wish that I was joking, but I'm not!

About 2 hours if he can borrow this:

Bitch. please. 30 frigging minutes with this baby.

[aphanisis81]

This is a nitpick, but I thought a liquor license was required to SELL liquor? technically, people can bring their own liquor as long as no one is selling it or dispensing it to minors. The store could also have a policy against it.

I know of a few restaurants that are BYOB, I thought that was so that they could get away with having liquor on premise without having a license?

Not that that changes anything about Fayes situation.

BYOB restaurants require a liquor license too, just a different kind. It's cheaper than a full-service one, and in the right kind of restaurant, it can be a very popular attraction for customers. I used to live in a college town in NH that had a Thai and Indian place on the same block, both BYOB. Dinner for two would be maybe $30, plus you could each have three beers for another $10, tops. Genius.

[Consilium]

"If your yeti ejaculations last longer than four months, consult your climatologist."

Pshh...if they last that long? I'm consulting everybody.

[Zebediah]

Goddamned yetis. I won't see the grass in my yard again until April. Oh, by the way, it's going to snow here again today. And some more on Saturday night.

Goddamned yetis.

Fuckers.

[Neko_Ali]

I bet Sweet Tits is under there somewhere...

YB is standing on her head.


*edited because I derped and quoted the wrong person. Should make more sense now....

[questionablydiscontent]

  SNOW DAY 
IT IS FINALLY SNOWING IN NORTH CAROLINA. HOLY SHIT, GUYS 
It's about time, too! I was hoping that blizzard was going to hit us... But better late than never, I guess!
Yeah, so... we get pretty excited about snow down here. I keep my cool and calm composure, of course.

[Zebediah]

As a native North Carolinian now living in Massachusetts, I am laughing, laughing, laughing. 

Not laughing at you, of course. Just kind of laughing in your general direction.

[explicit]

As a native North Carolinian now living in Massachusetts, I am laughing, laughing, laughing. 

Not laughing at you, of course. Just kind of laughing in your general direction.

I, on the other hand, am quietly glaring towards the south.

[MooskiNet]

As a native North Carolinian now living in Massachusetts, I am laughing, laughing, laughing. 

Not laughing at you, of course. Just kind of laughing in your general direction.

I, on the other hand, am quietly glaring towards the south.

It's hard to tell if that's you or the warm, warm sunshine.