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Poll

Well, Valentine's Day is Past! What now?

The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize
- 8 (9.6%)
The Talk, Phase 2
- 10 (12%)
Faye meets Keeper Hannelore
- 6 (7.2%)
Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"
- 1 (1.2%)
Dora Does Guilt-Trip
- 24 (28.9%)
Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives
- 13 (15.7%)
Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)
- 21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09


Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 15   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)  (Read 87753 times)

mikmaxs

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #300 on: 18 Feb 2015, 14:37 »

Marten's being chill as hell throughout this situation came as a pleasant surprise to me, honestly. Not because I don't think he'd be against dating a trans person, but just because he's never really seemed to be so incredibly easy going and great at saying exactly the right things at all the right times. Compared to his worried/angsty self, he almost seems stoned out to me (or something akin to it) because he's just acting so incredibly chill about everything. Even after the debacle with Faye, an incredibly stressful situation, he just kind of seemed tired afterwards, not stressed or anything. I kind of miss his subtle snark and neurosises (Nueroses?), but it's nice to see that his character has matured, even if it came as a surprise.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #301 on: 18 Feb 2015, 14:38 »

Sometimes you really just are that much at ease with a person. (Speaking from personal experience there.)
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #302 on: 18 Feb 2015, 14:52 »


I'm loving how "boring" and "normal" Marten's and Claire's relationship is. Sometimes that's just how it goes down in real life—regardless of the type of people involved.

I don't mind how the relationship is, but I don't like strips being written to show this. You could take away these strips and we'd still get it. It just feels like a waste.
Wrong. These strips could be taken away and you would still get it. Unfortunately, idiots abound.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #303 on: 18 Feb 2015, 14:54 »

You can only have so many penis jokes unfortunately.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #304 on: 18 Feb 2015, 14:58 »

Pssh. You can -never- have too many penis jokes.

Keep in mind folks, the intimate moments between Marten and Claire have been no different than those between any other couple in the comic. There was lead up, a bit of clothes-on foreplay, some kissing and implication of more to come. Then a fade to black at the end of a strip, and the next day is post-coital cuddling. It has always been the same, and probably always will be. It's the things that Jeph doesn't show that we shouldn't be talking about. We don't discuss what Dora and Tai get up to. We didn't talk about what Faye and Angus liked to do. We don't speculate on what Claire and Marten do. That sort of thing is to intimate, to personal and not a place the comic goes to. The same respect should be had when discussing the comic.

Point taken. Between my morning-addled brain and my poor short-term memory, I'd entirely forgotten about that strip.
« Last Edit: 18 Feb 2015, 17:07 by Omega Entity »
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #305 on: 18 Feb 2015, 14:58 »

Once again, I guess I had a totally different reaction to this comic than most people.  I found it basically a worthless throwaway that doesn't advance plot or characterization. 

It's odd, because Jeph said he was moving away from dialogue-heavy strips.  Marten gets a ton of dialogue in this strip.  But it's basically just a long-winded way of saying "I'm really into you."   The strip does not seriously have exposition about Marten's feelings more broadly.  He could have said he was exposed to a lot of trans people through his mother as a child, and he never thought about it seriously - until he met Claire and it all changed.  Because he sees her as a person first - a person he's crazy about.  Instead he talks mush. 

This just feels like a retread of their first talk.  Claire asks if he's okay, Marten reassures her, and she is beaming at the end.  I'm immune to Marten/Claire squee, but I can't even see what's squee worthy in this strip.  It's frankly the lamest I've seen in months.

For one thing, a general move away from dialogue-heavy strips doesn't mean that you're going to necessarily abandon them altogether. The art (form) follows, or acts in service to, the story (function). If something can be said with very little dialogue, or none at all, it will (like the strip where Faye's fading in and out of consciousness). If something needs to be told rather than shown, it will be (hence today's talky strip).

Which obliquely leads to your other point. People who have insecurity (or any number of other issues) don't have them constantly. I'm pretty sure that Claire doesn't live under a constant, crushing mountain of self- (or Marten-) doubt, and for him to address it when it's not an issue would be borderline douche-y. But when someone has a valid concern, you address it. She brought it up, he said what needed to be said, she was reassured. That's how it goes sometimes.

It also addresses Isyrion's point:

I just thought of this, the fact that Claire may cause some issues between Marten and Claire.  Not because Marten has issues with Claire being trans but Claire, this being her first boyfriend, subconsciously thinking Marten is just humoring her.  So far Claire is approaching this right by talking out her concerns, hopefully that continues.  (The reason this came to me is one of my best friends is trans and she said she ended up screwing up a good relationship due to worrying about her partner being weirded out by her being trans despite him repeatedly tell her he was cool with it.  Eventually the constant worrying drove a wedge between them.)

BTW I think they are a cute couple so I hope this works they both deserve happiness.

I've kinda been there (was dating someone biracial who, for some reason, thought that I was weirded out by the whole thing, even though A: I wasn't and said as much, and B: I'd asked her out in the first place, which isn't something I'd do if I were iffy about someone). I've been on the other side of that situation as well, thinking that something about me was a bigger deal to someone than it was, or thinking that they were a lot less into the relationship than they turned out to be. Communication (as they're doing now) and trust (which they've got, and seem to have been building on) go a really long way.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #306 on: 18 Feb 2015, 15:08 »

But the strip can't escape the unsightly issues that come with such things. It's better to educate than just sweep it under the rug.

Nasty though the world is, it is still actually not all nasty.  You seem to be denying the validity of representing the possibility of coming across some behaviour that's not totally awful.  It may not be typical; but being reminded that there are things better than the typical is also educational and may be encouraging.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #307 on: 18 Feb 2015, 15:20 »

Prepare forum... prepare forum for ludicrous squee! Fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo!

It's going to go into plaid.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #308 on: 18 Feb 2015, 15:23 »


I'm loving how "boring" and "normal" Marten's and Claire's relationship is. Sometimes that's just how it goes down in real life—regardless of the type of people involved.

I don't mind how the relationship is, but I don't like strips being written to show this. You could take away these strips and we'd still get it. It just feels like a waste.
Wrong. These strips could be taken away and you would still get it. Unfortunately, idiots abound.
And Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped (Warning, TVTropes link)


Nasty though the world is, it is still actually not all nasty.  You seem to be denying the validity of representing the possibility of coming across some behaviour that's not totally awful.  It may not be typical; but being reminded that there are things better than the typical is also educational and may be encouraging.
Also, this. 
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #309 on: 18 Feb 2015, 15:27 »

This entry from Jeph's Twitter feed is probably not good news for everyone, based on the comments I've seen (especially this evening).

The twist is we're cutting away to Jimbo doing cute things.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #310 on: 18 Feb 2015, 15:32 »

For some reason, now all I can picture is a John Deere tea cozy.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #311 on: 18 Feb 2015, 15:35 »

I imagined a lumberjack cuddling a case of budweiser.
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SubaruStephen

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #312 on: 18 Feb 2015, 16:23 »

Prepare forum... prepare forum for ludicrous squee! Fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo!

It's going to go into plaid.
Kaity, bar the door!
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #313 on: 18 Feb 2015, 16:35 »

Quote
better to educate

It is educational to learn that talking about someone's privates around non-fictional trans people is rude.

For general education there's at least a college syllabus worth of material over in Discuss, and links to some basics in the forum rules.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #314 on: 18 Feb 2015, 16:59 »

Also, google.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #315 on: 18 Feb 2015, 17:39 »

Wrong. These strips could be taken away and you would still get it. Unfortunately, idiots abound.

I prefer my fiction to not be written with idiots in mind. 
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #316 on: 18 Feb 2015, 17:57 »

For the "everyone but me is stupid" crowd, there are any number of libertarian polemics disguised as science-fiction webcomics. Try the forums of Quantum Vibe or Quentyn Quinn Space Ranger.
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wlewisiii

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #317 on: 18 Feb 2015, 18:15 »

For the "everyone but me is stupid" crowd, there are any number of libertarian polemics disguised as science-fiction webcomics. Try the forums of Quantum Vibe or Quentyn Quinn Space Ranger.

Freefall http://freefall.purrsia.com/ can get that way too, especially earlier on. Gotten better over time, thankfully, as he's focused on the intersection of AI & Civil Rights.

And it's a strip that has pacing to make QC look like a fast cut MTV video from 1985!
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #318 on: 18 Feb 2015, 18:23 »

Everybody's stupid, but so am I! *Fart Noise *Jackoff motion
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SubaruStephen

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #319 on: 18 Feb 2015, 18:47 »

Speak for yourself, I don't claim to be the smartest (fart noise), but an I.Q. Of 156 says I'm sure as hell not stupid.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #320 on: 18 Feb 2015, 18:50 »

Everyone knows that IQ's are only out of 100 points, don't be silly. How else would you explain my C- IQ score?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #321 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:06 »

One cannot claim that everyone other than one's self is stupid and extol the virtues of libertarianism at the same time. No such virtues exist.

Just because you're smart, it doesn't follow that you aren't stupid.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #322 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:15 »

Speak for yourself, I don't claim to be the smartest (fart noise), but an I.Q. Of 156 says I'm sure as hell not stupid.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #323 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:29 »

Excuse me for a few moments. The sheer levels of saccharine sweetness are making me prone to vomiting.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #324 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:29 »

Comics up and more interesting & cute than any IQ noise :D
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #325 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:35 »

That 2nd panel, I now have dawwwwwiabeties
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #326 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:44 »

Now we get to see what happens when irresistible squee comes up against the immovable object of "Where's teh dramaz?"
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #327 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:46 »

Everyone's been squeeing for a solid two weeks. The cuteness is making me boil over in manly rage.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #328 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:50 »

I'm seeing what some of you are saying about these strips lacking character/plot advancement, having too much dialogue/cuteness, and overall acting as boring filler. But I think it's a good thing that there are so many strips about Marten and Claire just hanging out together. It's a depiction of a relationship between a trans person and a cis person, and I could be totally wrong about this, but I feel like it's a nice thing for trans people to see a representation of themselves being handled in a totally casual way - it's important that we have this emphasis on the relationship because it really secures the fact that just because Claire is trans, it doesn't mean Marten has to treat her any differently than he would have treated Dora, or Padma, or any other girl he's had feelings for. Thoughts?

These strips stand out from the comic because of their content and style, sure, but I can definitely see where Jeph is coming from. Also, Claire and Marten are cute as fuck together, and I'm down with that.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #329 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:51 »

Everyone's been squeeing for a solid two weeks. The cuteness is making me boil over in manly rage.
Here's some Manly Guys Doing Manly Things for you.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #330 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:53 »

Not enough, already read.

The only remedy is beef jerky, beer and MLP... wait... AHHH IT GOT ME, TELL THE CUTENESS TO FUCK OFFFFFFFFF, how did it invade my mind like this?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #331 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:54 »

So about the complaints about the lack of drama and character advancement, this part of the story is the setup to the drama. Particularly today's comic: it's setting up Claire's uncertainties about their relationship, which will likely be the basis of future drama. Y'all just aren't noticing it because it's buried in squee.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to do more manly things.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #332 on: 18 Feb 2015, 19:54 »

I'm glad there are still some folks enjoying Clairten, but I need a break from this plot line. Interactions I would find more interesting:

Dora vs. Tai on Sven & Faye
Dora vs. Sven
Faye vs. Sven
Angus says goodbye to Marigold
Momo goes on a date
Claire vs. Tai on transfeminine vs transmasculine experiences & trans women at Smif
Faye & her family on addiction and life choices
Band practice

... really, just, absolutely anything at all.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #333 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:01 »

Don't worry, next week we'll move on to more of Faye, including her going back into therapy with a new therapist...




....YELLING BIRD!!
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #334 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:05 »

More seriously Jeph will have to post something less cute next week.  WCDT traffic has dropped considerably since last week.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #335 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:05 »

I'm seeing what some of you are saying about these strips lacking character/plot advancement, having too much dialogue/cuteness, and overall acting as boring filler. But I think it's a good thing that there are so many strips about Marten and Claire just hanging out together. It's a depiction of a relationship between a trans person and a cis person, and I could be totally wrong about this, but I feel like it's a nice thing for trans people to see a representation of themselves being handled in a totally casual way - it's important that we have this emphasis on the relationship because it really secures the fact that just because Claire is trans, it doesn't mean Marten has to treat her any differently than he would have treated Dora, or Padma, or any other girl he's had feelings for. Thoughts?

These strips stand out from the comic because of their content and style, sure, but I can definitely see where Jeph is coming from. Also, Claire and Marten are cute as fuck together, and I'm down with that.

Some of it stems from the much different dynamic in this relationship. Marten's relationship with Faye, though it's always been platonic, has been complicated as hell from day one. His relationship with Dora had not only its own issues (like his passivity and Dora's trust issues), but had residual Faye baggage layered on top of that. The relationship with Padma was overlaid with post-Dora drama, more indecision, and the fact that Padma was leaving soon to take care of her grandmother. Delilah wasn't so much Ms. Right as Ms. Right Now. The relationship with Claire has had time to develop; there was already a friendship there, he's not encumbered by other people's expectations or drama, and things have had the chance to come together a lot more organically (and on a more equal footing) than the other romantic relationships we've seen him in up to this point. When you don't have all the other crap to deal with, it's a lot easier to come into a relationship with a clean slate, letting yourself and the other person just be who you are as individuals and see what that means for you as a couple. It probably looks boring as hell to some people from the outside (including a significant portion of the forum), but it's probably a bit more sane and healthy than his last few attempts.

And yes, I think he does treat Claire differently, but I see that as a function of him finally being more comfortable in the relationship than having anything to do with Claire's trans-ness. That may be, in his eyes, mere background noise at this point -- something he deals with if it becomes anything more than a dull hum (i.e., when Claire brings it up), but over which he doesn't otherwise obsess.

PS: My apologies in advance regarding the "background noise" comment; couldn't think of a better way to word it. I don't intend it to mean that he's in any way demeaning or minimizing Claire's experiences or feelings; moreso that he isn't getting carried away over the fact of her trans* status.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #336 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:10 »

I don't think it's boring or anything, but I have way too much testosterone for this amount of cuteness on a daily basis. I can't play with my puppy now, my quota for adorbs has been met. Don't you question my manliness, this cuteness doesn't bring happy tears to my eyes, you shut up.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #337 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:11 »

Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #338 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:13 »

This is great.  So far we've only really had Marten's side of the relationship, how he feels about the way things are going.  So it's great that he finally asked Claire for her feelings on the matter.  Communication!  And now I have to second AprilArcus' request for some other story developments, because I have had enough goddamn cuteness for a good long while and I think Marten and Claire are going to be okay if Jeph shuffles them aside for a bit to focus on, well, EVERYONE ELSE in the comic.

Don't worry, next week we'll move on to more of Faye, including her going back into therapy with a new therapist...

....YELLING BIRD!!

Damn it, no!  Bring back Dr. Corrine!  See if the FDA has approved kicks-to-the-rear for trial phases yet.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #339 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:13 »

So about the complaints about the lack of drama and character advancement, this part of the story is the setup to the drama. Particularly today's comic: it's setting up Claire's uncertainties about their relationship, which will likely be the basis of future drama. Y'all just aren't noticing it because it's buried in squee.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to do more manly things.
Glad to see I'm not the only person to notice that. This is Claire's first relationship and a lot of her uncertainties are going to be come to the fore over the next few weeks and months.
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Mr. Black Licorice

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #340 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:15 »

Keep in mind folks, the intimate moments between Marten and Claire have been no different than those between any other couple in the comic. There was lead up, a bit of clothes-on foreplay, some kissing and implication of more to come. Then a fade to black at the end of a strip, and the next day is post-coital cuddling. It has always been the same, and probably always will be. It's the things that Jeph doesn't show that we shouldn't be talking about. We don't discuss what Dora and Tai get up to. We didn't talk about what Faye and Angus liked to do. We don't speculate on what Claire and Marten do. That sort of thing is to intimate, to personal and not a place the comic goes to. The same respect should be had when discussing the comic.

Can we still make crude jokes at least?  :-(

(If that was already asked, I apologize... haven't read through everyone's responses yet today.)
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Gladstone

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #341 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:19 »

Can we still make crude jokes at least?  :-(

Only about butts.

Not specific butts, mind you.  Just butts in general.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #342 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:23 »

Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.

He couldn't take the initiative. Claire has a plus +6 Dex bonus, Improved Initiative, and she rolled a 20.

explicit

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #343 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:24 »

Can we still make crude jokes at least?  :-(

Only about butts.

Not specific butts, mind you.  Just butts in general.

The day I can't make a joke about penis is the day I stop saying things in general.

EDIT - My name is Explicit for a reason, you can't take away my toilet humor!
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Mr. Black Licorice

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #344 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:29 »

You can only have so many penis jokes unfortunately.

Not true! There are an infinite number of penis jokes... but only so many of then can be good penis jokes.
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Gladstone

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #345 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:31 »

The day I can't make a joke about penis is the day I stop saying things in general.

EDIT - My name is Explicit for a reason, you can't take away my toilet humor!

PERMISSION DENIED.  THIS IS QUESTIONABLE CONTENT, AND YOU WILL TALK ABOUT BUTTS.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #346 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:31 »

SCREW YOUR BUTTS, SCREW IT WITH PENIS.

Well that was fun.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #347 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:35 »

Speak for yourself, I don't claim to be the smartest (fart noise), but an I.Q. Of 156 says I'm sure as hell not stupid.

Doesn't matter if you are the smartest person in the room if you are too arrogant to see the facts...
(Not a personal jab... a philosophical note on the difference between intelligence and wisdom.)
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #348 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:35 »

yn dod i ben cefn
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #349 on: 18 Feb 2015, 20:35 »

I am glad to finally hear from Claire. I'm glad that Jeph is taking pains to write this plotline in a "this is how it should be done" way.

But I am ready for comics that don't explicitly state things that we were easily able to infer. Aside from underlining Claire's nervousness about being in a relationship (and honestly, even that could be inferred from Claire's actions, Jeph is very good at drawing body language) nothing has been revealed in the more recent Marten/Claire storyline that wasn't already obvious. I can understand why Jeph is hitting his readers over the head to make sure that they don't miss these very important points, but I am sick of treading and retreading the same old tired path.
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