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Well, Valentine's Day is Past! What now?

The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize
- 8 (9.6%)
The Talk, Phase 2
- 10 (12%)
Faye meets Keeper Hannelore
- 6 (7.2%)
Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"
- 1 (1.2%)
Dora Does Guilt-Trip
- 24 (28.9%)
Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives
- 13 (15.7%)
Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)
- 21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09


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Author Topic: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)  (Read 90565 times)

ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #450 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:35 »

Yeah, I'm really sick of people ignoring the points we make and then going "But why do you hate to see Marten/Claire happy?!! Do you just want teh Dramaz all of the time?"

If that is all you're getting from the walls of text we're spewing out, then you're missing several important somethings.

It's not all I'm getting. I'm also getting eye strain.

<.<
>.>

I thought it was funny as hell.

Look, it's not that people aren't paying attention to your points. No need to martyr yourself just yet. It's that people don't agree with them, there for they discount them. Just the same way as I discount a lot of theories about Claire because my reading of the evidence says they are unsupported.

People have been aggressively hating one every move Jeph makes from the deep past. If you want to get through to them, you have to hit a profound or extremely stark point. Something not open to interpretation. I know where of I speak. If you doin't come with that level of evidence you will either be dismissed or (worse) accused of saying something you didn't say because someone took your point of view personally.

You won't, however, win converts or understanding. At best you'll be expounding doctrine to the temple singers.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #451 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:38 »

I don't need teh dramaz, although as noted, a story without conflict of some sort is boring.  I do need Claire to actually display a bit of snark again, or Marten to put his foot in his mouth just once talking to Claire, to make me really think they're the same people they were 100 strips ago. 
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #452 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:40 »

I do find it funny that just because they haven't had any problems yet people keep kind of assuming they won't have any in the future. It's a relationship guys, something bad's going to happen eventually, calm down.

I've never been in a relationship that immediately had problems, otherwise I probably wouldn't have dated that person.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #453 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:45 »

I do find it funny that just because they haven't had any problems yet people keep kind of assuming they won't have any in the future. It's a relationship guys, something bad's going to happen eventually, calm down.

I've never been in a relationship that immediately had problems, otherwise I probably wouldn't have dated that person.

And case in point.

Who says I want problems? I want personality.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #454 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:49 »

Who says I want problems? I want personality.

Well, you got it! In today's strip, Claire nearly outright states that she's been walking on eggshells because she doesn't know how to 'do' relationships. She's so uncomfortable that she's been measuring out her actions very carefully, afraid of scaring Marten off.

Characterisation enough?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #455 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:54 »

I was also talking in general, I wanna add.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #456 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:56 »

I can't be cavalier?

Well, crap.

Paladin it is, then.

TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #457 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:59 »

I can't be cavalier?

Well, crap.

Paladin it is, then.

Oh! Can I be a Blackguard?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #458 on: 19 Feb 2015, 12:59 »

I wonder what the general reaction to the pacing would be if we all read it in 100-comic binges. 

For fun, I went back to 2800 and zoomed through.  And, yes, there is a lot of Marten/Claire, but 2800 was also the beginning of the head-skritches.  For a new relationship in the comic, the fact that they pretty much dominate the story makes sense.

That being said, I think this particular story line has reached its first-wave apex, and it'll slow down, hopefully giving way to other stories/people in the QCversepleaseohdearlord
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #459 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:02 »

I have a feeling there's going to be some drama as things progress, but why would you want it right from the start for goodness sakes!!!

This is a Webcomic set in a fictional, semi-futuristic and alternate world people, not a fraking History Drama.


Sheesh!!
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #460 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:04 »

I can't be cavalier?

Well, crap.

Paladin it is, then.

Well let's see....   Rolls d20, result is 6

I'm sorry but your constitution is too low.   Have you considered a mage perhaps?   A diplomat?   Maybe.... an NPC.   I could make you a Kobold.   :clairedoge:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #461 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:07 »

Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #462 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:18 »

Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats  :psyduck:

True 20? I haven't looked at those rules in a while.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #463 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:20 »

Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats  :psyduck:

True 20? I haven't looked at those rules in a while.
It's been that long since I played.  We're on what? Ed. 5 now?  :/
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #464 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:21 »

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL THESE NUMBERS DO, BUT IT SCARES ME.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #465 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:23 »

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL THESE NUMBERS DO, BUT IT SCARES ME.

You should be scared.  When I roll a d4, people die!!!
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #466 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:34 »

I have to say, just for those who do think Claire and Marten should cause more drama, there is the WCDT.

I'm making popcorn.

Mostly because I haven't had any in years.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #467 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:37 »

You know, has a WCDT been locked BEFORE Friday's comic before?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #468 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:45 »

Why is this so difficult to grasp. Don't talk about, don't ask about what someone has in their pants. We don't talk about it with any other character. It's no different with Claire. "But she's different!" cries the forum. Yes. Which is why we keep having to say the same thing over and over again. Don't ask, don't talk about what is in someone's pants. If you are not your pants or the one getting in them, it isn't any of your business. This is true for every character, every person be they real or fictional. Just. Don't.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #469 on: 19 Feb 2015, 13:53 »

(click to show/hide)

[Edit: The context for this post was removed.]

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #470 on: 19 Feb 2015, 14:27 »

I really want to make a joke--I think it's funny as hell--but...

Your strawmen. They are made of straw. You've been told that there are places in the Discuss section where you can ask, comment, or otherwise raise the issues you speak of. There's one rule (relevant to the topic). "Not in the Comic forum." How hard is that?

I'm seriously asking, because it feels like you're trying to make martyr out of yourself. Like you are trying to get banned or something, just to prove something. Yet people keep telling you there is place for that. It just a short scroll down the forum.

In it's most basic form: if something is touched upon in the comic, reasonable discussion in WCDT should be allowed, and not be shunted elsewhere, nor someone shouldn't be afraid to ask about it and get lawyered by some rule.

The strip before the current one is the perfect example of what i'm trying to get at: I am seriously wondering why Marten gave Claire that bland response when she asked in it's most distilled form: "Hey, don't you feel kinda weird dating someone who is trans?" Now I know someone is gonna point out "wait, you broached the genitalia issue!!" when I didn't; the question is open ended and I never even guessed or implied either way.

The response is like I said too bland; there doesn't even appear to be some pang of apprehension or even him admitting that "Oh, I had reservations at first, but then...." and go on about how he's okay with it. Add some damn friction. It doesn't have to be earth shattering; people have faults. Your no better than the next person. Claire should at least be reassured that Marten had some sort of "quandary" of some sort, be told about it, and then told he's now okay with her. 

It just smacks of Kid Gloves; Pintsize not even providing some "morality episode" events a few strips before is where it starts to get bad. We all know he's a jerkass, but the way it was deus ex machina by Marten in one panel smacks of this, and so did the recent two strips. I just have to wonder if the rules about genitalia are also hurting the strip as well.
 
Like I said, the comic can't have both; they can't approach a topic, yet say certain things are off limits. It hurts the entire topic as a whole, and it needs to be better managed.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #471 on: 19 Feb 2015, 14:29 »

Global Moderator Comment Strictly temporary cooling off period, probably just a few hours. I'll use the time for a split. It will take some thought.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #472 on: 19 Feb 2015, 14:57 »

You know, has a WCDT been locked BEFORE Friday's comic before?

I think so, but not for a long time; and I was thinking of locking this earlier, but it reached the tipping point while I was otherwise engaged.

Look back over the last couple of pages and see how many moderator comments (plus unmarked comments by mods) there have been leading up to this.  We don't say those things for our own amusement, you know.

EDIT:  Many of those have now been removed along with the nonsenses they referred to.
« Last Edit: 19 Feb 2015, 16:17 by pwhodges »
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #473 on: 19 Feb 2015, 15:10 »

Everyone eager to discuss how to carry on conversations between the oppressed and the non-oppressed, see the new topic in Discuss. Moderators, feel free to tinker with my work. There are posts that could have gone either way. People who want to discuss the comic passionately, this thread will reopen soon. People who want to make it into arguments about other members, please do something else until the urge passes.

EDIT: unlocked now.
« Last Edit: 19 Feb 2015, 16:07 by Is it cold in here? »
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #474 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:14 »

I sent nearly a page of collective madness to the forum trash bin.  Please don't make it necessary for that to happen again.  Something as simple as counting to ten before starting to reply can help.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #475 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:15 »


Who says I want problems? I want personality.

Well, you got it! In today's strip, Claire nearly outright states that she's been walking on eggshells because she doesn't know how to 'do' relationships. She's so uncomfortable that she's been measuring out her actions very carefully, afraid of scaring Marten off.

Was Claire walking on eggshells in 2891?

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #476 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:16 »

The response is like I said too bland; there doesn't even appear to be some pang of apprehension or even him admitting that "Oh, I had reservations at first, but then...." and go on about how he's okay with it. Add some damn friction. It doesn't have to be earth shattering; people have faults. Your no better than the next person. Claire should at least be reassured that Marten had some sort of "quandary" of some sort, be told about it, and then told he's now okay with her. 

I'm going to respond to just this.    Why does there have to be a "pang of apprehension"   Why does he have to have reservations?  Why does there need to be friction?   Maybe since he's okay with it, that friction isn't needed.   But you're also missing the friction that is there in the form of Claire's uncertainty and apprehension.    Believe it or not, no friction IS a quandary.   It's unheard of in most relationships alone.   Throw your presumptions and expectations for a trans/cis relationship into the mix and what you have is a very lovely surprise.   Because you're complaining about the lack of friction where you expect it to be... (I think that was Jeph's intent)

Point is, Marten doesn't need to come to some realization or revelation about what he's doing.   It does seem like you might though, granted, many not in his position probably would.   I'm not suggesting otherwise.   But since he doesn't, lets see where that takes us.   It's nice to think this is all just perfect and everyone's perfect and aren't they perfect..... (vomits a little).... and the sun and the moon.... (a little more).....  But we know better.   Subtlety only works if you allow it.   So maybe try to see it from that angle.  :)
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #477 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:18 »

Well, I'm guessing there was some friction between 2891 and 2892. :parrot:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #478 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:19 »

Back on todays comic, I think perhaps Marten has saw one bad Claire day. Then again, maybe he defused that before it became a bad day.

While you were typing 4 new replies were posted, you may wish to watch where you're standing when the floodgates open
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #479 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:24 »

Was Claire walking on eggshells in 2891?
No, she was stomping the shit out of them.   Similar to ripping off a band-aid holding your guts in and hoping for the best.   I think the stuttering "W-well, this-this is me" is akin to putting everything out there. 

I can't help but make it personal, so I will.   I'm not afraid of sharing my emotions and thoughts with someone.   They are clear, I have no reservations about what I think or feel.   That said, when it comes to my body, yeah no.   Take all the dysphoria one could posses and wrap it up into a singular moment which someone sets aside and hopes the other see's more than what they see.    I think the stuttering "W-well, this-this is me" is akin to putting everything out there.       She's friggin courageous in this clip.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #480 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:34 »

The strip before the current one is the perfect example of what i'm trying to get at: I am seriously wondering why Marten gave Claire that bland response when she asked in it's most distilled form: "Hey, don't you feel kinda weird dating someone who is trans?" Now I know someone is gonna point out "wait, you broached the genitalia issue!!" when I didn't; the question is open ended and I never even guessed or implied either way.

The response is like I said too bland; there doesn't even appear to be some pang of apprehension or even him admitting that "Oh, I had reservations at first, but then...." and go on about how he's okay with it. Add some damn friction. It doesn't have to be earth shattering; people have faults. Your no better than the next person. Claire should at least be reassured that Marten had some sort of "quandary" of some sort, be told about it, and then told he's now okay with her. 

Marten gave a bland response because his responses to most anything shy of a gunshot wound to the chest tend to be pretty chill. It's usually his own uncertainty that sets him off. And it's that uncertainty that leads to why people think you're talking about genitals even though you keep saying you're not talking about genitals (which, in turn, makes several of us think that you doth protest too much about genitals -- which, incidentally, is probably the most times I've written "genitals" in a single sentence. But I digress).

Back on track: why would Marten's uncertainty lead people to think that (heaven forfend) you're talking about someone's bits? Because Marten is, by nature, a creature beset by apprehension, uncertainty, and quandaries galore. But it's not like you said, "Given Marten's usual tendency to analyze things to death unnecessarily,* I wonder how he's going to freak out over this?" You said, in effect, "So, everybody. How long do you think before Marten second-guesses dating a trans* woman?"

See the difference?

There's plenty to be apprehensive over in ANY relationship. But given that rather long list, and if we're going to prioritize the list properly (e.g., worrying about stuff like, "Am I being attentive enough? Are we communicating well? Does (significant other) need a hug right about now? Am I, in short, being the person that this other person deserves?") then worrying over your S.O.'s gender falls pretty far down the list.

*Which I think he was on the verge of doing before being accosted by Mrs. A on the way to pancakes
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #481 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:41 »

Like I said, the comic can't have both; they can't approach a topic, yet say certain things are off limits. It hurts the entire topic as a whole, and it needs to be better managed.

I hesitate to touch this again, but as it is comic related:

You are absolutely incorrect. The comic can, if Jeph so chooses, have it both ways. My previous analogy about walls and markers applies.  This is Jeph's house. He's paying the bills. If he wants to do X, he can do that. Because he's in his house. YOU (and I and even the Mods) need permission. From Jeph. If he says no, that's it. End of line.

You either accept it, or you exercise your freedom of choice and leave. You could vote with you wallet in hopes that that impacts Jeph's income, because you believe he should see consequences for his choice. But he can still have it both ways until the money runs out, and he is perfectly free to do that in his house with his stuff.

But there's another point.

You see, Jeph never brought up Claire's genitals in the comic. Claire got naked. End of line.

As snarkyone says, getting naked is putting everything out there. Hoping that the person you are trying to connect to--on whatever level--doesn't see you the way you see yourself.

Maybe Claire was saying what a lot of people think she was saying. Maybe. But the comic is just as open to the interpretation that Claire has the same body image issues as most other young women and she was saying "Hi. I've never been intimate before, like this. This is me." Or maybe Claire was saying something else. I'd be more specific, but this isn't the place. I'm trying to address your false equivalence about the comic.

Specifically, just because you think something was brought up by the author, it doesn't mean it was. Jeph's a responsible author. He does recognize that intent doesn't always equal content. But that doesn't mean he has to bend his intent to fit your reading.

People--trans and not--have taken several instances to mean that their preferred interpretation is the truth. That's their head canon. That's all it is. Just as the idea that comic has addressed the items you want to address is yours. Nothing more or less.

So while Jeph can, in fact, have it both ways if he so chooses, that's not what's going on here. You are injecting your interpretation and trying to hang it on Jeph. You aren't the only person doing that. Not all of the people doing that share your interpretation. Since the issue is not clear, the forum policy remains the best available option, considering that the negatives are deemed to outweigh other considerations.

And that's all I have to say about that. /Gump

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #482 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:54 »

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

All things considered, being accused of following either traditional masculinity or femininity is pretty damn insulting.

I tend to agree with Elizabeth Hungerford about the C-word. https://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/

Edit: I should be more clear. Hungerford's reasoning goes beyond the simple who's really 100% conformable with gender roles but it is the suggestion, along with the idea that trans people get to apply a label to another group that people are just expect to accept. They don't care for a lot of words people have applied to them after all.
« Last Edit: 19 Feb 2015, 17:02 by valkygrrl »
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #483 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:54 »

10 pages by Thursday. We're slipping a bit.  :clairedoge:

The last two pages are actually very typical QC; it's just we haven't seen it for so long.

And who knows how long Claire & Marten (unrelated note: that sounds like an upscale clothing store at a shopping mall, for some reason) will last, but we'll be along for the ride.

We've come a long way from "indie boy hates his job and life and his anthroPC isn't helping."
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #484 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:55 »

There may have been some surgical removals.

AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #485 on: 19 Feb 2015, 16:57 »

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".

explicit

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #486 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:01 »

Calling me normal would be pretty off the mark anyways.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #487 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:04 »

I, on the other hand, am generally normal...

To the plane defined by Earth's gravity over a local area of its surface.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #488 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:10 »

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".

i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.
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AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #489 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:18 »

i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.

kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's anthrocon all day long telling me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #490 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:21 »

i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.

kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it. maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's a damn mascot convention and they tell me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!
o.O your avatar fit this.. almost.. perfectly
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #491 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:27 »

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".

i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.

This reminds me of an old history teacher who was in the habit of calling me "Mark," or occasionally "Brian" (neither of which is my name) because, as she would say every damn time, "You look like a Mark (or Brian)." It's not like she didn't know my name. It's not like it wasn't right there in front of her in black and white in her grade book. Remembering to call someone what they are, by the terminology with which they identify themselves, is as easy as remembering their name. It's also common courtesy.

But if that's asking too much... well, pleased to meet ya, Sparky.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #492 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:28 »

I'm going to respond to just this.    Why does there have to be a "pang of apprehension"   Why does he have to have reservations?  Why does there need to be friction?   Maybe since he's okay with it, that friction isn't needed.   But you're also missing the friction that is there in the form of Claire's uncertainty and apprehension.    Believe it or not, no friction IS a quandary.   It's unheard of in most relationships alone.   Throw your presumptions and expectations for a trans/cis relationship into the mix and what you have is a very lovely surprise.   Because you're complaining about the lack of friction where you expect it to be... (I think that was Jeph's intent)

AprilArcus has highlighted how Marten's attitude towards trans issues has...evolved...over the years.  We know that he was exposed to a lot of very openly genderqueer people when he was young.  I don't know if Marten needs to be apprehensive per se, but it would show more character growth for him to remark upon how his childhood experiences shaped his initial views.  Like he thought it was all about camp and such, and he never really considered the issue because he never really thought he'd meet a down to earth transwoman (like Claire) whom he had so much in common with. 

So, speaking personally, I don't think that I wanted there to be friction per se.  But presuming that Jeph is telling this story in part to be didactic, it would have helped things IMHO if Marten had a bit more of "everyman" in him in these interactions, and was a little bit less of a magical love gentleman. 
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #493 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:43 »

Which game are you playing where a d20 is used for stats  :psyduck:

True 20? I haven't looked at those rules in a while.
It's been that long since I played.  We're on what? Ed. 5 now?  :/
The last D&D edition I played was 3.5 (wouldn't touch 4e with a 10-foot pole), and all the stats were pretty much d6 rolls (I think our DM had us roll 5d6 and drop the lowest - it's been a while).

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

Yup! "Cisgender" is a way of talking about people who aren't transgender without using loaded words like "normal".

i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.

kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's anthrocon all day long telling me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!

This reminds me of an old history teacher who was in the habit of calling me "Mark," or occasionally "Brian" (neither of which is my name) because, as she would say every damn time, "You look like a Mark (or Brian)." It's not like she didn't know my name. It's not like it wasn't right there in front of her in black and white in her grade book. Remembering to call someone what they are, by the terminology with which they identify themselves, is as easy as remembering their name. It's also common courtesy.

But if that's asking too much... well, pleased to meet ya, Sparky.

I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to encourage education, acceptance, and understanding.

Think of it like a cliff face - sure, the determined are going to be all 'fuck you rock wall, Imma climb you like a mofo!', but for the vast, vast majority, they'll throw up their hands and take the path of least resistance -i in this case, they fall back on language that they know and are familiar with, and is easy to understand. Thus the importance of having bite-sized information to hand-feed the less-inclined masses. They're much more likely to make an effort, if they don't feel like it's an impossible endeavor to figure out what is the 'proper' word choice.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #494 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:45 »

I have a question: so we found out that Claire is worried about what Clairemom may or may not worry about in strip 2840:

So why wasn't this an issue when she stayed over after Faye got out of the hospital? Did Claire have a fuck the police moment and claimed some sovereignty?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #495 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:48 »

So, speaking personally, I don't think that I wanted there to be friction per se.  But presuming that Jeph is telling this story in part to be didactic, it would have helped things IMHO if Marten had a bit more of "everyman" in him in these interactions, and was a little bit less of a magical love gentleman.

Maybe some supernatural stuff is going down and MLG is possessing the body of Marten!  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #496 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:48 »

Or maybe her mom made it quite clear that she ships this.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #497 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:49 »

i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.

It's a relatively quick and easy way to communicate that you're not an enemy and that you care enough to pick up some vocabulary.

I was delightfully surprised at how much trans* related specialty words helped me think straight. The words "assignment" and "presentation" are precision tools.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #498 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:53 »

Or maybe her mom made it quite clear that she ships this.

Or maybe Claire left it more open-ended-ish ("Going to Marten's. See you tomorrow." versus "Going on a date with Marten. See you around midnight-ish.")?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #499 on: 19 Feb 2015, 17:55 »

The words "assignment" and "presentation" are precision tools.

So is a scalpel but some might hesitate to pick them up, and that's why allies using them are important.  :D
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