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Poll

Well, Valentine's Day is Past! What now?

The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize
- 8 (9.6%)
The Talk, Phase 2
- 10 (12%)
Faye meets Keeper Hannelore
- 6 (7.2%)
Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"
- 1 (1.2%)
Dora Does Guilt-Trip
- 24 (28.9%)
Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives
- 13 (15.7%)
Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)
- 21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 83

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09


Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15]   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)  (Read 30088 times)

ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #700 on: 22 Feb 2015, 09:53 »

The Atlantic Charter.
Followed by the Marshall Plan.

I'm going to have to be ambivalent about those.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #701 on: 22 Feb 2015, 13:18 »

Global Moderator Comment I wasn't sure what the "clever girl" meme that got posted last night was about. "On Reddit[2], it is often used in rage comics where men have been fooled by women" convinced me that it's toxic transphobia and I deleted it.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #702 on: 22 Feb 2015, 13:20 »

I may be naive, but I just assumed it was a reference to Jurassic Park...
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #703 on: 22 Feb 2015, 13:22 »

On the internet, nothing is just a reference to Jurassic Park.

Including this.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #704 on: 22 Feb 2015, 14:04 »

I don't know if I can agree with that one. If you're not sure on the intent I don't think it should be deleted just in case.

It's a stretch to say that's not a jurassic park reference with a raptor in the room. There should at least be benefit of the doubt there. If it were to get nuked, and you can make a argument for that, that last line shouldn't be the reason why.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #705 on: 22 Feb 2015, 14:11 »

I don't know if I can agree with that one. If you're not sure on the intent I don't think it should be deleted just in case.

It's a stretch to say that's not a jurassic park reference with a raptor in the room. There should at least be benefit of the doubt there. If it were to get nuked, and you can make a argument for that, that last line shouldn't be the reason why.

I've seen enough of the "trans* person is just a [fill in the blank] in [fill in the blank's] clothing" thing from "The Crying Game" to Reddit to the various Chans and elsewhere that I read it the same way IICIH did, regardless of the last line. IMHO, it's better off gone.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #706 on: 22 Feb 2015, 14:29 »

Global Moderator Comment I'm treating it as an accident and Stanistani is a member in good standing.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #707 on: 22 Feb 2015, 17:58 »

I don't know if I can agree with that one. If you're not sure on the intent I don't think it should be deleted just in case.

It's a stretch to say that's not a jurassic park reference with a raptor in the room. There should at least be benefit of the doubt there. If it were to get nuked, and you can make a argument for that, that last line shouldn't be the reason why.

One day, we will live in a world where you can make dick jokes about a transperson and everyone will think it's a dick joke and not a trans joke. One day we will live in a world where off color jokes aren't oppressive because no one is oppressed.

We don't live in that world yet.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #708 on: 22 Feb 2015, 18:20 »

How about a society where we've finally outgrown dick jokes? Then we wouldn't have to worry about how fucking awful it is to make a dick joke about a trans person.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #709 on: 22 Feb 2015, 18:29 »

This is humanity we're talking about. We'll learn to stop killing each other before we learn to stop pointing at genitals and laughing.

I'm not sure we'll ever lear not to kill each other.

Punch up, not down, is the cool way to aproach the comedy question. But the moral way would be "don't punch." It seems our method of humor won't tolerate that. Jokes need a butt.

Yelling bird will be ever happy about that.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #710 on: 22 Feb 2015, 18:43 »

By that reasoning it is acceptable to make dick jokes about trans people. When the average is white and had 40'ish years of male privilege there isn't much more in the way of up to punch.  And certainly many people do find it acceptable.

It's still a _dick_ move.

I'll "punch" about politics, I'll "punch" about acting like dicks, about special snowflakes using their feels to trample over other people because they refuse to see beyond their own wants. I'll "punch" about using the oppressed as a shield to advance nefarious agendas that would make Virginia Prince stand up and cheer. I'll "punch" when the proposed solutions to problems of the patriarchy somehow involve giving people with dicks more access to women's bodies and I'll consider every one of those "punches" deserved.

But to make someone's pain worse because you find it funny? How could that ever be cool?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #711 on: 22 Feb 2015, 19:11 »

I never said it was. But just because a person is up, it doesn't mean they are incapable of pain. Position is relative !important.

I thought it was funny as hell.

You are up compared to someone. Would it not make your pain fair game is punching up up is morally sound?

As I said, the moral way is "don't punch." I simply concede the humanity is bad at morality.

I would like to think that wasn't the case. It's been 51 years since law admitted that I am a person. It's still, basically okay to kill me for WWB, or DWB, or SIMHWB.

Europe like to turn it's nose up at our problems of that sort, but it was only a few years ago that brown person got to be a marquee character on Doctor Who. After the Jewish market attack in France, there was sudden outbreak of lethal violence against anyone who might have looked Muslim.

I would like us to be better than we are. But we aren't. And nothing gives me any hope that we ever will be. We might, eventually, give up hating on people because of their differences, but I doubt we will ever give up hating on people. We'll just find other means.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #712 on: 23 Feb 2015, 00:00 »

Walking, driving and...sitting in my house?
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #713 on: 23 Feb 2015, 01:29 »

By that reasoning it is acceptable to make dick jokes about trans people. When the average is white and had 40'ish years of male privilege there isn't much more in the way of up to punch.  And certainly many people do find it acceptable.

It's still a _dick_ move.

I'll "punch" about politics, I'll "punch" about acting like dicks, about special snowflakes using their feels to trample over other people because they refuse to see beyond their own wants. I'll "punch" about using the oppressed as a shield to advance nefarious agendas that would make Virginia Prince stand up and cheer. I'll "punch" when the proposed solutions to problems of the patriarchy somehow involve giving people with dicks more access to women's bodies and I'll consider every one of those "punches" deserved.

But to make someone's pain worse because you find it funny? How could that ever be cool?

There is an entire debate thread in Discuss, actually started by me, about this, and I don't consider every single joke to making someone's pain worse. I also make jokes at my own expense, frequently, about my sexuality, my disability, my class and tons of other things. Admittedly, I'm white cis male so it's easier for me to do so, but amongst my circle of friends (of a mix of classes, genders, sexualities, races, etc.) basically nothing is off limits and no-one's pain is being made worse.

While our trans users have had to repeatedly remind me that intent is not magic, that does not mean it's irrelevant either - my best friend can get away with all sorts of off colour jokes about my disability because we know each other and so we know what can be got away with. Almost anyone else outside of maybe a dozen people making the exact same joke? It's not okay.

Anyway, taking the trans issue out of it entirely, I don't think that we as a society need to move on from dick jokes. Dick jokes can be funny. You can also come up with clever, witty dick jokes.

Farts are funny too.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #714 on: 23 Feb 2015, 01:41 »

But to make someone's pain worse because you find it funny? How could that ever be cool?

It's a sort of solipsistic behavioural trait, IMHO. Basically, so long as it makes you feel better, that's all that matters. No-one else matters because, on a very real level, they (or at least their concerns) are of no concern to the 'joker'; indeed, it is arguable that they have no subjective existence to the 'joker' beyond as a butt for their 'humour'. The only exception to this is if the butt of their 'humour' is capable of causing the 'joker' personal harm, in which case they are violating the 'joker's' freedom of speech and victimising the 'joker' because they 'need to learn to take a joke'.

It's basically the same 'only I exist or matter' psychosis that seems to drive most internet trolls.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #715 on: 23 Feb 2015, 13:05 »

Walking, driving and...sitting in my house?

While Black.

All reasons people have been killed.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #716 on: 23 Feb 2015, 20:04 »

Dick jokes are one thing.

Dick jokes about trans people are abuse.

Simple.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #717 on: 24 Feb 2015, 01:26 »

Yes, but I think the point being made in this thread is that one day we can all make jokes about dicks and vaginas and it not actually have to reflect badly on anybody, because all of us have fun wobbly bits that are fun to make jokes about, and at the moment, as has been said, in a large number of cases they can cause damage.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #718 on: 24 Feb 2015, 04:26 »

Yup. That was the point.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #719 on: 26 Feb 2015, 01:14 »

I honestly did not see any of the perceived insults in the image, or I would not have posted it.

My apologies.

I never intend to post anything that will hurt people.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #720 on: 26 Feb 2015, 09:33 »

Global Moderator Comment That's what I thought, but thank you for reassuring people -- that was a kind thing to do.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #721 on: 01 Mar 2015, 04:50 »

I honestly did not see any of the perceived insults in the image, or I would not have posted it.

My apologies.

I never intend to post anything that will hurt people.
If it's any consolation... and speaking purely for myself... I got the Jurassic Park reference, and while there were unfortunate - no, too strong, "ambiguous" - better -  overtones in the whole concept, they didn't rise to the level of "hurt". Or anywhere near it. For me anyway.

So you can put your mind at ease regarding me. I can't speak for others of course.

If I may, may I please keep your apology safe, and take it out for use if ever you do something that deserves to be aplogised for? Because I don't think this did.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #722 on: 01 Mar 2015, 06:09 »

I only saw it as a Jurrasic Park reference as well, and it made me giggle. I wish that were the only possible connotation it had (the second of which I was completely unaware of)  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #723 on: 01 Mar 2015, 06:40 »

I'm just going to go ahead and ditto that.
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