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Who Will Faye Meet and What Substance Are They Abusing?

Tai - Pot
- 11 (13.8%)
Sven - Luuurrrve
- 24 (30%)
Marten - Zen
- 3 (3.8%)
Dora - Coffee
- 5 (6.3%)
Jim - Muffins
- 6 (7.5%)
Sam - Cane Toad Secretions
- 10 (12.5%)
Hannelore - Antiseptic Mouthwash
- 14 (17.5%)
Dale - Maple Syrup
- 7 (8.8%)

Total Members Voted: 74


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Author Topic: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)  (Read 57969 times)

Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #400 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:23 »

Indeed. So, here we come to what I think is the crux of my issue with the meta-thread of these discussions--whether they relate to the current subject, or Dora, or Faye, or Claire ad nauseum. The general approach switches from, "there are issues with this character," to, "this person is a waste of human material."

I'll be the first to admit that human language, as communicated by humans, is imprecise. So some of that is to be expected. But the general flavor of the criticisms are calling out Marigold as a bad person, rather than saying there is an issue with the presentation of the character. If someone identifies with the idea of Marigold the person, then your sweeping criticism of her as a person is going to seem personal. And that is your responsibility.

I think this covers more of what I'm saying.

I mean, even I said that Marigold could have responded better, by clearly stating she got distracted and sorry rather than trying to cover up. But lets be honest, that wouldn't have been a very funny comic.

But when people are basically going: this person has these traits, and they are a horrible person because of it, do you seriously think that nobody else with similar traits is going to take that as pretty insulting?

I'm not nearly as bad as Marigold. I have more social sense than she does, but most of the time, her messing things up is from an ignorance of social norms, not from a lack of CARING. She retreated into herself for entirely different reasons than I have over the years (she was bullied, and avoided social contact because of it, I just avoid social contact not because I can't do it, but because it just tires me, even when everyone is being happy and cool), but that social isolation has done terrible things to her social skills.

And seriously, I think that sometimes people get caught up too much in their own social dynamics and forget that not every friendship is going to be the same. Like I said before, I regularly have friends drop by and just hang out at my house all day, and no one would think anything of it if one or the other of us missed a bit of what each other said. Remember that Hanners once basically sat the entire night and watched Marigold play WoW. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the things they do together isn't just hanging out talking.

Marigold probably didn't realize that Hanners was bothered by what sounded to her like "townie drama". Passively hanging out while doing different things is probably NORMAL to the way they hang out. Notice that Hanners wasn't annoyed that Marigold was reading until it was obvious that she wasn't paying attention.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #401 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:24 »

It just struck me: Hannelore and Marigold are acting like an old married couple.  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #402 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:27 »

Marigold was my introduction to QC. I quickly became fond of her. Possibly because I could see aspects of myself in her. I wanted her to slim down, buff up, and lose the loser self image.
She has indeed grown, and I am pleased for her.

I think ReindeerFlotilla has it right. Imperfect people are not -horrible- people.

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #403 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:34 »

Well, she's smart (i.e., book smart). But practically no common sense, empathy, or emotional intelligence. If it's pointed out to her that she's screwed up, she sometimes gets it. But this is far from the first time that Hanners has reached out to her looking for the same friendship or support that she's given, only to be met with a "What was the middle thing?"

I disagree that Marigold is particularly book smart.  We know she knows how to code it's true.  But she displays a general level of ignorance regarding essentially every intellectual subject.  Most of the rest of the cast gets to have quips from time to time which show they have knowledge of literature, science, history, etc.  Marigold, not so much.  She doesn't seem to read anything besides Manga and Yaoi.  The one time a someone (okay, in her defense, it was Clinton) tried to engage her in a serious discussion about the ramifications of AI, she was dismissive about the whole thing.  She just seems...dull.  Perhaps not duller than average, but duller than majority of the cast. 

More broadly, as to the original debate.  I dislike Marigold because I relate to her.  She reminds me of the worst aspects of myself when I was younger - things which, when they come back into my head today at a ripe old age of 35, still make me cringe.  I want to forget what a dumbass I was regarding people, not revel in it. 

In some ways, I do wonder if Jeph has purposefully crafted Marigold as he has because he wants us to have little compassion for her.  I mean, it's less the case now that she's getting booty, but a lot of the central plot elements during her character buildup the first few years she was in the strip were about watching her be embarrassed about something (including the inevitable buildup to being let down by Angus).  This stuff would have been far more horrifyingly painful if she was a nice person.  Since she's kind of a self-centered ass, however, we can just laugh about it.  She's the nerd we can all feel free to punch away at. 

Edit:  New Comic - Jeph makes my last point for me. 
« Last Edit: 05 Mar 2015, 18:42 by eschaton »
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ASB84

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #404 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:46 »

For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #405 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:47 »

Reindeer, I think I understand the distinction that you're making, but I can't for the life of me figure out why it's a distinction that is so important to make.

Yes, QC is fictional - hopefully I didn't need to actually stipulate that - and its characters are fictional constructs. But they're fictional constructs that represent the behaviors and tics of real people (not any specific historical individuals, just the idea of People), and the comic itself operates heavily within the realm of realism. So why not treat the characters and their role in the story being told, as we would flesh and blood people?

Look at it this way. You could devote a reading of Iago to discussing the authorial techniques Shakespeare uses to show us that he's a multi-dimensional charming sociopath. And that's fine. I suspect that's the version of criticism you prefer, and there's shit-tons of it out there.

But I also don't think it's even slightly odd or beyond the pale to recognize that Iago is a mult-dimensional charming sociopath and then discuss how that impacts the narrative, its themes, its statement about human nature. Would it be a bit over the top to be all "I wouldn't want to be friends with Iago" like we sometimes do about QC characters? Sure. Of course. But I don't think that should foreclose the possibility of just discussing him, or any other fictional character, as though he were real, for the sake of convience, if nothing else, so we're no constantly prefacing our remarks with "Marigold, in the way that Jeph has constructed her character, embodies the following traits, which I find objectionable..."
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aphanisis81

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #406 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:48 »

For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #407 on: 05 Mar 2015, 18:55 »

Butts Disease strikes again!
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #408 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:01 »

Well, there is a difference between comments and Reddit. Pretty much all of Reddit is a turd in a burning paper bag.

Still, if an artist creator can't learn to accept that they will be hated, then they have no business creating. Ya have to take the bad with the good.

There's a world of difference between being criticized and being hated.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #409 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:02 »

For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.

"Audibly" also implies that she's farted in front of him before, but was stealthier about it.  You're fooling no one, Marigold.  Dale knows who dealt it.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #410 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:04 »

It was the dog!
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aphanisis81

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #411 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:05 »

For me, it's the detail of "A policeman started laughing!" that makes this strip an instant Hannergold classic.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #412 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:06 »

For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.

"Audibly" also implies that she's farted in front of him before, but was stealthier about it.  You're fooling no one, Marigold.  Dale knows who dealt it.

"Silent but less-than-lethal"
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #413 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:16 »

It could be worse, Marigold.  It could be worse.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #414 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:19 »

For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.

"Farted" is an amazing word, and a well-chosen adverb can do wonders. I share your sentiment, and there is no shame in this.

"Audibly" also implies that she's farted in front of him before, but was stealthier about it.  You're fooling no one, Marigold.  Dale knows who dealt it.

"Silent but less-than-lethal"

You don't hear the one that gets you.

Of course, if it's football season (in QC time), she could've just said she was calling an audible.  :evil:
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #415 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:30 »

Reindeer, I think I understand the distinction that you're making, but I can't for the life of me figure out why it's a distinction that is so important to make.

...stuff...

There's a rather fundamental difference between, "I wouldn't want to be friends with Iago," and "Iago is a shitty human being."

Maybe Iago is a shitty human. I doubt most people here care. But, imagine for a moment you do. You like Iago, and think "shitty human" is a bit much.

Now imagine there's an open ended discussion of Iago at your favorite hang out, and at least once an hour someone shows up to loudly discuss how shitty a human being Iago is.

Now imagine that every week, the people who were loudly proclaiming Iago's shitty human-being-ness return to say pretty much the same thing.

Now, imagine that after three weeks of this, the Iago hate club dials it back to about three times a day. You think, you can hack it, but the very next day an hourly dissertation on the general shittiness of Othello starts up. You don't even care for Othello, but you don't care if anyone hate him, either. But it keeps happening. In droves. The same people. Over and over, they tell you how much they don't like Iago or Othello, but hardly ever say anything about the story or how the traits they don't like fit into the play. It's just very important for them to tell you that Iago or Othello is a shitty person.

Almost none of this discussion is about how these assessments of the characters impact the story. "I wouldn't want Iago/Othello?etc as friend" is an end to itself. The whole reason for the soliloquy.

If someone praises and aspect of Iago's style and how it set up a deeper issue, it will get an "Iago sucks" in response. When you say, hey.. Maybe that's a bit much, you get "Literary criticism!" When you say, "but none of these people is actually discussing the story, but "I hate Iago," you get "LITERARY CRITICISM!!!!1111111ONE"

NOT ONLY that, but you can't unhear/ignore the hourly interjection because someone always engages the complainer, up to and including quoting everything the person said, verbatim, before responding... often quoting all of the thing other people said in response.

It's kinda like that.

Kugai

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #416 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:55 »

And now they'll never get her to leave the Apartment again
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #417 on: 05 Mar 2015, 19:56 »

Reindeer, I think I understand the distinction that you're making, but I can't for the life of me figure out why it's a distinction that is so important to make.

...stuff...

There's a rather fundamental difference between, "I wouldn't want to be friends with Iago," and "Iago is a shitty human being."

Maybe Iago is a shitty human. I doubt most people here care. But, imagine for a moment you do. You like Iago, and think "shitty human" is a bit much.

Now imagine there's an open ended discussion of Iago at your favorite hang out, and at least once an hour someone shows up to loudly discuss how shitty a human being Iago is.

Now imagine that every week, the people who were loudly proclaiming Iago's shitty human-being-ness return to say pretty much the same thing.

Now, imagine that after three weeks of this, the Iago hate club dials it back to about three times a day. You think, you can hack it, but the very next day an hourly dissertation on the general shittiness of Othello starts up. You don't even care for Othello, but you don't care if anyone hate him, either. But it keeps happening. In droves. The same people. Over and over, they tell you how much they don't like Iago or Othello, but hardly ever say anything about the story or how the traits they don't like fit into the play. It's just very important for them to tell you that Iago or Othello is a shitty person.

Almost none of this discussion is about how these assessments of the characters impact the story. "I wouldn't want Iago/Othello?etc as friend" is an end to itself. The whole reason for the soliloquy.

If someone praises and aspect of Iago's style and how it set up a deeper issue, it will get an "Iago sucks" in response. When you say, hey.. Maybe that's a bit much, you get "Literary criticism!" When you say, "but none of these people is actually discussing the story, but "I hate Iago," you get "LITERARY CRITICISM!!!!1111111ONE"

NOT ONLY that, but you can't unhear/ignore the hourly interjection because someone always engages the complainer, up to and including quoting everything the person said, verbatim, before responding... often quoting all of the thing other people said in response.

It's kinda like that.

We must be reading different forums, because the criticism I see of key characters, while repetitive - inevitability of the medium, I suppose - is consistently either backed by references to the comic or made in the service of arguing a point about the comic. I don't know who these people are who just show up in droves to type "Dora sucks" and then sign off, but they're not showing up on my end very often.

What's with the exaggerated stylization of literary criticism? I'm unclear as to whether that's aimed at me or various other interlocutors.
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Mr. Black Licorice

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #418 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:15 »

My first response upon seeing today's comic: Fart Joke - SCORE!
My second response upon seeing today's comic: Is this realistic female interaction? My wife says no... "Women do not discuss farts, unless its in reference the men in their lives."

I wrote all of this before looking at your reactions. LETS SEE HOW THEY COMPARE!
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #419 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:17 »

We must be reading different forums...

And on that note, I'll be ending this discussion with you. Nothing personal, but we are reading the same forums, so either you weren't here during...Pretty much everything that happened in the last 2 months, or you don't see the things that happened as a problem.

Either way, it seems to represent an irreconcilable difference.

I will say this: "I don't like this about character X and I think it is boring," isn't literary criticism. It's an opinion. When I can trace the same people stating the same opinion repeatedly, with only a very few discussing any effect on the storytelling, I'd say--hyperbole or not--my characterization stands up. Obviously you don't believe that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for whether my "stylization" was aimed, in particular aimed at you, consider this: Why should you care? Why is it far more important who I may or may not have been pointing at than what I was trying to communicate? Why is it that it is okay to say things about fictional characters and it's not the speaker's problem if someone is offended, but the possibility that something might be offensive to you with regard to hypothetical people must be investigated?

As I said, I'm done here. So I don't need an answer. Those questions are purely for your consideration.

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #420 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:20 »

My first response upon seeing today's comic: Fart Joke - SCORE!
My second response upon seeing today's comic: Is this realistic female interaction? My wife says no... "Women do not discuss farts, unless its in reference the men in their lives."

I wrote all of this before looking at your reactions. LETS SEE HOW THEY COMPARE!

Your wife is wrong.

Both based on pure evidence of observing women being women and because any statement beginning with "women do not" is likely false with regard to most subjects, especially behavior.

Are you sure your wife was not being ironic?

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #421 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:23 »

There's always room for Fart Jokes


My friend Nicole would agree
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #422 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:28 »

Speed-lines and talking 'bout farts is a good combination.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #423 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:31 »

I'm a woman.  I'll discuss farts with whoever cares to engage in a conversation about that topic.

Of course, I also wouldn't care if I audibly farted in front of someone I was involved with.  On a first date, maybe, but by this point in Marigold and Dale's relationship?  I'm with Hanners.  It's gonna happen, and you can either laugh with the policeman or die of embarrassment.  Laughing with the policeman is a lot more fun.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #424 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:32 »

My first response upon seeing today's comic: Fart Joke - SCORE!
My second response upon seeing today's comic: Is this realistic female interaction? My wife says no... "Women do not discuss farts, unless its in reference the men in their lives."

I wrote all of this before looking at your reactions. LETS SEE HOW THEY COMPARE!
Your wife is wrong.
Both based on pure evidence of observing women being women and because any statement beginning with "women do not" is likely false with regard to most subjects, especially behavior.
Are you sure your wife was not being ironic?

Both my wife an I write fiction as a hobby. She an I have an ongoing discussion over characterization of women by men writers. She claims she can tell if a female character is written by a man because the character acts more like a man, or how a man would think women act... I think it's a load of bologna myself, but she's accurately identified the gender of the writer in the past based on how the female characters are written, so I can't completely discredit her. All I can say is that she's has a 50/50 chance and she's gotten lucky more times than not.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #425 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:39 »

I'm a woman.  I'll discuss farts with whoever cares to engage in a conversation about that topic.

Of course, I also wouldn't care if I audibly farted in front of someone I was involved with.  On a first date, maybe, but by this point in Marigold and Dale's relationship?  I'm with Hanners.  It's gonna happen, and you can either laugh with the policeman or die of embarrassment.  Laughing with the policeman is a lot more fun.

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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #426 on: 05 Mar 2015, 20:57 »

Both my wife an I write fiction as a hobby. She an I have an ongoing discussion over characterization of women by men writers. She claims she can tell if a female character is written by a man because the character acts more like a man, or how a man would think women act... I think it's a load of bologna myself, but she's accurately identified the gender of the writer in the past based on how the female characters are written, so I can't completely discredit her. All I can say is that she's has a 50/50 chance and she's gotten lucky more times than not.

I believe this, to a certain extent. I don't think it says anything about the general human condition, or the way all women/men/other behave. It just means a large enough population of writers fall into patterns that can be traced to what they read.

Whether you belive those patterns are realistic is reflection of your own biases, though. That's my opinion, anyway.

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #427 on: 05 Mar 2015, 21:20 »

Ending the week on a classy gassy note.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #428 on: 05 Mar 2015, 21:40 »

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #429 on: 05 Mar 2015, 22:35 »

I love the Farting Preacher vids.

On women discussing farts - hell, I had a discussion about -diarrhea- with another woman today. Farts are a minor discussion compared to that.

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #430 on: 05 Mar 2015, 22:59 »

No shit women talk about those sorts of things.  :claireface:
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #431 on: 05 Mar 2015, 23:20 »

Poor Marigold does seem to have issues with that particular body function, doesn't she? I'm not sure if it is because of her generally unhealthy lifestyle or if she's just let her body get used to her being a slob! Either way, I'm sure that the embarrassment will fade with time;Hannelore just has to convince her not to lock herself away again!

It's another example of how Marigold's lifestyle has left her psychologically and emotionally child-like and struggling to deal with things that functional adults can shrug off.

I did like Hannelore's expression in panel 4: "Help! I'm trapped in a room with a crazy person!" it seemed to say! It's probably a sign of how far that she's come that she can actually know what a proportionate response to that event should be.
« Last Edit: 05 Mar 2015, 23:49 by BenRG »
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Aziraphale

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #432 on: 05 Mar 2015, 23:38 »

Poor Marigold does seem to have issues with that particular body function, doesn't she. I'm not sure if it is because of her generally unhealthy lifestyle or if she's just let her body get used to her being a slob! Either way, I'm sure that the embarrassment will fade with time;Hannelore just has to convince her not to lock herself away again!

Everybody farts. Maybe with a bit more discretion, granted, but it's not like she's some kinda flatulent unicorn. :P
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #433 on: 05 Mar 2015, 23:44 »

Do unicorns fart rainbows?
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #434 on: 06 Mar 2015, 00:13 »

Never mind the flatus humor Marigold seems more zoftigesce today. Dang that girl is stacked.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #435 on: 06 Mar 2015, 01:19 »

Poor Marigold does seem to have issues with that particular body function, doesn't she? I'm not sure if it is because of her generally unhealthy lifestyle or if she's just let her body get used to her being a slob! Either way, I'm sure that the embarrassment will fade with time;Hannelore just has to convince her not to lock herself away again!

I'm guessing since she's so used to farting without realizing who's around (like when she was playing WoW with Hanners on the bed), it's now ingrained into her mind that farting is not "embarrassing" to her till it's too late. Old habits die hard I guess......
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #436 on: 06 Mar 2015, 01:24 »

To me, the past two strips have been mostly filler. It seems to me that Jeph is 'walking out' the rest of Tuesday evening (in strip). I suspect that he wants to avoid opening any new plot threads until next week, which means we might have a new major mini-arc. To me, there are two obvious alternatives:
  • Faye at the support group;
  • Taira aftershocks.
I'd handle the latter of the two by having Marten and Claire arriving at the Library, all bright and cheerful, as cute and happy as ever, greeting Emily and maybe some early students before the last panel where they're staring in amazement at Tai, slumped in her seat, with the word 'GLOOM' spelt out in black clouds above her head.

FWIW, I'd prefer to have Tai pouring out her troubles to Marten and/or Claire for Wednesday daytime before moving on to Faye at the support group afterwards. That's might be only because I'm a bit of a neat freak when it comes to keeping plot threads tidy.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #437 on: 06 Mar 2015, 01:25 »

what a wonderful end to the qc week. more of this please and no more Claire and marten ever.

I know a woman who farts and then congratulates herself by saying, "good arse".
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #438 on: 06 Mar 2015, 02:04 »

I must say that if you get a cop to laugh you fucked up. :police:
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #439 on: 06 Mar 2015, 02:34 »

what a wonderful end to the qc week. more of this please and no more Claire and marten ever.

I know a woman who farts and then congratulates herself by saying, "good arse".

What I say is "My soul speaks when the moment is too profound for words."
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2. Whoever you are, there is something to offend you.

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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #440 on: 06 Mar 2015, 02:49 »

Now imagine there's an open ended discussion of Iago at your favorite hang out, and at least once an hour someone shows up to loudly discuss how shitty a human being Iago is.

Now imagine that every week, the people who were loudly proclaiming Iago's shitty human-being-ness return to say pretty much the same thing.

Now, imagine that after three weeks of this, the Iago hate club dials it back to about three times a day. You think, you can hack it, but the very next day an hourly dissertation on the general shittiness of Othello starts up.

You wouldn't like the Evangelion forum I frequent, then.  Some people are still saying the same things - while others say some new and different things - about a show that ended twenty years ago!
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #441 on: 06 Mar 2015, 03:14 »

On reading Marigold's final line, I was instantly put in mind of the ancient music hall song "The Laughing Policeman".
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #442 on: 06 Mar 2015, 04:03 »

We must be reading different forums...

And on that note, I'll be ending this discussion with you. Nothing personal, but we are reading the same forums, so either you weren't here during...Pretty much everything that happened in the last 2 months, or you don't see the things that happened as a problem.

Either way, it seems to represent an irreconcilable difference.

I will say this: "I don't like this about character X and I think it is boring," isn't literary criticism. It's an opinion. When I can trace the same people stating the same opinion repeatedly, with only a very few discussing any effect on the storytelling, I'd say--hyperbole or not--my characterization stands up. Obviously you don't believe that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for whether my "stylization" was aimed, in particular aimed at you, consider this: Why should you care? Why is it far more important who I may or may not have been pointing at than what I was trying to communicate? Why is it that it is okay to say things about fictional characters and it's not the speaker's problem if someone is offended, but the possibility that something might be offensive to you with regard to hypothetical people must be investigated?

As I said, I'm done here. So I don't need an answer. Those questions are purely for your consideration.

Mkay.

ETA: I just noticed that in your "quoting" of my attempt at an explanation/analogy, you reduced the point I was trying to make to "stuff." So, basically, tl;dr. Nice. Guess that'll teach me to spend half an hour trying to construct a post that politely expresses exactly what I think about an issue.

Considering how touchy you are about glib posts, you sure don't seem to have much patience for somebody trying to actually explain themselves, do you?

Furthermore, my inquiry about your mockery of lit-crit had nothing to do with being "offended"; your suggestion that it did might as well have just read "You mad, bro?", btw. No, it had to do with looking back at my posts and trying to see what aspect of them came off as unconvincing or facile. You know, so I can learn from what people found effective or ineffective about my arguments and examples, and adjust accordingly. The day I'm actually "offended" by something an anonymous message board user says is the day I'll know it's time to re-evaluate my priorities.
« Last Edit: 06 Mar 2015, 06:10 by aphanisis81 »
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #443 on: 06 Mar 2015, 07:49 »

To me, the past two strips have been mostly filler. It seems to me that Jeph is 'walking out' the rest of Tuesday evening (in strip). I suspect that he wants to avoid opening any new plot threads until next week, which means we might have a new major mini-arc. To me, there are two obvious alternatives:
  • Faye at the support group;
  • Taira aftershocks.


Probably both, with an Emily/Clinton check-in to liven things up a bit.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #444 on: 06 Mar 2015, 10:43 »

To me, the past two strips have been mostly filler. It seems to me that Jeph is 'walking out' the rest of Tuesday evening (in strip). I suspect that he wants to avoid opening any new plot threads until next week, which means we might have a new major mini-arc. To me, there are two obvious alternatives:
  • Faye at the support group;
  • Taira aftershocks.


Probably both, with an Emily/Clinton check-in to liven things up a bit.

I'm very conflicted about Taira. On the one hand, I thought Wednesday's comic was well done and a great set up for teh dramaz, if that's the direction it's going in. On the other, I feel like we don't know enough about their relationship yet to really have earned a dramatic falling out. If it happens, I feel like it will be less about Tai's role in the relationship than a character-arc vehicle for Dora. And since they're two of my favorite characters, it's intriguing either way.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #445 on: 06 Mar 2015, 10:58 »

I think it's more likely a way to set up more developments rather than a relationship-ender. I can't think of a single instance where there was one falling out that ended everything; any arcs I can think of (Dora/Marten, Dora/Faye, Faye/Angus, even Marten/Padma) built to a split.

Not that this is necessarily headed for a split. The reason I think it could be, though, is that Jeph tends to have two "modes" when it comes to writing relationships: they're either stable, and get backgrounded (Penelope/Wil, Steve/Cosette, Dale/Marigold), or there's a breadcrumb trail of minor annoyances that build to bigger stuff that leads to breakups (Marten/Dora, Faye/Angus, Marten/Padma to a degree*), with outliers like Dora and Jim's relationship.

*I know that Padma and Marten's relationship had an expiration date on the carton from day one, but it's not as though it had to end the way it did; Marten's petulance toward the end tipped the balance in a bittersweet parting decidedly toward bitter. And yes, I'm well aware that someone's going to say I hate Marten now. :P
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #446 on: 06 Mar 2015, 11:28 »

I think it's more likely a way to set up more developments rather than a relationship-ender. I can't think of a single instance where there was one falling out that ended everything; any arcs I can think of (Dora/Marten, Dora/Faye, Faye/Angus, even Marten/Padma) built to a split.

Not that this is necessarily headed for a split. The reason I think it could be, though, is that Jeph tends to have two "modes" when it comes to writing relationships: they're either stable, and get backgrounded (Penelope/Wil, Steve/Cosette, Dale/Marigold), or there's a breadcrumb trail of minor annoyances that build to bigger stuff that leads to breakups (Marten/Dora, Faye/Angus, Marten/Padma to a degree*), with outliers like Dora and Jim's relationship.

*I know that Padma and Marten's relationship had an expiration date on the carton from day one, but it's not as though it had to end the way it did; Marten's petulance toward the end tipped the balance in a bittersweet parting decidedly toward bitter. And yes, I'm well aware that someone's going to say I hate Marten now. :P

Marten-hater!!! There, I beat them to the punch.

I don't think or hope that Tai and Dora will break up either, I just think their running into a rough patch would, on the one hand, be interesting; but on the other, I'm not sure we've seen them together enough to really have context for a conflict.

I'm conflicted about how Marten left it with Padma. I actually feel like that was a big step for him in terms of feeling like les of a doormat, and we really only have Faye's speculation to support the common reading that she Padma was pushing him away because she was into him, or whatever it is she summarized it as...I dunno.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #447 on: 06 Mar 2015, 11:31 »

FWIW, I think that confronting a 'rough patch' and having to fight for their relationship would be a nice way to have some Tai and Dora character moments and character growth. If this goes anywhere, I'm hoping that Jeph takes it there.

One line of dialogue we could see (from Marten or Faye or maybe even Sven) would be someone asking Dora: "Do you really want to lose what you have with Tai?"
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #448 on: 06 Mar 2015, 11:35 »

I think the conflict, such as it is, hasn't been given a huge setup; it's been more like a trail of breadcrumbs. Little throwaway things, small omissions...

And depending on where the wakeup call comes from, it could be an eye-opener for Dora not just in her relationship with Tai, but with a handful of other people as well.
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Re: WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
« Reply #449 on: 06 Mar 2015, 11:36 »

Man, I really wish Marigold was a more interesting character. Her "schtick" has been the same few jokes since her character initially settled, and I feel like arcs that focus on her are significantly less interesting as a result.

I'm not a huge fan of Hanners either, but she's grown significantly as a person (even after the early-comic weirdness), and she's significantly more likeable as a person. It makes sense that the two of them would be friends, but I can't remember the last time I've enjoyed a comic solely with the two of them.  :psyduck:

(Also I think Hanners was more interesting as Hannelore when she was apparently on some crazy anti-anxiety meds and first met Marten.)
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