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Who do you want this week's strips to center on?

Marten
- 6 (9%)
Faye
- 18 (26.9%)
Dora
- 8 (11.9%)
Hannelore
- 8 (11.9%)
Momo
- 7 (10.4%)
Marigold
- 3 (4.5%)
Claire
- 11 (16.4%)
Other (please specify in comment)
- 6 (9%)

Total Members Voted: 63

Voting closed: 29 Apr 2015, 05:04


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Author Topic: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)  (Read 40380 times)

Undrneath

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #300 on: 01 May 2015, 23:49 »

When has there been any indication that Veronica ever hit Marten? Sure, she spanked people, but only people who paid her to.
A professional dominatrix would necessarily take a progressive attitude toward child rearing. But I'm anxious about that "coat rack" that Marten hates so much.

I'm also wondering how Sam was able to access Veronica's underwear drawer. It would make some sense if she had moved in with Jim, but this is her private apartment, right?

As someone who has dated several women with kids (I would assume it would be similar for a woman dating a father) the kids are part of the package and often a "date" is something that everybody can do together. Since we know that Veronica was introduced to Sam very early on in her relationship with Jim it can be inferred that Jim feels comfortable with Sam interacting with Veronica. Additionally I don't think anyone could keep Sam from going where she wants to go.
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Storel

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #301 on: 01 May 2015, 23:54 »

So... I think it would be nice if no one told people with mental illnesses to stop having mental illnesses.

This conjured up an amusing little scene in my mind of someone telling me to just stop being depressed, and me responding "Wait-wait-wait, you mean I can just stop?!? [long pause] Well, sh-t. Why didn't anyone ever tell ME that?"

Well, it amused me, anyway.  8-)

In fairness, benefit of the doubt to willpell, he may have just meant it as a message of solidarity and encouragement rather than the usual 'bro you should be happy cause you're rich and shit' that so many celebrities get after death.

That's the way I read it, kind of like I am constantly tempted to tell my relatives "Please stop dying".

That's exactly how I read it, too, as encouragement rather than, say, nagging. And IICIH's line made me chuckle.

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #302 on: 02 May 2015, 01:01 »

Quote
This conjured up an amusing little scene in my mind of someone telling me to just stop being depressed, and me responding "Wait-wait-wait, you mean I can just stop?!? [long pause] Well, sh-t. Why didn't anyone ever tell ME that?"

See, if I said this, some of my friends and family would say, "That's right, you can stop being depressed any time you want to. You choose not to because I guess you feel you get something positive out of being depressed. I guess you enjoy being treated like a little immature whining baby that can't clean up after it shits itself. Now straighten up, stop being so selfish, stop trying to manipulate others, get a real job (note: I'm an adjunct professor of music at a college and teach piano privately), and join the rest of us adults in the real world. You have no right to feel bad; there are so many people who have it worse off than you."
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hedgie

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #303 on: 02 May 2015, 01:10 »

My friends have actually helped me with my OCD-related problem of being touched by basically being pricks about it.  They know what lines are *not* to be crossed, and avoid those[1] but otherwise perform exposure therapy for free.  My trouble with touching basically started in my mid-20s, and the most physically intimate time I have had in the past decade was spent holding hands with a woman I met at the pub, after I refused a snog.  My friends actually help by being physical and help me "just get over it".  I don't know about Jeph's issues, and it's different for everybody, I know that my depression is harder to deal with, personally, and my bipolar disorder really fucks with me if I skip a dose and I still have episodes.  But sometimes, dealing with things is basically being *made* to deal.  I still have a fuckload of mental problems, but at least I was able to get off the clonazepam and ambien and use "softer" drugs instead and learn ways to cope with it.

[1]  I did have one friend forget about that when I bought her a drink (she was on lunch and didn't have cash) and kissed me on the cheek.  I did a sort of Hanners flailing. 
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amykathleen

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #304 on: 02 May 2015, 01:22 »

I'm also wondering how Sam was able to access Veronica's underwear drawer.
Perhaps Sam's sneaking skills have improved even further.

This conjured up an amusing little scene in my mind of someone telling me to just stop being depressed, and me responding "Wait-wait-wait, you mean I can just stop?!? [long pause] Well, sh-t. Why didn't anyone ever tell ME that?"

Well, it amused me, anyway.  8-)
I am happy to have amused you!  :)
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Re: "Sorry for the simple comic?"
« Reply #305 on: 02 May 2015, 01:23 »

Any objection if I merge this with the weekly comic thread?
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #306 on: 02 May 2015, 01:27 »

There's an xkcd on which the mouseover text is "Hey, look, the Make Everything Better button was behind the bookcase all along!".
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #307 on: 02 May 2015, 15:51 »

I could use a button like that.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #308 on: 02 May 2015, 21:35 »

You have no right to feel bad; there are so many people who have it worse off than you."

By that logic, no one has any right to be happy, because there are so many people happier than they are.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #309 on: 02 May 2015, 21:50 »

And because Felix only likes to hear himself talk.
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Method of Madness

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #310 on: 03 May 2015, 05:41 »

HE LIKES HIS OWN VOICE BEST!
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swapna

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #311 on: 03 May 2015, 14:17 »

When has there been any indication that Veronica ever hit Marten? Sure, she spanked people, but only people who paid her to.
A professional dominatrix would necessarily take a progressive attitude toward child rearing. But I'm anxious about that "coat rack" that Marten hates so much.

I'm also wondering how Sam was able to access Veronica's underwear drawer. It would make some sense if she had moved in with Jim, but this is her private apartment, right?

a) Physical violence is not just hitting people, it's pulling their ears as well - it looks kind of painful, and Marten's making a face. While it can be in good fun, imagine Ms. Augustus pulling Claire's ear while chastising her. That would look different, would it?

b) I think they visited, and Sam brought a present :D
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Method of Madness

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #312 on: 03 May 2015, 14:20 »

I was responding to a post that specifically mentioned hitting. Valid point though.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #313 on: 03 May 2015, 17:18 »

This conjured up an amusing little scene in my mind of someone telling me to just stop being depressed, and me responding "Wait-wait-wait, you mean I can just stop?!? [long pause] Well, sh-t. Why didn't anyone ever tell ME that?"

See, if I said this, some of my friends and family would say, "That's right, you can stop being depressed any time you want to. You choose not to because I guess you feel you get something positive out of being depressed. I guess you enjoy being treated like a little immature whining baby that can't clean up after it shits itself. Now straighten up, stop being so selfish, stop trying to manipulate others, get a real job (note: I'm an adjunct professor of music at a college and teach piano privately), and join the rest of us adults in the real world. You have no right to feel bad; there are so many people who have it worse off than you."

 :grumpypuss: There is so much wrong with that attitude that I don't know where to begin. For your sake, I hope you spend as little time around those people as possible. If any so-called "friend" said something like that to me, we would cease to be friends.
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Re: "Sorry for the simple comic?"
« Reply #314 on: 03 May 2015, 17:22 »

Go for it.
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Jab

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #315 on: 04 May 2015, 00:13 »

The problem of course is that to someone who doesn't fully "get" Depression as an illness, people with depression just come across as self-centred, whiny babies. During "Mental Health Awareness" training as a Union Steward, I got to listen to a Professor who actually detailed the cold, hard reality that yes, people with Depression ARE a pain in the ass to deal with. He acknowledges that it's not their fault, but that the concept of being annoyed by depressed people is a real, natural thing. And that yes, Depression can feed into a person becoming very self-centred and self-obsessed. Depression is a horrible thing to go through, but it can also take a toll on everyone AROUND that person. I know several people with Depression, and while sympathetic to them, they are EASILY the most selfish people I know, because the disease breeds that into them- instead of helping you out or talking you through YOUR problems, they just wallow in self-pity and are unable to do anything.

It's whether or not someone can understand that it's NOT ALL THEIR FAULT, y'know?
« Last Edit: 04 May 2015, 03:07 by Jab »
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #316 on: 04 May 2015, 01:28 »

I had a bout of severe anxiety. Disabling. The kind that affects the involuntary nervous system. On a scale of 1-20, about 18 (there was a test). You might have seen videos of WWI casualties with "shell shock", uncontrollable tremors etc. That was me.

It only lasted a month. I was lucky, usual prognosis is 3 years for a recovery - if that happens. It often doesn't.

It gave me an insight I'd lacked before, Oh I knew depression, anxiety, panic attacks weren't something sheer willpower could overcome, I knew theoretically. Intellectually. Academically.

But when it came to me, I was angry that I couldn't control it. Angry with myself. I knew it - but I hadn't believed it. Now I know it.

I hope I'm more sympathetic, and a better person, as the result. I couldn't help myself, so I'm not sure I can help others - just sympathise, and let them know that I understand and want to help.

Now where's that "make everything better" button again?

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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #317 on: 04 May 2015, 01:42 »

Behind the bookcase.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #318 on: 04 May 2015, 01:58 »

I know several people with Depression, and while sympathetic to them, they are EASILY the most selfish people I know, because the disease breeds that into them- instead of helping you out or talking you through YOUR problems, they just wallow in self-pity and are unable to do anything.
(bolding added)

Except for me, as a person with depression, it's not self-pity.  It's never been self-pity, and I don't wallow.  It's self-hatred, and rather than wallowing in it I drown in it.  I hate myself because I'm sure that everyone else hates me, and then I fear that people are thinking about me the way that you are, and that feeds into my anxiety, and then the anxiety feeds back into the depression and makes me hate myself more, and the whole thing spirals out of control until I reach suicidal ideation and have to go back to the hospital.  I fucking hate it when people think I'm "wallowing in self-pity" when in fact depression-me can't think of a single person less deserving of pity than I am.
It sounds to me as if you, in fact, are the selfish one.  Inability to "do anything" doesn't make a person selfish, it makes them disabled.  Inability to be your free therapist doesn't make a person selfish, either, it makes them not a therapist.  If I am selfish because my depression makes me stay in bed crying instead of fixing everyone's problems, then I suppose my mom must have been selfish as well when she needed the rest of the family to do the housework because weekly chemo treatments left her almost too weak to move.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #319 on: 04 May 2015, 03:18 »

I know several people with Depression, and while sympathetic to them, they are EASILY the most selfish people I know, because the disease breeds that into them- instead of helping you out or talking you through YOUR problems, they just wallow in self-pity and are unable to do anything.
(bolding added)

Except for me, as a person with depression, it's not self-pity.  It's never been self-pity, and I don't wallow.  It's self-hatred, and rather than wallowing in it I drown in it.  I hate myself because I'm sure that everyone else hates me, and then I fear that people are thinking about me the way that you are, and that feeds into my anxiety, and then the anxiety feeds back into the depression and makes me hate myself more, and the whole thing spirals out of control until I reach suicidal ideation and have to go back to the hospital.  I fucking hate it when people think I'm "wallowing in self-pity" when in fact depression-me can't think of a single person less deserving of pity than I am.
It sounds to me as if you, in fact, are the selfish one.  Inability to "do anything" doesn't make a person selfish, it makes them disabled.  Inability to be your free therapist doesn't make a person selfish, either, it makes them not a therapist.  If I am selfish because my depression makes me stay in bed crying instead of fixing everyone's problems, then I suppose my mom must have been selfish as well when she needed the rest of the family to do the housework because weekly chemo treatments left her almost too weak to move.
Perhaps you misread my post, or at least misinterpreted it. I acknowledge fully that it's not the fault of the Depression-sufferer. They have a condition, same as anyone with a more-physically-apparent disease like cancer does. Someone suffering from cancer is ALSO hell on their friends & family, the way someone with depression is, and similarly, it is not their fault that they have the condition. While it obviously does not HELP the Depression-sufferer to hear this, that doesn't change the fact that it is true. It sucks all around.

I can see Self-Hatred in many of the people I know who've had depression, now that you mention it. But I've seen a lot of self-pity, too. People who couldn't help but go on and on about their problems, and craving sympathy from others (as a Union Steward where I work, I've seen this from near-strangers, as well). I would assume that with the many different kinds of depression, there would be many different results.

I don't expect friends to be a "free therapist"- that's a gross exaggeration of my point. That people with depression often can't do the most basic aspects of friendship (like being a shoulder to lean on) is my point. That particular case (the "ignoring your problems" bit) is not based on something that actually happened to me anyhow- it's a general reference to how people with depression can seem to others (and had happened to other friends I know). It's not just about me- the friends I have with Depression are often unable to basically care about ANYONE's problems in the group but their own. The disease MAKES people selfish, in the sense that they become self-obsessed- they're still selfish, but it's not their fault. That's part of why depression utterly SUCKS.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2015, 03:42 by Jab »
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #320 on: 04 May 2015, 06:58 »

As someone who lives with depression, both in my self and in friends/room mates... Yes I know how draining it can be on both sides of that fence. I try to keep my depression mostly to myself when I can. Because I know there's nothing that other people can do to help me. So when I am in a depressive phase, I will tend to isolate. I don't want to drag other people down, and I'm in no fit shape to be around people anyway. On the other hand it is incredibly tiring to be around people who just go on about the things wrong in their life, especially when there is nothing you can do to help, and/or they are not doing or can't do anything to help themselves. And usually it is the same issues over and over because they either aren't dealing with those issues, or they are things they can't do anything about. So yeah... It's not their fault, but it can be very draining to be around them. I look on it something like a life guard and  drowning person... If you see a friend going under, it's natural to want to help... but in their panicing it can be near impossible for a non-professional to help and they could wind up dragging you down too, without meaning to. I've been that person who tried to help everyone... and more often than not I've wound up paying for my kindness.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #321 on: 04 May 2015, 12:16 »

The disease MAKES people selfish, in the sense that they become self-obsessed- they're still selfish, but it's not their fault. That's part of why depression utterly SUCKS.

I understand that illnesses of any kind are hard on the people who care about the patient, but you keep insisting that people with depression are selfish.  Selfishness is not caused by depression, it's caused by selfishness.  It's true that selfish people may use illnesses, either mental or physical, as an excuse for their selfishness, but just because they might claim depression as their reason doesn't make it so.  Anecdata time:
The most generous, selfless person I know is a friend of mine, whom we shall call Kelly, because this is not her name.  Kelly participates in almost every volunteer opportunity offered to her by the church she attends.  When her friends are sick, she brings them soup.  When her friends are sad, she bakes them cookies.  But Kelly also has depression.  Because of that, her rule for sad-friend-cookie-times is that she will provide cookies, hugs, and information about mental health resources if needed, but she can't listen to other people's problems or provide advice.  Also, when she has a depressive episode, she's not able to do all the kind things she normally does, but always apologizes.
The most heinous, selfish person I know is my aunt, my mom's sister, whom we shall call Nancy, because this is not her name, and because she insists on calling others "Negative Nancy" when they disagree with her.  Nancy has no illnesses, mental or physical.  But she is an incredibly selfish person and believes herself to be the center of the universe.  She is selfish all the time - she expects everyone to drop everything to do whatever she wants - but when she is sick or injured, she uses this as an excuse to try and get people to feel sorry for her.  There was a point in time when I was in high school when Nancy's selfishness was particularly absurd.  My mom had just had a radiation treatment, my sister had just had her wisdom teeth out, and I had just had foot surgery.  So all three of us were at home, in pain, resting, while my dad was at work.  Nancy dropped by without warning, and was furious that we hadn't prepared dinner for her or put on nice clothes before she came over.  Her "reason" for coming over and demanding to be fed, although she had been told weeks in advance that she couldn't rely on us during that week?  She had gotten a paper cut the previous evening and "couldn't cook."  I think we all wanted to strangle her.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #322 on: 04 May 2015, 15:59 »

I don't think that depression makes people selfish. (or shelfish, although they can be solitary as an oyster) I think that sometimes selfish people have depression.

In addition to suffering from depression myself, I have several friends who also have depression. None of us experience it in the same ways. We support  each other to the extent that we are able.

But friendship is a two way street.

One friend, who lived a distance away from me, accused me of being a bad friend to her because I wasn't hanging out with her as much as I used to when we lived together. I admitted that it was my bad, and began making more time for her. but she flaked on me 75% of the time. No call, no show.

When I would ask her later, she would say "I'm sorry, I fell asleep" or "oops, I forgot". I know that sleeping very deeply or irregularly and forgetfulness can be symptoms of depression. But she was holding down a job, she was able to keep other commitments. I came to the conclusion that she clearly didn't prioritize my time, or my friendship. If she had, she would have called and said "sorry, I'm too tired, I need to crash." or something of that nature.

Needless to say, I stopped making time for her, and now I only invite her to things where other people will be attending, so that if she flakes, my time isn't wasted.

Maybe this makes me a bad friend, after all, I didn't do absolutely everything I could to be supportive for my friend who had depression. But friendship goes two ways, and her flaking on me all of the time was frustrating me, annoying me, and causing me to feel more anxiety.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #323 on: 05 May 2015, 01:23 »

I think we're perhaps being a bit too reactionary to the word 'selfish' as being a criticism... I think depression can be extremely selfish, because you sometimes can't see past your own nose. It's just that it isn't your fault.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #324 on: 05 May 2015, 03:41 »

Perhaps say "self-absorbed" rather than "selfish"; that comes over as less judgemental (though I agree it's not exactly the same).
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #325 on: 05 May 2015, 06:34 »

I think self-absorbed sounds just as bad, honestly.
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Re: WCDT 2947-2951 (27 April to 1 May 2015)
« Reply #326 on: 06 May 2015, 03:40 »

There's a lot of hits on Google for "Depression" and "Selfish", and often it's on sites that are attempting to help those WITH depression, in essence explaining why people with depression act the way that they do. It's even considered one of the warning signs for depression (though presumably it's hard to separate it from common douchebaggery). The problem is there's no word for "Selfish, but not your fault" in the English language, so it's hard to not make it sound confrontational. It's like someone being fat because they had a thyroid condition.

Here's an example: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-fitness/200907/10-little-known-facts-about-depression

I've had a lot of interactions with people who have depression- one of my best friends has it, an ex of his had it, and an ex-girlfriend of mine had it. Plus my best friend's wife has it to a lesser degree. The first three were all incredibly self-focused (is that a better term for it?), to an extent that would basically make them seem monstrous if it wasn't a medical condition causing it. My friend was constantly harping on about his own problems, once used self-harm to make a girl feel bad for going with another guy, and always drew attention to himself- his brother (my best friend) described their childhoods as him constantly attempting to get attention with loud caterwauling and "I'm SAD!" complaining, resulting in my best friend getting neglected a lot. He was notoriously self-absorbed- he thought nothing of borrowing or mooching off of others, but would FREAK if people asked the same of him. When called on behavior, he would often get defensive or just flat-out lie to escape criticism. It took him YEARS to mature a bit. And years before I realized that a lot of his behavior was a result of his depression- before that, he just seemed like an asshole.

And I realized years later while watching The Sopranos that Tony Soprano (also a Depressive) had many of the same character traits- he was an "eater"- someone who made everyone's lives hell and could only think of himself. Obviously Tony's sociopathy made things much worse on that end.

Both the girls were bad for drawing attention to themselves, giving their life stories to everyone they knew in order to get sympathy, and were horrible for borrowing money and eventually just STEALING things. Oddly, all three of these people were bad with money and frequently borrowed it without paying it back. Is that common with depression sufferers? It doesn't seem like it; maybe just a weird coincidence.

In any case, the most-normal is my friend's wife, who had the lowest-grade depression. And even she could descend into helplessness and self-absorption, making her husband do everything for her. But that's the disease, y'know?

I've also had co-workers with depression who sort of piled work and complaining onto others. This of course doesn't mean that other people I knew who were totally nice didn't suffer from it- but if that was the case, then they never revealed the condition to me. So I COULD just be using a small sample-size, but given that the only people I know who had depression were also the most-self-centred, AND it's corroborated by real scientific evidence in other cases, it seems pretty clear to me.

And that's kind of the shitty thing- someone who can't do anything to help someone because they had Cancer or some other disease would get sympathy, but the depressed generally do not, because it's not some physical thing you can clearly SEE. In every case, the person with the disease suffers, but also everyone AROUND them does, as they have to watch this person helplessly-fall. Sick people of all types often feel guilt for it (guilt naturally being the WORST thing for a Depressive), even though rationally they shouldn't. It's just the thing.
« Last Edit: 06 May 2015, 03:47 by Jab »
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