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Author Topic: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015  (Read 18745 times)

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #50 on: 06 May 2015, 11:24 »

That only helps if you know the direction you are supposed to be going in. And no, I don't think Ardent would deliberately go the wrong way. He was the only one who wanted to go into town after all. It was his pushing and instance that they go that led to the trip in the first place. It's pointless to force someone to go someplace if you aren't going to go there anyway.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #51 on: 06 May 2015, 11:46 »

But then why would he have talked her into going to the town at all, if he wasn't planning on going there?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #52 on: 06 May 2015, 20:36 »

I'm a bit late to the party (as usual), but I wonder if Ardent took them the wrong way on purpose, ...  bright enough to at least have a basic sense of direction.

Nope.  Ardent is just a teenager.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #53 on: 07 May 2015, 05:27 »

I'm pretty sure we still don't know their age, but they're probably used to having GPS to take them anywhere they need to go.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #54 on: 07 May 2015, 23:06 »

I wish to file a complaint against the family in panel 2.
If you are assuming to be in danger, quite possibly the last thing you should be doing is grappling the main fighting limbs of your protector.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #55 on: 08 May 2015, 03:34 »

Rereading, and enjoyed this bit of foreshadowing:

"Explosions seem unlikely."
"That your professional opinion?"
"I'll go get my pokin' stick!"
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #56 on: 08 May 2015, 05:19 »

I wish to file a complaint against the family in panel 2.
If you are assuming to be in danger, quite possibly the last thing you should be doing is grappling the main fighting limbs of your protector.
If your protector looks like he might plunge himself into a fight against a superpowered demon he cannot possibly win, out of a notion of "heroic sacrifice", it might be a rational decision to hold him back, though.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #57 on: 08 May 2015, 05:30 »

If they're holding him back, then they're his protector, not the other way around.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #58 on: 08 May 2015, 08:05 »

It is often a two-way street.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #59 on: 09 May 2015, 20:20 »

It is often a two-way street.
with no cross walks and the intersections are hazardous
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #60 on: 11 May 2015, 20:57 »

Is that a spear next to the pitchfork? If so what is it doing in a peaceful farming community? Do they have wildlife control problems?

It looks like the middle guy has an axe slung over his shoulder. It just looks weird because we're seeing it from the perspective of the base of the handle.


I guess it could be a trident.
I thought it was one of those hoe/mattock things - you know, like a scythe but with the blade set at 90 degrees for scoopage.

I thought it was a trowel at first. :psyduck:

That's an axe all right, but that is no pitchfork.  It looks like a spading fork, but I've never seen one with only three tines.
« Last Edit: 13 May 2015, 22:42 by mustang6172 »
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #61 on: 12 May 2015, 19:22 »

So, the guys in this strip: I can't help but see them as Well-Tanned Steve, Beefy Marten*, and Young Jimbo.

* Well, Beefier Than Marten, anyway. He's still on the slender side, but not pathetically scrawny like that guy in the other strip.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #62 on: 12 May 2015, 20:04 »

I am coming to realize that Ardent has all the survival instincts of a lemming. Perhaps less.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #63 on: 12 May 2015, 20:27 »

Ok, that looks nothing like Steve. I'll give you Marten and Jimbo though.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #64 on: 12 May 2015, 22:57 »

Alice fixes things, tends things, cleans things, pacifies people and looks after disruptive fools.
If I were in Alice's position I would have exploded by now.  If they punished me for something by putting me into Alice's position, I would explode again!
What is going on in Alice's head?  I don't get her motivation.  I know that nurses and NGO workers tend to bitch to each other about all sorts of issues.  Are nuns like Alice?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #65 on: 12 May 2015, 23:38 »

Something that I suspected has now been proven true: Ardent actually is that na´ve about human threats! He really doesn't seem to realise just how tense and dangerous that this situation could be, especially with some of the townsfolk so upset that they are willing to defy Alice. Does he lack a survival instinct or is he just plain dumb? Personally, I think that it is an indication of just how safe 'Up' is under the Praeses' direction.

I'm trying to work out what Alice is going to do to Jeb. Either he's going to come back babbling that he knows what it is like to be a frog or he's going to have a whole new outlook on life based on Alice's merciless deconstruction of his personality.

Meanwhile, what happens when one of the townsfolk succumbs to curiosity and approaches Gavia?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #66 on: 12 May 2015, 23:44 »

Something that I suspected has now been proven true: Ardent actually is that na´ve about human threats! He really doesn't seem to realise just how tense and dangerous that this situation could be, especially with some of the townsfolk so upset that they are willing to defy Alice. Does he lack a survival instinct or is he just plain dumb? Personally, I think that it is an indication of just how safe 'Up' is under the Praeses' direction.
I suspect he's enjoying getting a rise out of the natives.  "Oh!  A hold up!  Wait, let me get my camera, can you hold this bag for me?"

I'm trying to work out what Alice is going to do to Jeb. Either he's going to come back babbling that he knows what it is like to be a frog or he's going to have a whole new outlook on life based on Alice's merciless deconstruction of his personality.
Yeah.  Either is possible.

Meanwhile, what happens when one of the townsfolk succumbs to curiosity and approaches Gavia?
I would love them to have a conversation, sans fireworks!

(Fixed the quotes - Method)
« Last Edit: 13 May 2015, 15:54 by Method of Madness »
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #67 on: 13 May 2015, 00:02 »

When there are signs of unrest, Alice picks the perceived leader for a one-to-one talk. I like this strategy :-)

Jebediah obviously needs to learn, he has not the same respect for Alice as Beefy Marten. I am sure Alice can be quite persuasive, without using more force than necessary. That grip on his arm is probably strong enough to make him realize Alice is not to be messed with.

Alice is both respected and feared by the townspeople. This probably means Alice has not any real friends. She lives by herself, outside the town. She must be lonely at times, as the centuries and millenia pass away. She may have lovers sometimes, but no long term relationship (when you are immortal, every relationship is short term). Did she ever have children? Did they grow old and die?

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #68 on: 13 May 2015, 00:08 »

Why is it on hearing that name I'm suddenly hearing this .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #69 on: 13 May 2015, 02:49 »

You too, huh?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #70 on: 13 May 2015, 05:50 »

Either that, or...
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #71 on: 13 May 2015, 06:14 »

I was the guy screaming "You misspelled my name!"  :lol:
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #72 on: 13 May 2015, 13:34 »

I think some or all of these applies:
1) Alice needs to remind Jeb about a time when she handled him and wants to do it privately so she doesn't cause him further public embarrassment
2) Alice wants to remind Jeb about why they call her a witch with a practical demonstration of her power
3) Alice wants to set some kind of play-acting up with him to punk Gavia or Ardent (somewhat unlikely)
4) Alice wants to deputize him and explain the conditions under which she would accept his "help" (very unlikely)
5) Alice is calling in some kind of favor that she doesn't want the rest to know about

other?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #73 on: 13 May 2015, 13:35 »

I also think it's likely we won't see the conversation and Jeb will come back with some new expression on his face that we won't know the true origin of.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #74 on: 13 May 2015, 20:11 »

Jebediah is right, though, from any reasonable perspective the townsfolk could possibly have.

This may show us something more important of Alice's character.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #75 on: 14 May 2015, 01:33 »

The black haired character in today's strip looks very like Marten
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #76 on: 14 May 2015, 02:02 »

Jebediah is right, though, from any reasonable perspective the townsfolk could possibly have.

This may show us something more important of Alice's character.

Everything I've seen so far suggests that Alice cares for the people in her area. However, she is quite cold and unfriendly. She very obviously doesn't enjoy being around them. I wouldn't go so far as to say she dislikes them but she certainly doesn't actively seek to have more than the strictest minimum interaction with them.

Maybe that is part of the Praeses' plan - Force Alice to live with people who are going to be heading in and out of town, thus forcing her to develop connections one way or another.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #77 on: 14 May 2015, 15:26 »

Hmmmmm

Interesting theory.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #78 on: 14 May 2015, 16:55 »



Maybe that is part of the Praeses' plan - Force Alice to live with people who are going to be heading in and out of town, thus forcing her to develop connections one way or another.

(click to show/hide)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #79 on: 14 May 2015, 20:42 »

Comic.

Scary Alice is scary. Of course, if she's been alive for as long as she claims, she probably has the right to be a bit... psycho.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #80 on: 14 May 2015, 20:58 »

Aaaand now I don't like Alice. I have an automatic dislike for anyone who says 'I'm older and smarter than you, so I don't have to explain myself.' I also have an automatic dislike for anyone who says 'I'm bigger and stronger than you, so do what I say.'  Alice just did both.

Jebediah's question was totally legitimate: From all he's seen of Gavia, she torched the town with absolutely no provocation and the people were helpless to stop her. He hasn't seen her outside of that context. (Heck, even around Alice's property, Gavia appeared to be near torching some kids until Ardent stopped her.)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #81 on: 14 May 2015, 21:07 »

^


Well, we sorta knew she was probably gonna be like that. Could've went worse.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #82 on: 14 May 2015, 21:57 »

Dangit, now I WANT to see Alice "flex her muscles", see what else she can do.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #83 on: 14 May 2015, 22:07 »

Awesome, awesome range of facial expressions.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #84 on: 14 May 2015, 23:30 »

Sweet tapdancing Christ. You tryin' to make him die of fright, Alice?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #85 on: 14 May 2015, 23:34 »

Just a reminder that Alice is fundamentally not a nice person. Panel 6 reminds us that she is super-strong and that she likes hitting people. :-o That said, there is an oddly ritual feel to her threats. Did she ever serve as a military DI?

Also, it's now confirmed that Alice is very old. Jedediah would have know if she was lying about how long that she's been around.

Awesome, awesome range of facial expressions.

Agreed 100%
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #86 on: 15 May 2015, 00:26 »

Aaaand now I don't like Alice. I have an automatic dislike for anyone who says 'I'm older and smarter than you, so I don't have to explain myself.' I also have an automatic dislike for anyone who says 'I'm bigger and stronger than you, so do what I say.'  Alice just did both.

Jebediah's question was totally legitimate: From all he's seen of Gavia, she torched the town with absolutely no provocation and the people were helpless to stop her. He hasn't seen her outside of that context. (Heck, even around Alice's property, Gavia appeared to be near torching some kids until Ardent stopped her.)
Well, yes. You know, power corrupts (and absolute power corrupts absolutely). Alice is bound to be a bit psycho after all these years. Basically, she tries to do what she perceives is the best for the inhabitants; unfortunately, that also means she does not ask them for advice, but dictates how things should be done. I guess that is why there is no apparent mayor or police, Alice takes care of it all.

The Praeses might have an idea on how to correct Alice's behavior, and sent her a couple of horrible kids for a starter.

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #87 on: 15 May 2015, 00:36 »

I'm wondering now who the protagonist is supposed to be. If it's Alice... I've already said I don't like her, so that's not a good thing. Ardent and Gavia also kind of fit, except I don't know why I should really root for them. Who am I supposed to cheer for? What am I supposed to want to happen? (There HAS to be a better way to phrase that question...)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #88 on: 15 May 2015, 00:43 »

We don't always have to like a protagonist.

Sometimes they grow. Sometimes they fail.

We'll see I suppose.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #89 on: 15 May 2015, 00:53 »

We don't always have to like a protagonist.

Sometimes they grow. Sometimes they fail.

We'll see I suppose.
It helps, though. At the very least you need to empathize with your Protagonist, and I certainly can't do that with a millenium old superhero, a blue alien with no sense of boundaries or consideration for others, or a floating alien who mostly just complains.

I'm interested by the universe enough to keep reading, but if the link weren't right there on the QC page, ready as soon as I finish checking for updates, I probably wouldn't still be keeping up.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #90 on: 15 May 2015, 01:03 »

Alice is obviously the protagonist, but she is not without flaws. Improving her character may be a main theme of the series. Jeph may want to illustrate the "superhero syndrome": Even if Alice initially had good intentions, things will go bad unless someone is able to correct her behavior.

Besides Alice's worrying behavior, and the Ardent/Gavia problem, I want to know whatever happened to Jack?

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #91 on: 15 May 2015, 01:17 »

I don't like Alice.
She's not boring, though!

To be fair, I'm pretty sure she only used this tactic because she knew it was the only way to convince him.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #92 on: 15 May 2015, 01:26 »

We don't always have to like a protagonist.
... Sometimes they fail.

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #93 on: 15 May 2015, 01:30 »

Back at the start of volume 2, I speculated that the long-term plot of the comic would be the personal growth and 'salvation' of sorts of all three main characters - Alice, Ardent and Gavia. I suspect that it is going to be how the three of them inadvertently helped the others to grow as people and about the situations and mysteries that influenced that growth.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure she only used this tactic because she knew it was the only way to convince him.

I, too wonder if the way Alice handled Jeb is related to that comment about him 'respecting strength'. Depending on who it was, she might have handled it differently (but still in an overbearing way). It's just that Jeb is one of the town roughs and the only thing that really impacts on his decision-making process is the threat of force and the threat of being humiliated in front of the townsfolk.

Maybe Jeb is an antisocial type and is the leader of the town troublemaking idlers, getting away with it just because he's the biggest and strongest. Being physically crushed by a slender woman who has to strain her neck to look him in the eye would destroy that reputation for being the local top physical specimen and his position in the community and his peer group would never recover. It's that threat, more than any threat of being physically beaten down, which will probably make him back down. Alice's reputation of being a violent, homicidal sociopath with super-strength, invulnerability and a raft of other superpowers (a sort of female Hancock) just makes the threat that much more plausible.

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #94 on: 15 May 2015, 01:34 »

I don't like Alice.
She's not boring, though!

To be fair, I'm pretty sure she only used this tactic because she knew it was the only way to convince him.

Sounds reasonable. Big hunky dude might not be easy to persuade by reason, as we see with the futile attempt from the other dude on last comic.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #95 on: 15 May 2015, 01:35 »

We don't always have to like a protagonist.
... Sometimes they fail.

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #96 on: 15 May 2015, 01:44 »

I don't like Alice.
She's not boring, though!

To be fair, I'm pretty sure she only used this tactic because she knew it was the only way to convince him.
How can we be sure, though? All I know about Jebediah is that he's a guy who's worried about his town and distrustful of Gavia. We just have to take Alice's word for it that she knows him best, and she knows how it's best to treat him, since we're not given a chance to see things any other way.

If we had seen her try to explain Gavia's perspective, then get shut down with a 'That doesn't matter, the demon is evil', and THEN Alice went all 'I'm-superior and you-don't-matter,' she'd be a lot better off, but as it is we have only assumption and her (unreliable) opinion that this was the best course of action.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #97 on: 15 May 2015, 01:48 »

How can we be sure, though?
We can't! That's half the fun.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #98 on: 15 May 2015, 02:08 »

How can we be sure, though? All I know about Jebediah is that he's a guy who's worried about his town and distrustful of Gavia. We just have to take Alice's word for it that she knows him best, and she knows how it's best to treat him, since we're not given a chance to see things any other way.

If we had seen her try to explain Gavia's perspective, then get shut down with a 'That doesn't matter, the demon is evil', and THEN Alice went all 'I'm-superior and you-don't-matter,' she'd be a lot better off, but as it is we have only assumption and her (unreliable) opinion that this was the best course of action.

All that would have done is use up a few strips for no real narrative advantage. The comments on this thread show that the readers get the points of this conversation:
  • Alice is way older than she looks and has likely known all the town's residents from birth;
  • Alice already knows that Jebediah isn't the sort to listen to sweet reason; he'll only respond to the threat of physical pain and/or humiliation in front of the town (the latter being more likely).
In the end, how can we be sure? We can be sure because that's the path Alice took. At least with the town, its residents and the surrounding lands, I think that we can be sure she's more likely to be right than wrong. Any holes in her knowledge (and the resulting fun of her being dramatically wrong) will come when she's dealing with something from "up" that is out of her normal area of expertise.

With a two-strip-per-week update rate, Jeph can't afford to waste strips on verbiage that can just as easily be taken as read. I think that he made the right call here.

FWIW, I'm more and more sure that Alice is a reliable source and rather enjoys people telling themselves that she's lying or exaggerating when she's actually told them the unvarnished truth.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #99 on: 15 May 2015, 03:24 »

An extra single line of dialogue would have done it. One panel. It doesn't take a lot to establish stuff. Just have Alice say something like "That was a miscommunication, she didn't intend to hurt anyone," and have Jeb cut her off saying that he didn't care. One panel. Easy.

You're assuming that Alice is correct because Alice says she's correct... Without bothering to try and explain the situation peacefully. Her immediate first resort after someone dared ask a legitimate question was to threaten physical violence and humiliation. (Because again, expressing concern over letting a firey demon walk around your city is a fair thing to do.)

Besides: It doesn't matter if she's certain that's the only way to get through to him either: Using vast intellect to manipulate and push around weaker and stupider people is not an admirable trait. It's something bad guys do.
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