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Author Topic: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015  (Read 42990 times)

mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #200 on: 24 May 2015, 20:21 »

My point was that I'm having a hard time believing that such an immensely powerful technology can't overcome light wind resistance. (And, as I said, if that were the case then she'd fall apart in actual wind.) I know when I run, my limiting factor is gravity by far. I barely even *feel* wind resistance at my top speed. (Which, admittedly, isn't particularly impressive.)
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TheCollector

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #201 on: 24 May 2015, 21:03 »

Y'know, I just realized this, but ya really gotta wonder if constantly floating has caused any anthropy in Gavia's legs.
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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #202 on: 24 May 2015, 21:49 »

Y'know, I just realized this, but ya really gotta wonder if constantly floating has caused any anthropy in Gavia's legs.
I haven't seen them exploring and studying branches of humanity, that's mostly Ardent's job.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #203 on: 24 May 2015, 21:53 »

Maybe she is mis-ing it.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #204 on: 25 May 2015, 23:29 »

New comic!
Okay, something tells me that poor Jeb will be blushing like a stop light all day!

It's interesting how Alice described what happened over the last couple of strips to Gavia. It seems to me that Alice has a real problem with being jaded. Maybe that's what the kids are for: to shake up her complacency and remember why she started to do it, so very long ago.

Meanwhile, Ardent reminds us just how alien everything about this world is to the space siblings.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #205 on: 26 May 2015, 01:51 »

Good thing Alice was there or Ardent would've learned the other use of a pitchfork...
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #206 on: 26 May 2015, 04:46 »

Ardent's joy is infectious :)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #207 on: 26 May 2015, 16:18 »

As powerful as she is, I think Gavia still has a fair bit of growing up to do, the same with Ardent

Hmmm

Maybe they're the 'Spoiled Brats' of their society and sending them down into Alice's world is a way to force them to grow up.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #208 on: 26 May 2015, 23:35 »

Maybe they're the 'Spoiled Brats' of their society and sending them down into Alice's world is a way to force them to grow up.

Gavia, definitely. As for Ardent, I think that they're trying to break him of his 'primitive is cool' delusion by making him live it for a while.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #209 on: 27 May 2015, 04:10 »

But he seems mildly amused about doing things the primitive way. Maybe not super-thrilled, but...
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #210 on: 27 May 2015, 04:16 »

But he seems mildly amused about doing things the primitive way. Maybe not super-thrilled, but...

No-one said that the plan had to work. Or that it wouldn't have unanticipated consequences!
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #211 on: 28 May 2015, 10:20 »

Maybe a little tell in P2 http://www.alicegrove.com/post/118999472319/alice-is-getting-scary-again

"And I've been watching over this town longer than your whole family has lived here"

Am I reading too much into it when I think that "has lived here" this implies that there's somehow somewhere else they could have lived?

This casts the Grove as a place into which whole families can be reassigned, relegated, sent, etc. Not exactly a prison, necessarily, but Alice-as-warden kind of makes sense given her general affect.

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Neko_Ali

Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #212 on: 28 May 2015, 10:54 »

All that really means is that there are other areas, other towns that people live in. Not that people are forced to live in this town. People resettle all the time, set up new communities or just migrate. All we really know is that there is a much more advanced society 'up there' and they are normally forbidden from interacting with the people 'down here'.

Given the clearly non-terran species we have seen, I suspect this is a settled world, where the ancestors of the people wanted to live a life without all the technology that almost seems to dominate their society. The Nightwalker may be the remnants of terraforming nanomachines or something similar, to make the planet suitable for human habitation, or vice versa. After generations the people have mostly forgotten about where they come from, but the world is still considered officially 'off limits' to visitors.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #213 on: 28 May 2015, 16:31 »

The weird species look more like gene-tweaked versions of terrestrial life than alien.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #214 on: 28 May 2015, 17:33 »

And the moon looked a lot like good old Luna too. I'd say this is our Earth, some thousands of years after a biotechnological apocalypse.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #215 on: 28 May 2015, 17:54 »

Caused by Alice?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #216 on: 28 May 2015, 19:54 »

I doubt it was caused by Alice, but I think she's annoyed that she has to clean up after it.

And: new comic. And it has someone who Alice treats with something resembling respect. Will wonders never cease?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #217 on: 28 May 2015, 20:05 »

The respect appears to be mutual. He's not afraid of her like the younger villagers are.
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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #218 on: 28 May 2015, 21:51 »

The respect appears to be mutual. He's not afraid of her like the younger villagers are.
He's had enough time to be indoctrinated by fear into obeying and revering her, so she no longer needs to talk down to him to make him listen.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #219 on: 28 May 2015, 22:16 »

I'd say just the opposite -- he's been around long enough to know that Alice is mostly harmless and doesn't like it when people are cowed by her.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #220 on: 28 May 2015, 23:24 »

So... A couple of mysteries to round out the month.

Firstly: Is Gavia really ashamed of her attack? If so, how do we square this circle with her nearly cooking those kids? I think that she's ashamed, but I also think that she's got a very short temper as well as a tendency to react without thinking. This is not a good personality combination for a girl with super powers.

Now... Secondly and more interesting, why has Alice brought the space kids to see Old Amos? It's possible that, as a town elder, he's the best choice to spread the word that they are (mostly) harmless. However, that's making assumptions about an old man's influence. Maybe, instead, Jeph intends to use him to tell some back story. Something along the lines of " when I was young... " Alice isn't very forthcoming, so, any exposition about her and her role will have to come from someone else. As probably the oldest normal human in town, Amos is ideally placed to tell the tale.

Finally... Am I the only one who has started to see Ardent's smile as saying: "Vacant. Please try again later"?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #221 on: 28 May 2015, 23:37 »

Hmm.  Rather more like the relationship between the Lord of the Manor (Alice)  and the Manor's reeve (you never "just visit")
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #222 on: 29 May 2015, 00:27 »

Is it just me or does this entire concept or threatening people with violence sound wrong?

Young dude just saw this floating woman nearly burn everything he holds dear into a crisp, am I the only one who understands why he doesn't want her around any more? And then there's this superwoman who threatens him with physical violence against trying to protect his own people? What the fuck, Jacques? You think it's funny to threaten just because it's a dude? You think it's empowering to women or something? What if the roles were reversed?

Let's see, a male demon-like floating being appeared in town, started burning it up, Superman stepped in and takes demon away, then the demon dude comes back. He says everything is fine, but one woman doesn't trust him around her loved ones, so she tells him to get the fuck out of her town. Then Superman reappears, and tells the woman that if she speaks again he will enjoy beating her to death.

Does this sound empowering to any of you? Let's continue the story.

Superman and Demon man and his sister who looks like a Succubus go to see the village elder. It's an elderly woman. She tells the demon that if he tries anything funny again she'll kick his ass. At which point the Demon dude scoffs at her and Superman humors her. "Hey Demon man I won't be around to protect you when she kicks your ass". You can almost hear Alice being patronizing.

Is this acceptable behavior? Or is it okay when women do it because feminism or whatever you think feminism is?

I'm not saying change the character behavior, but if you want it to look believable, well everyone in the village now thinks Superman, I mean Alice, is a huge dick, and they don't want her around. She's actually a bad guy, of the Doctor Doom variety: a villain who thinks she knows better and that only her opinion matters.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 00:47 by Jesus DeSaad »
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #223 on: 29 May 2015, 00:31 »

In Alice's place, how would you have handled the situation?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #224 on: 29 May 2015, 00:43 »

Bring the village elder to my place after explaining the situation, instead of bringing two demon-like beings and letting them sight-see around the town they almost eradicated. Try to diffuse the very palpable and completely understandable fear of the villagers with reason, instead of "OBEY MY ILLOGICAL WHIMS OR I WILL BEAT YOU TO DEATH AND LAUGH WHILE AT IT".

She's the one who's supposed to be thousands of years old, and she displays the temperament of a child with ADHD on a sugar rush. That's just bad writing.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 00:49 by Jesus DeSaad »
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #225 on: 29 May 2015, 01:18 »

I don't think you're quite grasping the situation. Yes, Gavia almost MOAB'd the village down, but that was taken care of. And we do understand that Jeb might not want her around at all, but that's not his call to make. No-one's actually.

Jeb was first and foremost told that the "demons" are not dangerous. Something I believe Alice should know better since she's lived with them for several weeks and everyone in town knows that. Jeb responded with a "SHUT UP WOMAN". There's people who only react to brute force, think of the school bully. Since Alice probably knows Jeb better than Jeb knows himself, she decided to go that route because she knew it'd be quick, effective and easy. Something really important if you need to defuse a bomb, which was basically the case here.

Reminder that Alice is regarded to as a witch. "Reason" at the level of tech the vicissitudes are working with probably does not apply to these people. "Listen, they're not dangerous, they just have <insert convoluted tech talk here>" "BURN THEM".
I know Gavia did that to some townsfolk, but that was AFTER Alice told them "You can trust me when I tell you that they're not dangerous".

Which by the way would be the same thing the village elder would say after being explained the situation and most definitely he's several hundred years younger than Alice, so I still don't see how your point could work.

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Neko_Ali

Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #226 on: 29 May 2015, 07:26 »

Didn't we have basically this same conversation a few weeks ago? An important thing to remember is that Jeph is a writer. These are characters. Just because a character has a certain trait doesn't mean that the author has it, or espouses it as a good thing. Alice is an ancient being, and a powerful one. None of the people in the village are contemporaries to her in any way. She is also patronizing, arrogant and enjoys being feared a little bit. She's also used to her authority and knowledge going unquestioned. In some ways, she's a bully, the big fish in a lake of single celled organisms. In other ways she's an adult watching over a pre-school. Her interaction with Jeb was basically a four year old yelling at her, and her pulling him aside and saying "Calm down and listen to what I say. Do you want me to give you a spanking in front of your friends? If you listen, I'll give you a cookie." She's not a nice person, but she's hardly an example of Evul Feminizm either.

Both Gavia and Ardent have issues with self control and boundaries, largely because of the environment they were raised in, most likely. Gavia mentioned that children run free where they come from because it's safe for them to. She also has a short temper and likes using her powers. But she has enough control to only use them to scare people, instead of just flash-frying them. Or maybe she just doesn't have the power to do real damage. Her attack on the town seemed mostly like magician's flash powder. A big burst of short flame that doesn't really do anything but make a big show. She is aggressive certainly. She goes for the first first every time she felt threatened so far, instead of putting up her shield.

As far as the elder threatening Gavia and her and Alice's reactions... Both of them know that the old man is zero danger to Gavia. Essentially it's like a toddler threatening to beat her up and Gavia going 'oh no, won't you save me from the wrath of his tiny fist.'

And to answer the recurring theme of 'Why does Alice dismiss the reasonable fears of the townsfolk'. Because to her, they are not reasonable. They make as much sense as a kid worried about a monster in the closet. That doesn't make the child any less scared, and Alice could be more tactful about how she calmed the townsfolk about Gavia... But again, tact is not one of Alice's things. She is a 'Listen to me because I know more than you' person.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #227 on: 29 May 2015, 12:22 »

Starting at least with the disturbing glee with which she beat up Gavia, it's been clear that Alice is being characterized as Not A Nice Person. There's no reason to think that Jeph is endorsing her tactics and attitude.
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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #228 on: 29 May 2015, 16:08 »

This seems familiar.

Except I really don't get the feminism angle...
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #229 on: 29 May 2015, 18:54 »

If so, how do we square this circle with her nearly cooking those kids?
I don't think she was ever going to hurt the kids, I think she was just trying to scare them off.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #230 on: 29 May 2015, 20:13 »

After some reflection, I think I should add a bit to explain where I'm coming from personally in relation to this whole Jeb thing:

I've been that guy who makes an ass of himself or says something insensitive without thinking. More than once, in fact. I have trouble reading body language and subtext, and can be painfully blunt or obtuse. Subtlety is often lost on me. I could go more into why, but it's not really relevant. This has left me in a lot of situations where my own inept social skills or blindness to the obvious has made me do stupid things.

I've also gotten into a whole hell of a lot of trouble from the backlash of this. And while I don't want to blame the people I got in trouble with (Mostly, with a couple exceptions...) because I had, unintentionally or otherwise, provoked it, that doesn't mean that that I think it was a fair situation. Nine times out of ten like this, if anyone had just taken the time to explain that I was being an idiot, or what was going on, the problem would have been defused in a heartbeat, but instead I've frequently taken a lot of crap over genuine mistakes and misunderstandings. Because of this, as a kid I was (metaphorically) pushed around a lot by figures of authority who should have known better.

I empathize a lot with Jeb.

Meanwhile, Alice (who is supposedly a millenium old and knows everyone in town super well and is a wizard with social interaction,) can't give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #231 on: 29 May 2015, 20:32 »

Well, first of all, Alice being a 'wizard with social interaction' made me actually laugh out loud. Of all the things that can be said about here, that's about as opposite from the truth as can be. She's good at reading people, probably. But she absolutely sucks at dealing with them. Her interaction consist of her telling people what to do, generally. Again I say, we are not talking about an interaction of equals here. From Alice's perspective she is dealing with a bunch of children, essentially. She knows she's stronger, better and knows more than every single person in town. She expects people to just listen to her when she says something, because she's sure she knows better. And most people do, out of respect or fear... mostly a mix of both.

Her interaction with Jeb was as polite as that was going to get. He directly challenged her authority in front of others. She took him aside and quietly explained that she could crush him if she chose. And that she had things under control, and he should trust that. Was that the nicest way to go about it? No. But as has been said repeatedly, Alice is not a nice person. But essentially what she did was pull him aside and explain he was being an idiot. Which he was being. She could have just as easily smacked him into the ground the way she did with Gavia. She gave him every opportunity to listen to his friends, and when he didn't she took him aside and dealt with it privately and without violence, if not without the threat of violence.

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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #232 on: 29 May 2015, 23:06 »

Quote
Well, first of all, Alice being a 'wizard with social interaction' made me actually laugh out loud.
I misspoke there, my bad. Rather, she's supposedly a wizard (Or just really experienced or what have you) at understanding how people tick. Not social interaction necessarily, but she allegedly reads and understands people pretty well. (And was able to convince two men who hated each other to become best of friends, also.)

Quote
From Alice's perspective she is dealing with a bunch of children, essentially.
THIS IS WHAT MAKES HER ACTIONS SO TERRIBLE. She's talking to a child. Not even a particularly old or mature one. Both in terms of life experience and physical strength, it's like someone in their late thirties (Who exercises a lot) talking to a toddler.

Quote
But essentially what she did was pull him aside and explain he was being an idiot.
No. That is not a thing that happened. She did not explain anything, she said that she was smarter, stronger, and better than him and that he should shut up and obey. She gave no reason for why his complaint was invalid or wrong. She didn't explain a damned thing beyond that she was capable of beating the shit out of him.

Quote
She could have just as easily smacked him into the ground the way she did with Gavia. She gave him every opportunity to listen to his friends, and when he didn't she took him aside and dealt with it privately and without violence, if not without the threat of violence.
This is also not a thing that happened.
Gavia was an apples and oranges situation. For one, Gavia was already being extremely violent and for two, Gavia was armed with nanotech and is from an entirely different culture. That was still not a meeting of peers, but it didn't have the 'Adult threatening an unruly child' vibe to it.
With Jeb, she barely gave him one opportunity to back down, (Actually less of an opportunity than Gavia had. Gavia was given a direct offer to back down and talk about things reasonably. Jeb was given a vague comment about how Alice knew best.) Furthermore there WASN'Tan opportunity to listen to his friends. Go back and read the comic: By the time his friend warns him, it's too late.



My overall point is that Jeb never had a chance. His objection was a little obtuse and a his presentation a little abrasive, but mostly reasonable: Gavia DID set the town on fire with very little effort a couple weeks prior, causing a lot of damage. It'd be extremely easy for her to do it again if some kids started teasing her and she flipped out again. Alice gave no explanation for why Gavia wouldn't be a threat, she just expected blind faith and total obeisance. (Also, to those saying 'She knows him and it was probably the only way to deal with him'... That's incredibly stupid. You deal with him violently now, then he'll only ever respond to violent threats in the future. You try and explain and help deal with things rationally now, he won't need to be cowed later by threats of physical violence.) This doesn't just make Alice a 'Not nice person' to me, it turns her into a character just shy of being a straight villain.


Furthermore, this annoys me heavily because nearly all of my complaints here could have easily been solved if Jeph hadn't included the two panels at the end of Jeb's introductory comic, where Ardent asks about the Farm Implement. If those two panels had been used instead to give Alice a chance to try and respond reasonably, and for Jeb to ignore his friend's advice and get genuinely aggressive, and THEN we had Alice drag him away... Everything would suddenly work. Alice'd still have a small aggression issue, but she wouldn't be deplorable to me.





With all that said, I want to mention something totally unrelated: The April 9th Comic, 'Kids These Days'. In my opinion, this is the best Alice Grove panel currently available to the public. Not necessarily my favorite, but the best.

(http://www.alicegrove.com/post/115986771824/kids-these-days - Hyperlink for people who don't want to search for it.)

Simply put, I think it's the best because it's structured so damned well. The dialogue moves along the world and lore with important speculation that needs to happen, but by itself is a little dry. We also get to know a bit about nanotech and the world Ardent and Gavia came from. Simultaneously, though, the art and use of the comic style adds a second layer of action to everything we're seeing. The ending is funny, but the joke doesn't take precedence over the actions.
Not to mention, it moves along the plot, since this comic is the inciting incident for everything else that's happened since then. (Going to town, interacting with the locals, etc.)
No space is wasted. Every panel is efficient and well paced. The dialogue serves several purposes. The comic itself serves several purposes. It doesn't waste the update on a joke, it doesn't drag its feet, and it does in one update what most of Alice Grove takes two or three to accomplish.

It's not profoundly great, but it's so incredibly solid and the structure is really good.

In my opinion, while not every update should conform to a strict frame, if more Alice Grove updates were like this one, Alice Grove would be a better comic. In fact, if more plot-based webcomics were like this one, a lot of plot-based webcomics would be a lot better.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #233 on: 29 May 2015, 23:18 »

Quote
just shy of being a straight villain

Do we know she isn't?

She has done some Mary Worth things for the villagers, but that could be egotism or a community service sentence instead of a matter of good will.

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #234 on: 29 May 2015, 23:47 »

I don't think she's a villain, I think that she's just an old, somewhat grumpy old soul in a young body.  She's found a way to deal with the people of the world she lives in as an immortal (or practically immortal) being, and its worked well for her over the centuries.

Gavia and Ardent are a new wrinkle in her world and she's dealing with it the best way she can.  If she truly were a villain, I have no doubt she would have found a way to quietly rid herself of these two weeks ago (AG Time).
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #235 on: 30 May 2015, 06:15 »

I'm ok calling her an anti-hero.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #236 on: 30 May 2015, 06:42 »

I do suspect she wanted nothing to do with being in the position that she currently is in. Hence, her attitude.

Of course, that begs the question: how, exactly, did she end up where she is - and why?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #237 on: 30 May 2015, 11:42 »

Comparing her to the characters in QC, her temperament is closest to Beatrice Chatham's.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #238 on: 30 May 2015, 12:12 »

Comparing her to the characters in QC, her temperament is closest to Beatrice Chatham's.

And now the locals have twenty words for "pompous, condescending white woman."
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #239 on: 30 May 2015, 14:02 »

And some of them have only one word

"Lunch"
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #240 on: 30 May 2015, 15:12 »

I'm ok calling her an anti-hero.
That's fair, though most anti-heroes have some kind of draw to their personality to make them empathetic. Alice might have a tragic backstory or a character draw, but we're nine months in and I haven't heard a glimpse of it yet.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #241 on: 30 May 2015, 22:43 »

Would you argue that beyond being an unsympathetic character she's a badly portrayed one?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #242 on: 31 May 2015, 01:12 »

Quote
just shy of being a straight villain

Do we know she isn't?

She has done some Mary Worth things for the villagers, but that could be egotism or a community service sentence instead of a matter of good will.

SO MUCH THIS. I have wondered for a long time if she is going to be the villain of this story. I'm waiting for more information on her origins and motivations before making a final decision on that. Another of my theories is this is the story of Alice realising she's a horrible person and becoming nicer, so there is a chance we are supposed to be thinking Alice is a nasty patronising jerk right now.

Do the ends justify the means is possibly something Jeph is trying to make readers think about here. That town is very well protected and the villagers all respect Alice greatly (I didn't say like, that is a different thing). But Alice's methods of protecting and getting respect are questionable.

Really for me the most damning thing about Alice is how much people are afraid of her rather than anything she does. Jeb wasn't the first, and I note it wasn't until she explicitly stated she wanted the chance to prove her strength that he became afraid. She terrified the three demon hunting children, she managed to bring Jack to gibbering panic by changing her expression when he asked if she'd deal with Ardent if he turned out to be dangerous, and when a child asked if it was true she could turn out the sun their mother became afraid and dragged it away. To get that level of fear, you have to have done something rather than merely used words. It's possible everyone is afraid of her because she's done powerful things while protecting the villagers, but Alice's joy in beating up Gavia and obvious desire that Jeb would give her an excuse to be violent makes me consider it unlikely. Alice only gives people one chance.

You have no idea how much I want to hear the villagers talking about Alice when they think she is not there.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #243 on: 31 May 2015, 07:14 »

So far it doesn't seem like this comic has a villain. Then again, neither does QC.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #244 on: 31 May 2015, 08:33 »

I don't think the story really needs one. But if there is a villain, I don't think we've seen him/her/it yet. If I had to guess, I'd go with it being the Praeses that allowed Ardent and Gavia to beam down.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #245 on: 31 May 2015, 09:13 »

If the Praeses turn out to be villain-like, I would suggest that the are in a 'Lawful Evil' form. They are determined to do the right thing by the majority, even if that means treating individuals, their dreams and their wants like paper dolls to be thrown into the fire. When you've protected and effectively ruled the entire human race (apart from the primitives in The Habitat) for millennia, naturally you become a bit... callous.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #246 on: 31 May 2015, 09:34 »

Callous is a good word to describe Alice, actually. She protects the people of the town. But she's not nice in doing it and takes what she sees as the quickest and most effective route to it. If some people get hurt feelings along the way, what does she care?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #247 on: 31 May 2015, 09:58 »

Is lawful inherently better than neutral or chaotic? Or is it really just the evil/neutral/good that's used to determine how good a person is?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #248 on: 31 May 2015, 10:21 »

Is lawful inherently better than neutral or chaotic? Or is it really just the evil/neutral/good that's used to determine how good a person is?

Good-Neutral-Evil is the ethical spectrum - the attitude the character has to life and the rights of the individual.

Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic is the societal spectrum - the attitude the character has to order and organisation

Some extreme examples:
  • Emperor Palpatine - Lawful Evil
  • The Joker - Chaotic Evil
  • The Mask - Chaotic Neutral
  • Mr Freeze - Neutral Evil
  • The Spectre - Lawful Good
  • Plastic Man - Chaotic Good
  • The Batman - Lawful Neutral
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #249 on: 31 May 2015, 10:24 »

Well yeah, but my question is this. Is being lawful evil somehow "better" than being chaotic evil? Also wait, how is Batman not good?
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