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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)  (Read 23569 times)

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #200 on: 13 Aug 2015, 23:04 »

That's a lovely heartwarming end to the arc. I sort of thought that it would end with something like this. In the end, in the very end, Dora wanted her big brother back, just like Sven wanted his little sister back. What they needed was the courage to risk being hurt and to remember that there are things more important than pride.

Aaannnd... Jeph's been working on his hugs. This is still a bit stiff looking but it is definitely better-drawn and more natural looking than Dora and Tai's make-up hug from a few score strips back.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #201 on: 14 Aug 2015, 00:05 »

I should be getting the warm fuzzies from these two working on their problems and hugging things out.  Except I'm still hung up on why Sven was the bad guy here.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #202 on: 14 Aug 2015, 00:33 »

He's not. Hell, Dora acknowledged that she had to be a better sister, too.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #203 on: 14 Aug 2015, 02:07 »

I should be getting the warm fuzzies from these two working on their problems and hugging things out.  Except I'm still hung up on why Sven was the bad guy here.

I think what you're hung up too much is the thought of Dora being the voice of the author/the protagonist, and the protagonist being always right.

Dora and Sven are both characters in the same world. Dora thought she was right, she said she was right, we don't see Sven very often, but that doesn't mean that she was right.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #204 on: 14 Aug 2015, 05:06 »

Always best to return to the Dictum of Jeph: No one is 100 percent right, no one is 100 percent wrong.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #205 on: 14 Aug 2015, 05:07 »

Not even Jeph :parrot:
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #206 on: 14 Aug 2015, 05:11 »

Well, as the god, Jeph is 100% right even when he's 100% wrong.

It's good to be the king.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #207 on: 14 Aug 2015, 05:28 »

You'd think! It's very close but not quite 100%.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #209 on: 14 Aug 2015, 07:29 »

Possibly! But unlikely.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #210 on: 14 Aug 2015, 07:46 »

105%?
with a margin of error of ~5% give or take at least one standard deviation.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #211 on: 14 Aug 2015, 07:51 »

Do people talk the way Dora did in this strip? It seems to me to be an instance of telling, not showing.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #212 on: 14 Aug 2015, 07:57 »

Do people talk the way Dora did in this strip? It seems to me to be an instance of telling, not showing.

Sometimes conversations have to be explicit, I have had similar ones before at both ends of the statement.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #213 on: 14 Aug 2015, 08:01 »

Haircuts can be very serious business.



Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to return to Jusenkyō for further training.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #214 on: 14 Aug 2015, 08:36 »

105%?
with a margin of error of ~5% give or take at least one standard deviation.

If the max rating of truth is smaller than the actual maximum amount of truth, we can reach 105% of max rated truth. This is called truthiness. I believe it in my gut.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #215 on: 14 Aug 2015, 09:48 »

Well, as the god, Jeph is 100% right even when he's 100% wrong.

It's good to be the king.

He was talking about his characters. To go beyomd that is to place one's self in the position of the college lecturer who told Isaac Asimov that his having written the story didn't mean he knew what was in it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #216 on: 14 Aug 2015, 10:07 »

Is that a bad position to be in?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #217 on: 14 Aug 2015, 10:34 »

Well, as the god, Jeph is 100% right even when he's 100% wrong.

It's good to be the king.

He was talking about his characters. To go beyomd that is to place one's self in the position of the college lecturer who told Isaac Asimov that his having written the story didn't mean he knew what was in it.

That's what I said.

Even if Jeph were to be factually incorrect about the content of his Questionable activity (possible with 300 entries), he'd still be right if he declared that to be the way it is. Because he is the god.

The King. It is good to be him.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #218 on: 14 Aug 2015, 10:41 »

Well, no, not necessarily. He's the god within the comic itself. Not outside. Him saying stuff about it elsewhere doesn't make it so.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #219 on: 14 Aug 2015, 10:49 »

Well, no, not necessarily. He's the god within the comic itself. Not outside. Him saying stuff about it elsewhere doesn't make it so.

That's what he wants to you think.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #220 on: 14 Aug 2015, 11:19 »

Now that is an insight.

A lot of philosophers through history would instantly have diagnosed Sven's problem as pursuing and achieving pleasure instead of happiness.

Kinda feel sorry for Sven I mean his life seams pretty fucked/lonely.
Probably his only friend  or contact outside of his music stuff is Hannelore.
A string of empty meaningless sex that leaves you feeling hallow and....
The first time in a while (ever?) that he actually wanted a relationship it's an painfully situation that ends up blowing up in his(everyone) face.
Probably has vary little contact with his parents if they even acknowledge him at all(can not remember if he was even mentioned in passing).
And a insecure little sister that has decided that he is a toxic no good piece of shit that she wants nothing to do while he obviously cares greatly for her.
self hatred  isolation  depression 

still trying  :meh:
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #221 on: 14 Aug 2015, 11:52 »

Dora and Sven acknowledge that Sven was the parental favorite. However, there's been no data on his current relationship with them.

Beyond that, aside from being contemptuous of his job, Sven wasn't down on life. He and Wil are good friends, too. It wasn't until Faye that he began to question the value of meaningless sex.

I was until Hanners that he began to approach the idea of women as more than objects to manipulate, and even then he did it by giving metacommentary on how he would manipulate her (and indications said it would work). In fact his "creepy" comment to Hanners, recently, has a different context when you realize that Sven's skill at emotional manipulation is a topic of conversation between those two.

From Faye onwards, Sven is certainly having a slow meltdown. He certainly becomes the sad figure implied, by the end of it, but I suspect he still has Wil, and whatever off camera friends he has. (Probably not the intern, tho). I think he's got a long way to go on his woman problem. Not because he's shown anything, but because I don't think Jeph would have given him the man bun, if he weren't still in whipping boy territory.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #222 on: 14 Aug 2015, 15:45 »

Next week


Faye and Dora in the apartment talking


No, that is NOT a Tamarian reference dammit!!!!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #223 on: 14 Aug 2015, 16:04 »

Kugai, not speaking in Tamarian.  :-P
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #224 on: 14 Aug 2015, 16:25 »

:-D
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #225 on: 14 Aug 2015, 18:43 »

A lot of philosophers through history would instantly have diagnosed Sven's problem as pursuing and achieving pleasure instead of happiness.
At least one pointed out that pursuit itself leads to suffering. In my tradition, we would say that Sven has at last seen the hoofprints of the ox.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #226 on: 15 Aug 2015, 00:59 »

At first I thought Sven's apology was an insincere attempt to wriggle out of trouble, but in retrospect I think he's learned a little humility for the first time, and he really meant it. Of course it was expressed in wildly exaggerated terms because it's not a feeling he's used to having or talking about.
As for Dora, I'm not entirely surprised she's agreed to talk to Sven, because her decision to cut him off seemed out of the blue and unpremeditated. And then Sven's apology obviously did come across as genuinely heartfelt.

I wonder if Sven's ever hugged anyone outside of one of his seduction episodes?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #227 on: 15 Aug 2015, 01:22 »

Other than blood relatives.  At least Hanners that we know of.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #228 on: 15 Aug 2015, 11:20 »

Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #229 on: 15 Aug 2015, 11:36 »

No reason. That Dora declared him "toxic" says much more about her than about him.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #230 on: 15 Aug 2015, 13:38 »

Other than blood relatives.  At least Hanners that we know of.

Faye also, actually, which counts since it was before they started sleeping together, and it wasn't a ploy to get in her pants
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #231 on: 15 Aug 2015, 15:09 »

I don't think Sven is all that awful. However, Dora perceives him to have some bad tendencies(which he does) and that has mixed with sibling rivalry, envy, and her own perceived inadequacies. I think Sven realizes what caused all of it to boil over, and how to reduce the tension. He may be confused as hell about why he is a bad brother, but he is willing to try to be a better one for her. Because as the eldest, he may think that it's his place to admit fault to help her deal with her feelings. If he had not apologized there, at the onset, would Dora have admitted fault as well?  It's impossible to say, but I think it helped. Becoming a better person is a lot easier when someone is there, trying with you.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #232 on: 15 Aug 2015, 17:34 »

Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?

Did you just miss the part where Dora forgave him? Or is this one of those strawmen?

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #233 on: 15 Aug 2015, 18:09 »

The only one I know of that thought Sven was horrible and undeserving of forgiveness was Dora. And yet there she is. I also think part of the reason Sven jumped to the apology first was trained reflex. From what we've seen, if Dora is angry she will hold the grudge until the other person apologizes, even if she is in the wrong. It's part of the reason she and Marten broke up. Remember back when they had the fight because she was snooping on his computer for his porn, after Marten asked her not to. How he complained to Faye that he had to go apologize to Dora again, even though he wasn't the one who had done something wrong. Sven has had to live with that all Dora's life basically.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #234 on: 15 Aug 2015, 20:13 »

Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?

Did you just miss the part where Dora forgave him? Or is this one of those strawmen?

Have you missed how the comic has pretty much have had everyone be like "Yeah he's a piece of shit and we wouldn't blame you not forgiving him..But he is your brother" Even Dora attitude now is pretty much "You don't deserve this...but your family"

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #235 on: 15 Aug 2015, 22:00 »

Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?

Did you just miss the part where Dora forgave him? Or is this one of those strawmen?

Have you missed how the comic has pretty much have had everyone be like "Yeah he's a piece of shit and we wouldn't blame you not forgiving him..But he is your brother" Even Dora attitude now is pretty much "You don't deserve this...but your family"

We reading the same comic?

 I don't see what's happened as trying to whitewash Sven's shitty past behavior. More like he's aware he's fucked up, said he's sorry, and now he's actively trying to be a better dude. Hanners has seen it, that's why she tried to suggest they make amends, and Tai's seen enough of Dora's personal shittiness to know not everything happened exactly the way Dora makes it out to have been. Dora's part of the problem, too. She cut her brother out because he had feelings for a girl it's unclear he knew was in a relationship. How the fuck is that deserved. It's worth yelling at him to be more sensitive, but not cutting out completely.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #236 on: 15 Aug 2015, 23:08 »

What if the Genevieve incident was typical of his previous life? A few dozen situations like that could leave people near him unable or unwilling to see his good side. It's also possible that his good side has only come into being recently, long after Dora's formative years.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #237 on: 16 Aug 2015, 00:26 »

I want to point out, that a person doesn't have to be inherently toxic in and of themselves to have a toxic effect on people (or, at least, a rather negative one). Even if they haven't done something "omg horrible evil bastard" level, if they're causing a drain on your emotional wellbeing, it is perfectly natural to want to excise them from your life, either temporarily or permanently.

I think the separation was probably good for the both of them- have some space to get away from each other and figure shit out. A shock to the system for Sven to give him further incentive to be a better person (because the last incident with Faye was just... grotesque), and some breathing room for Dora to discharge some of the negative energies.

Now the proper healing can begin.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #238 on: 16 Aug 2015, 00:41 »

What if the Genevieve incident was typical of his previous life?

Honestly, I expect it was, but the past doesn't dictate the future. Every saint has a past and all that baloney. Hanners thinks he's changing for the better, we've seen him trying to do so, which is admittedly us knowing something Dora doesn't, but I'm a firm believer in people's ability to grow and change.

Maybe a break was necessary; I can get behind that. I just have issues with the idea that he's stuck as a shitty human forever and Dora needs to stop giving him chances 'just because their family.' Dude's a fuck-up, self-centered and thoughtless, but at least he's aware of it and trying to change.

I'm glad their speaking again, basically.

If you can't tell, the Dora/Sven sibling relationship hits home for me.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #239 on: 16 Aug 2015, 05:00 »

I'm just wondering who said Sven was undeserving of forgiveness. Was that a comment I missed?

All characters polled on the issue (Tai and Hannelore) have voted for forgiveness. Dora forgave him. Dora admitted she was in need of improvement, herself. If she didn't accept her responsibility as blatantly as Sven declared his, she still accepted it, as her entire speech is a refutation of her previous behavior in the issue. I call that good writing, as it would be rather hollow to have her use the same tone and self-criticism that Sven did.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #240 on: 16 Aug 2015, 05:56 »

I'm just wondering who said Sven was undeserving of forgiveness. Was that a comment I missed?

I don't think that anyone said it. I think that people are taking Dora's attitude, turning it up to eleven and  then assuming that it is Jeph's attitude towards the character as well as the orthodoxy amongst QC fans in general. In other words, they are spending time denouncing a position that only exists in their own imaginations.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #241 on: 16 Aug 2015, 12:11 »

I'm just wondering who said Sven was undeserving of forgiveness. Was that a comment I missed?


I was getting that vibe from Alphawolf55's comment, that's where a lot of the irritation in my last few responses came from, but maybe I was reading it in a different tone than you were. Reading back, it looks very possible.
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AlsoPersonifyingChaos

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #242 on: 16 Aug 2015, 14:20 »

I want to point out, that a person doesn't have to be inherently toxic in and of themselves to have a toxic effect on people (or, at least, a rather negative one). Even if they haven't done something "omg horrible evil bastard" level, if they're causing a drain on your emotional wellbeing, it is perfectly natural to want to excise them from your life, either temporarily or permanently.
<snip>

Absolutely. I've been watching "Doc Martin" lately. For anyone who hasn't seen it, he's ethical, dedicated, brilliant, and an emotional bull in a china shop. I've lost track of how many times his love interest has broken up with him, and she's been right every time because he was causing damage.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #243 on: 16 Aug 2015, 18:28 »

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chaospersonified

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #244 on: 16 Aug 2015, 21:25 »

Ironically enough, bulls are quite nimble in china shops.

*squints*
*reads*
*shrugs*
Seems legit.
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AlsoPersonifyingChaos

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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #245 on: 16 Aug 2015, 21:26 »

Sven, once again, four words: Pioneer Valley Goth Country.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3021 to 3025 (10 to 14 August 2015)
« Reply #246 on: 17 Aug 2015, 11:56 »

I know those words but that phrase makes no sense.
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