Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 01 Dec 2021, 02:14
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down

Author Topic: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis  (Read 28364 times)

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

*** HERE BE SPOILERS ***

There are a ton of people who obviously have seen The Force Awakens and want to talk about it (as do I!), but are sensitive to spoiling the experience of those who haven't seen it, and so bury their posts in that other Star Wars thread in spoiler tags.

"Why not have a dedicated spoiler thread," I thought. I initially thought about just suggesting this, but I just decided to be bold, run the flag up the pole, and see who salutes.

If you think it's a good idea, please post away.

*** HERE BE SPOILERS ***
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

Just to kick things off... it feels like every single person I've discussed the movie with thinks that Luke is Rey's parents.

I personally feel, mainly because the Luke theory is SO obvious, that her parents are Jedi sensitives we haven't yet met, who trained with Luke, and were killed by the Knights of Ren, possibly even Kylo himself.

If you have another theory, I'd love to hear it!
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7,610
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!

I think that the reason most fans assume Rey is Luke's daughter is because the whole franchise hangs on the chronicles, misadventures and mis-steps of the Skywalker family as well as how these affect the wider galaxy. Having a central Force-sensitive character who isn't associated with the family in some way would be very very odd and would definitely break the running themes of the story.

That said, I could see Rey being something weird and contrived.

Maybe, during his exile on Tatooine, Obi-Wan had an affair with a local girl and Rey is her grand-daughter. By some odd fluke of genetics, the child wasn't Force-sensitive but Rey was. When Ben went postal and the First Order made it clear it was following the Emperor's policy of genocide of Force-sensitives, her parents dumped her on Jakku. Maybe they weren't very nice parents to start with or maybe, in the end, they fooled themselves that dumping her to live or die on a sandheap junkyard planet was somehow 'protecting' her.

FWIW, though, the franchise has always been Skywalker-centric from its earliest conception phase. IF Rey is not a Skywalker, it will be because Ben Solo is ultimately to be redeemed via a star-crossed romance with Rey. I can't see the sequel trilogy ending without a current-generation Skywalker somehow being the hero of the hour.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Neko_Ali


As far as we know, which admittedly isn't very far, Force sensitivity isn't usually an inherited trait. Our sample size is to small to say for sure though, and a lot of people are hesitant to accept the explanations Uncle George gave us during the prequel movies about the Force. Generally though it seems frowned upon in the Jedi Order for Jedi to form personal attachments with other people, including marriage and children. New padawan are picked up by testing or observing children to find those who are Force sensitive. All of which is a terrible method really, but would indicate that you can't really tell who might have the gift. So running through family lines is the exception, rather than a rule.

The Skywalker family seems to be that exception, at least for now. Anakin, his children and now his grandson at least have all been very strong with the Force. And we have Rey, who seems if not stronger, at least the Force comes more naturally to her than any of the others. She could well be of the line of Skywalker, from either Luke or Leia. But is so, why did nobody mention it to her? Why was she abandoned on Jakku as a child, the same thing that happened to Luke and Leia. You would think they would resist the idea. And why hide one Skywalker heir, but not the other? She's too old for it to have happened because of the massacre of Luke's Jedi school.

One possible explanation would be she's a descendant of a Republic Jedi, one who survived Order 66. She could have been left behind by her parent(s) as they were trying to flee the Empire or bounty hunters. Rey seems of the thought that whoever left her on Jakku was coming back for her, even many years later. Which leads me to think she wasn't cruelly abandoned or sold as a slave. She most likely would have been born after death of the Emperor and the fracturing of the Empire though. So for this theory to work, either Rey's parents/guardians didn't know about it.. which seems unlikely. Or there were people (First Order? Snoke? Remnants of the Inquisitors or another ex-Imperial faction?) who were still hunting Jedi during that time frame, two generations after Order 66.

Alternately her parents may have not been related to the Jedi at all. They could have been people who just abandoned Rey, or left her with family friends to go do something and were never able to return. She could be unrelated to any existing character and just unusually strong in the Force. Of all of the explanations, I would like to see this the most, and I expect it to happen the least. This is Star Wars, they like everything to relate somehow. Having Rey and Kylo somehow related and having to fight against each other is just what they do.

And finally, another thing to keep in mind is that Rey was drawn to Luke/Anakin's old saber in the cantina. When she touched it, she received force flashbacks and heard the voices of both old and young Obi-wan and Yoda. And supposedly Ewan McGregor is signed on to make an appearance in another episode. My money is that she's a secret Skywalker heir, who's mother had a relationship with Luke that ended and he wasn't aware she had a child afterwards. Or that she's related somehow to Obi-Wan.
Logged

Edguy

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
  • Takin' care of business!
    • My facebook page

I think that the reason most fans assume Rey is Luke's daughter is because the whole franchise hangs on the chronicles, misadventures and mis-steps of the Skywalker family as well as how these affect the wider galaxy.

Well, also the fact that the franchise enjoys convenient explanations and solutions.


One thing tho, about Ray's parents, is that they've set it up as a big reveal now. If it turn out she was just left by some random, unimportant parents, that would feel pretty much like a letdown at this point.
Logged
I dunno..

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.

Meh, I don't want Rey to be a skywalker. Kylo is enough.

Also, people keep saying that Rey is holding Luke's hand in the flashback where she is abandoned. I just rewatched the movie, she is holding a large alien hand, probably the hand of the guy who runs that trading post.
Logged

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

One thing tho, about Ray's parents, is that they've set it up as a big reveal now. If it turn out she was just left by some random, unimportant parents, that would feel pretty much like a letdown at this point.

On the other hand, if it turns out she was left by Luke, as practically everyone on the planet is predicting, that would hardly be a "big reveal."

I'll take what's behind door #3, thanks. It won't be Luke, but that doesn't have to mean it's someone unimportant.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

SubaruStephen

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,317

My theory is that either that Luke never had any kids, OR... Kylo Ren killed them along with all the other students Luke was teaching.


And Ray being the youngest student (or maybe the child of two older students) was either spared by Kylo Ren or hid in the Millennium Falcon to escape the slaughter (and was hiding in the ship until it got stolen and left on Jakku)
Logged
A "buttload" is an actual measurement, next time someone tells you that they need a buttload of something, tell them 126 gallons might be a bit too much.

Neko_Ali


One thing tho, about Ray's parents, is that they've set it up as a big reveal now. If it turn out she was just left by some random, unimportant parents, that would feel pretty much like a letdown at this point.

On the other hand, if it turns out she was left by Luke, as practically everyone on the planet is predicting, that would hardly be a "big reveal."

I'll take what's behind door #3, thanks. It won't be Luke, but that doesn't have to mean it's someone unimportant.

If JJ Abrams was directing the second part of this trilogy, I would say Rey being Luke's daughter would be the 'big reveal' for that one. He is kind of known for putting these 'big secrets' in his movies that he mentions are there, but refused to talk about. And universally they have been no surprise to anyone. For Force Awakens it was I guess Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son. Something people have been guessing since the trailers first started appearing. Though most people guessed that Rey and Ren were going to be twins.
Logged

Detachable Felix

  • Kind of a jerk, I guess?
  • Global Moderator
  • Scrabble hacker
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,485
  • I'm gonna keep you in love with me for a while

I'm gonna throw in a curve ball and say she's a descendant of Obi Wan. It would explain why the British accent, if anything :P
Logged
This is Australia, mate. We don't do subtlety.
~She/Her/They/Them~

Gladstone

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 946

Big reveal: Rey is actually KHAN!

Honestly, I hope that Rey is just a random person with no connection to the original cast.  It's enough that Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is Vader's grandson; making Rey a lost Solo--or a surprise Skywalker--just makes the galaxy too small...and we've already seen how small Abrams thinks it is.

Saw it again yesterday, and I'm still annoyed by the way Starkiller Base worked.  At least, just the way the laser seemed to crawl through ordinary space to hit the Hosnian System, with its progress and effect both visible from Maz Kanata's planet in (presumably) an entirely different system.  C'mon, J. J., space is NOT that goddamn small.  It would've been easy to have the weapon fire, show the beam tunneling through hyperspace (and how spectacular would an image like THAT be?), maybe see some weird ripple in realspace visible from various planets along its path, and have a computer console light up in alarm on that ship Finn was about to leave in--and he realizes the source of the hyperspace anomaly as coming from Starkiller Base, which makes him change his mind and run back to the castle to look for Han and Rey.  Maybe have someone shout something about the HoloNet (EU nod!) reporting that the Hosnian system being destroyed.  Heck, anything's better than being able to see a planet blow up from an entirely different planet somewhere else entirely. 

Sorry, rant over.  I have minor nitpicks about the movie, but that's the thing that bothers me the most.  Abrams really has no sense of scale.

Other minor nitpick related to something I predicted about the movie back in spring when the first full-length trailer came out:

Some thoughts I had while watching the trailer for the umpteenth time:

1. According to the news that came out of the Star Wars Celebration panels, the desert planet, Jakku, is the sight of an old battle between the Empire and the Rebels/New Republic, and is littered with wrecked ships as a result.
2. Daisy Ridley's character is a scavenger on Jakku.
3. The two clips we see of the Millennium Falcon in the original teaser and the official trailer also show it on Jakku, engaged  in a dogfight with TIE fighters and fleeing from a single fighter, respectively.
4. The official trailer also shows Daisy and John Boyega's characters running from a TIE fighter attack.
5. The clip of the Falcon shows it flying into the massive engines of a crashed ship--something a pilot, even one as daring as Han Solo, wouldn't be reckless enough to do (especially with a ship the size of the Falcon) unless he was familiar enough with the lay of the land--as Daisy is.
6. The two interior shots of the Falcon show BB-8 peeking around a door and, later, Han commenting to Chewbacca that they're "home."

So it's probably safe to assume that the Falcon was damaged in the Battle of Jakku and abandoned, and was later found by Daisy's character, who managed to fix it up and get it in working condition (as much as can be expected) by the time John Boyega's character comes along and they're forced to flee from the Imperial forces that are chasing after him--meaning Han and Chewie don't step foot on the ship until much later in the movie.

That's probably been obvious to everyone else from the beginning, but hey, I thought it was a cool idea.  I bet I'm right, too.  And how great would it be to see Daisy's character scrounging for parts on Jakku, then walking into a makeshift spaceship hanger where an aged and battered, but still beautiful, Millennium Falcon is sitting there waiting for action?

Hey, I was kinda right!  Still wish we had seen the Falcon before Rey decided to steal it, even briefly--either have her working on it in secret, or, more in keeping with her status as an indentured scavenger in the movie, fixing it up for that junk trader in exchange for food.  Even a throwaway line would've worked:

Unkar Plutt: "For these things you brought me, I'll give you...one half-portion."
Rey: "Last week they were a half-portion each!"
UP: "That was before you damaged that YT-1300 you were supposed to fix."
Rey: "You've added so many extra parts, it can't be fixed."
UP: "Hmph.  What about the droid?"
Rey: "What about him?"
UP: "I'll pay you for him...sixty portions."

Something as small as that to establish its presence instead of having it just show up out of the blue would've been cool, but it's not a big deal.
« Last Edit: 26 Dec 2015, 13:56 by Gladstone »
Logged
You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

I was going to respond to the rest, but this shipping nonsense makes me ill.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Gladstone

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 946

Yeah, sorry, got a bit carried away.  Will remove.
Logged
You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

Thank you! I appreciate that.

I actually liked the thing where the Falcon kind of appeared "out of the blue". It allowed for some small amount of surprise even though we knew it was going to turn up.

I get what you're saying about the crawling laser thing, but to be honest I was kind of annoyed that there was a death star at all. Of all the repeted elements of the film, that was the one that kind of bugged me. I want to write in and say "PLEASE NO MORE DEATH STARS." Surely by now, the empire/first order would have figured out that they're on a losing strategy building death stars with increasingly-easy-to-blow-up critically vulnerable spots.

As for Rey, I would love it if her parents were unconnected to the original cast. For the reasons you've listed and more. The whole thing with r2-d2 being involved in the prequels and c3po being built by anakin for no obvious reason etc etc etc. Enough already.

I'm going for a second viewing later today! I really want to watch Rey's visions closely this time. I couldn't really take it all in first time round.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Gladstone

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 946

I actually liked the thing where the Falcon kind of appeared "out of the blue". It allowed for some small amount of surprise even though we knew it was going to turn up.

I get what you're saying, but I also like the idea of Rey walking into a starship hanger to reveal the Falcon and doing a bit of repair work as part of her daily routine.  Less of a surprise, sure, and maybe it would've slowed the beginning of the movie down a bit, but establishing her character as having a connection to the Falcon would've been nice.  Either way, I'm sure most fans were expecting Han and Chewie to still have it in this movie, so I'm glad the filmmakers decided to mix things up and separate them from the ship at first.

Quote
I get what you're saying about the crawling laser thing, but to be honest I was kind of annoyed that there was a death star at all. Of all the repeted elements of the film, that was the one that kind of bugged me. I want to write in and say "PLEASE NO MORE DEATH STARS." Surely by now, the empire/first order would have figured out that they're on a losing strategy building death stars with increasingly-easy-to-blow-up critically vulnerable spots.

Oh, I agree.  The Same-Superweapon-As-Last-Time-Only-BIGGER! thing is getting a bit old.  The folks at Lucasfilm couldn't think of a threat that didn't involve a Big Scary Gun this time?  I liked Han's nonchalance about it--"So it's bigger.  Can we blow it up?"--and I liked that the film made the attack on the base more about the characters than the starship battle this time (especially the Finn vs. Ren and Rey vs. Ren saber battles--and how great were those duels?  Better than any of that choreographed shit from the Prequels), but I really, really, REALLY hope they don't try to introduce a Starkiller II for Episode IX...
« Last Edit: 26 Dec 2015, 14:47 by Gladstone »
Logged
You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

YES, the duels were awesome. The reason the duel in the Empire Strikes Back was so gripping was not the choreography, it was the emotional context. I'm very glad that we seem to be getting back to that and away from the acrobatics.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Pilchard123

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,076
  • I always name them Bitey.

The duels were good, but I was expecting someone to declare that they had 'the high ground'.
Logged
Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

Edguy

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
  • Takin' care of business!
    • My facebook page

I'm gonna throw in a curve ball and say she's a descendant of Obi Wan. It would explain why the British accent, if anything :P

TIL Obi Wan is Britsh :^)
Logged
I dunno..

LeeC

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,911
  • Be excellent to each other, party on Dudes!

Kylo Ren's Emo Teenager Twitter account.

Logged
You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!



Btw, why didn't anyone link this thread in the other one? I only just found it :roll:
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

de_la_Nae

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,002
  • but will you understand

Yes, the hand in Rey's flashback is Plutt's; his voice too.

Heavy implication from Ren's mental interrogation of Rey that she dreams of a planet that is probably the one Luke's hiding on.

Calling it now: Rey is Snoke's daughter.

Also while I'm wildly calling things, Finn is Luke's son.

I need another viewing to be sure, but I get the impression that Luke left the missing map piece with the old guy, not that he found it.

Still a big question as to what that damned map is ACTUALLY supposed to be to; remember, the Order scavenged most of it from the old Imperial records, and those sure as hell weren't pointing to Luke.

Where's Lando?

Want more Phasma, though she's probably pretty dead.

But WHO is the old guy in the beginning?

Pretty sure both Finn's duels start the same.

Rey better kick Luke's ass.
Poe/Finn, a girl can dream damnit.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!

Puffin for life.

Also, no way Phasma's dead.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Gladstone

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 946

Hey!  We're not allowed to discuss our favorite ships!

Although Puffin is practically canon by now, so I think that's okay.

(Seriously, Finn and Poe are the Han and Leia of this trilogy, so it has to happen.)

Pretty sure Snoke isn't human.  I'd almost guess Muun, which IIRC is the species Darth Plagueis belonged to, but I doubt they would bring back a character mentioned in one scene in Return of the Sith as the main villain.  Most people wouldn't remember him.

Phasma definitely isn't dead.  Gwendoline Christie and Lupita Nyong'o were both tragically underused, so I hope both get to come back--Lupita as a different, non-CGI character, though.  Phasma would be a good recurring minor villain, one who keeps on Finn's trail throughout the rest of the trilogy, although I don't think they were given enough interaction in TFA.  I would've liked a short scene in the beginning, after the Star Destroyer came into view (and how great was that shot, keeping with the opening shots of each film in the original trilogy but doing something different with it), but before the raid on Jakku, just a short clip of Phasma preparing the troops for the assault, pointing out to trooper FN-2187 that with his high marks she expected great things from his first mission, which would've contrasted nicely with the dressing-down she gave him after his return to the ship in shock.  But by now the tiny scenes I would've added to the movie for character development would've brought the story to a crawl, so it's probably a good thing I had no part in making this film.

And I don't think Lor San Tekka is meant to be important.  He just had the map, gave it to Poe, died, won't be brought up again.
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2015, 19:17 by Gladstone »
Logged
You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

de_la_Nae

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,002
  • but will you understand

I'm not wrong, he didn't have a name spoken in the theatrical cut, right? Anyway, I'd sort of assumed that he was supposed to be a minor character from the Middle Trilogy, but I suppose not.

Dollars to donuts that it'll come up later, though. IF they bring up how Maz got the saber, which was presumably lost with Luke's hand on Bespin.

When Finn was introduced on the battlefield, I thought for a strong moment that he was going to be a recurring antagonist: the Blood-stained Stormtrooper, hunting Poe Dameron relentlessly through the trilogy.

I'm definitely not unhappy with Finn, but part of me wants that still.

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7,610
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!

Re.: Phasma
The Star Wars franchise has a long history of massively building up and hyping characters that turn out to be non-speaking background extras who appear, at most, in one scene for a matter of a few seconds. Yet, for some reason, Lucasfilm considered them quite important with plenty of pre-release build-up. Previous examples include Dengar and Aurra Sing.

Phasma falls into the same stereotype, although, atypically, she has spoken lines in the film. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we never see her again but that she retains high status in TFA merchandising and other spin-offs.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

LeeC

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,911
  • Be excellent to each other, party on Dudes!
Logged
You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Neko_Ali


I don't think Captain Phasma is dead, or just a throw away character. I get the feeling that she's going to be the Boba Fett of this trilogy. A barely used but wildly popular character. Unfortunately, I think that Disney is trying to MAKE her that character, which could blow up in their faces. They cast currently popular actress in the role. She's been a big part of both the marketing and merchandising for the movie. She wears a visually distinct uniform among a group of characters who's defining characteristic is being faceless, interchangeable mooks. She interacted several times with other main characters, and her eventual fate was left undetermined. While I felt she was very underused in this movie, and the way she just painfully went along with Finn and Han after being easily captured was pathetic. But it could all set up for a big arc of a minor recurring villain looking for revenge/redemption.

Lor San Tekka I don't think we'll ever really find out who he was. A friend of the Skywalker/Solo family would be my guess. Someone entrusted with the final piece of the location to the map where Luke was going to be. As a guess, I'd say he's an ex-Imperial or member of the old Rebel Alliance who had access to Imperial records. He stole that map fragment, and offered the information to Luke as a place to go, or maybe because something important was there. Luke left him and R2 with instructions to turn the info over to his family when the time was right and he was needed again, or some such. All of what happened with the timing was to convenient to be coincidence. I think Luke forsaw this. Which is why in the end he didn't look surprised when Rey showed up with his old lightsaber.
Logged

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

Lor San Tekka I don't think we'll ever really find out who he was. A friend of the Skywalker/Solo family would be my guess. Someone entrusted with the final piece of the location to the map where Luke was going to be. As a guess, I'd say he's an ex-Imperial or member of the old Rebel Alliance who had access to Imperial records. He stole that map fragment, and offered the information to Luke as a place to go, or maybe because something important was there. Luke left him and R2 with instructions to turn the info over to his family when the time was right and he was needed again, or some such. All of what happened with the timing was to convenient to be coincidence. I think Luke forsaw this. Which is why in the end he didn't look surprised when Rey showed up with his old lightsaber.

It was a jedi temple of some kind, wasn't it?

P.S. It seems Captain Phasma will be back: http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Episode-8-Feature-Whole-Lot-More-One-Side-Character-101547.html
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2015, 19:57 by Tova »
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,182
  • Fair warning, an avatar change is coming
    • Do They Have To Use Drums?

So, I'm not sure I can properly sew together the thoughts I've had about the film.

I watched it with my girlfriend, who detests Harrison Ford, so she left pretty happy.

I love the new characters. Slightly archetypal, yes, but entertaining nonetheless. I don't know the actor who played Poe very well but I was pleased to see him nonetheless. Just enough recognition for me to go 'oh it's that guy!'

But I'll say this much. I wanted more Luke. Mark Hamill got second to top billing for that shit. However, his reveal at the end, that moment, that was a real shivers-down-spine thing. And he looks fucking BAD. ASS. with his hood and grey long hair and beard and shit. I really don't want him getting killed off as well.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!

Does she hate Harrison Ford as a person or an actor?

Re: Oscar Isaac (Poe), I've seen him in a few things, but I only recently realized I first saw him in Drive of all things.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7,610
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!

George Lucas has strongly criticised The Force Awakens as being 'retro', unoriginal and derivative, noting that it rehashes many of the things that he dislikes about the original trilogy. He has attacked it as a 'fan movie' and accused Disney of treating 'his children' (the Star Wars franchise) as 'white slaves'. He has subsequently apologised for that remark and has insisted that he likes The Force Awakens.

In the interview, he noted that his involvement in The Force Awakens ended when he realised that Disney were not receptive to his artistic and story ideas. It is obvious that this hurt him deeply and he describes it as being like 'a break-up' with the films being the children lost to the other spouse's custody.

Given how artistically rubbish Lucasfilm's most recent works were before the sale, I'm not surprised that Disney refused to let Lucas have too much input in the new Star Wars films. Lucas himself actually acknowledged the likely cause in the original interview where he acknowledged that his increasingly 'experimental' film-making ideas were not commercially viable. That said, it is clear that he really doesn't really have any liking for what the viewing public, including the very audience that made him rich, want from Star Wars. He considers the lacklustre prequel trilogy as high art and the blockbuster original trilogy as highly flawed.

So, yeah, Disney were probably right to cut him out; he had nothing useful to contribute. He's made his lack of understanding and dislike of what the fan-base wanted pretty clear. For all their (near innumerable) faults as a corporation, Disney at least know how to make a film that the fans want to see.

I'd love to read the threatening letter that Disney's lawyers sent to him to get him to U-turn so totally within four hours of the original interview being broadcast though! :-D


[edit]
Fixed a mass of typos and tagging errors
« Last Edit: 01 Jan 2016, 01:09 by BenRG »
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

George Lucas has strongly criticised The Force Awakens as being 'retro', unoriginal and derivative, noting that it rehashes many of the things that he dislikes about the original trilogy.

It doesn't suprise me to learn that he apparently dislikes all the elements of the original trilogy that its fans loved.

I watched it with my girlfriend, who detests Harrison Ford, so she left pretty happy.

Is she happy because Ford won't be in future Star Wars films? That's the only interpretation I can think of that makes any sense.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Neko_Ali


You see.. I don't see what he considers so fantastic about the prequels. I love Star Wars. I mean love it. It's one of my most favorite franchise ever, if not the top. And I will be the first to admit that it is far from high art. It's all highly derivative from other sources, pretty cheesy, often uses scale to the absurd and has plot holes big enough to drive a star destroyer through.. but I love it. The prequels... while I don't hate on them the way some fans do are not as good as 4-6 in my eyes. A big part of it was that some of the actors were just terrible and gave flat performances. And there was no chemistry between Anakin and Padme, even though the story kept insisting their was. And let us please get away from the creepiness of an 8 year old and 16 year old falling in love at first sight and flirting badly?

The writing though was often bad.. awkward and not making much sense. The times the movies are best is when the action scenes are happening. And at their worst when they are talking about trade federations and sand... So to me the best parts of the prequels are when it calls back to the original three... I guess Lucas wanted to do a political intrigue movie instead? George may have created the franchise that I love so much, but it's clear it was a fluke on his part, and if he were to do it now I wouldn't give it a second glance. So I'm glad his hands are off Star Wars at this point. With Rebels and Force Awakens I think that Star Wars is in good hands with Disney. If nothing else, they know what the fans enjoy about the setting. And it's not midichlorians and trade franchise disputes with slapstick robots.
Logged

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,182
  • Fair warning, an avatar change is coming
    • Do They Have To Use Drums?

Is she happy because Ford won't be in future Star Wars films? That's the only interpretation I can think of that makes any sense.

Precisely so.

Gladstone

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 946

Lucas apparently presented Disney with a treatment for his own vision of the sequel trilogy when they bought Lucasfilm, but they apparently scrapped it and went with their own ideas.  Which leads to the questions:

1. What was Lucas's story about?
2. And why the hell didn't he make them himself, if his ideas were (supposedly) so much better?

A few years ago, before the new trilogy was announced, I wondered why Lucas didn't just remake Episodes IV-VI entirely.  After all, his complaint about the original trilogy was that the special effects he wanted to use weren't possible at the time, hence all his tweaking with the films since, but there's only so many edits you can make to an existing film before it just looks terrible (see: Jabba the Hutt in A New Hope), so if he really wanted to have a saga he could be proud of, he should just start over and do it his way.  And leave the original stuff for us undeserving fans.

Looking back now, I'm glad he doesn't have that option anymore.
Logged
You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

Kugai

  • CIA Handler of Miss Melody Powers
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,503
  • Crazy Kiwi Shoujo-Ai Fan
    • My Homepage

Lucas lost credibility with the Prequels and, as far as I'm concerned, has lost all right to criticise what Abrams has done, and I'm not really a big fan of JarJar Abrams anyway considering what he did to Trek.
Logged
James The Kugai 

You can never have too much Coffee.

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

George may have created the franchise that I love so much, but it's clear it was a fluke on his part, and if he were to do it now I wouldn't give it a second glance.

I can clearly recall the precise moment when I made this very realisation.

I had just finished watching Empire Strikes Back special edition... and was feeling a bit aggrieved by the changes Lucas made, when I decided to watch some of the bonus material. There was an interview with George Lucas, and they were discussing the changes that they made to the Wampa scene in the cave. I had enjoyed that scene in the past, because Luke is hanging there in the ice and it is clear that there is some ... creature ... that could devour him at any moment, but you don't get to see it, only hear it.

So I was interested to hear what he said about this scene. I don't recall exactly, so I'll have to paraphrase, but he basically said: "I know that it is technically better fillm making the way it was originally shot, but I really wanted to see the wampa."

Somehow, he knew the original was better, but wanted to change it anyway?

The conclusion I came to at the time was that George Lucas was a successful director only by luck, but since then I've decided that he simply is a better director when working with technological and editorial constraints that force him to be truly creative.

Is she happy because Ford won't be in future Star Wars films? That's the only interpretation I can think of that makes any sense.

Precisely so.

How anyone could possibly enjoy Star Wars in spite of hating Harrison Ford when he is one of the major reasons for the films' success is intriguing.

Lucas lost credibility with the Prequels and, as far as I'm concerned, has lost all right to criticise what Abrams has done, and I'm not really a big fan of JarJar Abrams anyway considering what he did to Trek.

I am not a Trek fan at all, so I didn't approach Star Wars with any Abrams baggage, for lack of a better word. I get the impression that some people's impressions of the film have been a bit coloured by their reaction to what he's done in the past.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,182
  • Fair warning, an avatar change is coming
    • Do They Have To Use Drums?

She largely prefers the prequels to the originals. She finds Solo as a character irritating also, because of his cavalier attitude.

Also, another thing I loved - the insanely random cameo from the two stars of the Raid movies, which are two of my all-time favourite films.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!

She largely prefers the prequels to the originals.
Obligatory "what do you see in her?" :p
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,182
  • Fair warning, an avatar change is coming
    • Do They Have To Use Drums?

I and III are underrated.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!

This is true, and I'd put III over VI, but over Empire?
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330

Re: all the discussion about Phasma -

Because Finn was unconscious at the end of the movie, that their storylines are going to intertwine again. Part of me has a feeling he's going to be a little confused when he wakes up and all that stormtrooper brainwashing might come back OR that she's just going to be like Boba Fett and just have an obsession with finding Finn and correcting his beahvior.

A lot of this movie, while awesome, was based in properly introducing the characters and left a lot of questions unanswered. It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor. "Where's Luke?! Oh hi kids, you do some stuff. Oh hey, we found Luke."
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor.

Welcome to Star Wars. You should try the original trilogy too, it's cool.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Pilchard123

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,076
  • I always name them Bitey.

Re: all the discussion about Phasma -

Because Finn was unconscious at the end of the movie, that their storylines are going to intertwine again. Part of me has a feeling he's going to be a little confused when he wakes up and all that stormtrooper brainwashing might come back OR that she's just going to be like Boba Fett and just have an obsession with finding Finn and correcting his beahvior.

A lot of this movie, while awesome, was based in properly introducing the characters and left a lot of questions unanswered. It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor. "Where's Luke?! Oh hi kids, you do some stuff. Oh hey, we found Luke."

I don't know if I've already said it, but it felt like this one was mostly a set-up for the next (at least) two.
Logged
Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!

If Kylo Ren was that fucking powerful while not fully trained, I'm definitely excited about seeing what his ultimate limits are.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330

I don't know if I've already said it, but it felt like this one was mostly a set-up for the next (at least) two.

I definitely agree. I'm happy with the movie, don't get me wrong, but I'm tired of seeing entire movies that are set ups for other movies. You can set up things while also telling a good story.

It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor.

Welcome to Star Wars. You should try the original trilogy too, it's cool.

I've seen them! Multiple times! Thank you for your useless comment! :roll:
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,093
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC

Welcome to sarcasm! I can dish out as much as you like.

You're welcome.
Logged
Beafterfore the carved elephant.

LeeC

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,911
  • Be excellent to each other, party on Dudes!
Logged
You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,452
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!

"Pretty sneaky, sis!"
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

sitnspin

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,063
  • Amoral lust machine

How do you aim a weapon made out of a planet? Do you just wait until it rotates to the position you want? And that doesn't take into account the fact that space is three dimensional. What about the z-axis?

[Edit]
Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.
Logged
I'm a simple girl, all I want from life is to drink the blood of my enemies from their bleached hollowed skulls.
@syleegrrl
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up