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Author Topic: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis  (Read 28435 times)

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It was that ol' standby  THE PLOT DEVICE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjpm79BNB0c
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Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.

I read somewhere that they made a conscious policy not to show the Death Star using its hyperdrive as it would disrupt viewers' sense that it is moon-sized. Apparently, we have an instinct that big=slow and showing The Magic 8-Ball O' Doom going to lightspeed breaks the illusion of scale.
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Ironically, this destroys the sense of galactic scale and makes the fictional universe feel smaller than it should.
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That might be intentional to make the coincidences more palatable. Also I think it all takes place in a single galaxy.
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BenRG

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That might be intentional to make the coincidences more palatable. Also I think it all takes place in a single galaxy.

It never ceases to amaze me just how fast hyperdrive is. The Millennium Falcon (which, admittedly, manages the upper end of FTL velocities, in-universe) goes from Tattooine in the Outer Rim to a core system (a distance of tens of thousands of light years) in a matter of a few hours at best. Even a lumbering giant like the Death Star 1 manages the flight from Alderaan to Yavin so quickly that the Rebels only have a few hours at best lead time to prepare their counter-attack before it arrives in-system.

No wonder so many Warsies rag Trekkers off about their "snails' pace" warp drive! :wink:

Seriously, almost everything about how Starkiller was presented in The Force Awakens was messed up. There were lots of better ways in in-universe technical terms for it to be portrayed. However, there is one thing J J Abrams is good at and that is visual spectacle. He certainly chose the method that looked most dramatic.
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That might be intentional to make the coincidences more palatable. Also I think it all takes place in a single galaxy.
Galaxies are 10s, if not 100s, of thousands of light years across.
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Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.
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Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.
Han Solo refers to making the jump to light speed.
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Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

Some Warsie physicists have suggested that an intergalactic flight at observed hyperdrive speeds would take no more than several months, including several stop-offs to take navigational references and correct their course. That's why the Outbound Project (a crewed intergalactic probe ship in the dying days of the Old Republic) was possible.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.

There is some question about the nature of hyperspace as it has never been explained in a canon source. What we do know is that it is travel through a realm close enough to the 'real' universe that objects like the gravity wells of stars and planets as well as stellar eruptions like supernovae are navigational hazards.

I wonder if it is something like the Mass Effect FTL drive where the drive creates a 'bubble' around the ship where it is not affected by the wider space-time continuum. Whilst travelling in normal space, it is thus isolated from inertia and relativistic effects and allowing it to 'snap' to its destination at a speed determined by the energy of the bubble. Gravity wells, being space-time topographical distortions, disrupt the structure of the bubble and make it unstable, potentially causing the ship to become affected by relativity again and forcing it sub-light.

The best assumption that I've seen about speeds is that the 'point five past lightspeed' that Han specifies as the Falcon's FTL cruising speed is a logarithmic scale where zero is lightspeed and one is infinite velocity (like the revised Warp 10 in Star Trek).
« Last Edit: 05 Jan 2016, 04:03 by BenRG »
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Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.
Han Solo refers to making the jump to light speed.
They might be able to reach light speed, but not surpass it.
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Which is why you either have to bend space or shift to a different plane of existence where distances are reduced. Interstellar travel by necessity would have to involve reducing the distance traveled since even at the speed of light travel would to 100s or 1000s of years.
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Right, that's my point. They can't travel FTL, but they don't need to because hyperspace.
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The problem is that they actually reference going to light speed or past it in the movies. Which can be handwaved as poor scripting by persons who don't understand how physics works, of course.
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Quote from: something I made up
Han Solo: I wasn't there for you when I should have been, and for that I'm sorry. But I'm still your father, and I love you.
Kylo Ren: I know (stabs)
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In RL physics, there is no mathematical reason why an object can't travel faster than light (there is even some disputed evidence that there is a particle that travels faster than light and backwards in time, the Tachyon). The trick is accelerating past light-speed, which General Relativity specifies requires infinite energy. Most sci-fi either hand-waves it off or comes up with a tech-babble work-around.

Star Trek has an entire chapter in the show bible dedicated to the subject. Star Wars just chooses the hand-wave route and focusses instead on character interactions and action scenes.
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Neko_Ali


Well they never showed the Death Star moving at all. But they did talk about 'setting course' so clearly it does. The first two super lasers were powerful, but still direct fire weapons. They had to be in the system they wanted to attack, and move around planets. Hence the whole count down thing in episode 4 where the Rebels were racing to blow it up before it could destroy Yavin 4. So it moved and had to use hyperspace. It was just so big and moved so slow it seemed stationary unless you were viewing it from very far away.

Starkiller Base through throws out any kind of physics or concept of distances in space. It could fire tracking energy beams that would travel across interstellar distances, curving to hit their targets and destroy them in a big, dramatic group shot. Something that would never happen. You never see five planets close enough together to be visible in one shot. Even if they are all part of the same system. And that's without even getting into the ridiculousness of the power supply and the likelyhood they would need to relocate every time they fired.
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They call it a "hyperspace weapon" so I guess it is supposed to shoot through hyperspace, but the visuals did not back that up. One of my biggest complaints about the film was the complete and utter lack of understanding of scale on the part of the filmmakers.
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How do you aim a weapon made out of a planet? Do you just wait until it rotates to the position you want? And that doesn't take into account the fact that space is three dimensional. What about the z-axis?

[Edit]
Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.
maybe they used the force

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Maybe I should just accept "The Force" as the default response to any unanswered questions in the film series
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Like in Xena... a wizard did it.





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Maybe I should just accept "The Force" as the default response to any unanswered questions in the film series
Randall: I wonder why the light sabers only go yea high, what stops them from going on forever?
Dante: I dunno, the Force?
Randall: That's your answer for everything!

(I think it was that order, it's from Clerks: tAS, which may be the best thing Kevin Smith has ever done)
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Travel between galaxies is totally possible in Star Wars. Although it is no longer canon, there is an invasion from a species outside of the galaxy, taking place during the time of the New Republic. I forgot the details, though, and am too lazy to look it up right now.
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Although it is no longer canon
I find it interesting how quick people are to accept what is and isn't canon just on Disney's word. I never really considered any of the books canon (at least not movie-level canon), but Disney can't make those books not matter. At most they can say that the old books were their own canon, but they're still Star Wars, and the movies were never bound to the books anyway.
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BenRG

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Although it is no longer canon

I find it interesting how quick people are to accept what is and isn't canon just on Disney's word. I never really considered any of the books canon (at least not movie-level canon), but Disney can't make those books not matter. At most they can say that the old books were their own canon, but they're still Star Wars, and the movies were never bound to the books anyway.

Purely FWIW, I didn't always accept Lucasfilm's word on what was and was not canon. I've long preferred Timothy Zahn's version of the Clone Wars - an uprising by the Republic's clone army against its masters that started a 'we want more security' societal movement leading to the rise of the Emperor - as being a more fascinating narrative possibility than the movie canon Civil War against the Separatists.
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Why Lupita Nyong’o Didn’t Want To Be Seen In “Star Wars”

I was originally disappointed that Lupita Nyong'o was playing a CGI character, but I didn't realize that it was her decision.  Disappointment rescinded.
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Can I give her a standing ovation for that article?
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So people are suggesting Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter. If that's the case, why can't she be the daughter of Obi-Wan's daughter and Luke Skywalker?
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Is there any evidence to suggest Obi Wan has children?

(Outside the extended universe)
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I dunno..

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None at all! Doesn't mean he doesn't, though.
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So people are suggesting Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter. If that's the case, why can't she be the daughter of Obi-Wan's daughter and Luke Skywalker?

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Edit: I kind of want a BB-8 giving a "thumbs up" tattoo.
« Last Edit: 07 Jan 2016, 09:45 by Method of Madness »
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hedgie


Nothing like Wikipedia vandalism by whatever they're calling the Empire now.
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Kylo must have WiFi at the hospital where he's recovering.
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I am altering the wiki. Pray I do not alter it any further.
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Why Lupita Nyong’o Didn’t Want To Be Seen In “Star Wars”

I was originally disappointed that Lupita Nyong'o was playing a CGI character, but I didn't realize that it was her decision.  Disappointment rescinded.

I think she's becoming one of my new favorite people...
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How is Kylo a wuss for being defeated by Rey? He was hit by a direct shot from Chewbacca's Bowcaster and managed to walk away barely flinching.

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And he was bleeding out the whole fight and still almost won. He had her on the run until right up at the end.
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Also he was arrogant as fuck, as well as seemingly not trying to kill her, for recruiting purposes.
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Never thought of it before I saw this, but of course Chewie helped raise Ben. So sad :(
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On a happier note:

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Saw this a second time yesterday and noticed a couple of things I missed in my first viewing;

Rey in her (cabin? shack? nest?) has a doll of a person wearing a rebellion flightsuit. Possibly a clue as to who her parents might be?

In her vision when she touches the lightsaber, one of the last things I heard among the mess is Obi-Wan (with a very Alec Guinness style voice) quite calmly saying "Rey..."

I suspect she's going to turn out to be related to Luke (because the Star Wars universe has always been incredibly small, in movie canon) but hearing the theories about her being Obi-Wan's granddaughter seem plausible I guess.
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I honestly don't see any indication from previous movies that Obi-Wan has kids, but there's nothing making it explicitly impossible, so I guess it could work. But if Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter, then I still stand by this:
why can't she be the daughter of Obi-Wan's daughter and Luke Skywalker?
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The only official romantic relationship with which Obi-Wan is linked is with another Jedi, Siri Tachi, who died during the Clone Wars, about 3 years before Luke and Leia were born.
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1. What was Lucas's story about?
2. And why the hell didn't he make them himself, if his ideas were (supposedly) so much better?


A theory I subscribe to is that Lucas is a great ideas guy, but (like most writers) he needs editing and co-writers to achieve greatness.  So Lucas + Leigh Brackett + Lawrence Kasdan => The Empire Strikes Back

Lucas + a few yes-men => Jar-Jar Binks.
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In her vision when she touches the lightsaber, one of the last things I heard among the mess is Obi-Wan (with a very Alec Guinness style voice) quite calmly saying "Rey..."

I have read that they snipped that bit of dialogue from Alec Guinness saying "afraid." Pretty neat.

At the very end of the flashback, there is a bit more from Obi-Wan: "You've taken your first step..."
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