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Clinton begs his mum to let Eyebrow Girl sleep over for the night

Clinton begs Claire, Marten and Faye to let Eyebrow Girl sleep over for the night

Clinton begs his mum to let Eyebrow Girl sleep over for the night; it turns into a longer-term thing

We cut back to Marten and Claire; Clinton's call for help interrupts a... moment

Bubbles has things to think about and notices a fire in the city... a BIG fire

We meet another of Jeph's new characters when she comes into CoD the next morning

New arc! Steve returns and he needs Marten's help for something!

New arc! Just what has Hannelore been doing with her time when she isn't at CoD?

New arc! May's probation hearing is coming up and she needs to persuade her friends to speak on her behalf

Other

[Zastie]

Can always call with number-assigned contacts.

[Mr_Rose]

I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...

He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.

[zmeiat_joro]

Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.

I don't there's much to grasp. It's anorthographic convention that indicates that this is the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel. It used to, and still can be, written as an <e> after, the <e> started being writen on top, which eventualy morphed into the umlaut. I've seen it writen as an <e> on top even in 20th century texts, though, and it's still very common to write it as an <e> after.

[Storel]

Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.

I don't there's much to grasp. It's an orthographic convention that indicates that this is the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel. It used to, and still can be, written as an <e> after, the <e> started being writen on top, which eventualy morphed into the umlaut. I've seen it writen as an <e> on top even in 20th century texts, though, and it's still very common to write it as an <e> after.

I was taught that writing an 'e' after the vowel rather than an umlaut above the vowel was usually done as way of writing German words in languages that don't have umlauts, like English. I see it a lot in the names of families whose ancestors immigrated to the US from Germany: Koenig instead of König, Schaefer instead of Schäfer, Schueler instead of Schüler, that kind of thing.

Also, I think chaospersonified was talking about understanding how to pronounce umlauted vowels. Maybe you were too, but if so I have no idea what "the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel" means, sorry.

I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.

[Eastrim]

I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...

He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.

Do you just wiggle your hips and say "call Joe"?

Thought Clairemom WAS Claire for a second.

All anyone sees is the red hair...

I think I love your brain.

Why, thank you! It's not for sale, though.

[zmeiat_joro]

I was taught that writing an 'e' after the vowel rather than an umlaut above the vowel was usually done as way of writing German words in languages that don't have umlauts, like English. I see it a lot in the names of families whose ancestors immigrated to the US from Germany: Koenig instead of König, Schaefer instead of Schäfer, Schueler instead of Schüler, that kind of thing.

Also, I think chaospersonified was talking about understanding how to pronounce umlauted vowels. Maybe you were too, but if so I have no idea what "the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel" means, sorry.

For example in German and Spanish "o" and "u" are back, "e" and "i" are front. "o" with and umlaut is pronounced with the lips rounded but otherwise like "e", "u" with an umlaut with the lips rounded but otherwise like "i". "a" is a back vowel in German, and "a" with an umlaut is front, similar to the "a" in the English word "back".

[chaospersonified]

You say these things like they make sense. I do not know what that means, that some vowel sounds are front and some are back.

I can MAKE the sounds if I've heard them. No amount of written word will help me understand how to make a sound. I need to hear it. That's what I was trying to say.

[Skewbrow]

It made sense to me. When I am articulating the only difference between A and Ä, O and Ö, or U and Ü (or in Scandinavia more likely Y) is the location of the tongue. In the umlauted versions the tongue moves to the front, and in the non-umlauted versions it stays in the back. Hence front/back vowels.

According to Wikipedia the proper terms would be front/redacted vowels.

And to return to where this started. If you have an un-umlauted version of Brunhilde, I think the 'u' should be pronounced like in the English word 'put'. The vowel in either 'broom' or 'flute' is too long IMHO.

[Random832]

Very interesting. But...
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.

It's still not clear what sound you think is in her name. Lubricus' core objection to your original statement was that the actual sound of "ü" is far enough off from "oo" that it's not a plausible mistake for Clinton to have made (as opposed to "ee").

[Mr_Rose]

I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...

He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.

Do you just wiggle your hips and say "call Joe"?

No, but close. Bluetooth headset + Siri. She knows all my contacts by name so I just have to tell her to call them for me.

[Random832]

Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")

The plural is rare because the word as a countable noun is rare. In principle, the word, as used in English, has two meanings:

Uncountable: The year of school immediately before first grade, of children aged 5-6 years old.
Countable: A school that only has kindergarten classes, and no preschool or elementary grade levels.

Such schools are themselves uncommon.

I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.

Well, in Sütterlin handwriting style the "e" (in full or as an umlaut) becomes two vertical lines. See Wikipedia. I suspect the use of two round dots in Antiqua typefaces simply followed naturally from a unification (who wants to keep two different versions around in the movable type era) with the diaeresis/trema, a distinct diacritic originally from Greek indicating a separation of two adjacent vowels.

You say these things like they make sense. I do not know what that means, that some vowel sounds are front and some are back.

It has to do with where your tongue is in your mouth. Make the sounds that you do know how to make, and pay attention to how your tongue is positioned.

[Gyrre]

Except that, as some people noted, her reaction wasn't actually unusual at all. The situation is what's unusual - she doesn't have to be autistic or had past trauma for her reaction to be a perfectly reasonable reaction to this trauma. People's responses in high stress situations run the gamut, and hers is fairly well known.

I think the main reason for the autism speculation is that she knows she's going to become nonverbal due to the stress and because she knows she doesn't handle emotions all that well.

That latter bit is the only thing I can think of to cause the trauma speculation.

[Case]

Considering how much attention people have been paying to the clock lately, I'm quite surprised nobody has questioned Jeph's classification of it as a cuckoo clock. There really is no indication that it is a cuckoo clock aside from Jeph saying so, but as an amateur clock enthusiast, I really would like to say that I believe that he is incorrect. A cuckoo clock that anybody might recognize as such would have many carvings and ornamentations around the case that would still be visible from the back, which is the only view of it we have been given thus far. A cuckoo clock would also have a minimum of four chains hanging from the bottom (technically two chains with both ends hanging down, with a cast iron weight attached to one end of each). It seems to me that what she has is simply a small spring driven mantle clock, which of course may still be of German origin.

Now that you mention it ... You're right! Black Forest cuckoo-clocks are usually big, heavy affairs you hang on walls. My Grandma had one that fits your description, with heavy weights at the end of the chains in the shape of fir-cones. Something like this


As to how "typically German" they are these days:
Those are the type of clocks that many younger Germans (only) remember from their grandparents' places, or clocks which are often sold to the US and China - the "originals" are really pricey - and, again, for us me, this is "What Granny had on the Walls". Really old-school. Clashes a bit with the interior decoration younger Germans tend to prefer ...
... when you've had lots of dark greens and diarrhoea-browns in your childhood, you tend to prefer the kind of colours that make a black-forest cuckoo-clock stick out like a ... huge, noisy contraption coloured like a bathroom-accident 

(There's a few articles (albeit in German) that tie the economic "crisis" of Black Forest cuckoo-clock manufacturers to the Dollar exchange rate ... On top of changing fashions, one could surmise that people tend to eschew 'last-opportunity purchases' of unwieldy 500€ mechanisms with chains and weights one could use for martial-arts training when the manufacturer is only an hour's drive away - It seems it's mostly US citizens on a Europe-tour that make such spur-of-the-moment purchases)

If you do a Google-Image-Search for "Kuckucksuhr", the only casing that vaguely resembles Brunhilde's clock is:



in a Cuckoo-clock DIY-quide. This is something you'd be more likely to find in an actual German-burrow, rather than the thingy in the first pic.

(I think that "Kuckucksuhr" is more like smth. of a meme for younger Germans - a part of folk-lore - rather than a specific, patented type of clockwork. The shape of the casing - the "Bahnwärter-Häusschen" (Train-station-attendant-kiosk) - is mandatory, as is the damn bird, but the rest ... This is, of course, totally subjective speculation, extrapolated from one datapoint/person ... Based on some German ads I get from the Google-search, it seems you can sell smth. you call a 'Kuckucksuhr' to a German if it has a particular casing & the bloody bird, and if it's cheaper than 19.99€ and made in North Korea - but, of course, we'd know it's not the 'real deal', but a cuckoo-clock 'in spirit only'. Same as Japanese know that not everything that is called a 'Katana' is a priceless inheritance handed down from father to son ever since it was forged in the 16th century, see?)

And now that you've mentioned it: Jeph never said it was a cuckoo-clock - He asked "Is this a cuckoo-clock?".

------------------------- She's not autistic - she's just German! -----------------------------------
Sooooooh:

* Jeph took a name that screams "I am German!" to the germano-a-typical, because it says so in popular US culture.
   Actually, Brunhilde was most 'popular' as a girls name in 1925 (place 63. Yes, we have statistics for that. It's Germany ...). Right now, there's no data on it's popularity, because the sample-size is too small.
   I've never, ever met somebody named Brunhilde, or Brünhild etc. (*)

* Then he took a clunky contraption and asked "Is this a cuckoo-clock?" ...
And everybody, myself included, goes: "Trival, my dear Watson - She's German, of course: Hypnotising cuckoo clocks and passing on messages to please leave them alone bcs. pooping is WHAT GERMANS DO!"

(Really, we do stuff like that - like, all the fucking time. Ok, everytime you aren't looking ... Fine, alright, you got me - we don't. Like NOT AT ALL ...)

(*) Even the more common "Hildegard" is rather rare - those are the types of old-school names that translate into smth. like "Fabled Chest-Armour, Rips-intestines-from-their-enemies-guts" in old-high-German. Not really that popular these days ...


-----------------------------------------------------------
@Storel, @zmeiat_joro:
EDIT: Removed bollocks ...

The rowdiest Umloutz in the German language - the so-called Umlewdz - are ... *drumroll* ... "Tüpfelhyänenöhrchen" (Ears-of-a-spotted-hyena) and "Übergrössenträger" ((Male)-Plus-size-wearer)

[Morituri]

OTOH, I am American, and there was a Brünhilde in my first-grade class.  Whom we called "Brill" until fifth grade when she started insisting on people using her full name.  There was also a Thed, (rhymes with "need") who I thought had the more unusual name.

Oh, and FWIW, the full rule that gets applied to "Kindergarten" is

"T when it occurs between two voiced vowels, is usually pronounced with a D sound, unless the word is emphasized in the sentence or the syllable is emphasized in the word.   This is almost universally true in large urban centers in America.  In rural areas, it usually depends on whether the original settlers in that area were mostly German immigrants, and on how long it's been since the area was settled.

[BenRG]

Poll Results

So, now what?
1. Clinton begs his mum to let Eyebrow Girl Brun sleep over for the night; it turns into a longer-term thing - 25 (23.1%)
2. We cut back to Marten and Claire; Clinton's call for help interrupts a... moment - 20 (18.5%)
3. Clinton begs his mum to let Eyebrow Girl Brun sleep over for the night - 13 (12%)
4. New arc! May's probation hearing is coming up and she needs to persuade her friends to speak on her behalf - 12 (11.1%)
5. Bubbles has things to think about and notices a fire in the city... a BIG fire - 11 (10.2%)
6. Clinton begs Claire, Marten and Faye to let Eyebrow Girl Brun sleep over for the night - 10 (9.3%)
=7. New arc! Just what has Hannelore been doing with her time when she isn't at CoD? - 6 (5.6%)
=7. Other - 6 (5.6%
9. New arc! Steve returns and he needs Marten's help for something! - 3 (2.8%)
10. We meet another of Jeph's new characters when she comes into CoD the next morning - 2 (1.9%)

Well, it turns out we were all wrong! I guess it's our own fault for not imagining that a local hotel could be so generous to offer someone benighted and without a home due to mischance a bed for a night! Shameful, cynical forumites that we are! Of course, it probably helps that Northampton's sheriff's department is footing the bill, I'm sure!

[Tova]

I'm so pleased that we have some proficient speakers of German here. This means that I can verify these translations from some Bach that we have been rehearsing. I've been assured that these are all basically correct.

Valet will ich dir geben
I will give a deer to the valet

Kommt, Seelen, dieser Tag
Come, seals, this day

Wie bist du, Seele
How are you, seal?

Christus, der uns selig macht
Christ, make us a salad

Nun lob mein Seel den Herren
Don't throw that herring to my seal

Was willst du dich, o meine Seele
What are you gonna do now, O my seal?

Christ lag in Todes Banden
Christ is late to every band rehearsal

Schmücke dich, o liebe Seele
My dear seal, you are such a schmuck

[zmeiat_joro]

The plural is rare because the word as a countable noun is rare. In principle, the word, as used in English, has two meanings:

Uncountable: The year of school immediately before first grade, of children aged 5-6 years old.
Countable: A school that only has kindergarten classes, and no preschool or elementary grade levels.

Such schools are themselves uncommon.

Off-topic, but the countable version is actually pretty common, the default, in fact, in Bulgaria. And cause for much angst, I might add, for parents to find one which is nearby and decent.

I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.

Well, in Sütterlin handwriting style the "e" (in full or as an umlaut) becomes two vertical lines. See Wikipedia. I suspect the use of two round dots in Antiqua typefaces simply followed naturally from a unification (who wants to keep two different versions around in the movable type era) with the diaeresis/trema, a distinct diacritic originally from Greek indicating a separation of two adjacent vowels.

Ha! I knew that but somehow I forgot. I mean it's obvious they reused the diaresis/trema, but that it came from Sütterlin.

[Indicible]

@ Tova

Ha ha , nice gag translation

[Case]

@Tova: I can't even ... 

"Christ, make us a salad" 

Priceless!

Yeah, ummmh, basically ... correct!

[zmeiat_joro]

@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut! 
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and  EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.

[retrosteve]

@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

It also means 'good' (fem. sing.) in Hebrew. And being a pretty short word with two open syllables, is probably represented in a lot of languages. But I know for sure it's a Hebrew girl's name.

[oeoek]

Needed some time to get my head around the past week.
1: Clin-ton seems to have a subscription on weird nights. Must be character building or something.
2: Have we seen Chad before the store? Like here?
3: I see no indication for Brun being autistic. After all this is a universe that has pizza's delivered by superheroes or dropped from orbit, and even an every day coffee shop has several lethal weapons within reach. A harpoon in a bar is peanuts. For all we know Brun might be a heavy stutterer who has managed to overcome her problem, unless stressed. Silence is just her other solution.
4: I am very curious about that clock...

[Zastie]

Man, it's gonna be really depressing if Clinton&Brunhilde become a thing and to see Emily's reaction. She didn't outright reject Clinton 100%, and if he suddenly goes off for someone else that'd just be sad 'cuz she'd probably be regretful about it all.

(Also I just noticed when Clinton is saying he'll call a cab his breath is a little heart flopping downward.. probably not intentional but still kinda funny.)

[Case]

I think his seal could use a herring ...

[Tova]

Hi zmeiat_joro and retrosteve,

@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut! 
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and  EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.

It also means 'good' (fem. sing.) in Hebrew. And being a pretty short word with two open syllables, is probably represented in a lot of languages. But I know for sure it's a Hebrew girl's name.

Okay, so the story behind my username...

I used to play World of Warcraft, and I had just created a new character... a female dwarf holy priest (I am male, but usually picked a female character in WoW). I was fishing about for a name that was short but not taken, which was a pretty big ask, even in those relatively early days of the game.

I came across Tova, and I liked it. I chose it for exactly the reasons that retrosteve mentioned. It means 'good', which I felt worked for a healer, and it's a nice short name that is easy to type and to say over ventrillo while raiding. And I liked the sound of it. Most importantly, no-one else had yet taken it. It ticked all the boxes.

I've stopped playing now, which is a long story in itself. I got to a point where I identified closely with my character by the time I was done with the game, so I've become fond of the name and still use it from time to time.

Avatar: yes, it's from The Wombles, a show I grew up watching. Yes, it's Uncle Bulgaria. I didn't actually realise Tova was a Bulgarian word, so that's just a happy coincidence.

Emoticons: I still remember when we just called them smilies. (:

[Tova]

I think his seal could use a herring ...

Nun lob sein Seel den Herren!

[Case]

I think his seal could use a herring ...

Nun lob sein Seel den Herren!

I'd like to know your "mockslator's" version of Machs´s mit mir, Gott, nach deiner Güt,

(Hoping for some leniency from the resident non-heathens here - I used to be in a children's choir & remember well us playing the same game with some Italian chorals)

[Tova]

I believe it can roughly be translated to, "Make me some gloves, God, once you've eaten."

Bach wrote a lot of these, didn't he? This must be an obscure holiday.

[Case]

I believe it can roughly be translated to, "Make me some gloves, God, once you've eaten."

Bach wrote a lot of these, didn't he? This must be an obscure holiday.

Oh, yes! Every German child remembers "Glovesgiving Day".
And the "Offer of the soup"!
Staple of German culture ... 

[Tova]

I really must learn not to read these forums when sudden bursts of laughter would wake my partner. 

[Tova]

Because I was reading through a Pergolesi score, I thought I would provide some more translations that every classical musician should know.

grave	Watch the conductor
larghetto	Watch the conductor
andante	Watch the conductor
allegro (ma non troppo)	Watch the conductor
allegro	Watch the conductor
a tempo giusto	Watch the conductor
presto assai	Watch the conductor
Finis Laus Deo	You can stop watching the conductor now, thank God

[Squiddlywinx]

From Crisis to Crisis? Sounds a lot like DC Comics, doesn't it? Am I right or am I right?

 

[Storel]

Just saw this on Facebook, and had to post a copy here after all the linguistic discussion lately (spoilered for size):

(click to show/hide)

[hedgie]

Oh yes, English would probably make the attempt to have it actually written "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" and expect someone to grok the meaning.

[Gyrre]

@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut! 
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and  EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.

This vid will help with #s 6 &7.

[Storel]

Oh yes, English would probably make the attempt to have it actually written "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" and expect someone to grok the meaning.

I don't think I grok your meaning, unless you're saying that "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" is hard to understand? It seems easy to me, though, which is why I don't think I'm interpreting you correctly. Or are you saying that many people won't get the reference to Dante's Inferno, in which that particular phrase is engraved above the door to Hell?

[Kugai]

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by
Here, by Spartan law we lie.

[Laminator_X]

I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.

"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"

FWIW, I'm not on the spectrum and still got a heavy spectrum vibe from Brun starting around the time she oferred Clinton the free drink. The little stuff adds up.