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Clinton drinks Brain Bleach

Emily and Brun meet - Chaos ensues

We meet Bruns boss - Hannermom

We meet Bruns boss - Brian!

Emily runs into Clinton while he's waiting for his Cab

Sunday Dinner at Clairemoms - Awkwardness ensues

Jeph trolls us with a week of Steve eating Cereal with Tortura

Back to Faye and Bubbles

Nothing in this Poll is right

Spathe Pizza with Ham and Beer

[Zebediah]

That's initially what I thought when I read it to. As far as I read, she's not making a sarcastic quip about not having renters insurance, she's pointing out that she's not a renter. (And doesn't have insurance.)

For what it's worth, I didn't think she was being sarcastic, or pointing out anything. I think she just didn't know what Clinton was talking about ("Renters insurance, what is that?").

That was my take too - she had never even considered the concept before, and suddenly realizes how really great it would have been to have that yesterday.

For what it's worth, I don't think she owned the bar. Or the building it was in. I think she was an employee of the bar and rented the apartment above because it was convenient. Now she's unemployed and homeless.

[Tova]

Or the apartment accommodation was a part of the job package.

Yeah.  Had Contents Insurance since I'm renting here

Was it questionable?

You'd probably have to declare that.

[jheartney]

If Brun were the bar owner, she'd almost certainly have insurance on it. If she had a mortgage on the place, the bank would require insurance. Even if she owned it outright, she'd almost certainly have it insured. But she strikes me as far more transient than that, which means she's down to whatever the fire dept. saved, her clock, and, possibly, a bank account. If there's no bank account she's probably headed for a homeless shelter.

If Clinton really wants to be a mensch, he could ask Clairemom about Brun staying in the spare room while she looks for another bartending gig and a place to live. It'd beat the hell out of a homeless shelter, even if it means listening to CM and Chad making loud whoopee.

[Case]

Can one of the resident US natives explain Jeph's use of "pathos" to me?

I feel like I'm missing smth. in differing cultural contexts - e.g. there's a difference in the use of "pathetic" and it's German translation "bemitleidenswert" (worthy-of-pity/empathy). IME, Germans would use "bemitleidenswert" in the sense that a person objectively qualifies for ('is worthy of-') sympathetic empathy ('Mit-Leid' literally means 'co-suffering') - e.g. their lot is such that they are above relativism of the "others have it harder"-type.
The focus is on the victim and their suffering. There is no implicit connotation of them being at fault for their lot - I've never heard "bemitleidenswert" spoken through a sneer (*).  If anything, there's an implicit exhortation to 'take pity with them' in the connotation-cloud.

"Pathetic", on the other hand, seems to indicate ... much of the same, yet I've frequently heard it spoken/written with a scornful, even condescending note? As if the speaker was angry with the sufferer for 'evoking pity/demanding sympathy from them', or contemptuous for bringing themselves into a situation where they evoke pity.

It's not that Germans don't victim-blame with the worst of them, or are above "Schadenfreude" (Ha! Ha!) - it just means that use of the term "bemitleidenswert" would indicate (amongst other things) an affirmation by the speaker that such feelings are objectively inappropriate in that specific context - that the speaker would feel you are a bad person if you expressed such feelings in that context - whereas the particular use of "pathetic" I've pointed out above seem to indicate quite the opposite, in fact.

With that in mind - what does "pathos" mean here? That Clinton would feel compelled to feel empathy/sympathy with Brun's lot? Or that he would feel angry with her for not having renters insurance?

---
(*) Though I hasten to add that this has been changing recently - Some (young) people have started using "Opfer" (Victim) as a slur. Unabashed victim-blaming of the purest sort. Blaming victims for being victims ...

[BenRG]

Pathos is here used in its original meaning from classical Hellenic literature: Words and events that invoke in the audience and are meant to communicate from the source text intense emotions, primarily negative ones such as grief.

[Truec]

Hmmm, in the event that Brun isn't the owner of the bar, does she have grounds to sue the owner for the fire?

[mikmaxs]

Hmmm, in the event that Brun isn't the owner of the bar, does she have grounds to sue the owner for the fire?

Or the manufacturer of the extinguisher, since it didn't work.

[wlewisiii]

Hmmm, in the event that Brun isn't the owner of the bar, does she have grounds to sue the owner for the fire?

Or the manufacturer of the extinguisher, since it didn't work.

Depends.
1) What was the actual cause of the fire? Wiring? Cig in the trash? A lightnig strike on a TV antenna? Etc ad nausum?
2) Was it something that could have been prevented by, say, normal regular maintenance? If so was that maintenence put off to an unacceptable degree out of some form of negligence? Or was it what insurance companies refer to as "an act of god"?
3) Fire extinguishers need maintenance and annual inspection. Did the extinguisher get inspected in the proper time frame? Was the failure due to manufacturer issues or maintenance issues? Most importantly, was there any negligence involved and if so, to what level did it rise to?
4) Lawyers are _expensive_. Brun has nothing right now and that, more than anything, is what always does in even the most legitimate of suits.

In the end? No, she will not be suing anyone unless Hannelore takes up her cause.

[hedgie]

And were that the case, if Hanners made a quick call to her mum, everything would be taken out without the bother of a court case

[JimC]

"Pathetic", on the other hand, seems to indicate ... much of the same, yet I've frequently heard it spoken/written with a scornful, even condescending note?

Multiple meanings... As well as the meaning you describe 'pathetic' has another meaning with shades of inadequate and unacceptable ('I was offered a pathetic 300 dollar insurance settlement, when it was easily worth a thousand') , hence your scornful/condescending note. This may be a fairly recent development.  But I've never come across this kind of feeling being attached to 'pathos'.

[Case]

Pathos is here used in its original meaning from classical Hellenic literature: Words and events that invoke in the audience and are meant to communicate from the source text intense emotions, primarily negative ones such as grief.

So Clinton means "It's too early in the morning to rip my shirt and holler at the Gods for the evil that befalleth Humankind"? And Jeph adds "There's never a good time to rip your shirt and holler at the Gods for the evil that befalleth Humankind"!

\begin{tongue_in_cheek_snark}
Now I'm even more confused - Why point that out? Of course there's never a good time to rip your shirt and holler at the Gods when faced with tragedy? For starters, once you're done, the tragedy is still tragic - plus you've ruined a perfectly good shirt & managed to look like an idiot?
\end{tongue_in_cheek_snark}

(click to show/hide)

Ah, I see. There's indeed the adjective "pathetisch" (the literal-literal parallel to "pathetic" - in the sense of meaning 'with pathos') in German - but the translations of "pathetisch" into English range from "with much emotion" to "histrionic". (And most of the German synonyms for the translations are ... very far from being complimentary).

On the other hand, the translations of the English "pathetic" into German mostly mean smth. like 'wretched' - only three of the eleven translations are synonyms for the term "bemitleidenswert", which I pontificated about explained above.

So a US citizen exhorting somebody "Not (to) be pathetic" would mean "Quit being whiny - it's not so bad" - whereas their German contemporary would mean "Oh stop the histrionics already - You're not on stage!".

"Pathetic", on the other hand, seems to indicate ... much of the same, yet I've frequently heard it spoken/written with a scornful, even condescending note?

Multiple meanings... As well as the meaning you describe 'pathetic' has another meaning with shades of inadequate and unacceptable ('I was offered a pathetic 300 dollar insurance settlement, when it was easily worth a thousand') , hence your scornful/condescending note. This may be a fairly recent development.  But I've never come across this kind of feeling being attached to 'pathos'.

I see - there's the term "kläglich" (evoking pity/mourning) that seems to fit the latter meaning. For example, "Don Quijote" often has the subtitle "Der Ritter von der traurigen/kläglichen Gestalt" (The Knight of pathetic stature)

[Neko_Ali]

eh, given the nature of the comic and past similar incidents I expect that Brun will get a settlement from someone, or a new place to live/job by the end of the week. Jeph has never been interested in showing characters dealing with the annoyances and issues around financial troubles. They tend to be wrapped up quickly and neatly, and really only serve to generate plot lines and character growth.

[Gyrre]

(Also, epic foreshadowing.)

I never really understood why it's so verboten to ship the characters when Jeph does so regularly, both in the sense of writing their relationships and writing characters who are shipping the other characters. Both the board and Jeph act like it's some kind of offense against the material.

I can't speak for others, but it only really bugs me if the character is WAY OoC or if they're dropped into a super toxic relationship (usually with a fan chatacter or a self-insert character). The OoC issue can be mediated with a sizable and well written character arc that accounts for the personality change.

Other than that, it has to do with conflicting headcanons, conflicting opinions/egos/personalities,  and an unnerving amount of your-kink-not-my-kink. And some people just hate crack-pairings. At least, that's what I've garnered from tumblr when posts discussing how to deal with the problematic fans of some fandom or another come across my dash (mostly for Undertale).

[Tova]

I am no linguist, nor am I an etymologist*, so take my words with a grain of salt...

My understanding is that 'pathetic' in the sense of 'inadequate' or 'wretched' is a relatively modern affectation. The earlier sense of the word, and the one that I think is intended in the comic, is that of 'evoking intense pity or grief'.

Think Tchaikovsky's Pathétique symphony.

https://youtu.be/3ebQYH6EpJ8

* From the ancient Saxon etya (where our word for eat comes from) which means "to swallow", and the Latin mal which can mean either 'bad' or 'difficult'. Hence, the study of that which is hard to swallow.

So Clinton means "It's too early in the morning to rip my shirt and holler at the Gods for the evil that befalleth Humankind"? And Jeph adds "There's never a good time to rip your shirt and holler at the Gods for the evil that befalleth Humankind"!

Yes, exactly. 

[Case]

I am no linguist, nor am I an etymologist*, so take my words with a grain of salt...

...

* From the ancient Saxon etya (where our word for eat comes from) which means "to swallow", and the Latin mal which can mean either 'bad' or 'difficult'. Hence, the study of that which is hard to swallow.

Ah ... so that's why one has to take it with a grain of salt!

As to the meaning of 'mal' ...

[Storel]

Brun's hair shows Jeph's anime influence today with an ahoge as part of her bedhead.

This confused me because I'd never before seen the word 'bedhead' used to refer to anything other than the panel at the head of a bed.

I've always heard the panel at the head of a bed called a "headboard", never a "bedhead." Is that a translation from some other language than English?

As far as I read, she's not making a sarcastic quip about not having renters insurance, she's pointing out that she's not a renter. (And doesn't have insurance.)

Like others, I thought she was repeating the phrase slowly as an expression she'd never heard before.  Like, she had no idea there WAS such a thing as "renter's insurance". Perhaps a question mark at the end of her phrase would have made it clearer, if that was Jeph's intention.

If Brun were the bar owner, she'd almost certainly have insurance on it. If she had a mortgage on the place, the bank would require insurance. Even if she owned it outright, she'd almost certainly have it insured. But she strikes me as far more transient than that, which means she's down to whatever the fire dept. saved, her clock, and, possibly, a bank account. If there's no bank account she's probably headed for a homeless shelter.

If they hadn't specified there was only "one box" of her belongings they were able to save, I'd have bet that they found the harpoon amid the wreckage.

[hedgie]

Like others, I thought she was repeating the phrase slowly as an expression she'd never heard before.  Like, she had no idea there WAS such a thing as "renter's insurance". Perhaps a question mark at the end of her phrase would have made it clearer, if that was Jeph's intention.

The lack of question mark makes sense, in that I agree with your assessment.  She seems as though she's dealing with a new concept and may even be sounding it out.  A "?" would likely indicate uptalk which would not normally be used in this scenario.

[mustang6172]

I may be going out on a limb, but I don't think she'll get her security deposit back.

[Tova]

Brun's hair shows Jeph's anime influence today with an ahoge as part of her bedhead.

This confused me because I'd never before seen the word 'bedhead' used to refer to anything other than the panel at the head of a bed.

I've always heard the panel at the head of a bed called a "headboard", never a "bedhead." Is that a translation from some other language than English?

Yes, probably. That would be British. Itself deriving from Old English. 

[xanadu84]

Posting on here for the first time because this Brun arc is something i'm relating to quite a bit. I know that speculation that Brun has Autism seems to meet with some negative reactions, but honestly, i'm getting constant flashbacks to when I was dating someone with Autism. From her intro and onward...

Brun seems to have a mental script in place regarding angry patrons, which she is applying to Clinton. Angry patrons cause trouble and get in fights. She has a system for dealing with that. It's probably pretty effective overall, but gets a bit awkward when dealing with certain nuances of what kind of anger, and what kind of person. She doesn't appear to be malicious. Shes just smart, but has to handle certain social interactions by rote. I can practically see her comparing Clintons face to what she has memorized as, "Anger", and acting accordingly.

Her apology regarding threatening Clinton appears to me to be indelicate, but also sincere. She seems to care about how other people perceive her, and being a, "Nice" person, but doesn't have a tone most of us are used to. This repeats itself a few time, acting in a way that is nice enough, but seems to ignore a lot of social expectations.

Rote memorization of some social scripts seems to be common in Autism. Brun does this, and explains them explicitly.

Brun has some truly meaningful insights regarding social interactions between Clinton and Claire, and it seems to be the kind that only come from looking past unhelpful social structures, and looking at the rational underpinnings underneath. This is a great strength I experienced getting to know people with Autism, and it seems to be present in Brun.

Where I really started to think she is Autistic, and not just having some set of personality traits, was after the fire. I could just feel myself instinctively itching over seeing those blaring sirens. I could feel my concern about Brun becoming overstimulated, losing the ability to speak, and stimming, maybe focusing on some repetitive behavior. Not freaking out or breaking down, just being so overwhelmed that its hard to process everything. Then she stopped speaking, even though she seemed pretty capable, and fixated on that clock. The clock could have been a coincidence, maybe that's not stimming. but it was weird to see her react exactly the way I thought.

She doesn't care that expectations are that she shorten her name to Hilde instead of Brun. She says that she isn't great with emotions, but she seems to be a sensitive and caring person, its like she just expressed them differently. Not exactly a DSM criteria, but feels very familiar. Same with not being able to sleep in a hotel because its weird. Hardley a criteria for Autism, but pretty consistent with a dislike of change.

I hope that Brun is revealed to have Autism, because she seems to be a pretty damn good representation, and we need more of that.

[TheEvilDog]

Interesting (and disturbing) fact concerning whaling.

(click to show/hide)

The landmines set during the Falklands War have had the unintended effect of creating a penguin sanctuary and helping to raise their numbers. The Falklands were a common stopping point for whaling ships who wanted to prepare the whales they had caught for the journey back to their ports. They used to use the penguins as a source of fuel for the fires that would render the whales down. A couple of hundred years of this lead the penguins of the Falklands to be almost on the verge of extinction until the discovery of fossil fuels during the mid-19th century. Fishing around the Falklands between 1860 and 1982 reduced the penguins from around 6 million to less than 1 million. After the war, Argentina and Britain set up an exclusion zone around the Falklands, despite the prospect of 11 million barrels of oil off the coast, which has allowed the fish numbers to rise and with it the penguins. As well as that, because of the sheer number of mines laid down, poachers and tourists can't get anywhere near the penguins to disturb them and they're numbers have steadily risen over the last 35 years. And no, the penguins don't set off the mines.

[jheartney]

Posting on here for the first time because this Brun arc is something i'm relating to quite a bit. I know that speculation that Brun has Autism seems to meet with some negative reactions, but honestly, i'm getting constant flashbacks to when I was dating someone with Autism. From her intro and onward...

(snip)

I hope that Brun is revealed to have Autism, because she seems to be a pretty damn good representation, and we need more of that.

Thanks for that detailed set of observations. I too had thought from early on that Brun might be on the Autism spectrum, but since I know next to nothing about Autism, I figured I'm better off not commenting.

[Penquin47]

"Sufficiently butt-covering" 

[Tova]

Claire: 1.02e7

I would like to have the ability to articulate an ellipsis.

[mustang6172]

Anti-whaling?  Who could be opposed to a source of clean burning, renewable lamp oil?

[TheEvilDog]

Anti-whaling?  Who could be opposed to a source of clean burning, renewable lamp oil?

I'm going to go with "the animals that have to provide that lamp oil" for 200 points.

Also Ishmael.

[Penquin47]

Anti-whaling?  Who could be opposed to a source of clean burning, renewable lamp oil?

I imagine the whales would.

Also Captain Kirk.

[Near Lurker]

More importantly, we've kind of found out the hard way, it's not all that renewable.

Plus, if we're just talking about lamp oil, surely vegetable oils are a better bet...

[Tova]

Kerosene is easier to come by and doesn't smell as bad.

My hurricane lamp hasn't been used for many, many years, mind (not even sure where it is now, or whether I still have it).

[hedgie]

More importantly, we've kind of found out the hard way, it's not all that renewable.

It'd be quite renewable if it were only small populations doing it.  We as a species tend to spam-out our genes faster than the replacement rate of whales.

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, xanadu84!

[BenRG]

Like others, I want to know how to enunciate an ellipsis!

I wonder how fluently Brun can read back from her mental index cards the history of whaling? I also wonder how difficult she found it to associate those facts with anything in her personal reality.

Also, would I be right to say that Boston was a whaling port way back when?

[Kugai]

@Eastrim - You weren't here during The Great Shipping Wars  *Shudder*


And I bet Brun even knows where her towel is.

[Zastie]

~

Like jheartney said, that's some really nice insight - thanks! I also didn't/don't know a lot about autism, like, the kinds of ways it specifically shows and the behavioral patterns, and hearing you say Brun represents it well is good to hear. Maybe I'll learn more about autism as Brun's character is shown more, which would be cool.

[katsmeat]

Given her clothing style and nautical interests, I look forward to a character trying to call her "Captain Sweatpants".

(Assuming Big Bang Theory exists in the  QC universe.)

[Skewbrow]

Also, would I be right to say that Boston was a whaling port way back when?

May be? They did move a bit further South later.

[pwhodges]

Yes, probably. That would be British. Itself deriving from Old English. 

None the less, we don't call the headboard a bedhead either.

[Case]

...
And I bet Brun even knows where her towel is.

You sass she's a hoopy Frood?

Well, that explains some things ...

[TinPenguin]

Also, would I be right to say that Boston was a whaling port way back when?

May be? They did move a bit further South later.

Boring answer is yes, they were one of the last ports in the USA still whaling in the 20th century.

[JimC]

None the less, we don't call the headboard a bedhead either.

Its called bedhead where I am in England. Or maybe by my age group. Many dialects in Britain!

[pwhodges]

Heh!  My dictionaries agree with you... shows what I know; but I've never come across that usage.

[sitnspin]

Bedhead is a common term where is am from, Midwestern USA.

As my grandmother has said to me in the past: I never saw someone put much effort into looking like they don't put any effort into their hair.

[Method of Madness]

Yeah, that's what bedhead means to me too, not a headboard.

[comicalArchitect]

So who is Brun most likely to stay with, of the current cast? I can see Clinton asking around before eventually realizing that the only one left is Hannelore, and not only having to face his worst social situation, but having to give Hanners the hardest suggestion of her life.

[BenRG]

It's worth noting that several of Jeph's early sketches of Brun that he posted on his Twitter feed show her with a very angular character that could be Hanners.

[Thrillho]

Given her clothing style and nautical interests, I look forward to a character trying to call her "Captain Sweatpants".

(Assuming Big Bang Theory exists in the  QC universe.)

If there is a god in the real universe that won't happen.

[TinPenguin]

Our Lord Jephzibah is not so malevolent.

[Kugai]

Except when he is 

[TinPenguin]

Except then, yes. But otherwise!

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Like others, I want to know how to enunciate an ellipsis!

Not so hard if you can deal with umlauts.  Protip: It's all in the eyebrows.