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Bubbles and the Zen of being an AnthroPC AI

Faye has weird existentialist dreams

The Overmind Speaks

Corpse Witch is God

Brun is an Alien AnthroPc AI

Brun is God

Analysis of Clinton continues

Mystical Spathe Ham with Pizza and Lattes

Ohm mani Padma Ohm

Only The Architect knows

Mystical Purple Monkey Dishwasher

Jeph is God

Jeph is Life

[aliensporebomb]

But wait - what if Renee meets Clinton and decides he's the most adorable thing she's ever seen (unlikely but....)

I like the way she's drawn though!  This ought to be interesting.

[Skewbrow]

Does Renee's behavior towards Brun remind anyone else of Corpse Witch's behavior towards Bubbles?

I don't get the same vibe. Renee does appear to be jumping to conclusions. About Clinton as well as about how vulnerable Brun's difficulties in handling emotions make her. It is easy for us to dismiss her concerns about Clinton, because the way the story unfolded (which is something Renee did not see) he was painted as the good guy. OTOH we can safely assume that Renee knows more about Brun's history than what we have seen.  There may be incidents in Brun's past that make Renee's concerns very real/valid. She may still make wrong conclusions about how well Brun is judging Clinton's character, because she was not there. Anyway, she seems to genuinely care for her. We will see more when/if Brun gives a more detailed account of the night of the fire to her.

It could be argued that similarly Corpse Witch knows more than we do about Bubbles' personal history. But her callous retort to seeing Bubbles in distress painted a very different picture - CW has her own agenda that is not focusing on Bubbles' emotional well-being.

[KOK]

But wait - what if Renee meets Clinton and decides he's the most adorable thing she's ever seen (unlikely but....)

I like the way she's drawn though!  This ought to be interesting.

She is not bad, she is just drawn that way.

[katsmeat]

Just a shot in the dark: I think it might be interesting if Renee has her own reasons for being suspicious of a helpful stranger. It could make for an interesting story if Renee tries to tolerate Clinton for Brun's sake but is constantly flashing back or reliving abuse that she suffered for trusting the wrong person. Then it stops being the aggressive, obstructionist friend and starts being about a woman trying to handle her own demons whilst still trying to be a to a vulnerable friend.

Well I'm getting the vibe that Renee may be more messed-up than Brun.  if indeed Brun can be considered messed up at all - she simply has her own way of dealing with the world. 

Saying that, I could be reacting to her insistance on dumping on somebody we know to be fundamentally decent, if somewhat annoying at times.

[Corsair]

I disagree - Renee's reaction reminds me of classic narcissist control technique. It's more subtle than Corpse Witch's almost blatant evil, but Renee's behavior has a definite stink of manipulation to it. Could also just be being overprotective, but, well, when your reaction to someone telling you they made a friend other than you is to call him a creep and threaten him it really doesn't say good things about you to me.

[Tova]

Does Renee's behavior towards Brun remind anyone else of Corpse Witch's behavior towards Bubbles?

Not really, no.

Edit: replied before noticing there was a whole new page I hadn't even read yet.

[TinPenguin]

To me it's more reminiscent of Clinton's behaviour towards Claire. Well-meant, protective, but unsolicited and belittling.

[BenRG]

Which opens the door to a series of jokes where people who know Clinton and meet Renee and Brun remark about how this all seems so familiar, somehow.

[blue5]

Both Brun and Renee are messed up. Lets deconstruct, shall we?

Clinton just went in the pub for water, and she acted not only ignorant, but very disrespectful to a client. Water, or soda, if you patronize, her behavior was unbecoming. And all Clinton was trying to do was assist. By all rights, he could have just ups and rolled after the fire. He owed her nothing. But whatever issues she had she seems to be working on.

Renee, is borderline sociopath, paranoid and outright hostile. Faye has her issues, but even she has her crazy train limits. Everything she has said so far shows a deeply disturbed individual
I might even suspect an abusive relationship may even exist between Brun and Renee...interest wait and see situation

[Tanman]

I disliked Renee over the phone. Now that we've met her, my feelings have intensified.

STFU, Renee.

[comicalArchitect]

We're really starting to see what Angus meant.

(Also, it really doesn't make sense that Renee would be Brun's social worker or therapist, given that she was working in a bakery not too long ago.)

[Thrillho]

Renee, is borderline sociopath

Where the hell are you getting that from?

[jheartney]

(Also, it really doesn't make sense that Renee would be Brun's social worker or therapist, given that she was working in a bakery not too long ago.)

My assumption at the time was that it was a different Renee.

I think we are all in danger of doing to Renee what Renee did to Clinton: jumping to the harshest possible conclusions based on scant evidence. Renee might well have good reasons (rooted in history) to protect Brun from strangers. We know very little about either character's past.

[DSL]

I think we are all in danger of doing to Renee what Renee did to Clinton: jumping to the harshest possible conclusions based on scant evidence.

In an online forum? InconCEIVable, I say!

[jheartney]

On a slightly different tack, I wanted to say that panel 2 of today's comic is a nice touch - Renee is literally smothering Brun. The little "oof" says a lot quickly.

[blue5]

Renee, is borderline sociopath

Where the hell are you getting that from?

Its an easy leap actually. Over-possessive and putting in disturbing thoughts into someone else head. Manipulation of a situation to further Brun's feeling of self doubt. Yeah, Renee is riding the crazy train bigtime. We are talking about not looking at the situation a normal person would view it.

[Method of Madness]

Yeah, Renee is riding the crazy train bigtime...We are talking about not looking at the situation a normal person would view it.

So not "normal" means "crazy"? Please rethink this, or you will not do well here.

[blue5]

Yeah, Renee is riding the crazy train bigtime...We are talking about not looking at the situation a normal person would view it.

So not "normal" means "crazy"? Please rethink this, or you will not do well here.

Rethink? Her behaviors reflect someone who is disturbed. Perhaps I should have said "sane"

[chaospersonified]

Because being protective is abnormal, right. I see nothing in today's strip to suggest Renee's making any especially big leaps. She hugged her friend. She voiced concern that could be based off past experience. We don't know if she's been hurt before in similar situations, or if she knows Brun has, but she's acting like one of those two things has happend and she doesn't want a repeat.

[blue5]

I didn't mean to come off as antagonizing. Its just from her her first interaction, or introduction, she came off as disrespectful. Clinton isn't the most likeable person, but nothing warranted her attitude and threats. Today's interaction confirmed her poor and possibly toxic attitude

[USS Martenclaire]

Hrmmm. I had someone behave toward me in much the same way as Renee views Clinton. It almost cost me the friendship of someone important to me.

Even if Renee were to meet Clinton in person, I don't think there's anything he could say that would reduce her hostility toward him. She doesn't trust him but critically does not *want* to trust him either.

[Milayna]

I'm going to be cautious about Renee until she meets Clinton and/or we get more information about her behavior...

The biggest thing that makes her suspect imo is how she up and hugs Brun which looks like it makes Brun uncomfortable. If her concern was genuinely looking out for Brun I would expect her to ask or give warning before immediately smothering her.

It looks to me like Renee just assumes that she can do that, and Brun probably knows her well enough that she isn't ESPECIALLY bothered or is accustomed to that, but it's still basically an act of entitlement to Brun's space and person.

Even if she's well-meaning, and her fears are reasonably founded, I think that Renee oversteps her boundaries, and Brun is just used to it or doesn't know how to enforce them.

[themacnut]

The real question is of course if Renee would be as paranoid about a girl helping Brun?

Probably not - while there are indeed predatory women out there, someone overprotective like Renee is more likely to be worried about men; most rapists and serial killers are men after all. Plus if, as some suspect, Brun was taken advantage of in the past and this is part of the reason for Renee's overprotectiveness, it was most likely a man who took advantage of her. Or of Renee herself, if she was the one preyed on.

Renee's snap judgment of Clinton as a predator (even in the face of his helpfulness) does annoy the hell out of me, as I have been on the receiving end of such treatment as well. But I have to remind myself that SOME men ARE real bastards and would take advantage of someone in Brun's position in horrible ways. And one often can't tell ahead of time which men are the bastards and which ones are decent (the bastards can be really good at acting decent and the decent men can be awkward), so I can understand some women taking the position that a man she doesn't already know well is a bastard until proven otherwise beyond the shadow of a doubt.

I don't like it, at all, but I can understand it.

[hedgie]

I certainly won't blame any woman for being wary of men, especially unknown ones.  It's self-preservation.  It sucks (as I have stated upthread) being on the receiving end, but I'm wary of my *own* gender, especially younger guys because of the propensity for violence.  Between what I went through when I was younger, and my various anxiety disorders, I can't help but be.

[Is it cold in here?]

Re: father figure: how about parental figure? Being a strong and grounding presence could just as well be a mother.

Absolutely. The only good reason to think "father figure" is that it's what the Pugnacious Peach is missing in her life.

Being a strong and grounding presence is only part of being a parental figure, though. A parental figure is one with two or three decades more life experience than you, who can give you advice which you realize years later was sound.

Bubbles has some life experiences that Faye doesn't but at a guess Bubbles is in the AI equivalent of a human's early 20s.

And, welcome, Corsair!

[DSL]

I'm going to fall back on what Jeph said about his creation a long time ago: No one in the strip is 100 percent right or good; no one in the strip is 100 percent wrong or bad. (Beatrice was pushing it, but even she had her redeeming qualities. Quality. Moment.)

I'll keep that in mind when evaluating this new Renee.

[blue5]

There are people who are naturally cautious because of upbringing or previous negative experiences. Some guys can be badly, but then again women do it too. Caution is fine, but lashing out is a poor way of dealing with things. Without understanding or stepping back to understand a situation creates more enemies than friends. There runs a risk of generalizing all people based on the actions of a minority of a gender. 

[MooskiNet]

There runs a risk of generalizing all people based on the actions of a minority of a gender.

And quite honestly, I'm good with that.  If giving up my cis straight white middle class U.S. southern male privilege for a while is all I have to do so someone else feels more comfortable, I'll just have to cope.

[blue5]

There runs a risk of generalizing all people based on the actions of a minority of a gender.

And quite honestly, I'm good with that.  If giving up my cis straight white middle class U.S. southern male privilege for a while is all I have to do so someone else feels more comfortable, I'll just have to cope.

Everybody is different. And I respect your position. I see absolutely nothing wrong wit a person being cis or white. There is a myth of male privilege but that is a discussion for another day. You are the person you are and your uniqueness is something that makes you who you are. I am non white, but being from a multi racial and cultural society educates that everyone is unique and deal with the hand they are dealt.

[osaka]

If this is indeed the Renee from TSB, it's nice to see that there's more to her than "Black Faye" to put it bluntly. Even if she comes across as pretty unlikable to some (including me).

I do understand the whole being protective thing, but we should remember that one of the things that survived the fire is Brun's harpoon. I'm sure she'd have used it if Clinton / anybody tried anything dumb.

[Random832]

Does Renee's behavior towards Brun remind anyone else of Corpse Witch's behavior towards Bubbles?

No. Because I think Renee's comes from an area of genuine concern.

And from the way you said that I infer you do not think Corpse Witch's behavior comes from genuine concern. However, apart from that difference in presumed motive (a difference for which you have not stated any objective basis), the similarity is still there.

[KOK]

I'm going to fall back on what Jeph said about his creation a long time ago: No one in the strip is 100 percent right or good; no one in the strip is 100 percent wrong or bad. (Beatrice was pushing it, but even she had her redeeming qualities. Quality. Moment.)

I'll keep that in mind when evaluating this new Renee.

How about Vespavenger?

[Thrillho]

Does Renee's behavior towards Brun remind anyone else of Corpse Witch's behavior towards Bubbles?

No. Because I think Renee's comes from an area of genuine concern.

And from the way you said that I infer you do not think Corpse Witch's behavior comes from genuine concern. However, apart from that difference in presumed motive (a difference for which you have not stated any objective basis), the similarity is still there.

Yes, but my point was that I felt the difference in altruism level was too obvious to ignore.

[Neko_Ali]

I'm going to fall back on what Jeph said about his creation a long time ago: No one in the strip is 100 percent right or good; no one in the strip is 100 percent wrong or bad. (Beatrice was pushing it, but even she had her redeeming qualities. Quality. Moment.)

I'll keep that in mind when evaluating this new Renee.

How about Vespavenger?

Vespavenger used to volunteer at a shelter for homeless puppies.

[Larm Hargraven]

While Renee may have reason to be suspicious, I think it is safe to say her suspicions are a bit too far. I've had a friendship like this when struggling with my autism spectrum diagnosis, who meant well, but ended up making the friendship very toxic and abusive. I was not allowed to trust anyone but them and had to get their permission first on who I could consider a friend or foe. In hindsight, I still see it as one of the most toxic relationships I had in my life since I lived in constant anxiety on any possible new friend being a problem because the protective friend told me to be weary of them. It took a long time for me to get self-confidence in myself on how to interact with day-to-day strangers.

Now I'm not going to conclude Renee is that, because we have to see more of her first. But I will say this is what the vibe is coming off from, and it's not too uncommon. Sometimes people have this need to BE the one to protect another so hard that they tunnel vision and forget that each person is unique and each case is different. Straight hostility will cause more harm than good for someone in Brun's situation, if she's on the autism spectrum. This is just coming from a personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

[DSL]

I'm going to fall back on what Jeph said about his creation a long time ago: No one in the strip is 100 percent right or good; no one in the strip is 100 percent wrong or bad. (Beatrice was pushing it, but even she had her redeeming qualities. Quality. Moment.)

I'll keep that in mind when evaluating this new Renee.

How about Vespavenger?

Some of my fellow men are @$$holes who need a good whuppin'. Dispute her generalization and her methods, but she wasn't wrong about that part.

[freeman]

This page does not pass Bechdel test.

[Gyrre]

If QC ever goes Full Anime i'm not accepting anything less than bubbles opening up and Faye climbing inside her and they combine their power and fight as a team.

That'd probably only work if Bubbles had a transtector.

Now... am I the only one who wants to see Bubbles do a Halo-style one-woman army action scene to save the day in some future arc?

How about as part of some sort of simulation for therapy?

[Gyrre]

It's the reptoids, obviously.  Denver isn't built on itself || loam, and THEY live underground until they master their shapeshifting abilities and can pass for human.

Huh.
I thought they did maintenance on the MIB train tunnels and just had to slap on a Trying Human device to appear human.

[ankhtahr]

To me it really seems like Renee means well, because she's aware of Brun's vulnerabilities, but in doing so revokes her autonomy. We shall see how that plays out. Hopefully she'll realise that soon.

[Thrillho]

There is a myth of male privilege but that is a discussion for another day.

You must be joking.

[pwhodges]

There is a myth of male privilege but that is a discussion for another day.

Here is that discussion - it might be prudent for you to read it before saying things like that in this forum.

[jwhouk]

Same piercings, same skin tone, same name. I don't have any reason to think it's a different Renee.

Yes, my only proble is if enough QC time has passed for her to grow such long hair.

One word: Dora.

[Gyrre]

Re: father figure: how about parental figure? Being a strong and grounding presence could just as well be a mother.

Renee: she's about as infuriating as the time we met her.  I get that she's afraid for Brun, but Brun has to make her own decisions on who to trust, and her criteria are pretty good - he was helpful, he didn't try anything, and he respected her wishes. Renee acts like this kind of paranoia is normal, but it really isn't; and she doesn't help at all calling Clinton a creep or maybe-murderer. She could help Brun hammer out a road map on what to do next, or what to do if she's ever in a similar situation again, but nah, she likes Brun depending on her...

The subtext here is that at some point, Brun's been taken advantage of. If, as some on here have speculated, she's on the autism spectrum, she might be quite easy to take advantage of if she fails to understand threats or subtext or sarcasm or all sorts of intonations and emotions.

What if Renee were the one who was taken advantage of at some point?

[jwhouk]

...by Angus?

[blue5]

I read it and perception of privilage isn't actually privilage. Like i said, a discussion for another day. I don't think i attacked anyone. I simply was relating that the renee character sounds very entitled and jeph's writing continues to be impressive in giving the characters dimensions which enhances the quality of the comic.

Think about it, how many comics can actually engage a debate based on the characters?

[MooskiNet]

I read it and perception of privilage isn't actually privilage. Like i said, a discussion for another day. I don't think i attacked anyone. I simply was relating that the renee character sounds very entitled and jeph's writing continues to be impressive in giving the characters dimensions which enhances the quality of the comic.

Without getting this moved to Discuss (hopefully), I would submit that privilege is not as easily seen by those who possess it as by those who do not.

Similarly, it is much easier to feel attacked than to feel you are attacking.

Think about it, how many comics can actually engage a debate based on the characters?

Yeah, it's cool like that.

[Tova]

Does anyone else see the irony in leaping to the conclusion that Renee is a bad person because she leaped to the conclusion that Clinton is a bad person?

The difference, of course, is that we know Clinton is in fact a good person, whereas we've seen and heard very little about Renee so far (admittedly negative).

[hedgie]

One also has to remember that even though he has made a lot of progress in the way that he carries himself, Clin-ton *can* come across as creepy.  His enthusiasm WRT AI and antro-PCs made his meeting Hanners cause him to get Marten to grab a sword.  And that was getting off easy compared to his introduction to Momo. 

His character has evolved since then, thankfully, but he doesn't always make the best first impressions.  I guess that holds even if he has never actually met the person.

[Zastie]

Mine...

Or did you mean the empty sea painting? I think the ship went down with the bar.

O I meant the one in panel two of today's (or yesterday's, depending on where you live?) comic (with Renee). Though that's a really cool painting and super similar.. was Jeph like.. inspired by it or something? Makes me confuzzled. @_@