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He'll have words with the Praeses and find that he sorely underestimated them.

The Praeses will find they sorely underestimated the Earth dwellers.

Pate and the Praeses will reach a mutually beneficial deal since they have the same interests in mind.

Pate and Church will get sucked out an airlock because Ardent subconsciously programmed the spaceship's computer.

They'll be intercepted by the Mooninites who will book Alice and Gavia for crimes against the moon.

[plusorminus]

A moot point now, but the look Ellie gives Lurch before she answers Pate is interesting. It's hard to know if she's afraid of him or wary. She didn't seem to want to offer up the info that there were visitors to the site, but that look she gives Lurch makes me think that possibly she withheld info, maybe inadvertently, once before and there were reprisals.

At any rate, do we know is a higher-level of being than Sedna? She doesn't say Lurch is "my level bad news" she says "our level." Sedna also seemed amazed that Alice wanted to run when there were two of them and one Lurch.

I don't think that Lurch is pulling the strings. This is seeming more and more to me like a Star Trek episode where a deadly probe that was corrupted during its time in space didn't destroy the Enterprise because Kirk had a similar name to its creator and he was able to control it until they were able to figure out how to neutralize it when it inevitably got wise. I think Lurch might actually be an imperfect form of Alice (and Sedna) who were utilized as canon fodder during the wars because they were expendable, but strong, ruthless and utterly without conscience. Post-Blink, that sort of being would be very, very dangerous. It's possible Lurch was created or programmed by a Pate ancestor or someone he believes to have been one. It's also possible that Lurch might think Pate is his creator and he must obey him.

[Method of Madness]

I think "our level" just meant "god-level", even if there are various levels of gods.

[pwhodges]

... Lurch ...

Do you have any reason for calling Church "Lurch", or do you simply prefer not to use the name that his creator bestowed on him and which everyone else uses?  (And does this relate to your appearing to query the name "Corpse Witch" in the other comic?)

[Method of Madness]

It's close enough and we all know what they mean, what's the issue? Plus Church is his last name, for all we know his name could be Lurch Church.

And Corpse Witch hasn't been confirmed in comic

[Zebediah]

Unless you count the title of the strip where she was introduced: "Her name is CORPSE WITCH"

If that's not canon enough for you I don't know what is.

[Method of Madness]

It is for me, but it's nice to know I don't have the strictest canon requirements.

[pwhodges]

It's close enough and we all know what they mean, what's the issue?

So we're happy with people writing Jeff Jacks or Martin now, are we?  Sorry, but I'm not going down that road - and in any case Lurch is not simply a misspelling of Church.

[Method of Madness]

That's not the same. People were calling him Lurch before his name was revealed, so it still works as a nickname.

[pwhodges]

Ah - Oops, I missed that.  Sorry!

[Samik]

We're forgetting something.

The blink happened thousands of years ago. Just like Alice has been around all that time, Mr. Church has to have been too. And he certainly wasn't under Pate's control all that time.

This suggests two possibilities:
1.) Church has some limitation or throttling that compels him to either have a master or need to collaborate to accomplish what he wants to accomplish, and moves from partnership to partnership as the other parties age/die, or
2.) Pate came into possession of him somehow. For example, maybe he was deactivated and stored, and Pate discovered him, and was able to adjust his programming in some way before activating him.

I like possibility #2. It also fits well with Pate's archaeological endeavors. I'll bet he's found more than a couple interesting and useful curiosities.

[cesium133]

Possibility #2 sounds very likely. It may even be hinted at here, where Mr. Church is shown looking at Pate as he talks about the power that may be obtained from those archeological endeavors.

Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken, Church has never spoken since he's arrived. If he is a revived AI or something from millennia ago, then that would make sense. If he's only recently been revived, he might not speak the language that everyone else there speaks. Languages change drastically over the course of thousands of years, particularly in this scenario where communication over long distances appears to be limited.

[plusorminus]

... Lurch ...

Do you have any reason for calling Church "Lurch", or do you simply prefer not to use the name that his creator bestowed on him and which everyone else uses?  (And does this relate to your appearing to query the name "Corpse Witch" in the other comic?)

It's .... a joke. You can feel quite free to block me so you can be spared any more of my attempts at humor.

And I don't understand your second question and feel like it's off topic here. You don't care for me or my posts, it seems. It's all good. The block button is a handy device.

[plusorminus]

... Lurch ...

Do you have any reason for calling Church "Lurch", or do you simply prefer not to use the name that his creator bestowed on him and which everyone else uses?  (And does this relate to your appearing to query the name "Corpse Witch" in the other comic?)

It's .... a joke. You can feel quite free to block me so you can be spared any more of my attempts at humor.

And I don't understand your second question and feel like it's off topic here. You don't care for me or my posts, it seems. It's all good. The block button is a handy device.

We're forgetting something.

The blink happened thousands of years ago. Just like Alice has been around all that time, Mr. Church has to have been too. And he certainly wasn't under Pate's control all that time.

This suggests two possibilities:
1.) Church has some limitation or throttling that compels him to either have a master or need to collaborate to accomplish what he wants to accomplish, and moves from partnership to partnership as the other parties age/die, or
2.) Pate came into possession of him somehow. For example, maybe he was deactivated and stored, and Pate discovered him, and was able to adjust his programming in some way before activating him.

I like possibility #2. It also fits well with Pate's archaeological endeavors. I'll bet he's found more than a couple interesting and useful curiosities.

I think it is almost certainly option #2. Without his glasses, Pate looks much younger than when he first appeared. Unless he really is an AI or an enhanced human, there's nothing much about him, physically, that seems to scream "Choose me as your leader!" Yet people follow him unquestioningly. If he inherited Lurch somehow, then that would be a huge motivator for people to obey him and for his man to stay at his side and do his bidding.

[brasca]

Possibility #2 sounds very likely. It may even be hinted at here, where Mr. Church is shown looking at Pate as he talks about the power that may be obtained from those archeological endeavors.

Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken, Church has never spoken since he's arrived. If he is a revived AI or something from millennia ago, then that would make sense. If he's only recently been revived, he might not speak the language that everyone else there speaks. Languages change drastically over the course of thousands of years, particularly in this scenario where communication over long distances appears to be limited.

That's why Pate reminds me of Alex Rosewater from Big O.  He's a rich and powerful ruler of a city obsessed with finding out how to operate old technology.  Quite possibly he found Church buried somewhere.  He may have been damaged hence the eye that is probably fake since it didn't turn red when he attacked Ellie.  Once he got him operational he had the perfect enforcer at his beck and call.  It's also possible that an ancestor of Pate recovered Church and he's been with the family for generations. 

[BenRG]

New comic up!

No great revelations other than proof that Alice can crack 3-foot thick concrete with one punch.

I've just got this horrible feeling that Pate's scheme will go exactly according to his plan and it won't work out well for him at all. As a certain Vulcan said to the man who cuckolded him at his wedding: "I believe that you will shortly find that desiring and possessing are very different experiences."

[brasca]

Why would that be a horrible feeling?  Pate's plans falling through seem like a good thing for most everyone involved. 

[BenRG]

Because when getting what he thought he wanted goes wrong for him, it's going to catch everyone else in the blast radius.

[Tova]

Pate has gone to some trouble to procure Alice's help, so I can only assume either that Church cannot in fact get through that barrier without repercussions or at least some degree of risk to himself, or that Pate needs Alice's help with whatever he expects to find down there.

We'll find out soon enough.

[retrosteve]

Pate has gone to some trouble to procure Alice's help, so I can only assume either that Church cannot in fact get through that barrier without repercussions or at least some degree of risk to himself, or that Pate needs Alice's help with whatever he expects to find down there.

I think Pate needs Ardent's help with whatever he finds down there. He needs Alice to be a good obedient little weapon is all.
There could be any number of reasons he chooses to have Alice go first, starting from the one he gives, down through "he wants Church fresher when the bunker busting is done" and "Alice is just better at it, is all", to "Church has some reason not to do it".

[jheartney]

I'm guessing Ellie's gruesome death must be general knowledge by now, meaning the crowd of bystanders at the top of the pit must know that Pate/Church did it. Given that Ellie was running the dig, she must have been an important person in this community. Wouldn't at least some local folks be upset at her outright murder? Is Pate so certain that there's nobody with a rifle and sight up there? True, they couldn't get Church. But if Pate is baseline, then a bullet will take him out, and Church hasn't shown he's fast enough to stop one.

[Samik]

I'm guessing Ellie's gruesome death must be general knowledge by now, meaning the crowd of bystanders at the top of the pit must know that Pate/Church did it. Given that Ellie was running the dig, she must have been an important person in this community. Wouldn't at least some local folks be upset at her outright murder? Is Pate so certain that there's nobody with a rifle and sight up there? True, they couldn't get Church. But if Pate is baseline, then a bullet will take him out, and Church hasn't shown he's fast enough to stop one.

Remember that these people are technologically just about turn-of-last-century*. Alice is a witch, and Gavia and Church are demons. Doesn't mean there won't be a brave soul willing to take a shot at a demon-master, but it's probably not as clear cut an option as it would be to someone with a 2016 level of understanding.

(click to show/hide)

*If that. Many of them probably don't understand much of the technology they do have, since it wasn't their heritage that developed it.

[BenRG]

Or, to quote 'The Usual Suspects' - "How could I shoot at the Devil? What if I missed?"

[brasca]

I'm guessing Ellie's gruesome death must be general knowledge by now, meaning the crowd of bystanders at the top of the pit must know that Pate/Church did it. Given that Ellie was running the dig, she must have been an important person in this community. Wouldn't at least some local folks be upset at her outright murder? Is Pate so certain that there's nobody with a rifle and sight up there? True, they couldn't get Church. But if Pate is baseline, then a bullet will take him out, and Church hasn't shown he's fast enough to stop one.

Pate probably made an off panel speech to everyone and gave them the choice between pointlessly taking revenge and dying horribly in the process or reaping the rewards of what's inside the bunker after he retrieves his rocket ship.  Since the archaeophiles are scientists in a fashion they're probably smart enough not to seek revenge on him or the recent visitors.  Of course Pate may not be entirely sure of this since Ellie seemed too smart to attack Church even after seeing what damage he did to Sedna which is why he might want Alice to break into the bunker while Church guards him as well as his other captives.  We don't see them at the bottom of the pit, but I suspect Ardent, Gavia, and Sedna are up at the top watching down from the rim while Church keeps an eye on them and anyone else who might blame them for attracting Pate and Church to their dig site and seek to harm them.

Leaving the others alone might be a good opportunity to strategize.  Church may or may not have super sensitive hearing, but perhaps Sedna could exchange some notes that might reveal her species weakness that could be exploited by someone unassuming.   

[Kugai]

Here's an interesting thought, what if that's not a Bunker at all, but an underground community of technically advanced survivors who have lived closed off from the world since 'The Blink'

[BenRG]

Does Jeph like Fallout? It occurs to me that it might be a pastiche of one of the more horrible Vault-Tec social experiments. Will they suddenly be knee-deep in homicidal identical redheaded clones, all giggling and shouting 'Clinton! Clinton!"

[HiFranc]

I suspect that the reason for using Alice is to scare the people who live there.  People could rationalise that Sedna was injured because she was caught by surprise.  However, if Alice shows that she's scared of the duo enough to cooperate then any resistance from them is futile.

[Verteiron]

He may be making Alice do it for exactly the reason he stated: to see what she's capable of. Collecting immortals via blackmail/threats/whatever means he's using on Church may be his hobby, and Alice is simply his latest acquisition.

[Tova]

Yes, you could well be right. I had forgotten when I previously posted that it is really Ardent's help that Pate is after.

[Skewbrow]

Alice punching her way in may be just Jeph running with the joke. And probably also to show the locals who's the boss. It might also be an opportunity to size up Alice's abilities so that Mr Church has a better idea what he is up against this time (assuming Pate does not have perfect intelligence on Alice already).

May be Jeph will finally give Mr Church a line or two? Church and Alice tossing the pieces of concrete out of the pit will give them an opportunity for a little heart-to-heart chat? Naaah! More likely it will go like

 Alice: "Why do you work for this guy?"
 Church: <shrug>

I very much like Brasca's theory that Mr Church has worked for the Pate clan for as long as he cares to remember. May be even ever since the blink.

[BenRG]

If Church were asked why he's working for Pate, I suspect that his response will be one word: 'Order'. Pate stands for a restoration of strong, intrusive and controlling government, something for which Church was made to protect. He may (if he is talkative) reproach Alice and Sedna for forgetting their 'directives' in this area.

[TinPenguin]

I like the lack of a 'BAM', indicating the casual apathy of the action.

Also, both Church and Pate have turned their backs to Alice, yet she makes no attempt to take advantage of that. She has, for now, given up.

[BenRG]

Also, both Church and Pate have turned their backs to Alice, yet she makes no attempt to take advantage of that. She has, for now, given up.

No, rather I think that, given what she knows about Church's reaction times and likely sensory acuity, she's not going to try anything pointless and self-destructive. She's biding her time whilst trying to work out a plan. How well she does so remains to be seen; Alice doesn't strike me as the sort of personality who thinks ahead particularly well. However, she will be attempting to come up with a plan.

[TinPenguin]

She's biding her time whilst trying to work out a plan.

That sounds a lot like a PR version of giving up for now.

[Tova]

Also, both Church and Pate have turned their backs to Alice, yet she makes no attempt to take advantage of that. She has, for now, given up.

It doesn't mean that. It just means that she isn't stupid. She isn't fast enough to take advantage of it, as we've already found out, and she's not keen on getting Gavia's arms broken.

[brasca]

If Church were asked why he's working for Pate, I suspect that his response will be one word: 'Order'. Pate stands for a restoration of strong, intrusive and controlling government, something for which Church was made to protect. He may (if he is talkative) reproach Alice and Sedna for forgetting their 'directives' in this area.

In Sedna's case that may be true, but Alice has been keeping order in her village so if that is their directive she's still fulfilling it. 

Alice punching her way in may be just Jeph running with the joke. And probably also to show the locals who's the boss. It might also be an opportunity to size up Alice's abilities so that Mr Church has a better idea what he is up against this time (assuming Pate does not have perfect intelligence on Alice already).

Considering that Church was able to outrun Alice and grip her arm hard enough to cause discomfort I think Pate knows everything he needs to know about her abilities.  Having Alice break through the bunker may be partially a power play to demonstrate that he is the boss, to keep Church in a place where he can keep an eye on his captives, and possibly because there is some trap left behind from the ancient past that could neutralize an immortal.  Perhaps that's how Pate or one of his ancestors discovered Church.  They never could figure out what deactivated him, but were concerned the process might be repeated.   

[Is it cold in here?]

Just how far would Alice be knocked backward by Newton's laws?

Could she even get the swing going in the first place? If her arm is going down with enough momentum to have that effect then the rest of her is moving upward with the same amount of momentum.

A running start on a vertical wall would make more sense.

Whatever's inside the bunker may be damaged by now.

[Neko_Ali]

Physics go right out the window when dealing with super humans like we are seeing here. So I wouldn't worry to much about what is logically possible. That leads to rather boring stories. There is nothing about Alice, Sedna or Church that would work with the knowledge we have of matter, energy and physics. The same goes to a lesser degree with the kids' nanobots. At the very least they should be consuming massive amounts of food to take in the materials and energy they need to keep their nanos running, or get energy from some outside source. Gavia more than Ardent before she lost her nanos because she used them constantly.

Or to put it in the words of (the slightly altered) MST3K: "If you're wondering how they eat and breath And other science facts, Just repeat to yourself "It's just a comic, I should really just relax."

[FunkyTuba]

Follow me here...

While obviously higher-level/more enhanced than they are, Pate described Church as being "one of [Alice and Sedna's]" kind. That would imply to me that Church does have his limits. He could probably move fast enough to stop a bullet. What about simultaneous bullets? While Sedna and Alice both attack at once? I'm curious to see what Church would do about that, possibly his programming/orientation/directive would pick up Pate and bug out beyond range of danger.

[Thrudd]

Stepping back a bit, I have to ask - why is everyone assuming Pate is baseline?
As far as I have seen there is nothing pointing either yay or nay.
Even if a sociopath he either has 100% trust in churches abilities (doubtful) or knows that he was in no personal danger in the first place.
If he was then there would be a #3) Pate was Churches commander before the blink.
Officer types don't need the firepower of front line combat units, just the survival ability and much better strategic and tactical skills.
As for the counter question, but Alice didn't recognize him as a Church level threat. Maybe she didn't have much, if any interaction with the officer types, or they are very difficult to differentiate from baseline except under extreme circumstances like being shot in the face at point blank. (man that would sting)

[Neko_Ali]

There is no reason to assume Pate is anything other than a baseline human though, either. Sociopathy and megalomania also tend to come with a supreme level of (over)confidence.  He clearly trusts that Church can take care of any threat that Alice and Sedna can pose. And he has not shown any signs of being anything other than just a smart human. The only knowledge he's shown outside the normal is about the existence of the Prases and the space colonies. And that's something he could have found out through Church or other sources.

So basically, there's no reason to assume he's anything other than human because we've seen no signs of it. There's no reason to assume he's not super human, and just hasn't shown any abilities yet either.

[brasca]

Stepping back a bit, I have to ask - why is everyone assuming Pate is baseline?
As far as I have seen there is nothing pointing either yay or nay.
Even if a sociopath he either has 100% trust in churches abilities (doubtful) or knows that he was in no personal danger in the first place.
If he was then there would be a #3) Pate was Churches commander before the blink.
Officer types don't need the firepower of front line combat units, just the survival ability and much better strategic and tactical skills.
As for the counter question, but Alice didn't recognize him as a Church level threat. Maybe she didn't have much, if any interaction with the officer types, or they are very difficult to differentiate from baseline except under extreme circumstances like being shot in the face at point blank. (man that would sting)

There is a possibility, but it's just that until proven otherwise.  I've theorized that he might be originally from the space colonies and was either exiled, marooned, or left of his own free will and set up operations in that city he controls, but if that's the case that only makes him as special as Ardent or Gavia and could still be easily killed by one of the immortals.  He could also be an immortal that Alice and Sedna never met that might even be more powerful than Church, but chooses to let his underlings do all of the work.  If so he may have plotting a very long time to leave Earth and now he has the key. 

[retrosteve]

Or to put it in the words of (the slightly altered) MST3K: "If you're wondering how they eat and breath And other science facts, Just repeat to yourself "It's just a comic, I should really just relax."

I should really just relax, but I have a pedantic need to correct your "breath" (a noun, rhymes with death) to "breathe", (a verb, rhymes with "seethe"). Joel and the bots would point at me and laugh.

More seriously, I think it's important to keep some level of technology-believability in the explanations, since without it there's no point in even speculating about the story. Even a good Fantasy universe has laws of physics, and a SF universe even more so. If Jeph breaks them, I will choose to believe (until proven otherwise) that he's got a science or at least attempted science explanation.

[retrosteve]

Pate was Churches commander before the blink.
Officer types don't need the firepower of front line combat units, just the survival ability and much better strategic and tactical skills.
As for the counter question, but Alice didn't recognize him as a Church level threat. Maybe she didn't have much, if any interaction with the officer types, or they are very difficult to differentiate from baseline except under extreme circumstances

The combat units are still organic (at least in brain, since they are not AIs) so there may be no way at all to recognize them until you see how they act or move. Church gave himself away early by suddenly appearing behind Alice when he had been nowhere nearby a fraction of a second ago.

[JimC]

Stepping back a bit, I have to ask - why is everyone assuming Pate is baseline?

There is no reason to assume Pate is anything other than a baseline human though, either.

Sure, but isn't amusing ourselves with probably-shortly-to-be-outdated speculation much of what forums like this are for? I quite like the super warrior officer idea, although I should have thought in practice a less nerdy look would be advantageous, if only for interacting with humans.

[Tova]

I like the lack of a 'BAM', indicating the casual apathy of the action.

There is actually a large BAM in light yellow behind the scene.

BAM

[TinPenguin]

Good spot, I hadn't picked that out. Still markedly muted for such a mighty blow.

[JimC]

I know I shouldn't be picky, because it is a spectacular image, but if I were interested in the contents of the bunker I wouldn't bash through the roof and have huge lumps of concrete fall through and land on whatever is inside.

[ConmanTheBarbarian]

Any real bunker would have rebar. Lots of rebar. I hope Jeph doesn't leave them out...

[BenRG]

After five millennia, the 'rebar' may have been little more than soft channels of rust.

[FunkyTuba]

Stepping back a bit, I have to ask - why is everyone assuming Pate is baseline?
As far as I have seen there is nothing pointing either yay or nay.

One thing I think points that way: the non-baseline humans we've seen (Ardent, Alice, Gavia, Sedna, probably Church are the only ones I think are confirmed) are all physically fit. Pate is kinda dumpy. Also none of them wear glasses, Pate does. I think this would imply that being non-baseline carries with it a basic level of feature correction before whatever augmentation is added.