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Hanners descending into Looney Tunes-esque attempts to get rid of Tilly

13 (29.5%)

Tilly turns out to be worse than Cosette and burns down Coffee of Doom

5 (11.4%)

Tilly sits in the corner of the coffeeshop for the day and sniffs tea

6 (13.6%)

The non-continuing adventures to buy Hanners new phone

2 (4.5%)

The story switches to Brun browsing for clocks.

4 (9.1%)

The QC version of Single White Female, but plays out like Home Alone

3 (6.8%)

Hanners breaks out the ultimate weapon. Tilly has to spend 15 minutes with...Pintsize!

8 (18.2%)

Pintsize eating birdseed

3 (6.8%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Voting closed: 25 Nov 2017, 11:03

[de_la_Nae]

I thought the last strip could put an end to the deep analysis of Tilly's acts and motivations. Oh, boy, how I was wrong...

I'll be back in a week or two to see where it went.

You aren't in this subforum much are you?

[de_la_Nae]

I mean *I'm* not in this subforum much, partially because I don't have the patience for the micro-examination that people here seem to enjoy.

[JimC]

But it is completely impossible to choose to be ignorant of something,

Debatable. I choose to be ignorant of the subtleties of "real" coffee. I made a conscious decision not to become au fait with the varieties of coffee types, preparation and all the rest of it. I have an educated palate when it comes to quite enough things already thanks, so I stick to a brand of instant coffee I have found I like, served black. I am vaguely aware there are subtleties way beyond my ken, but that's as far as it goes. I have only the vaguest of clues what all that latty, mocky etc stuff is about, and the one time I was dragged into a St*****ks for an out of office meeting I had not a clue what to order (although I am vaguely aware that St*****ks is to coffee as McMorons is to burgers...).

[de_la_Nae]

Case if I was to ascribe total innocence to Gyrre, I would say they *really* fucked up how quote tags work.
I don't know beyond all doubt that we can do that, as I don't know Gyrre from Richard Spencer. But I mean probably.

[dutchrvl]

But it is completely impossible to choose to be ignorant of something,

Debatable. I choose to be ignorant of the subtleties of "real" coffee. I made a conscious decision not to become au fait with the varieties of coffee types, preparation and all the rest of it. I have an educated palate when it comes to quite enough things already thanks, so I stick to a brand of instant coffee I have found I like, served black. I am vaguely aware there are subtleties way beyond my ken, but that's as far as it goes. I have only the vaguest of clues what all that latty, mocky etc stuff is about, and the one time I was dragged into a St*****ks for an out of office meeting I had not a clue what to order (although I am vaguely aware that St*****ks is to coffee as McMorons is to burgers...).

I think what you mean is that you can choose to remain ignorant by not seeking out information. You cannot, however, choose to be ignorant. You either know or you don't. In other words, just like you cannot choose to be ignorant about coffee (at this point in time), you also cannot choose to be knowledgeable about it (at this point in time), only to become knowledgeable.

Edit: yes, I know that is semantic and I know that how you used the terms is how most people use them colloquially, but that does not make it entirely correct.

[HornedOwl]

I think it was the Avalon forum (dear God, I'm old) which had the rule of no speculating on future events because the Author would turn around and take the option no one expected.

So instead, a thought; Beatrice is manipulative and ruthless and you don't get to where she is without being either, but to manipulate someone requires knowing that person. Furthermore, Hannelore is the only person in the world Beatrice has any kind of affection for. We also know Beatrice doesn't suffer fools.

So to me, the question we should be asking isn't why isn't Tilly respecting Hannelore's wishes, but why would Beatrice, a known ruthless manipulator, send a fool to Hannelore, the only person Beatrice cares for in any way, in the first place?

[Mordhaus]

The funniest thing about this is that 106 miles is basically like a short trip when you live in a larger state (Texas). For many years, I used to drive 110 miles a day just to get to work (55 each way).

When we go to the beach here, it's around 250 miles from my location. That's a day trip, 4hrs there, spend the day at the beach, 4 hrs back.

[Penquin47]

106 miles is about the distance to my parents' house.  I won't usually do it for a day trip, but I totally can.

Going to my grandparents' place that's a five and a half hour drive away?  Yeah, we'll totally do that as a day trip.

[TRenn]

She's shown no capacity for self awareness so far.

But we've known her for ... how long? How confident can we be in our assessment of someone when we've seen maybe five to ten minutes of their interaction with at most two people? This is what I've been trying to get at.

Stockhold syndrome might just be an explanation for Tilly.

Think about who sent her and just what Hanner's mother is like and has been shown doing.

As a side note, Tilly might also be someone who could play well off of Clinton in more of a way to try helping deprogram her...

Personally, I would not be at ALL surprised to find that, even if Tilly completely figures out what she did wrong, apologizes, and fully repents, that she was a tool in one of Beatrice's Xanatos Gambits, and that things are still going according to plan. Whatever the plan might be.

[de_la_Nae]

Mordhaus: Boy, I used to do that for work. God I grew to hate it. Finally falling asleep behind the wheel and wrecking didn't help.

I can only hope that this arc ends up stripping Beatrice of her power, wealth, and freedom.

[TheEvilDog]

The funniest thing about this is that 106 miles is basically like a short trip when you live in a larger state (Texas). For many years, I used to drive 110 miles a day just to get to work (55 each way).

When we go to the beach here, it's around 250 miles from my location. That's a day trip, 4hrs there, spend the day at the beach, 4 hrs back.

Its funny, because here, a journey like that would be something you'd have to psych yourself up for. That's a two hour drive to go 100 miles and unless you had a very good radio station or playlist, you were going to be bored out of your mind.

[Zebediah]

In Massachusetts a 106-mile drive can take between two and four hours depending on traffic. Right now (4:38 PM on a Tuesday) Google Maps says it would take me 2:46 to get to Boston harbor from Northampton via I-90. And rush hour is only getting started.

[DesiArxxy]

I can only hope that this arc ends up stripping Beatrice of her power, wealth, and freedom.

I really don't see how that could possibly happen, seeing as how Taffy is the only person who has done anything wrong.

[JimC]

The idea is somewhat unformed in my head, and I don't know that I want to work through it in detail, but supposing this isn't about Hannelore at all?  Supposing its all about Tilly being checked out for emotional manipulation, machiavellian slyness and general corporate immorality? Someone who looks innocent like that but has already shown considerable promise in office politicing, ladder climbing,   and all the rest might well be on Beatrice' list for potential business misdemeanours...

[DesiArxxy]

She's shown no capacity for self awareness so far.

But we've known her for ... how long? How confident can we be in our assessment of someone when we've seen maybe five to ten minutes of their interaction with at most two people? This is what I've been trying to get at.

Stockhold syndrome might just be an explanation for Tilly.

Think about who sent her and just what Hanner's mother is like and has been shown doing.

As a side note, Tilly might also be someone who could play well off of Clinton in more of a way to try helping deprogram her...

Personally, I would not be at ALL surprised to find that, even if Tilly completely figures out what she did wrong, apologizes, and fully repents, that she was a tool in one of Beatrice's Xanatos Gambits, and that things are still going according to plan. Whatever the plan might be.

As I pointed out earlier, Hanners either has to kick a puppy or has to allow a manipulating, gaslighting agent into her life. Beatrice wins either way, since she's trying to harden Hannelore into a suitably ruthless businesswoman.

[Tova]

So to me, the question we should be asking isn't why isn't Tilly respecting Hannelore's wishes, but why would Beatrice, a known ruthless manipulator, send a fool to Hannelore, the only person Beatrice cares for in any way, in the first place?

You're right. This doesn't really make sense. Maybe it's time to step back and examine your assumptions.

Everyone is assuming malicious intent on Beatrice's part.

But maybe she's just a bad mother.

It fits what we've seen until now a lot better.

[pwhodges]

For many years, I used to drive 110 miles a day just to get to work (55 each way).

I did about that for some years right here in little England!

[Case]

Comic is up! Humph ... Ok?

Yesterday I was almost ready to concede to Tova that we "did (indeed) see" - Boundaries established & seemingly understood, Hanners was left one apology short and with one surplus offer of remedial self-sacrifice, but such is life, eh? Tilly has seen the light, and it brought tears to her eyes.
 
Today, Tilly apologizes ... for wasting Hanners time? That wasn't quite what Hanners had complained to her about, was it? So now I'm left wondering whether Tilly understands what she did wrong - other than "mistress being upset with her", which equates to "job not excellently done".

I really don't know what to make of her - other than "That. Kid. Has. ISSUES ..."

[DesiArxxy]

Today, Tilly apologizes ... for wasting Hanners time? That wasn't quite what Hanners had complained to her about, was it? So now I'm left wondering whether Tilly understands what she did wrong - other than "mistress being upset with her", which equates to "job not excellently done".

I'd say it pretty solidly confirms my take that Taffy just thinks, "I have failed to please the Almighty Heiress!"

[de_la_Nae]

I can only hope that this arc ends up stripping Beatrice of her power, wealth, and freedom.

I really don't see how that could possibly happen, seeing as how Taffy is the only person who has done anything wrong.

Oh I don't see how it could happen. But Beatrice is established as an evil corporateer. So I mean I hope somehow it blows up in her face.

[de_la_Nae]

why i said 'hope', not 'think'

[Tova]

Yesterday I was almost ready to concede to Tova that we "did (indeed) see" - Boundaries established & seemingly understood, Hanners was left one apology short and with one surplus offer of remedial self-sacrifice, but such is life, eh? Tilly has seen the light, and it brought tears to her eyes.
 
Today, Tilly apologizes ... for wasting Hanners time? That wasn't quite what Hanners had complained to her about, was it? So now I'm left wondering whether Tilly understands what she did wrong - other than "mistress being upset with her", which equates to "job not excellently done".

I really don't know what to make of her - other than "That. Kid. Has. ISSUES ..."

I'm not sure whether she understands what she did wrong or not. BUT I do suspect she is more sorry for herself than anything else.

The apology for wasting Hanners' time sounds to me like a learned apology one would give to an executive. Wasting Beatrice's time would indeed be a crime in her eyes.

[snufflebottoms]

God Tilly is still obnoxious.

[ChipNoir]

Eugh. I think I liked Tilly better when she was being Terminator levels of helpful.

This weeping self pity and House Elfism is seriously making me want to see this plotline ended asap, or at least put aside for something else that's funny or interesting.

[Smallest]

I didn't know Americans said 'dossier.'

[SmilingCat]

So are Hannelore's hands up like that out of exasperation, or because she was preparing to go kung fu on Taffy if she carried out her hug?

I didn't know Americans said 'dossier.'

Sure we do! It sounds so much more classy than "file".

[Smallest]

So are Hannelore's hands up like that out of exasperation, or because she was preparing to go kung fu on Taffy if she carried out her hug?

I assumed the latter but also maybe both.

[brasca]

While I find it unlikely that Beatrice would appoint someone with no prior experience as a personal assistant to her daughter she might be testing Hannelore or possibly Tilly is craftier than she looks and realized pulling on her heartstrings would be the best way to stay employed for now.  I still have a theory that Hannelore really doesn't want a personal assistant until Juicy walks into the coffee shop and the opportunity to use Tilly to "replace" her will be too tempting. 

Then again Beatrice might not care.  While she has quite the ruthless reputation she's had barely anything to do with her daughter since the last time they met.  Maybe she just awarded her an employee without much thought and Hannelore and to some extent the readers are paranoid enough to think there's a scheme within a scheme. 

[Is it cold in here?]

Tilly has some serious psychological issues.

She's already crossed paths with Winslow and will do so again. Winslow is compassionate, used to dealing with a human who has psychological problems, and he's gaining experience as a counselor.

After all the generations humans have spent programming computers it will be a nice touch of irony if a computer deprograms Tilly.

[BenRG]

I've got to say that Tilly's story and character are both sounding more and more like Jeph has been binge-reading Dilbert strips from the early-2000s. A character with complete lack of understanding of ethics and morality combined with the heavy-handed comedic missing the point is a very Adams style of humour, IMO. All we need at this point is to find out that Tilly's immediate boss has his hair shaped into horn-like points to complete the comparison!

That said, if the past two strips were an attempt on Jeph's part to make Tilly more sympathetic, I'm not sure how much good it will do him. Tilly still comes across as basically selfish whose only real motive is to succeed in her assignment and for whom Hannelore is just a 'subject', not really a distinct person. If she's grateful now it's because Hannelore hasn't decided to destroy her by sending her back to HQ in disgrace. We aren't sure if she's going to pick up on the 'boundaries' thing yet.

Finally... There is a dossier? I can't help but wonder for what purpose Beatrice had her underlings create an "Idiot's Guide" to Hannelore!

[gopher]

It just gets duller. Maybe the Turkeys can bring some humour.

[traroth]

I've got to say that Tilly's story and character are both sounding more and more like Jeph has been binge-reading Dilbert strips from the early-2000s. A character with complete lack of understanding of ethics and morality combined with the heavy-handed comedic missing the point is a very Adams style of humour, IMO. All we need at this point is to find out that Tilly's immediate boss has his hair shaped into horn-like points to complete the comparison!

Let's hope Jeph Jacques will never say Trump is cool...

[Gyrre]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

That becomes an argument between conscious and subconscious thought/awareness.

Specifically because she was expressly ordered to be oblivious to it by her employer, Beatrice.

That ... is a logical impossibility. You cannot be blissfully ignorant of something because you've been ordered to be oblivious to it, since you'd have to consciously acknowledge said something in order to follow those orders.

I have a hard time knowing what to make of this post of yours ...

• Firstly, the term "subconscious awareness" is an oxymoron (*, **) - i.e. this looks like you've tried to support a logically impossible conclusion by adding to it something that is self-contradictory on its face.
  
  
• Secondly, editing a quote in the way you did - i.e. retroactively inserting the (violet-coloured) sentence into the original sequence of posts from which it was absent (cf. upthread) - could be interpreted as your trying to suggest that I had overlooked an important part of your argument when I questioned its logical coherence?
  
  Don't want to ascribe any sinister motives to you, but ... do you see how doing this without at least pointing out that the quote was edited could look a little weird?
  

Look, maybe we should first see whether this isn't simply a semantic problem of confusing the meanings of the verb "to ignore (smth.)" and the adjective "(to be) ignorant (of)" - the former means "to (intentionally) not react to something (that one is aware of)" (***), while the latter means "to be unaware of something" (****), or "to be oblivious to smth.".

Afaics, Tova meant that Tilly might be "blissfully ignorant of her creepiness" (second meaning) when she followed her orders to ignore (first meaning) Hanners' initial attempts at communicating her boundaries.

But it is completely impossible to choose to be ignorant of something, or to follow an order to be ignorant of something - in order to make the choice, or follow the order, you first need to become aware of the something, at which point you are no longer ignorant of it. What we can do is to pretend to others that we are ignorant of something, while in reality we made a conscious choice to ignore it. But this pretence is not a faithful account of reality, and unless we apply some heavy-duty 1984-style doublethink to the problem, at least we ourselves would know it is not.


(*) subconscious [n] - "the totality of mental processes of which the individual is not aware; unreportable mental activities. " (subconscious, www.dictionary.com)

(**) oxymoron [n] - "a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”." (oxymoron, www.dictionary.com)

 (***) ignore [v] -  "to intentionally not listen or give attention to" (ignore, www.dictionary.com)

(****) ignorant [adj] - "not having enough knowledge, understanding, or information about something" ignorant, www.dictionary.com)

Firstly, the violet text was inserted in the wrong area of the post, hence there being nothing below your statement aside from my signature. That post has been edited.

Secondly, a backslash (/) inserted between two words is often done to represent the word "or". Thusly, the latter portion would be 'subconscious thought' or [poor word choice] 'subconscious awareness'. Not sure if I had meant those in the reverse order as the choice applied to both the words 'conscious' and 'subconscious'. [font size=8]12 hour holiday shifts. yay -_-[/font size]

Now I actually have time to explain what I meant since I'm responding at the start of my break instead of the end of it. (No promises of coherence.) Many people form subconscious filters through which they process information. Usually speaking, these involve an individuals preconceptions and worldview. Things that violate this filter settings are ignored. The least controversial example I can think of would be the 'weirdness censor' trope, sometimes called 'reality blindness'.

Now then, haven't we already had a discussion in the forums about not jumping to conclusions to try to prove one's own mental superiority? Earnest question. I'm tired, so I might be mixed up with a discussion on tumblr a few months back.


ADDENDUM: Looks like the discussion was on tumblr. BTW, I should probably mention that I only read the first few lines of your response, Case. As it read like the sort of post we were discussing.

[TinPenguin]

goddamnit hannelore.

[maneyan]

Oh for heaven's sake... You were THIS CLOSE Hannelore, THIS CLOSE to having this creepy creeper out of your life. You are not responsible for her corporate career and when she keeps proving time and time again that she has no clue about the boundaries that are so important to you you're only furthering your own misery.

*hyperventilates*

Okay... I'm good... I'm good... just please don't let us have some wacky shenanigans that causes Tilly to magically "earn her place". That'd just be shit...

[BenRG]

Well, I don't know if this is a positive or a negative thing:

(click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/931633927084822533

Tilly with a 'funeeeeee' new wardrobe. I don't know if that's concept art for later appearances or just Jeph drawing her in a different way because... well, because he wants to.

[JoeCovenant]

I...
I just don't like her.

(Oh - and going by Ben's spoilered 'Jeff sketch' above - that's the AI theory out the window!)

But, has anyone else noticed the Taffy/Tilly thing has stopped?
She's now answering to "Taffy"...

Not that it matters... I just don't like her.
Doesn't seem to be any point to her coming into the story at all...

But then - I'm not Jeff!
Hoping for some kind of Damascene moment...

[Gyrre]

Case if I was to ascribe total innocence to Gyrre, I would say they *really* fucked up how quote tags work.
I don't know beyond all doubt that we can do that, as I don't know Gyrre from Richard Spencer. But I mean probably.

I pretty much only use my phone for posting in the forums. Lately it's been getting confused on cursor placement. Either that or I'm hitting the screen with my middle finger while typing.

[Veloso]

Incidentally, this set up does remind me somewhat of the introduction of May.

I just don't see it.

What was May's story?  She was a personal assistant who weaseled her way into a job against her client's wishes.  Her personality quirks made her uncomfortable to work with, which made her bad at the job.  When she saw the error in her ways, she apologized and offered to leave, but her client inexplicably decided she should stay around.

What's that have to do with this story?

[Cornelius]

I think you've summed it up pretty nicely. And May did lie to stay in the job, as well.

[traroth]

Well, I don't know if this is a positive or a negative thing:

(click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/jephjacques/status/931633927084822533

Tilly with a 'funeeeeee' new wardrobe. I don't know if that's concept art for later appearances or just Jeph drawing her in a different way because... well, because he wants to.

So she's not a robot, it seems.

[traroth]

Seems like Silly will keep sticking around...

[shanejayell]

Tilly needs to chill the fuck out. *lol*

[JimC]

It might be interesting to know age range of people with reactions to Tilly. Just comes across to me as a naive teenager with big hopes and loads of misconceptions about the world outside school. Seen lots of them. Sure she's turned up to 11 because comic, but its all kinda familiar. You just have to cut them a bit of slack in between keeping on pointing them in the right direction because otherwise they'll never be any use for anything, and sadly school did very little for their socialisation.

So I wonder if some of the folks with great antipathy haven't had quite as many dumb kids they need to train up across their tracks yet? I could be completely off the track, but some aspects of what Hanners is trying to cope with ring some bells for me.

[themacnut]

Tilly has some serious psychological issues.

She's already crossed paths with Winslow and will do so again. Winslow is compassionate, used to dealing with a human who has psychological problems, and he's gaining experience as a counselor.

After all the generations humans have spent programming computers it will be a nice touch of irony if a computer deprograms Tilly.

That all assumes that Tilly will even want to be deprogrammed. Remember, she joined the corporation of her own free will, and allowed/is allowing herself to be molded to the corporation's needs in a way that she hopes will benefit her as well (for advancement, raises etc). Deprogramming could interfere with that and potentially ruin her career, probably costing her a job. She would not want that to happen and would resist it, maybe with all her might.

Finally... There is a dossier? I can't help but wonder for what purpose Beatrice had her underlings create an "Idiot's Guide" to Hannelore!

Why, for Beatirce to get to know her daughter, of course. Yeah, she could do that the old-fashioned way by, you know, spending time with her, but Beatrice ain't got no time for that, she's got an empire to run! So she has various underlings spy on her daughter and assemble a personality profile that Beatrice can readily and quickly flip through as needed, as well as hand off to someone like Tilly. Time and money saved, yay!

[Gyrre]

So to me, the question we should be asking isn't why isn't Tilly respecting Hannelore's wishes, but why would Beatrice, a known ruthless manipulator, send a fool to Hannelore, the only person Beatrice cares for in any way, in the first place?

You're right. This doesn't really make sense. Maybe it's time to step back and examine your assumptions.

Everyone is assuming malicious intent on Beatrice's part.

But maybe she's just a bad mother.

It fits what we've seen until now a lot better.

I've said it twice now, having a PA is a point of pride for Beatrice.  She practically said as much herself. To her, it's just something her family has.

[Zebediah]

That all assumes that Tilly will even want to be deprogrammed. Remember, she joined the corporation of her own free will, and allowed/is allowing herself to be molded to the corporation's needs in a way that she hopes will benefit her as well (for advancement, raises etc). Deprogramming could interfere with that and potentially ruin her career, probably costing her a job. She would not want that to happen and would resist it, maybe with all her might.

Uh, I don't think anyone ever actually wants to be deprogrammed. The whole point of it is that their free will has been compromised so that they willingly choose to stay with their abusers.

[thedevilissix]

It might be interesting to know age range of people with reactions to Tilly. Just comes across to me as a naive teenager with big hopes and loads of misconceptions about the world outside school. Seen lots of them. Sure she's turned up to 11 because comic, but its all kinda familiar. You just have to cut them a bit of slack in between keeping on pointing them in the right direction because otherwise they'll never be any use for anything, and sadly school did very little for their socialisation.

So I wonder if some of the folks with great antipathy haven't had quite as many dumb kids they need to train up across their tracks yet? I could be completely off the track, but some aspects of what Hanners is trying to cope with ring some bells for me.

This to me is a very good point. Tilly to me has never read as a sociopath, potential abusive character, or some big creep (though I can well understand why people would get bunny boiler vibes from her actions). I just think that she's probably young, impressionable, overeager, hypersensitive in her self (though not necessarily to others, yes) and really doesn't have much concept of how the working world really works yet. This is probably exactly why Beatrice recruited her. (There's some sociopathy right there.)

I used to be a University administrator and you'd be surprised how many 20-year-olds I came across who took rejection or things not going to their plan very badly. They've in my view just not been taught or learnt emotional intel or resilience properly (I think you need both to be a good PA without having a nervous breakdown, incidentally) and that's as much a shortcoming of the schooling system they've come from as it is of them to not look up how to do that independently (which of course shows good emotional intelligence and self-awareness).

[thedevilissix]

I say this because I'm a bit of a reformed character now in my early thirties - I was probably a lot like Tilly in my early jobs, and people probably and understandably found me really fucking annoying too 
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that Tilly hasn't grown much as a work colleague or a person yet, but hopefully she will in both.

[Case]

Firstly, the violet text was inserted in the wrong area of the post, hence there being nothing below your statement aside from my signature. That post has been edited.

Cool, thanks for the clarification. To add a one of my own: Re-reading my post with a bit more distance, it does sounds vaguely like I'm accusing you of 'dishonest posting' - While I'd tried to pre-empt that impression by assuring you I didn't want to insinuate any motivations, that ... doesn't really help much, does it? I'd had tried to pack too many thoughts into in point, and several edits to make it better ended up making it worse. The perils of neuro-atypical myopia - it ended up sounding totally different than what I'd had in mind. This is not my impression of you. My apologies for any discomfort I caused you.

Secondly, a backslash (/) inserted between two words is often done to represent the word "or". Thusly, the latter portion would be 'subconscious thought' or [poor word choice] 'subconscious awareness'. Not sure if I had meant those in the reverse order as the choice applied to both the words 'conscious' and 'subconscious'. [font size=8]12 hour holiday shifts. yay -_-[/font size]

Now I actually have time to explain what I meant since I'm responding at the start of my break instead of the end of it. (No promises of coherence.) Many people form subconscious filters through which they process information. Usually speaking, these involve an individuals preconceptions and worldview. Things that violate this filter settings are ignored. The least controversial example I can think of would be the 'weirdness censor' trope, sometimes called 'reality blindness'.

Ok - question is whether you're interested in continuing that line of discussion, or whether we let it rest? Personally, I'd be happy to, since I've always found the topic "(pre-)consciousness" fascinating, ever since reading "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance".

(click to show/hide)

My personal opinion is: Can there by a layer of the mind which has its own form of 'awareness' that the layer that we call consciousness cannot access? I've read that some experts say yes, others say no - personally I've no real opinion, and consider myself the most ignorant of laypersons.

Thing is that the word 'awareness' that we use in everyday parlance only really make sense when it refers to our 'conscious awareness(es)' - I can't really tell you much about my 'subconscious awareness' other that if it exists, it doesn't talk to me, least not in any way I could express to you in words.

That was why I used the 'argumentatum ad dictionarum', an argument that I normally abhorr - since my point was one of semantics.

Now then, haven't we already had a discussion in the forums about not jumping to conclusions to try to prove one's own mental superiority? Earnest question. I'm tired, so I might be mixed up with a discussion on tumblr a few months back.

Hmmmh, what to say? Ok - I'll first give an answer to the literal reading of the question: I don't recall such a discussion on this sub-forum. If there was one, I wasn't part of it. If you consider further clarification necessary, feel free to expand on how you think the above applies to my blurb/me - but I'd point out that I can only reply to what you have posted, not what you had intended to post, but didn't have the time to. I found your thought interesting and had some questions about it, so ask I did. 

Random fun fact: I'm not in the habit of investing time into designing minor effort-posts involving bulletpoints and quotations and whatnot to throw at people that I consider idiots, posts I consider uninteresting, or both. So when I do reply to you (or anyone else for that matter), you can safely assume that instead I'm taking you and your thoughts/post seriously and am offering you my honest reflections on it for your consideration and further discussion, should you wish to do so - not as a veiled insult. It's an invitation to "Uhmmmmh - wanna come out and play?".