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Hanners descending into Looney Tunes-esque attempts to get rid of Tilly

13 (29.5%)

Tilly turns out to be worse than Cosette and burns down Coffee of Doom

5 (11.4%)

Tilly sits in the corner of the coffeeshop for the day and sniffs tea

6 (13.6%)

The non-continuing adventures to buy Hanners new phone

2 (4.5%)

The story switches to Brun browsing for clocks.

4 (9.1%)

The QC version of Single White Female, but plays out like Home Alone

3 (6.8%)

Hanners breaks out the ultimate weapon. Tilly has to spend 15 minutes with...Pintsize!

8 (18.2%)

Pintsize eating birdseed

3 (6.8%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Voting closed: 25 Nov 2017, 11:03

[pendrake]

I never thought I would feel this negatively towards Hannelore, but I do.

Ignoring someone's name like Hannelore has been doing, even if negligently or ignorantly, is one of the most disrespectful things you can do to someone.

[TinPenguin]

...Whoever suggested giving Tilly a sock may not have been too far off the mark. We're in full Doby territory here.  Now even I'm falling off of the Tilly Train. This is a little too much for me.

"...M-Mistress has given Tibby a coffee!"

[Tova]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

[brasca]

The difference here is...

The other difference is that Hannelore was frightened and upset by Clinton whereas she is merely exasperated by Tafly.

--------- Later -----------

Oh, I should add that if Tilly does not honour normal executive hours and intrudes on Hanners in the evening that would be a major issue, and of course not honouring the 48 hour agreement would be definitively creepy. Incidentally I get Tilly as being very young, several years younger than Hanners. A Tilly older than Hanners would come across to me as a much more sinister figure. I think Tilly engages the helpless kitten reflex for Hanners. After all this is someone who bursts into tears when made a cup of coffee by the boss...

There’s also the matter of power.  Hannelore didn’t know anything about Clinton and while she doesn’t know all that much about Tilly the most important fact is she works for her mother.  As such she won’t do anything that would displease Beatrice so there’s no physical danger just a nuisance.

[snufflebottoms]

I never thought I would feel this negatively towards Hannelore, but I do.

Ignoring someone's name like Hannelore has been doing, even if negligently or ignorantly, is one of the most disrespectful things you can do to someone.

The wrong name is not even close to the disrespectfulness that Tilly has displayed towards Hanners. Doesn't even touch it.

And I do think it's because Hannelore hasn't noticed.

[DesiArxxy]

The wrong name is not even close to the disrespectfulness that Tilly has displayed towards Hanners. Doesn't even touch it.

And I do think it's because Hannelore hasn't noticed.

If you think about it, it's completely appropriate and makes sense: "As long as you are my mother's mindless creature, I will call you by the name she uses. You can be Tilly when you actually are your own person."

[Tova]

Well. Actually, I think it's passive aggressive when she should instead be assertive.

She continued to use the same name when speaking with Dora, though, so it may not be deliberate.

[Case]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

Whelp ... most people would consider being threatened with the police as 'receiving a hint'.

And I'm afraid I can't see how that distinction makes a difference to anybody but Tilly - once she realizes the error of her ways and starts asking herself what the hell motivated her to blatantly refuse to leave another person alone unless being forced to by the police.

Any minute now, I'm sure.

[Tova]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

Whelp ... most people would consider being threatened with the police as 'receiving a hint'.

Yes, of course.

And I'm afraid I can't see how that distinction makes a difference to anybody but Tilly...

I dunno. The distinction seemed to matter to the person who brought it up in the conversation just up there. ^

Any minute now, I'm sure.

We'll see, I guess.

[snufflebottoms]

She continued to use the same name when speaking with Dora, though, so it may not be deliberate.

That's basically where I'm coming from. All of Tilly's corrections seemed to be softer spoken too. I don't think she's hearing her.

[shanejayell]

Dora says what we're all thinking...

[Gyrre]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

Specifically because she was expressly ordered to be oblivious to it by her employer, Beatrice.

[Case]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

Specifically because she was expressly ordered to be oblivious to it by her employer, Beatrice.

That ... is a logical impossibility. You cannot be blissfully ignorant of something because you've been ordered to be oblivious to it, since you'd have to consciously acknowledge said something in order to follow those orders.

[TheEvilDog]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

Whelp ... most people would consider being threatened with the police as 'receiving a hint'.

And I'm afraid I can't see how that distinction makes a difference to anybody but Tilly - once she realizes the error of her ways and starts asking herself what the hell motivated her to blatantly refuse to leave another person alone unless being forced to by the police.

Any minute now, I'm sure.

That's taking into account a sense of self awareness that I very much doubt Tilly is capable of possessing.

[Tova]

She's shown no capacity for self awareness so far.

But we've known her for ... how long? How confident can we be in our assessment of someone when we've seen maybe five to ten minutes of their interaction with at most two people? This is what I've been trying to get at.

[Near Lurker]

According to Google, New Haven is only 83 miles away.

[SotFX]

She's shown no capacity for self awareness so far.

But we've known her for ... how long? How confident can we be in our assessment of someone when we've seen maybe five to ten minutes of their interaction with at most two people? This is what I've been trying to get at.

Stockhold syndrome might just be an explanation for Tilly.

Think about who sent her and just what Hanner's mother is like and has been shown doing.

As a side note, Tilly might also be someone who could play well off of Clinton in more of a way to try helping deprogram her...

[Tova]

I wouldn't be surprised if (perhaps justifiable) fear of failure is warping her behaviour.

[TheEvilDog]

Folks! FOlks! FOLKS! HEY HEY LOOK! THE PENNY DROPPED! IT FINALLY DROPPED! And boy, was it a clanger.

[ChipNoir]

Tibby is a free elf!....I mean, assistant?

Lordy.

[mercykills]

o sweet merciful god in heaven, THANK YOU. The bulls**t cuts off.

[OldGoat]

Thick skull penetration achieved, and in a fairly gentle fashion, I might add!

Damn, Jeph, you pulled it off!  You made me feel sympathetic toward Ms Matilda.

[Tova]

Thick skull penetration achieved, and in a fairly gentle fashion, I might add!

Hanners is showing one of the reasons she's everyone's favourite, I think. She has a heart of gold.

[cloudatlatl]

I've been hoping since Tilly's introduction that there was going to be some payoff to the story, some other reason for Beatrice sending her that wouldn't be revealed until later.  Like maybe there was a subtle plan to trick Hanners into entering the cutthroat world of business.  Instead Tilly just got more and more over the top, making my hope for long-term plotting seem less and less likely...

[WoaLG]

Tilly: "I have to go throw myself into the ocean"
Dobby: "And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the top most tower!"

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

[Gyrre]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

Specifically because she was expressly ordered to be oblivious to it by her employer, Beatrice.

That ... is a logical impossibility. You cannot be blissfully ignorant of something because you've been ordered to be oblivious to it, since you'd have to consciously acknowledge said something in order to follow those orders.

That becomes an argument between conscious and subconscious thought/awareness.

EDIT: stupid useless touch screen not scrolling properly.

[brasca]

Tilly: "I have to go throw myself into the ocean"
Dobby: "And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the top most tower!"

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

I think she chose the ocean because if she enters the water at the right time of day the tide would take her body out to sea and thereby dispose of her own corpse.  Dobby on the other hand leaves a messy elf corpse.  At least Tilly is thinking 2 steps ahead.   

[Tova]

I've been hoping since Tilly's introduction that there was going to be some payoff to the story, some other reason for Beatrice sending her that wouldn't be revealed until later.  Like maybe there was a subtle plan to trick Hanners into entering the cutthroat world of business.  Instead Tilly just got more and more over the top, making my hope for long-term plotting seem less and less likely...

Welcome, new person!

I still think she has a plan to (trick? push? coerce?) Hanners into the cutthroat world of business, but I suspect there's nothing subtle about it.

[Cornelius]

There’s also the matter of power.  Hannelore didn’t know anything about Clinton and while she doesn’t know all that much about Tilly the most important fact is she works for her mother.  As such she won’t do anything that would displease Beatrice so there’s no physical danger just a nuisance.

You know, this is Beatrice we're talking about. Somehow, I've feeling that physical danger would fall into the category of "Finally my daughter is turning out worthy heir" rather than displease her.

As to the misnaming, might I suggest looking at what is happening in this very thread?

I think it's pretty clear that Beatrice will try anything to get Hanners to take over the empire, as soon as she seems her ready to do so. Sending Tilly might be her way of acknowledging Hanners' progress, and to try and keep the momentum going.

I do appreciate Hannelore's handling of the issue, though.

Edited to correct the autocorrect

[Akima]

I imagine that Massachusetts boasts many lakes more conveniently situated than the distant ocean for compensatory drownings. I mean, if you're into that.

[BenRG]

I really think that sitting in on Tilly's pre-assignment briefing would have been instructive. What did Beatrice (or, more likely, someone working under the instructions of Beatrice's PA) tell her? I can well believe that, through the Chinese Whispers chain of multiple managerial levels, Beatrice's initial instructions and intentions (which she likely was too busy to express too clearly herself) were distorted beyond imagining.

Tilly, on the other hand, being a good corporate drone, is used to rationalising away obvious contradictions and even blatantly illegal means in order to obey orders and get a 'satisfactory' performance review at her next supervision session. It wasn't until, as we see here, Hannelore points out that, by obeying one set of instructions that it became logically impossible to obey the other that she realised just in what kind of a no-win scenario she had been left in by her supervisor!

Tilly's a good kid but I don't think it's guilt that's motivating her in panel 4. It's the realisation that it will probably less painful to kill herself in some clumsy and slow manner than to let her managers discipline her for failing in her assignment. I mean, the next assignment could now be a real winner like 'inventory the ceiling tiles' or 'chair the Working Group on Employee Empowerment until morale improves with a time limit of three months'.

And I'm afraid I can't see how that distinction makes a difference to anybody but Tilly - once she realizes the error of her ways and starts asking herself what the hell motivated her to blatantly refuse to leave another person alone unless being forced to by the police.

Because most large corporations consider the law to be something to work around, not something to obey. I doubt that this is the first project Tilly's been involved in where obeying the law and the rules of human decency is only an issue when a SWAT team, assisted by FBI officers and a SEC auditor or two come busting in to arrest the entire project team.

"Low-pollution diesel engines" comes to mind.

[DesiArxxy]

Tilly's a good kid but I don't think it's guilt that's motivating her in panel 4. It's the realisation that it will probably less painful to kill herself in some clumsy and slow manner than to let her managers discipline her for failing in her assignment. I mean, the next assignment could now be a real winner like 'inventory the ceiling tiles' or 'chair the Working Group on Employee Empowerment until morale improves with a time limit of three months'.

I agree. Tilly's reaction here is purely, "I failed my assignment! I have disappointed The Heiress! I must now commit hara-kiri!" and not any actual realization that any of what she's been doing was wrong.

[anahata]

Penny drops and Tilly repents, or emotional blackmail to break down Hanners' resistance?
She could have been instructed to threaten suicide if all else fails. It happens: I've been on the receiving end of that.
Not clear to me yet...

[Elder Sign]

I agree. Tilly's reaction here is purely, "I failed my assignment! I have disappointed The Heiress! I must now commit hara-kiri!" and not any actual realization that any of what she's been doing was wrong.

Is Tilly actually an AI?  I can't recall, and it's probably meant to be ambiguous.  Either way, I can't be the only one who reads #3617 and is reminded of "You are flawed, and imperfect. Execute your prime function!"

[BenRG]

Tilly's a good kid but I don't think it's guilt that's motivating her in panel 4. It's the realisation that it will probably less painful to kill herself in some clumsy and slow manner than to let her managers discipline her for failing in her assignment. I mean, the next assignment could now be a real winner like 'inventory the ceiling tiles' or 'chair the Working Group on Employee Empowerment until morale improves with a time limit of three months'.

I agree. Tilly's reaction here is purely, "I failed my assignment! I have disappointed The Heiress! I must now commit hara-kiri!" and not any actual realization that any of what she's been doing was wrong.

Not so much 'failed' as manoeuvred into a situation where success is impossible on several criteria. It happens in corporate life sometimes and you can be very sure that the manager who gave you flawed instructions isn't the one who is going to be blamed!

[maneyan]

Oh, yes! Finally! Now this is gonna sound weird, but I really home that Tilly's face is ground into this a bit more... just a little more, then she can start repenting and shit, but the creeper realizing she is creeping is too good to just let go.

[DesiArxxy]

Oh, yes! Finally! Now this is gonna sound weird, but I really home that Tilly's face is ground into this a bit more... just a little more, then she can start repenting and shit, but the creeper realizing she is creeping is too good to just let go.

I'm not sure she actually realized she's been creepy, only that her "You can't send me away, I was ordered to ignore your wishes to the contrary, orders are orders, see?" act has alienated the Almighty Heiress. I think it's much more likely that she's thinking, "I shouldn't have pled orders to someone who is rightfully above the rules to begin with! I've ruined everything!"

[pwhodges]

According to Google, New Haven is only 83 miles away.

Hence Jeph's note specifying a route.

[DesiArxxy]

Not so much 'failed' as manoeuvred into a situation where success is impossible on several criteria. It happens in corporate life sometimes and you can be very sure that the manager who gave you flawed instructions isn't the one who is going to be blamed!

I agree that recognizing she was put into a no-win situation is certainly the next logical step, but I don't think she's actually made it yet.

[maneyan]

Oh, yes! Finally! Now this is gonna sound weird, but I really home that Tilly's face is ground into this a bit more... just a little more, then she can start repenting and shit, but the creeper realizing she is creeping is too good to just let go.

I'm not sure she actually realized she's been creepy, only that her "You can't send me away, I was ordered to ignore your wishes to the contrary, orders are orders, see?" act has alienated the Almighty Heiress. I think it's much more likely that she's thinking, "I shouldn't have pled orders to someone who is rightfully above the rules to begin with! I've ruined everything!"

Well in that case: keep suffering, creepy creeper.

[TinPenguin]

If Tiffin were a robot in bad sci-fi, steam would begin to pour from her earvents and attempting to solve the paradox would cause her to malfunction.

However, she's only a corporate robot, so she intends to facilitate the shutdown manually.

[Zebediah]

I imagine that Massachusetts boasts many lakes more conveniently situated than the distant ocean for compensatory drownings. I mean, if you're into that.

Oh yes. The Quabbin Reservoir is ideal. Large lake  only 18 miles from Northampton, rumored to be full of Cthulhoid monsters.

(Seriously, it’s believed that Lovecraft was inspired to write “The Colour Out of Space” by the construction of the Quabbin.)

[de_la_Nae]

Oh good.

[shanejayell]

Hurrah, she has gotten a CLUE! 

Don't drown yourself, dear. Please... 

[Case]

Tl,DR version; Clinton didn't know he was being a creep, while Tilly doesn't care.

I disagree with you there. I think Tilly is also blissfully ignorant of her creepiness.

That becomes an argument between conscious and subconscious thought/awareness.

Specifically because she was expressly ordered to be oblivious to it by her employer, Beatrice.

That ... is a logical impossibility. You cannot be blissfully ignorant of something because you've been ordered to be oblivious to it, since you'd have to consciously acknowledge said something in order to follow those orders.

I have a hard time knowing what to make of this post of yours ...

• Firstly, the term "subconscious awareness" is an oxymoron (*, **) - i.e. this looks like you've tried to support a logically impossible conclusion by adding to it something that is self-contradictory on its face.
  
  
• Secondly, editing a quote in the way you did - i.e. retroactively inserting the (violet-coloured) sentence into the original sequence of posts from which it was absent (cf. upthread) - could be interpreted as your trying to suggest that I had overlooked an important part of your argument when I questioned its logical coherence?
  
  Don't want to ascribe any sinister motives to you, but ... do you see how doing this without at least pointing out that the quote was edited could look a little weird?
  

Look, maybe we should first see whether this isn't simply a semantic problem of confusing the meanings of the verb "to ignore (smth.)" and the adjective "(to be) ignorant (of)" - the former means "to (intentionally) not react to something (that one is aware of)" (***), while the latter means "to be unaware of something" (****), or "to be oblivious to smth.".

Afaics, Tova meant that Tilly might be "blissfully ignorant of her creepiness" (second meaning) when she followed her orders to ignore (first meaning) Hanners' initial attempts at communicating her boundaries.

But it is completely impossible to choose to be ignorant of something, or to follow an order to be ignorant of something - in order to make the choice, or follow the order, you first need to become aware of the something, at which point you are no longer ignorant of it. What we can do is to pretend to others that we are ignorant of something, while in reality we made a conscious choice to ignore it. But this pretence is not a faithful account of reality, and unless we apply some heavy-duty 1984-style doublethink to the problem, at least we ourselves would know it is not.


(*) subconscious [n] - "the totality of mental processes of which the individual is not aware; unreportable mental activities. " (subconscious, www.dictionary.com)

(**) oxymoron [n] - "a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”." (oxymoron, www.dictionary.com)

 (***) ignore [v] -  "to intentionally not listen or give attention to" (ignore, www.dictionary.com)

(****) ignorant [adj] - "not having enough knowledge, understanding, or information about something" ignorant, www.dictionary.com)

[traroth]

"Relax, it's just a comic."

[Marco]

I thought the last strip could put an end to the deep analysis of Tilly's acts and motivations. Oh, boy, how I was wrong...

I'll be back in a week or two to see where it went.

[Thrudd]

Because most large corporations consider the law to be something to work around, not something to obey. I doubt that this is the first project Tilly's been involved in where obeying the law and the rules of human decency is only an issue when a SWAT team, assisted by FBI officers and a SEC auditor or two come busting in to arrest the entire project team.

"Low-pollution diesel engines" comes to mind.

I was more thinking of a certain FDA raid, using out-of-county deputies because of lack of trust of the local constabulary [for good reason], a decade or so back, just outside Chicago.

The diesel engine thing I take as a smoke screen to hide the ongoing endemic actions of the local players in the industry.
Muscle cars that pass EPA standards, using the similar techniques that the particular diesel did through software, yet have a hard time getting approved in other jurisdictions with supposedly less stringent regulations.

Not so much 'failed' as maneuvered (sp) into a situation where success is impossible on several criteria. It happens in corporate life sometimes and you can be very sure that the manager who gave you flawed instructions isn't the one who is going to be blamed!

Sadly all too true.
Fortunately I have not as yet suffered too much backlash from requesting that ethically/legally questionable instructions be given in writing - I work with regulated industries and am overqualified for what I do - surprising on how the paperwork never materializes and the "request" is "forgotten".

[Cornelius]

But it is completely impossible to choose to be ignorant of something, or to follow an order to be ignorant of something - in order to make the choice, or follow the order, you first need to become aware of the something, at which point you are no longer ignorant of it. What we can do is to pretend to others that we are ignorant of something, while in reality we made a conscious choice to ignore it. But this pretence is not a faithful account of reality, and unless we apply some heavy-duty 1984-style doublethink to the problem, at least we ourselves would know it is not.

(*) subconscious [n] - "the totality of mental processes of which the individual is not aware; unreportable mental activities. " (subconscious, www.dictionary.com)

(**) oxymoron [n] - "a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”." (oxymoron, www.dictionary.com)

 (***) ignore [v] -  "to intentionally not listen or give attention to" (ignore, www.dictionary.com)

(****) ignorant [adj] - "not having enough knowledge, understanding, or information about something" ignorant, www.dictionary.com)

Just wanted to add the minor foot note that in French, ignorer, does have both meanings. I wonder how frequently people do use ignore for being ignorant. But that's another board, I do believe.

Otherwise doubleplusgood oldspeak.

[Case]

Otherwise doubleplusgood oldspeak.

Oldspeak ref crimethink. Crimethink ref doubleplusungood. Dayorder rewrite post fullwise antevisit thinkpol.