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The Claireten Wedding

9 (3.5%)

An exploration of AI childhood

29 (11.2%)

Canon polyamorous relationship

22 (8.5%)

Crisis at Coffee of Doom (financial or staffing)

5 (1.9%)

Emily's origin story

28 (10.8%)

Hannelore seriously working on her AI charity

14 (5.4%)

Lots of Spookybot cameos pointing towards an Agenda of some sort

15 (5.8%)

Faye and Bubbles' big break in publicity terms may be a problem in disguise

19 (7.3%)

The Daligold Wedding!!! (With Momo and May as bridesmaids!!!)

11 (4.2%)

Angus returns and wants Faye back

19 (7.3%)

Corporate shenanigans at Ellicott-Chatham Incorporated

19 (7.3%)

Sam IS struggling at school; the main cast try to help

14 (5.4%)

After an unspecified issue, Marten, Faye, Bubbles, Claire and Hannelore have to move into a new house

23 (8.9%)

First night at the new (and LEGAL) Ultimate Robot Fighting League

26 (10%)

Other (please describe in comments)

6 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 81

[Prestwick]

Would Beatrice actually follow through with ruining a plebeian?  All of Hannelore's Northampton friends are otherwise below her notice.  She had to be damn near on-her-lips drunk with her mountain of inhibitions dissolved in ethanol to even joke about doing it.  Beatrice is silent because she's having flashbacks to the emotional abuse she suffered at the hands of her own mother.  Child abusers were almost always themselves abused and it takes confrontation and conscious effort to break the cycle.  Perhaps this will segue to Bea's backstory.

This I agree with. People could bring that up as an example of Beatrice's general cruelty but not of her ability to or likelihood of deliberately cause serious harm to Hannelore or her Northampton set of friends.

What Beatrice is guilty of is of emotional abuse and abuse through neglect and I agree that could be Beatrice having a eureka moment of some kind after being made by her own daughter to dip her face in her own vomit and look in the mirror...figuratively speaking of course.

But what I really do not see happening is some kind of Enemy of the State schenanigans or grand threatening gestures more fitting of Ernst Stavro Bloefeld than of Steve Jobs going on because Hannelore said no to her mother.

[Thrudd]

Okay - This discussion has gotten me to actually read the weeks strip one day early despite the continued presence of Tilly.

Yeeeup - the observations about logic being thrown out the window on how easily Hanners had access to her mom holds true.
I can chalk that up to artistic license for dramatic story flow

I can't see Hanners crying on anyone's shoulder. Ever!

She even went out of her way to turn towards Tilly instead of just doing the drop and bawl.
I am sorry but it is just so out of character for Hanners.
All I can see is a ham handed attempt to keep Tilly relevant and that is really irksome and annoying.
That artistic license is now under suspension and is under review for possible revocation.

Logically I could see Hanners drop to her knees between panels 3 and 4 as dramatic effect to show just how devastated and vulnerable she is.
Having Tilly standing behind her unable to effectively console her [because Tilly knows no touchie by now, right? right?] and that would have been true to both characters as we know them up till now.

This is JarJar all over again.
I hope we don't end up with an on the fly rewrite and end up with a Dooku and ongoing JarJar antics while Darth Maul lies bisected at the bottom of a power shaft

Warning - while you were typing 1 2 3 4 5 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to hit post before the week is over.

[JoeCovenant]

Okay, so I have a genuine question for those who expected more from Beatrice.

What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?

To be honest, pretty much ANYTHING... other than nothing.

Even just "Who do you think you are talking to, Missy!?" would have been better than the blank stare.

Parents don't usually let their children away with the kind of rant Hanners threw at her, without a word of response, no matter what their age.

[JoeCovenant]

There are so many ways things could go from here.
Here's a couple I'd hate to see...

Tilly storming back into the office to shout at Beatrice. "She's your DAUGHTER!!..... Ma'am!"
Hanners having some kind of bonding session with Tilly over this. (No logic I can think of would canonically justify such a thing.)
Basically, anything which keeps Tilly in the strip's focus after tomorrow...

I do feel for Jeph here.
Tilly is clearly his flavour of the month, but the whole build up about the *cutie* has just drastically failed, with a major majority disagreeing on his opinion, with what he clearly feels is a compelling and worthy character.

(The 'Jar-Jar' comparison has been raised already, and others have raised the very cogent point that far more interesting and worthy characters have been left in the cold for a LONG time, or simply vanished without a word.)

But then, the dilemma of the artist is do they stay true to their vision, or do they go with "what sells".
Integrity would say one thing. Human nature would say another...

Yeah... I don't envy Mr Jacques right now...

[Eyes_of_Heaven]

I'm not really understanding the Tilly hate as of late. I mean, sure, she definitely has that "Came out of nowhere" thing going on, but I'm honestly thinking a lot of the resentment going on towards her right now is grossly out of proportion, or being done because everyone else is.

Is she the perfect character for this or any arc? At the moment, no. But we're not giving her a chance to really be able to have any kind of development, or learn anymore about what made her the way she is.

I've seen several cases of the "Always wanting to help" mindset in some people, and what I usually end up finding out is that these people have been in multiple situations where friends and family have been abundantly over-critical of everything they do, or constantly put down any efforts on their part of trying to help. I've heard cases of lectures or verbal abuse over things as small as putting the bow on a present in a "Incorrect" spot, or them being belittled because they didn't do a extremely specific thing that they were never told but "Should have just known".

This builds a self destructive personality of "It was my fault. I should be a better person and think of others more than myself". The end result is that they over-extend in trying to be useful to others, not just because they want to help, but because of some subconscious desire for SOMEONE to look at what they did and say "Good job" instead of pointing out another very minor flaw. Maybe the same case is happening to Tilly? She even said that she believes that "A task should be done right, no matter how quixotic is may be". Quixotic meaning exceedingly idealistic, unrealistic, or impractical. She even takes the suggestion of being used as "Corporate Espionage" with a mindset of "I can't do that! Not because it's wrong, but because it's just a coffee shop!".

Most people would accept that they'll make mistakes, and sometimes certain things isn't worth the absurd amount of effort that would need to be put forth. Tilly however may have been raised on a self destructive "Do it all right, or it's wrong." mindset. In a practical sense, such as for a business, it's perfect. They're constantly seeking to improve and never take mistakes lightly. In a mental or emotional sense? You get someone breaking down over realizing they've been a inconvenience: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3617

What I'm trying to say is: Give her a break. Give Jeff a chance to actually develop her character before screaming about putting her on the noose. There's been plenty of other characters that have been introduced to the comic, everybody screaming for their blood, and then us realizing "Huh, they're not so bad after all".

Just... Let her learn to chill, and be a person instead of "Something to be used", alright?

[OldGoat]

I can't see Hanners crying on anyone's shoulder. Ever!

[snippage]

Logically I could see Hanners drop to her knees between panels 3 and 4 as dramatic effect to show just how devastated and vulnerable she is.
Having Tilly standing behind her unable to effectively console her [because Tilly knows no touchie by now, right? right?] and that would have been true to both characters as we know them up till now.

People overwhelmed with emotion don't always pay any attention at all to logic. 

By and large Jeph's main characters are dynamic.  You're correct, Thrudd, Hanners would never initiate physical contact, until this event.  She's changing - that's what dynamic characters do.

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new person!

Your ideas about how Tilly got that way are insightful.

I believe much of the negative reaction was to their refusal to take no for an answer. That reminded people of pushy salesmen at best, consent violations at worst.

[cloudatlatl]

Beatrice apparently runs the Empty Brown Corridors international empire... after Tilly's longest two-day internship stretched on for weeks, this feels rushed and wanting for detail, not unlike how I felt about the conclusion of the Corpse Witch/Spookybot story.  At least it looks like we'll get to see some other characters soon?

[haikupoet]

Her love for her friends.

Her father's compassion.

Her mother's daughter.

THIS

IS

HANNELORE.

[A Duck]

People always tend to have a negative reaction to new characters. Wasn't Claire, in particular, incredibly rejected at first?

And look where we are now 

I think it's a somewhat natural reaction to how "slow" QC is. People get attached to older characters and tend to feel wronged if they lose the spotlight. But that's how QC works, Jeph himself has said that this has been 2 or 3 different comics over it's story already.

[Tova]

I feel for Jeph right now, too.

His fans have very strong ideas about where they want the story to go, which is a good indication of how strong a following the comic has attracted.

But when those expectations are subverted, those fans dismiss the outcome as bad story telling.

At least QC has something in common with star wars, so that's something. 

[Tova]

It's okay, not everyone likes porgs.

I think that it it is becoming more common now for Hanners, in moments of great emotion, to momentarily overcome her aversion to physical contact. And I actually quite like the symmetry of starting with "I don't do hugs" and ending with a hug.

[Voran]

My concern is that other than the pursuit of drama, there wasn't a need for Hanners to nurse her grudge/anger, carry that across states, force a disruption of business and then use offensive physical force (even if relatively slight) against her mother.

Consider what the scenario would have been if her mother had hit the desk awkwardly, hurting her back, or clipping it and taking a fall and striking a table or something.  Suddenly all that stuff Hanners did becomes way more damaging to her case.  Alternately, flip the scenario, if Hanners had cut mom out her life over the phone, and her mom traveled to her, yelled at her and then shoved her...is it ok because its Hanners but totally f-u to mom if she had done that same scenario to Hanners?

The problem is that in the scenario, Hanners is the aggressor.  No self defense here, shes not under current or imminent fear of harm, she took her anger and outrage, and used it against someone.  Intent? Not clear, but again, from an external view you could go, "Huh, traveling on a plane for the purposes of breaking into your mother's office seems kind of focused intent."  Sure she feels justified.  I'm sure someone that lost their home to a bank feels justified in barging into a bank and demanding to see the manager and then forcing their way into their office.  But it doesn't make it the right way to do it.

She could have let her mom finish, based on the text mom had like...4 words left.  But Hanners felt she needed to physically establish dominance and stun her mom with fear.  She could have done her same speech, even with the finger touch at the end and it would have been fine.  Instead she wanted to make absolutely sure her mom couldn't interrupt her, so she chose force.   

I'm not saying Hanners should get arrested, and yeah, realistically unless mom is a super dick, no charges are going to be filed.  But that shouldn't negate the consequences of the choice Hanners used to use force to punctuate her point.

But for those thinking this approach was right, ask yourself, how is this any different from shoving your girlfriend or slapping her to make her shut up so you can yell at her?  Just because it is between two family members doesn't make it any less worse.

[A small perverse otter]

*("It's just zir jacket"?  I like that better - doesn't leave me thinking "Are Tilly and Hannelore both supposed to fit into that thing, or do they take turns wearing it?")

I'll give you the same advice that either of my amab daughters gives to anyone who asks: "If you want to know what pronoun to use, ask me." Tilly prefers they/them. They are entitled to that choice, and it's impolite to override it.

In this case, many genderqueer people prefer they/them precisely because they're already English words. The word 'zi' is not, and so its correct usage is unknown. Who knows what verb forms go with 'zi'? What is the proper form of the possessive? What about the objective form? By contrast, we know exactly how to use 'they/their/them' -- they're third person plural pronouns, and we know how to use them in text and in speech because we use them every day.

This really isn't as far-fetched as it sounds at first blush. Modern English does not have a second-person singular pronoun; we use the plural form in all cases. ('Thee/thou/thine' is a complete archaism: modern speakers can't actually enumerate the ways to use its forms in speech. When do you use 'thee' versus 'thou'? I certainly don't know, and I don't know anyone who can correctly handle the corner cases. I've tested people by using older text before the form left usage.)

[Penquin47]

So it's not as simple as "Use thou when you would use I/she/he, thee when you would use me/her/him, thy when you would use my/her/his, and thine for mine/hers/his"?

[Tova]

Voran, what do you think the consequences ought to be for a shove in the heat of the moment provoked by a lifetime of parental neglect cumulating culminating in an act of exploitation?

You don't think that under the circumstances it's maybe understandable? A little bit?

No one is advocating physical shoving as a method of communication, don't worry.

Ideally she would not have done it, but this is not an ideal situation, and she's human.

[Shjade]

But for those thinking this approach was right, ask yourself, how is this any different from shoving your girlfriend or slapping her to make her shut up so you can yell at her?  Just because it is between two family members doesn't make it any less worse.

How is this any different?

Well, my (hypothetical) girlfriend hasn't been a controlling influence in my life from the day I was born, doesn't act as though she still maintains a controlling interest in my life despite having minimal contact for most of my adult years, and lacks the power - both financial and emotional - to heavily influence my life beyond my control and without my consent if she chooses to do so. She also doesn't have a history of talking over me and ignoring my clearly stated positions on matters of conflict between us, so there's never been a need to escalate an argument beyond verbal sparring just to be taken seriously at all, regardless of how poorly thought-out such an escalation might be.

This comparison is asinine.

Warning - while you were typing a new rep yeah yeah whatever z.z

Edit: sidenote, I wouldn't really call what Hannelore's doing in that last panel "hugging." She's literally crying on Tilly's shoulder. Emotional breakdown ahoy. This isn't the first time she's forgotten her hangups in the heat of the moment, and this moment is certainly heated. I wouldn't be surprised if she freaks out, apologizes, or both once she recovers.

I have to admit I'm surprised Tilly wasn't involved in the confrontation though; I was expecting it. Now I'm not sure why she brought Tilly along for the ride either...hm. I was going to say "if she needed moral support she could've asked one of her friends," but her friends all have day jobs and other responsibilities, where Tilly's only responsibility is "stick with Hannelore," so I suppose it could've been a simple matter of convenience: she knew Tilly would be available and happy to go, and Hannelore just felt like she needed someone along for an anchor? Not the most satisfying reason, maybe, but it makes sense.

[brasca]

Glad it was just tears.  Something that emotionally wrenching might trigger vomiting and that would be more fluids than Hannelore could handle.

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new person with challenging thoughts!

[Magniras]

Poor Hanners.  Though that's a perfectly healthy reaction to cutting someone you care about out of your life.

Even if that person is a manipulative ball of slime and you're going to be better off without them.

[Gyrre]

We still have two more comics this week to find out…

And since Jeph tends to do fillers in the week between Christmas and New Year, I expect this to be fully resolved by then. One of those strips will be Hanners talking to Tilly. One may be Beatrice trying to understand Hanners.

How was a shove necessary here? I get that she's angry and wants to sever ties with her mom, but all that could've easily been handled verbally.

It's OOC yes, but that's basically what was necessary for Bea to actually shut up. A simple verbal notice would have left her with an opening to come back that the shove prevents.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Damnit, Ben, you beat me to the point

The shove gives an added bit of emphasis to everything Hanners said. Where Hanners hugged her father as a sign of gratitude and affection during the Station arc, here Hanners is using physical contact (something she has massive hang-ups about) to show just how much disdain she has for her mother at that moment.

[OldGoat]

So it's not as simple as "Use thou when you would use I/she/he, thee when you would use me/her/him, thy when you would use my/her/his, and thine for mine/hers/his"?

But we (all English speakers, not just non-binary folk or the denzians of this forum) are struggling with third (spoken of) person pronouns and thee/thou/thine is second (spoken to) person.  Using "them" just shifts the awkward bit from number to person.  (I can still hear Sister Mary Knucklewhacker making us chant, "Person, Number, Gender, Case.)

No one faction gets to declare changes to languages, especially English - the larger community will have to arrive at consensus. 

[JimC]

Tilly is clearly his flavour of the month, but the whole build up about the *cutie* has just drastically failed, with a major majority disagreeing on his opinion,

A majority of the noisy posters here, which must be a tiny minority of his entire readership. I've also seen comments which suggest that the character has not been nearly so negatively received elsewhere. Probably a mistake to put too much emphasis on our ramblings. Remember the poll on Tilly didn't come down nearly as negative as the postings seemed to.

[pwhodges]

I've also seen comments which suggest that the character has not been nearly so negatively received elsewhere.

OTOH an acquaintance of mine who reads QC but not this forum has asked me whether Tilly is being received as negatively here as he's seen in other places (unspecified).

[Reaver]

I like Tilly, they are really cute, and are trying really hard (and are overeager, and tries too hard, but when they did wrong they apologized and I don't see what the hate is for, Faye is way worse....

[Magniras]

Aw.  Damn.  Tilly's idealism and hope getting crushed somehow hurts a bit more than the death of a family relationship.

Sure Tilly might have been a bit annoying, but no one deserves to hear that they got used.

[WoaLG]

I can't help but read the "f l u i d s" at the bottom of the page the same way that Faye says "Face meats"

[Tova]

SO if you hated Tilly because they hurt Hanners, and now not only has Tilly expressed remorse for doing so, but Hanners has also clearly forgiven them, my question to you is - can you do the same?

[BenRG]

The thing that I got from this strip is that Tilly is obviously a lot younger than I thought. 'Straight out of school' means probably 21 or 22 to me; younger than any of the human main cast (except for Sam) who are mostly in their late 20s and even approaching the 'big 3-0'. I honestly thought that she was closer to the others' age and this was a 'big break' to get out of the lower echelons of ECI. I'm wondering if Jeph is planning to play on that with Tilly being the 'baby' of the cast whom the others feel obliged to act as protectors/mentors.

It should not come as no surprise that Hannelore did what she did here. For all her fears and neuroses, Hannelore is a tremendously empathetic and compassionate personality. She would not be able to remain detached when someone is in pain, no matter what difficulties that would impose on her later on.

Maybe any Patreon donors on this board can answer this for me: Are the bonus strips 'non-canon' one-off jokes or 'extra stories for colour', filling in the characters' personalities and relationships in ways that don't contribute to the narrative in any way?

[MrNumbers]

I just don't like them as a character. It's not a forgiveness thing, because they're not a real person, they're a literary device, and I didn't think they were effective as one.

It's not hatred. It's not big or pronounced. She's just boring and mildly irritating. And it's annoying because this comic wasn't otherwise lacking for a cast of more interesting characters to use.

I get why a character was introduced here. Hannelore needed something to be inciting action to cut ties with her mother, and the best way to do that was for her mother to use her and hurt an innocent person in the process. That's a brilliant plotline, and I enjoy it immensely.

I'd just rather a character more like, say, Jonah from Bojack Horseman be used. A quiet, calm, competent and very respectful PA who actually read the dossier, and just did a lot of small unobtrusive things that were weird but made Hannelore weirdly happy.

I'm thinking gags like when she's in the shower, he opens all the really difficult jars for her while wearing sterile gloves, then leaves again without a word, just to go out of the way to be unnoticable. Weird enough to be uncomfortable, but genuinely helpful and beneficial to Hannelore's life to make her feel conflicted about the situation.

Instead we've had Hannelore be the backup spoon drawer for a new character that hasn't earned it, because they need to steal spotlight to jumpstart their position in the story. It's trying to power-level a character by forcing a dynamic -- which happened rather literally -- and that's a really... obnoxious form of storytelling to me. Because instead of just being able to focus on the really interesting Hannelore storyline, it's now the Hannelore and Tilly storyline, and I couldn't possibly care less about a full half of that, and it makes me resentful for having to sit through it to be able to focus on the Hannelore parts I do like.

It's not Pinkie, Elmyra and the Brain bad, nowhere near the levels of what Fairly Odd Parents has become, but it still annoys me on a mechanical level.

EDIT: These paragraphs brought to you by the letter "I"

[Bollthorn]

Tilly did grind on me at first, but the emotional payoff in this last issue has made up for that.

Also people complaining about Hanners hugging someone but not about shoving Beatrice? Its still physical contact.

And as it was previously stated, people tend not to think logically when overcome with emotion. Especially after something as devastating and heavy as that.

So just give poor lil' Tilly a chance, eh? If Hanners finds them huggable, who are you to complain?

[JoeCovenant]

Tilly is clearly his flavour of the month, but the whole build up about the *cutie* has just drastically failed, with a major majority disagreeing on his opinion,

... Remember the poll on Tilly didn't come down nearly as negative as the postings seemed to.

??

That's certainly not how *I* read it...

[Absimilliard]

The poll is missing the option "Tilly goes back to their home planet and is never seen again".
I'm delighted that Hanners ended the year with two major breakthroughs (confronting her mother and chosing to hug someone), but I wish the companion would've been an established character, not a new one I hope I'll never see again.

[bhtooefr]

The thing that I got from this strip is that Tilly is obviously a lot younger than I thought. 'Straight out of school' means probably 21 or 22 to me; younger than any of the human main cast (except for Sam) who are mostly in their late 20s and even approaching the 'big 3-0'. I honestly thought that she was closer to the others' age and this was a 'big break' to get out of the lower echelons of ECI. I'm wondering if Jeph is planning to play on that with Tilly being the 'baby' of the cast whom the others feel obliged to act as protectors/mentors.

FWIW, Hannelore's close to her in age - she was 22 as of strip 1069 (March 2004 per AprilArcus's timeline), I'd guess it's circa 2006 in-strip now, making her ~24 now.

[gopher]

SO if you hated Tilly because they hurt Hanners, and now not only has Tilly expressed remorse for doing so, but Hanners has also clearly forgiven them, my question to you is - can you do the same?

No. Tilly still doesn't feel like a person. They are a collection of aggravating traits designed to move the Hanners story on. Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not  moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.

Terrible character, unengaging plot.

[Bad Superman]

I just don't like them as a character. It's not a forgiveness thing, because they're not a real person, they're a literary device, and I didn't think they were effective as one.

It's not hatred. It's not big or pronounced. She's just boring and mildly irritating. And it's annoying because this comic wasn't otherwise lacking for a cast of more interesting characters to use.

^ This, pretty much.

This story was "Beatrice does something extremely shitty, thus forcing Hannelore's hand once and for all."

Tilly was basically a human MacGuffin whose introduction into the comic was slow, heavy-handed and unnecessary. For me, they added nothing of substance to the story arc. It felt like they were being used to fill a weeks worth of pages, but nothing beyond that. Tilly may become a part of the QC crew, but me personally, I don't see any benefit in keeping them.

That being said, todays comic made even *me* want to hug Tilly. MacGuffin or not, no one deserves being used as a pawn and have their dreams crushed with so much... indifference, as Beatrice did!

[Tova]

Instead we've had Hannelore be the backup spoon drawer for a new character that hasn't earned it, because they need to steal spotlight to jumpstart their position in the story.

Can you explain this sentence to me? I don't grok what it is saying.

[bhtooefr]

In disability and mental illness culture, there's a metaphor based around "having spoons" - spoons effectively being a sort of currency that has to be spent to go through the day, and have a variable daily allocation.

So, someone being "out of spoons" is mentally unable to continue doing anything that day, and on a bad day (when their disability or mental illness is particularly severe), they'll have a low allocation of spoons to begin with - maybe not even enough to get out of bed.

[Neko_Ali]

This entire year has absolutely wrecked my spoon drawer for instance... Between idiots in office actively trying to make the world a more miserable place, enhanced work stress and an atmosphere of hostility both for people in general and against people like me in specific I've really not got a lot left to deal with day to day life. Another way I've heard to describe this sort of 'mental fuel tank' in a more geeky way is describing like the D&D (Vancian) magic system. You only have so many 'spell slots' per day to do things with and you have to manage them carefully. Little things like brushing your teeth or getting your mail might be first level slots. Bigger things like calling strangers might be higher levels. Cutting an abusive parent out of your life might require expending several high level slots that will wipe you out afterwards leaving you not able to deal with anything for a while until you get to take some 'long rests' and recover.

SO if you hated Tilly because they hurt Hanners, and now not only has Tilly expressed remorse for doing so, but Hanners has also clearly forgiven them, my question to you is - can you do the same?

It's an important distinction that I didn't like Tilly not because they harassed Hannelore, but because of their push 'won't take no for an answer' attitude. Because they actively refused to respect boundaries even when they were clearly outlined for them. Now that Tilly has recognized, acknowledged and is remorseful for what they did maybe I can move past that, so long as they change. And not just to Hanners, but everyone.

[RMc]

No. Tilly still doesn't feel like a person. They are a collection of aggravating traits designed to move the Hanners story on. Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.

Tilly's that way to inoculate the character from criticism. ("How DARE you criticize them, you horrible bigot!")

Terrible character, unengaging plot.

Yep and yep.

And, hey, for a "corporate demigod", Beatrice is quite the pushover, isn't she? But, of course, she's not allowed to push back against the beloved Hannelore; if she did, fangirls would burn down the entire internet. (Not that that would necessarily be a bad thing.)

So...no resolution, just hugging and dull-as-dishwater dialogue. Geez. Forget taking a week off, Jeph...sounds like you need a year or two away from the drawing board.

[shanejayell]

Eh. Well, hopefully with this arc over (?) we can move on to Union Robotics bits, or Coffee of doom or whatever.

[pwhodges]

Jeph...sounds like you need a year or two away from the drawing board.

Global Moderator Comment

Criticism is one thing, but no personal insults are allowed here

[Is it cold in here?]

So it's not as simple as "Use thou when you would use I/she/he, thee when you would use me/her/him, thy when you would use my/her/his, and thine for mine/hers/his"?

But we (all English speakers, not just non-binary folk or the denzians of this forum) are struggling with third (spoken of) person pronouns and thee/thou/thine is second (spoken to) person.  Using "them" just shifts the awkward bit from number to person.  (I can still hear Sister Mary Knucklewhacker making us chant, "Person, Number, Gender, Case.)

No one faction gets to declare changes to languages, especially English - the larger community will have to arrive at consensus.

But moderators can set an example and pass along what we have learned from non binary people about how much this means to them.

[Is it cold in here?]

Snot on my shirt. That's what friends are for.

[gajatko]

Honestly I was suprised how well Hanners handled Tilly's fluids in the last panel of #3640. Seems like she's making some serious progress with her OCD, a few years ago she'd run out in panic if somebody as much as hugged her. Face fluidssss. I hope that she will make up with her mother eventually. #3638 was a really depressing strip.

Ring in the Year to Come Your 2018 Wish List:
OGLAF creator's guest strip. It's risky... but I think Pintsize is ready to take it

[Smallest]

Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not  moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.

Hate or dislike or be bored with Tilly and this arc all you want, but fuck that. Diverse genders should exist independently of whether they further the storyline.

[OldGoat]

Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not  moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.

Hate or dislike or be bored with Tilly and this arc all you want, but fuck that. Diverse genders should exist independently of whether they further the storyline.

Agree.  It's Jeph's universe - he gets to people it with whoever or whatever he wants (here we have magic bandicoots,  yelling birds, and sentient turkeys).  If you don't like it, read something else or draw your own strip.  There's lots of web comics that seem to do okay with shitty art as long as the writing is clever or good, so "I can't draw" is no bar.

[Smallest]

Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not  moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.

Hate or dislike or be bored with Tilly and this arc all you want, but fuck that. Diverse genders should exist independently of whether they further the storyline.

Agree.  It's Jeph's universe - he gets to people it with whoever or whatever he wants (here we have magic bandicoots,  yelling birds, and sentient turkeys).  If you don't like it, read something else or draw your own strip.  There's lots of web comics that seem to do okay with shitty art as long as the writing is clever or good, so "I can't draw" is no bar.

Respectfully, this was less of a 'it's Jeph's world' thing and more of a 'we [trans and NB people] don't exist to further cis plotlines' thing.

[Reaver]

I really don't care what Tilly identifies as, that's just a characteristic like "they  have  blonde hair and brown eyes" I don't get the vemom that people are spewing about them, nor do I get why people are being so nasty as to imply that  Jeph needs to take a break from the comic because they don't like where it is going.

I mean I didn't like the "check your privilleges"  arch, but respected Jeph's right to tell the story he wants with his characters 8I

[snufflebottoms]

I mean I didn't like the "check your privileges"  arch, but respected Jeph's right to tell the story he wants with his characters 8I

Agreed. I was not a fan of that arc at all. And honestly, I really don't like Tilly. I do think Tilly's gender is meant to be a statement (one I happen to disagree with) but ... BUT it is Jeph's arc, Jeph's characters and the world he created with his views, idea, etc.

If Tilly stays around and continues to dominate the comic, I might stop reading because they are super annoying (for a multitude of reason - not just because they bring up the issue of whether gender is binary or not) but that really doesn't affect Jeph one way or the other. I'm not going to tell him stop writing, especially not on his own forum. I mean, other people will still enjoy the story so it should continue. It's life. Sometimes, a work stops appealing to a particular fan and that person can move on.