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Poll

What will Faye say next to Bubbles?

"My sister is crazy! She thinks you want romance in your life!"
- 6 (10.9%)
"What did you say to Evie? She was really quizzing me on you!"
- 9 (16.4%)
"Bubbles? Bubbles, are... Are you lonely?"
- 12 (21.8%)
"So, I'm hearing that you want some robo-lovin'!"
- 3 (5.5%)
""Um... Do... Do you want a boyfriend? I mean, I want you to know I'm cool with it if you do!"
- 6 (10.9%)
"So... I hear you guys can download pleasure programs! You got any of those installed?"
- 1 (1.8%)
"So... Uh... Speakin' hypothetically, how does an AI go about gettin' a significant other?"
- 6 (10.9%)
"Imagine if the Skate Park was a Robot Sex Dungeon! What would have we done then?"
- 1 (1.8%)
"My baby sis in a serious relationship! Everyone is pairing up except me! Oh Bubs! Will I ever get lucky?"
- 4 (7.3%)
Other (please specify in a comment)
- 7 (12.7%)

Total Members Voted: 53


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT strips 3666 to 3670 (29th January to 2nd February 2018)  (Read 54550 times)

oeoek

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I impressed with Faye's remembering Bubbles mood straight away (because I surely would have forgotten about it by the time i got back from a diner like that, and would have felt guilty about that only later, when I did remember (usually in bed)).
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JoeCovenant

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This is why I still dislike Faye "my usual threats of violence won't work" its her go to, its her first reaction

Shes, still, just a really unpleasant garbage person.

Take no other meaning from this than the bare words below:

If this is your interpretation of Faye...
You might be reading the wrong kinda webcomics... for you.   :cry:
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oddtail

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This is why I still dislike Faye "my usual threats of violence won't work" its her go to, its her first reaction

Shes, still, just a really unpleasant garbage person.

Take no other meaning from this than the bare words below:

If this is your interpretation of Faye...
You might be reading the wrong kinda webcomics... for you.   :cry:

To be fair, I *would* say that Faye and her brand of "talking" to people is less than acceptable - or at least it would be in real life. It's important to remember that fiction works on its own terms. I believe the TvTropes term for Faye's attitude and how the comic frames it is "comedic sociopathy". At least in terms of her violent behaviour and words.

That being said, even from a realistic standpoint I wouldn't call Faye a "garbage person". She's flawed, and some of her behaviour has been inexcusable (YMMV), but "garbage" is WAY too harsh, in my opinion. She's more often thoughtless, self-centred and impulsive than any kind of malicious.
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Case

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Maybe the whole arc is a "F**k you" to the shippers here?

Know what? That's just not very nice.

Shes, still, just a really unpleasant garbage person.

Is that the same as a 'mean poopoohead'?
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pwhodges

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This is why I still dislike Faye "my usual threats of violence won't work" its her go to, its her first reaction

Then presumably you're glad to see her changing, and perhaps moving towards becoming the person you'd like her to be.
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Technoir

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Since everybody else has delved into the socio-emotional aspects of today's strip, allow me to ask..

What happened to panel #5?
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Zebediah

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Same thing  that happened to panel #6 in this. It's just a stylistic thing Jeph does from time to time to highlight certain beats.
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Tova

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Those two are good for each other.
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pwhodges

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What happened to panel #5?

It's the kind of exaggerated simplification or distortion which is commonly used in anime (Japanese animation) to make a point.  Jeph is a fan of anime and manga (Emily's surname - Azuma - is that of a Japanese manga artist).
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APersonAmI

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I also think of Faye as a garbage person because of her frequent and unwarranted violence and threats of violence. I am glad she might possibly to be taking steps that might eventually lead her unto a path that will slowly take her to a place where she has a slight chance of becoming somewhat less likely to do so, but considering she made a threat of physical violence in the last comic, and only just stopped herself from doing so this comic, she is very much still a garbage person.

Also, let me remind you, she didn't stop herself from threatening violence this comic because that would be wrong, or rude, or a violation of her friendship with Bubbles, but because the person she wants to threaten is physically stronger than her.

Let me also remind you that she is displeased that she thus cannot do the wrong, rude violation of her friendship with Bubbles, which is what she actually wanted.

Yeah, saying that she has begun moving away from such behaviours seems to me either naive or disingenuous, and saying that she has already moved away from them is plain wrong.

Verdict: garbage person.

Edited for spelling.
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dutchrvl

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I also think of Faye as a garbage person because of her frequent and unwarranted violence and threats of violence. I am glad she might possibly to be taking steps that might eventually lead her unto a path that will slowly take her to a place where she has a slight chance of becoming somewhat less likely to do so, but considering she made a threat of physical violence in the last comic, and only just stopped herself from doing so this comic, she is very much still a garbage person.

Also, let me remind you, she didn't stop herself from threatening violence this comic because that would be wrong, or rude, or a violation of her friendship with Bubbles, but because the person she wants to threaten is physically stronger than her.

Let me also remind you that she is displeased that she thus cannot do the wrong, rude violation of her friendship with Bubbles, which is what she actually wanted.

Yeah, saying that she has begun moving away from such behaviours seems to me either naive or disingenuous, and saying that she has already moved away from them is plain wrong.

Verdict: garbage person.

Edited for spelling.

Honest Question: do you see Faye as a malicious person? If so, perhaps your interpretation of the comic is outside the 2 SD limit.
 While I see Faye as a person with some serious flaws (that she has to some extent worked on), I have never interpreted her actions, or threats of violence, as malicious in intent.
Most of her threats of physical violence have been mostly in jest, imo, but YMMV. As far as the threat in the last comic you refer to, I don't know where you are from of course, but where I'm from (Europe+USA) it's really not that uncommon to say something like that when a new SO enters your friend/family-member's life. Said mostly in jest of course, with the undertone of "if you hurt them I may not physically harm you but will be very angry with you", and easily understood as such by the SO. Again, YMMV.
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Case

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I'm going to be very, very disappointed with the next poster calling anyone a 'garbage person'. Seriously, there might be tears ...

Jokes aside: Are we doing it again? Already? It's been barely a day since everyone agreed we're fed up with all the negativity and myopia and "Raaaarrrrghhh! I HATE xyz and y'all HAVE to know why, in excrutiating detail!!!"
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daphne

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I agree with the poster who said that in real life, Faye would certainly be a garbage person, but this is comic. There is a certain comedic and exaggerated element in faye's behaviour. I don't think the character is to be taken as an example of real-life abusive behaviour.
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APersonAmI

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@dutchrvl

I appreciate the polite response. The honest answer is that I don't care if she's malicious or not. She hits people and she threatens people with violence for reasons I would consider flimsy, therefore I don't like her. Whether she does it to hurt others or whether she just doesn't think about the effects of her actions isn't that important to me, emotionally.

On the SO thing - this comic has an arc about a girl on a Vespa beating up exes. Attacking somebody when a relationship goes bad is not remotely unrealistic or comical in the fictional world of QC.
(Nor do I find it unrealistic or comical in the real world, either. Exes frequently get murdered. I don't really find it an absurdist silly statement.)

@daphne

I'm cool with this take on fictional events. I don't get it however. Mainly, because Faye's violence or threats thereof are not exaggerated. People do violence to people a lot. A person doing violence to people for no reason isn't silly absurdism, it is something that happens literally every day. It is common, ordinary, and realistic, and therefore not funny.

Also, even if it wasn't so common in real life, I just don't find violence funny. I am aware that other people find violence comical, and that's cool if no real people are actually getting hurt, but I really, really don't get the appeal.

I guess I'm wierd like that :P
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dutchrvl

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@dutchrvl

I appreciate the polite response. The honest answer is that I don't care if she's malicious or not. She hits people and she threatens people with violence for reasons I would consider flimsy, therefore I don't like her. Whether she does it to hurt others or whether she just doesn't think about the effects of her actions isn't that important to me, emotionally.

On the SO thing - this comic has an arc about a girl on a Vespa beating up exes. Attacking somebody when a relationship goes bad is not remotely unrealistic or comical in the fictional world of QC.
(Nor do I find it unrealistic or comical in the real world, either. Exes frequently get murdered. I don't really find it an absurdist silly statement.)


Edited out your response to Daphne.
That's of course all well taken, but wouldn't you say that Faye's threat to Evie was clearly in jest? (highlighted by her introducing it with "I'm obligated to...")

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dutchrvl

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Perhaps I am the odd one out.

For me personally, the threshold to call another human being "garbage" (i.e. worthless, to be discarded) is very, very high, and I typically only use that qualification if the person has shown evil intent.

People with flawed behaviors who unintentionally (without malice) hurt others typically don't qualify as garbage to me, especially if I know that the person has a backstory that may have something to do with certain behavioral patterns. I may strongly dislike them, avoid interactions, call them a*holes/d*cks/jerks/etc, but they'd still not be garbage.

To each their own. 
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Neko_Ali

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The thing about AIs and their age relative to humans vs their maturity is that they seem to be released into the wild fully formed and... well as mature as they get. We have never seen AI as children. If I remember when we first met Momo she was only about three years old, yet she was far more mature than Marigold. Heck she was a more responsible person than most of the cast. I don't know if they are 'born' fully cognitive out of the experience of other AI that came before them or they spend time learning before interacting with the human world but their maturity level and experience with emotion even at a low chronological age seems comparable to adult humans. With the wide range of experience that encompasses.
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shanejayell

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Its weird. Even when they're cranky or pissy with each other, I still go AWWWW when Faye and Bubbles interact.  :-D

dutchrvl

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The thing about AIs and their age relative to humans vs their maturity is that they seem to be released into the wild fully formed and... well as mature as they get. We have never seen AI as children. If I remember when we first met Momo she was only about three years old, yet she was far more mature than Marigold. Heck she was a more responsible person than most of the cast. I don't know if they are 'born' fully cognitive out of the experience of other AI that came before them or they spend time learning before interacting with the human world but their maturity level and experience with emotion even at a low chronological age seems comparable to adult humans. With the wide range of experience that encompasses.

Interesting points. At the same time, Momo has displayed a certain curiosity and behavior (especially in her interactions with Sam) that appears more similar to that of a teenager. It seems that AIs are 'released' fully mature in the sense of general knowledge and cognitive skills, but without the experience-informed emotional maturity.
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Is it cold in here?

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Momo acted like a teenager in some ways early on ("I'll void my warranty! Then you'll be sorry!"). The maturity and responsibility came later, interestingly about the same time as the humaniform chassis. She still acts more like a 20-year-old than a 60-year-old emotionally.

Faye is taking initiative to deal with the emotional well-being of a friend. That would have been surprising and maybe even impossible for pre-therapy Faye.
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APersonAmI

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In real life, if someone said that they would murder me, I would think less of that person. If someone I just met just hours before did that, it wouldn't matter to me if there is a possibility that they did it "in jest", I would think less of them.

I was going to say that I would be okay with someone I was a close friend with said they would murder me if it was clearly a joke and they had a significantly better delivery then Faye had in the comic, but actually thinking about it, no, I'd still see that as a character flaw. I once did something like that (in a more absurd way. The other person said "I would erect a magic shield before you could" in response, clearly taking it to be facetious), but I see me doing that as a sign of character flaws I had yet to resolve.

If someone says they will murder somebody else, I will think less of that person. If I say I will murder somebody, I will think less of myself. Especially so if you don't know eachother that well, but also in general.

Perhaps I am the odd one out.

For me personally, the threshold to call another human being "garbage" (i.e. worthless, to be discarded) is very, very high, and I typically only use that qualification if the person has shown evil intent.

People with flawed behaviors who unintentionally (without malice) hurt others typically don't qualify as garbage to me, especially if I know that the person has a backstory that may have something to do with certain behavioral patterns. I may strongly dislike them, avoid interactions, call them a*holes/d*cks/jerks/etc, but they'd still not be garbage.

To each their own. 
Fair. As for myself, it is not a word I would have chosen in a vacuum. I tend to act more forcefully when I feel as if violent people are defended, or if I feel people who question violent people are criticized. I would not have chosen ďgarbageĒ as a descriptor in my initial post were it not for this trait.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018, 07:39 by APersonAmI »
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MrNumbers

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I like the person Faye has become.
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dutchrvl

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In real life, if someone said that they would murder me, I would think less of that person. If someone I just met just hours before did that, it wouldn't matter to me if there is a possibility that they did it "in jest", I would think less of them.

I was going to say that I would be okay with someone I was a close friend with said they would murder me if it was clearly a joke and they had a significantly better delivery then Faye had in the comic, but actually thinking about it, no, I'd still see that as a character flaw. I once did something like that (in a more absurd way. The other person said "I would erect a magic shield before you could" in response, clearly taking it to be facetious), but I see me doing that as a sign of character flaws I had yet to resolve.

If someone says they will murder somebody else, I will think less of that person. If I say I will murder somebody, I will think less of myself. Especially so if you don't know eachother that well, but also in general.

Fair enough. As you already mentioned, you seem to have very low tolerance (not saying that that's a negative by the way) for using violence in any way, including jokes.

Perhaps I am the odd one out.

For me personally, the threshold to call another human being "garbage" (i.e. worthless, to be discarded) is very, very high, and I typically only use that qualification if the person has shown evil intent.

People with flawed behaviors who unintentionally (without malice) hurt others typically don't qualify as garbage to me, especially if I know that the person has a backstory that may have something to do with certain behavioral patterns. I may strongly dislike them, avoid interactions, call them a*holes/d*cks/jerks/etc, but they'd still not be garbage.

To each their own. 
Fair. As for myself, it is not a word I would have chosen in a vacuum. I tend to act more forcefully when I feel as if violent people are defended, or if I feel people who question violent people are criticized. I would not have chosen ďgarbageĒ as a descriptor in my initial post were it not for this trait.

I appreciate your honesty. You do realize though that your description/opinion of another person therefore depends on the opinions of 3rd parties.
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dutchrvl

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I like the person Faye has become.

So do I, actually. I have some people in my life who may on the surface display very good behavior to other people (always polite etc.), but who are not attuned to other peoples' emotions very well and/or lack the capability/desire to function as a support system. I'd rather have Faye.   
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SpanielBear

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Out of interest, I really can't recall- when did Faye last actually indulge in physical violence? I get the impression that since the comic has grown more self-reflective, focusing on realistic emotional fall-out rather than absurdist slapstick (YMMV if that perception is correct or not, of course), incidents of actual physical violence by the cast have dropped hugely.

As far as threatening it is concerned- yeah, it's not cool that Faye does default to that so often, but a) it's rare she does so outside of obvious hyperbole, especially recently, and b) writing her off as a garbage person because of it seems to ignore the exaggerated misbehaviours of other cast members (Pintsize, May, Tai, Clinton and Dora have all had their moments) which are frequently displayed aspects of their character. If we give Pintsize a pass because this is a comic and his behaviours are obviously exaggerated, why does Faye not get the similar benefit of doubt? Alternatively, if we decide that anyone who has failed to behave righteously in every interaction must be shunned, the number of sympathetic characters in the comic rapidly drops to zero- so again, why single out Faye?

I don't think you have to like Faye. You can even find her unpleasant and objectionable, she certainly has character flaws. But portraying her as somehow egregiously foul and disgusting as a character seems... unnecessarily harsh.
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BenRG

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Out of interest, I really can't recall- when did Faye last actually indulge in physical violence?

The last time I remember it happening is when Marten propositioned her whilst he was stinking drunk and on a bad rebound from Dora dumping him. That was arguably self-defence though as I think it was not inconceivable that he was going to attempt to force himself on her (although he was so drunk I would have considered it more likely that he'd miss even a kiss, let alone anything more mechanically complex).

What I found interesting about that scene and it's aftermath is that Faye's behaviour towards Marten didn't change; indeed she even declined to tell him why he had a black eye, instead, IIRC, making up some story about him falling over whilst drunk. That was a truly kind thing to do because I think realising that he'd got that out of control would have destroyed him.

[EDIT]
Having thought about it, I recall her more recently hitting Angus but, once again, that was arguably self-defence or at least justifiable on the grounds that Angus during the early phase of their relationship was creepy almost to the point of being a stalker.
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David F

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Since it's a slow day, I figured I'd go read part of the archives.  The last person Faye hit was Corpse Witch, in #3365.  With cause, and major consequences.

Interestingly, Bubbles has been more violent since then, to Corpse Witch a little later, and then shaking Clinton (#3525) when he suggested she was sleeping with Faye.  And there was the door incident in #3564 leading to refinement of the Claire Threat Evaluation Protocol...

Even Hannelore has been more violent recently.
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Case

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Perhaps I am the odd one out.

For me personally, the threshold to call another human being "garbage" (i.e. worthless, to be discarded) is very, very high, and I typically only use that qualification if the person has shown evil intent.

Nope, you're not alone - we're at least two oddballs.

Mayhaps my socialization as a German makes me more sensitive to the connotations: Calling people 'garbage person', or 'human garbage' is a pretty unambiguous violation of their human dignity. Which, in turn, has really ugly historical connotations, and has been used as a means to incite against vulnerable minorities, or suppress political dissent. Truth be told, I find that at least as offensive as 'playful threats of violence', and I don't like those to begin with. Habitually violent people are jerks, true - but violating the human dignity of others is often taken by jerks as a permission to be violent, to give just one example.

I get where people are coming from with disliking even comedic violence, and I feel similar, believe me. But I do think that 'garbage person' is coming close to the line where the cure starts becoming as toxic as the poison.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018, 10:36 by Case »
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dutchrvl

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Perhaps I am the odd one out.

For me personally, the threshold to call another human being "garbage" (i.e. worthless, to be discarded) is very, very high, and I typically only use that qualification if the person has shown evil intent.

Nope, you're not alone - we're at least two oddballs.

Mayhaps my socialization as a German makes me more sensitive to the connotations: Calling people 'garbage person', or 'human garbage' is a pretty unambiguous violation of their human dignity. Which, in turn, has really ugly historical connotations, and has been used as a means to incite against vulnerable minorities, or suppress political dissent. Truth be told, I find that at least as offensive as 'playful threats of violence', and I don't like those to begin with. Habitually violent people are jerks, true - but violating the human dignity of others is often taken by jerks as a permission to be violent, to give just one example.

I get where people are coming from with disliking even comedic violence, and I feel similar, believe me. But I do think that 'garbage person' is coming close to the line where the cure starts becoming as toxic as the poison.

Well howdy then neighbor (I'm Dutch and was there until 24, but have been living in Japan for 2 years and now the USA for 10).
(your last line incidentally is also why I feel the more radical left groups in the US right now are not doing the left in general a favor, but that's a different story altogether...)
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SpanielBear

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Calling people 'garbage person', or 'human garbage' is a pretty unambiguous violation of their human dignity.

I think this actually gets to the heart of my problem with the phrase as well, also why I felt the need to defend Evie last week- I think it's the dismissal based on absolutes that gets to me. I can't see any reason to object to someone not liking a character, or if they don't like what a character is doing. It's when characters (or people in general in fact) get labelled as *objectively* irredeemable that I find my metaphorical hackles rising. No one is perfect, and everyone screws up. Perfection is an unreasonable standard to hold people to, especially if the price of falling beneath it is to become eternally reviled. And to assume then that because someone has behaved badly once all their behaviours must be suspect is frankly exhausting.

Again, I'm not saying one has to like or even tolerate people or behaviours one finds unpleasant. But if we make them entirely other, something less than we are, we are ignoring the need of self-reflection and the possibility that we ought to check our own behaviours to ensure there aren't uncomfortable paralells. "If bad behaviours are only done by garbage people, and I know I am not a garbage person, my behaviours cannot be bad". I don't for a moment believe that anyone here actually thinks like this, but I worry that characters/people get judged too quickly.
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This is going to hurt me as much as it hurts you, but there actually is such a thing as too much bacon.
Fake news, you and my cardiologist have just been taken in by the man!
Open your eyes, sheeple!
Beer never hurt anyone, well except the guy who was run over by a Tun of Beer or the others who drowned - one in a fermenter the other in the warehouse from the CO2 buildup.
Same goes for Bacon where people have been crushed, smothered, drowned, set on fire and stabbed with bacon.

It is a madd madd world out there - it's also pretty dang crazy in here as well - in all things symmetry.  :-D
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Zebediah

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And as long as we're discussing food-related mortality, let's not leave out the Great Molasses Flood of 1919, which killed 21 people in the North End of Boston.
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Case

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Resolving tension by means of BizarreFoodAccidents-digression?  Yay!  :laugh:

https://www.thedailymeal.com/food-deaths-through-history

My favourite:
Quote
Sir Francis Bacon: The former British Lord Chancellor died in 1626 of pneumonia supposedly contracted while stuffing a chicken with snow to test a theory about its preservative properties. You hate to be insensitive, but Pip Wilson's poem is pretty funny: "Against cold meats was he insured? For frozen chickens he procured ó brought on the illness he endured, and never was this Bacon cured."
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Storel

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too much anime

I don't recognise this concept.

I think it's one of those concepts like "Too much bacon" that horrible people make up to try to harm mankind.

Oh, like "too much chocolate"!
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Is it cold in here?

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Again, I'm not saying one has to like or even tolerate people or behaviours one finds unpleasant. But if we make them entirely other, something less than we are, we are ignoring the need of self-reflection and the possibility that we ought to check our own behaviours to ensure there aren't uncomfortable paralells. "If bad behaviours are only done by garbage people, and I know I am not a garbage person, my behaviours cannot be bad". I don't for a moment believe that anyone here actually thinks like this, but I worry that characters/people get judged too quickly.

Akima is I believe the one who raised the point in DISCUSS that if we think of ourselves as good people it blinds us to when we do bad things. I forget if it was her or someone else who suggested cultivating humility and compassion as opposed to striving to feel virtuous.

--------------

I can't figure out whether I'm being a moderator when I say this so please tolerate ambiguity.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people here must have had backgrounds of witnessing or experiencing violence. When they don't see the humor in Faye they've got good reason.
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SpanielBear

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I can't figure out whether I'm being a moderator when I say this so please tolerate ambiguity.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people here must have had backgrounds of witnessing or experiencing violence. When they don't see the humor in Faye they've got good reason.

I completely appreciate that.
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Pennepasta

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I can't figure out whether I'm being a moderator when I say this so please tolerate ambiguity.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people here must have had backgrounds of witnessing or experiencing violence. When they don't see the humor in Faye they've got good reason.

But at the same time "Your sense of humour - regardless of when you reign it in - makes you a garbage person" is rather insulting. Sure, I have a dark sense of humour - but does that make me subhuman? Even if I don't actually use said dark sense of humour around people I don't know well or that I know would not appreciate it?
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Cornelius

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That might be taking things a bit too far. The important thing, I think, is to avoid absolutes. That makes life around others quite a lot easier.

I had intended to reply more fully in this thread, but Case and SpanielBear seem to have made the points I was going to make. Let's just sum it up, by saying that before we judge someone to be garbage, it would be good take a long look in the mirror first. There's a thing about casting first stones.

I'm not saying that there aren't people who actually deserve that label but, thankfully, they are not many.

Still, I liked today's comic. Faye's concern for Bubbles is touching, and part of why I picked her asking Bubbles is she is lonely, which was my interpretation of her mood, as they left for dinner. Hopefully it helps Faye realise that violence, even if only in jest, isn't always the answer. Bubbles' assessment of the threat does show how much she values Faye, though.

And yes, too much bacon will kill you. Especially if it's still alive, and angry.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018, 13:37 by Cornelius »
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dutchrvl

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Actually, I realized that I do not fully understand why shippers want to see a romantic relationship between Faye and Bubbles, as opposed to simply a very strong and intimate friendship, which they have been developing for some time now.

Could one of the shippers elucidate this?

To me, the cuteness (squee?) factor would not really increase if they'd become romantic instead of what they have now, so I'm curious what the added appeal is of a romantic development. 
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APersonAmI

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I had initially decided not to respond further to this thread, but yeah, no, I have said things that really should be clarified. Which means I'm going to share some things I'm not entirely comfortable sharing, but fuck it, it's important for context. Not meant as an excuse, it doesnít matter what my issues are, its actions that matter, but I think it is necessary for context.

The way my brain processes emotion pretty unusual. I stop feeling emotions really fast. I noticed it for the first time when I was 17, 9 years ago, when I was in a very heated argument with a classmate, where we both shouted loudly at each other. I left right after. About five minutes after the argument, a teacher called to make sure I was okay, and at first, I didn't realize what she was talking about. Shortly after I left, I had completely stopped thinking about it, and had to be reminded of the argument to remember it at all. I remember laughing about it over the phone. At the time I made my last post in this thread, the emotions that made me make the first post were alien to me. They were genuine at that moment, but now, I can no longer remember them. I can psychoanalyze to look at what triggered them, but from my current point of view, it's like looking at the actions of somebody else.

For a long time, I've just assumed that this is another aspect of my Asperger's syndrome. I realized this evening that I never actually gotten my memory problems diagnosed, and it is possible that it is trauma related. Because, when I describe it like this, it sounds an awful lot like dissociation. Which is quite common in people who were abused as children. And, props to Is It Cold In Here for their wisdom on this one, but yeah, I've experienced a lot of violence. I spent an hour tonight trying to remember every violent event Iíve experienced, but I couldnít. Ballpark guess, I might be able to remember maybe half of it. Iíve literally experienced more violence than I can count.

All this adds up to me having a lot of difficulties participating in forums like this one. If it feels low-key like your last comment was written by somebody else (it wasn't, it was written by me, but it was written while under the influence of emotions I canít remember having), it can be difficult to respond to replies to that comment. Do I feel differently because I was wrong, or is it my condition?

Okay, I think that's most of the context established, perhaps I can finally get to the point now.

I am now of the opinion that I was wrong to use the word garbage person. It was way too strong a word for what I was attempting to convey. Part of the issue for me is that Faye has gradually become less violent, but I didn't feel as if her initial violence was every really resolved, and have therefore had trouble giving her the same leeway I might be willing to give real person. I'm still not cool with how automatic threats of murder are to her, but "garbage person" was the wrong word to use.

However, I didn't mean to say anything about anyone posting in this thread, and I definitely did not mean that just having an emotion, but not acting on it, makes one a bad person. I'm against acts of violence and threats of violence, but thoughts of violence are not wrong to have. What goes on in our heads only matters insofar as we let it affect the world around us.

I can't figure out whether I'm being a moderator when I say this so please tolerate ambiguity.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people here must have had backgrounds of witnessing or experiencing violence. When they don't see the humor in Faye they've got good reason.

But at the same time "Your sense of humour - regardless of when you reign it in - makes you a garbage person" is rather insulting. Sure, I have a dark sense of humour - but does that make me subhuman? Even if I don't actually use said dark sense of humour around people I don't know well or that I know would not appreciate it?

Not sure why you put that in quotes, Pennepasta, because nobody in this thread said that. In fact, I specifically clarified I wasn't saying that.

Also, even if it wasn't so common in real life, I just don't find violence funny. I am aware that other people find violence comical, and that's cool if no real people are actually getting hurt, but I really, really don't get the appeal.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018, 14:31 by APersonAmI »
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Case

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@APersonAmI: I'm sorry for what you had to go through. And I don't think less of you because you feel so strongly about 'comedic violence' - not even before you explained your background. Anger, even extreme expressions of it (not that you've come close to what I'd call extreme), are understandable. They are human.

I don't mean to pry, so feel free to ignore the question: Could it be that you felt like 'we' (the people who objected to 'garbage person') were defending bullies, like we were taking the side of people like those who hurt you? And that it was important to point out that that'd be wrong?

Because ... no that's not how it is. There's a place here for you and your anger - and for the (hopefully gentle and helpful) reminders that some terminology can be harmful. When I say I cannot stand by silently when de-humanizing terminology is used, that does not mean that I reject you, or your feelings. And it's only human to find it difficult to see the humanity of people who torment others. It is difficult for me, and I can count the numbers of times I've experienced (rather benign degrees of) violence.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018, 15:33 by Case »
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"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg
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blt

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Actually, I realized that I do not fully understand why shippers want to see a romantic relationship between Faye and Bubbles, as opposed to simply a very strong and intimate friendship, which they have been developing for some time now.

Could one of the shippers elucidate this?

To me, the cuteness (squee?) factor would not really increase if they'd become romantic instead of what they have now, so I'm curious what the added appeal is of a romantic development.

I would be fine with either honestly. 

I lean towards a shipping side because I interpret their past interactions as telegraphing (from a story telling perspective) a progression to a romantic relationship, and think it would be a logical payoff.

Sometimes it seems like this forum strains to interpret events as having absolutely NO chance of foreshadowing a romantic relationship, because of the moratorium on shipping.
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Tova

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As the forum's Official Friendshipper*, I will just chip in here and say that at this point, it would be pretty brave to say that there is NO chance of a romantic relationship developing. Of course there is a chance.

I've said in the past that I found it unlikely, but stuff has happened since then. As of now, I honestly don't know which way this will go.

If anyone does believe there is no chance, it's probably not because of the moratorium on shipping. They probably hold their beliefs for their own reasons, just like you.

* Respect my headcanon, pls.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

Pennepasta

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I can't figure out whether I'm being a moderator when I say this so please tolerate ambiguity.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people here must have had backgrounds of witnessing or experiencing violence. When they don't see the humor in Faye they've got good reason.

But at the same time "Your sense of humour - regardless of when you reign it in - makes you a garbage person" is rather insulting. Sure, I have a dark sense of humour - but does that make me subhuman? Even if I don't actually use said dark sense of humour around people I don't know well or that I know would not appreciate it?

Not sure why you put that in quotes, Pennepasta, because nobody in this thread said that. In fact, I specifically clarified I wasn't saying that.

Also, even if it wasn't so common in real life, I just don't find violence funny. I am aware that other people find violence comical, and that's cool if no real people are actually getting hurt, but I really, really don't get the appeal.

Gotcha. I think I'd misinterpreted your comments earlier about people talking about killing in jest - I do apologize (I have this strange disconnect between violence and death; violence tends to suck, but killing is fair game to me for humour etc., hence why I skimmed that part of your earlier post). I have a tendency at times to take things personally (usually a good indicator my mood's wonky and I should GTFO from the internet), and get overdefensive - on reflection with what was said, I seem to have done that here, so sorry. Have a pint of tea as a make-up gift.

Further apologies if I caused you to say more background of yours than you're comfortable with, particularly as it was caused by a misunderstanding on my end. There's never a need to justify yourself if it's going to be painful/hard to do; you are you.
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Tova

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COMIC

Well, that was cathartic. Let's discuss it.

Over tea and crumpets.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

Case

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Well, that was cathartic. Let's discuss it. Over tea and crumpets.

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"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg
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"Brains are assholes" - SitnSpin

A small perverse otter

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"AGH! Humans are so STUPID sometimes!"

I think that may be the best summary of Evie's and Amanda's behavior in this arc.  Also, Faye being kind, supportive, and mature? Who is this unknown character in this comic?

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"AGH! Humans are so STUPID sometimes!" -- QC #3668

Is it cold in here?

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I can't figure out whether I'm being a moderator when I say this so please tolerate ambiguity.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people here must have had backgrounds of witnessing or experiencing violence. When they don't see the humor in Faye they've got good reason.

But at the same time "Your sense of humour - regardless of when you reign it in - makes you a garbage person" is rather insulting. Sure, I have a dark sense of humour - but does that make me subhuman? Even if I don't actually use said dark sense of humour around people I don't know well or that I know would not appreciate it?

Global Moderator Comment If anyone says that about you hit the Report to Moderator button. We take such things very seriously.
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ImVeryAngryItsNotButter

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I do find it a little odd that Bubbles doesn't interpret Faye's "tea and crumpets" suggestion as a glib remark. To my knowledge people in the U.S. almost never suggest that in earnest.

EDIT: nvm cant read lol
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018, 19:46 by ImVeryAngryItsNotButter »
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Case

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I do find it a little odd that Bubbles doesn't interpret Faye's "tea and crumpets" suggestion as a glib remark. To my knowledge people in the U.S. almost never suggest that in earnest.

I read it as Faye asking "Tea and Crumpets? Where did you get that from? We're in the US - nobody suggests Tea and Crumpets, not even rich people's children ..."
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"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg
"The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you donít know you're a member of the Dunning-Kruger club. People miss that." - David Dunning
"Brains are assholes" - SitnSpin
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