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Total Members Voted: 55

[Jakk Frost]

"It's very Oglaf-colored in Marigold's brain"

Well what else would you expect from a fujoshi?

[traroth]

So I think we can safely conclude Marigold doesn't know Emily very well...

[cloudatlatl]

We've seen jealousy before, but have we ever seen a QC character actually cheat on a relationship?

.....Sven....

Okay, this is a technicality, but that was not an established exclusive relationship.  So if that's the only example of cheating in QC, we still have never seen cheating in the context of an established, official, monogamous relationship.
I know it would destroy our characters emotionally but that's what Jeph does, and here's how I see it playing out: Emily is just a fun, spontaneous person.  She once kissed Marten out of nowhere, and maybe she has more of an 'open' concept of love and relationships, where she doesn't feel monogamy fits her, and she would rather just express love in each moment as she feels it.  Dale is inexperienced in relationships, and because Emily is the more socially aggressive of the two, I could see him going along with it if Emily starts explaining her thoughts on free love and non-monogamy, so in the moment he doesn't feel like he's actively choosing to cheat on Marigold, but that's what he does, and that is absolutely how Marigold sees it.
This is probably not how this scene is going to play out, but that's just what's been going through my head while reading this week's strips

[JoeCovenant]

So I think we can safely conclude Marigold doesn't know Emily very well...

If she is of the jealous bent, knowing Emily better would make little difference.
Jealousy isn't logical.

I had an ex who's mind worked exactly like Marigolds... even so far as to have the conversations similar to above in her head... except she then acted as if those conversations took place. Loved her to bits... but stealing my mobile - (and knowing I was going out of my mind thinking I had lost it) - to trawl through it for ANY messages to any female friends, and then replying to those messages with "words of affection" to see if she got similar responses back, was the last straw...

Scariest part? She kinda looked like Marigold!

[tut21]

I wouldn't be sad if Marigold went away for several years until she grew up.

[cesium133]

New comic, and Marigold is definitely jealous. Plus, Dale's glasses are both light and dark in this comic. Definitely deliberate. Perhaps it reflects the distance between Dale and Marigold.

His glasses are Google glass ready. How has everyone forgotten that? I imagine he had been looming up the fish pocky.

I hadn't forgotten. I was just considering that he seemed to turn them on the instant Marigold walked in.

[ckridge]

If Marigold has a shred of self-knowledge, she will see that her mind is torturing her for no reason. However, she has largely outsourced self-knowledge to Momo, and Momo is off at her job. Dale could in principle reassure her, but Dale has not shown himself articulate in matters of the heart. Emily is largely an unknown quantity, but has hitherto shown little but spontaneous good will, and it does not look like that is going to be enough here.

The good part is that Marigold is unlikely to spend months or years suffering secret fears silently. The bad part is that she is likely to share the suffering all around.

[ckridge]

Heh. In Dale's place, I would steal Sven's line: "Emily? Nah. Once you hit this, everything else looks flat," with "this" punctuated by a hug. It is often more convincing to present yourself as a bad guy who likes what he likes than as a good guy.

[sitnspin]

Sven didn't cheat because he was never in an exclusive relationship.

[Is it cold in here?]

Okay, this is a technicality, but that was not an established exclusive relationship.  So if that's the only example of cheating in QC, we still have never seen cheating in the context of an established, official, monogamous relationship.

That is accurate about the Gina Riversmith situation.

Genevieve certainly didn't expect to be two-timed and Sven acted like he knew he had done something wrong.

[Is it cold in here?]

Anyone remember the details of Tai going behind the back of one lover? Did that woman think it was monogamous?

[Thrudd]

The lettering on the packaging had me confused.
Savory fish I had originally read as Sparkly Fish and as Japan is quite creative(?) when it comes to snack products I was confused and concerned.
Even more so with the resulting rose colored hallucinations.

[TheEvilDog]

We've seen jealousy before, but have we ever seen a QC character actually cheat on a relationship?

.....Sven....

Okay, this is a technicality, but that was not an established exclusive relationship.  So if that's the only example of cheating in QC, we still have never seen cheating in the context of an established, official, monogamous relationship.

Faye and Sven may not have been dating in the conventional sense, in fact, their entire relationship prior to the Gina Riversmith incident was wholly unconventional.

But it still stung Faye when Sven admitted he had sex with Gina.

But lets look at how things played out. Sven has sex with Gina, where he knew he was in trouble. Sven wants to sweep the whole thing under the carpet, with him eventually trying to justify the whole thing as they weren't in a monogamous relationship.

Key point here, if you're in any kind of relationship, its not an open relationship unless you both have a mature discussion.

But yes, Sven wanted to hide the indiscretion only for his intern to guilt him into being a decent human being. When he reveals to Faye what he did, she goes from excited to destroyed in four panels.

Theirs was an unconventional relationship but it was a relationship, because you don't sleep with someone repeatedly without building some sort of connection. And that was one Sven destroyed by sleeping with another woman.

[OldGoat]

"I did NOT sleep with her.  Eight hours and neither one of us got so much as a wink."

[Welu]

Faye did clearly say if Sven slept with someone else, that their thing would be over. The boundary was set and Sven was aware while it was happening that he was doing something he shouldn't be doing.

So even though Sven says he didn't agree to be monogamous, it doesn't seem he ever expressed that to Faye even when she said that was her expectation. (Edit: Actually rereading that comic, he does jokingly suggest he doesn't agree, but yeah, a serious conversation like Castlerook said could have helped that situation)
Or more like he just didn't plan further ahead than in the moment and hadn't considered the consequences of what Faye said and assumed everything would just work out.

[themacnut]

If Marigold has a shred of self-knowledge, she will see that her mind is torturing her for no reason. However, she has largely outsourced self-knowledge to Momo, and Momo is off at her job. Dale could in principle reassure her, but Dale has not shown himself articulate in matters of the heart.

Marigold is already imagining Dale and Emily engaging is sexy talk; I think at this point Marigold's too far gone into her own jealous fantasies for anything Dale does or says to make it better. Next strip will likely be her going off on them like the volcano Mt Jealousy, belching hot green lava all over the place. Then she'll run off, leaving Dale and Emily standing there all confused, scorched and smoking.

Heh. In Dale's place, I would steal Sven's line: "Emily? Nah. Once you hit this, everything else looks flat," with "this" punctuated by a hug. It is often more convincing to present yourself as a bad guy who likes what he likes than as a good guy.

Heh, I would've punctuated "this" with a nice loud slap on her butt. The surprise and embarrassment might, I repeat might, be enough to shake her out of her jealous fugue. The idea is to transfer her anger from an imagined slight to a more "real" one, and then be totally unapologetic to keep her anger focused there until it faded. I don't think Dale has the social chops to pull that off though.

[ckridge]

No, me neither. You have to have spent time on both sides of this fight and made all the elementary errors a few times each.

[heyjames4]

I'm not familiar with coffee grinders.
Is on top of the coffee grinder while its running like on top of a washing machine?
Or is there more exposed industrial parts, for the thrill of danger?

[brasca]

Marigold's low self-esteem is really kicking in strongly at the moment, isn't it? Either she's feeling unusually jealous at the moment for some reason or there is something that's making her feel extra insecure about Dale's feelings for her. I mean, the way she turned Emily from 'tall and gangly' into 'curvy vixen' inside her paranoid fantasy-world probably tells us a lot about how distorted her perceptions are at the moment!

So, the obvious question up for debate is: Why? In truth, I think it was just something inevitable for someone with Marigold's very insecure personality. She's fully aware  that she's not perfect and is convinced that, because of this, no-one would want to spend too much time around her. Being abandoned is a deep and profound fear on her part.

Oh, by the way, I'm signing her up for fanfic-writing courses with Claire. The dialogue in that fantasy didn't even manage to achieve 'cheesy'.

Marigold still has the mentality of her high school self after all these years.  She thinks men don’t find her desirable because of imagined ugliness instead of excessive geekiness and a tendency to ignore hygiene.

[ckridge]

Also, she is hot without being hot in a high-status way, which is a condition likely to have gotten her abuse from just about every single quarter.

[Shjade]

Anyone remember the details of Tai going behind the back of one lover? Did that woman think it was monogamous?

That happened?

The only big relationship upset I recall with Tai was her asking a lover to go monogamous and the lover kinda blowing up at her for it.

[StevenC]

Latte means boner in German.

[zmeiat_joro]

Here in Bulgaria, I have only encountered that kind of snack in the coastal areas. As in dried and salted fish.

[brasca]

Also, she is hot without being hot in a high-status way, which is a condition likely to have gotten her abuse from just about every single quarter.

Indeed.  And plenty of people have told her as much, but she still thinks of herself as the girl who the popular girls put a frog down her shirt.

[SpanielBear]

Comic!

That thing you stepped on, Dale? The thing that went click?

Landmine. Good luck! *runs*

[Cornelius]

Not exactly the right answer. Especially not keeping in mind Marigold is insecure enough to have walked out on their date, because she thought he had done just that.

[Tova]

Dale's being a little oblivious here.

[TheEvilDog]

Oh no....All of Dale's savviness must have been located in his facial hair! He's lost all his powers now that he's clean shaven! HE'S DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

[Smallest]

These couple pages are just reminding me more and more of why I don't like Marigold.

(the main, biggest, reason is how she casually tried to manipulate Momo over her chassis, and the most minor, nothing reason is her use of the word wiener)

[zisraelsen]

I can only hope Dale will pick up on the boldface type of Marigold's "no reason" in that last panel so her jealousy can at least be addressed before it evolves into something dangerous, as jealousy does.

I also don't really understand the distaste for Marigold here. Maybe it's because I struggle with low self esteem in very similar ways to her, but I find her endearing.

[Gyrre]

Dale, no!!!!

The correct answer is "But not as pretty as you." followed by a forehead kisses.

[Tova]

She would not have believed that.

[MrNumbers]

The thing about obliviousness is its honesty.

He's not trying to take evasive action because he doesn't realize there's any need for it.

... though Emily and Dale would make an extremely cute couple, I have to admit.

[Timemaster]

Dale is oblivious, good hearted and honest. A typical male in his natural state.
"Yes, she's pretty. So what? That doesn't mean I'm into her."

I'm single for almost ten years now. And I'm happy that way. Stories like this remind me why I'm very content with my personal situation: because I don't have to put every fucking word I say on jewelers scales before mentioning it to my girlfriend!

Timemaster

[BenRG]

So, I find myself really wondering what's Marigold's angle here. We know she's insecure and we know that had difficulty believing in Dale's feelings for her. However, why now? What has so set her off that she's basically looking for signs that Dale is cheating with Emily of all people?

This whole arc so far has been all about how poor communication kills relationships. Marigold isn't telling Dale that she feels insecure. Does she think it's silly? Or, is this one of those wonderful recursive paranoiac reasoning patterns where she feels he ought to know what she's talking about because he is so obviously cheating on her and she's referring to that in an indirect way? Marigold has tied herself into a knot and Dale, being Dale, can't read her mind and see what she's talking about because it is literally not something that he's considered!

[anahata]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether this is pathological jealousy in Marigold or something really going on with Dale and Emily.

Pathological jealousy can be a nasty pervasive condition that's hard to treat or control, and isn't fixed by 'going away and growing up' if it's real and chronic. Marigold has the kind of insecurity that makes her a candidate for that, and Dale's going to have a hard time if he's going to be living with it (as I did for several years, until it was safe to escape)
On the other hand, the first scene with Dale and Emily in the COD looked like the sort of high-energy flirtation that could develop into a lot more, in which case Marigold's concerns are quite legitimate.

[traroth]

Wrong answer, Dale. The right answer was "Not as pretty as you, babe!"

[gopher]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether this is pathological jealousy in Marigold or something really going on with Dale and Emily.

Pathological jealousy can be a nasty pervasive condition that's hard to treat or control, and isn't fixed by 'going away and growing up' if it's real and chronic. Marigold has the kind of insecurity that makes her a candidate for that, and Dale's going to have a hard time if he's going to be living with it (as I did for several years, until it was safe to escape)
On the other hand, the first scene with Dale and Emily in the COD looked like the sort of high-energy flirtation that could develop into a lot more, in which case Marigold's concerns are quite legitimate.

You say High-energy flirtation, I say typical Coffee of Doom banter.

[swapna]

I can only hope Dale will pick up on the boldface type of Marigold's "no reason" in that last panel so her jealousy can at least be addressed before it evolves into something dangerous, as jealousy does.

I also don't really understand the distaste for Marigold here. Maybe it's because I struggle with low self esteem in very similar ways to her, but I find her endearing.

As one of the people who aren't as endeared by Marigold: her low self-esteem is a very relatable character trait, but the way she chooses to make other people suffer for it is annoying. Dale has no idea what's going on, and he's at the same level of social awkwardness as Marigold so she knows he needs things clearly spelled out just as she does.
So, armed with that knowledge,what does she do? She runs him through an interrogation about Emily while giving him no clue about the context. Charming. 

[MrNumbers]

I think more important than that, and carrying on from what I was saying about incautious writing -

This would be way more palatable if this wasn't Marigold's introduction back into the strip. Like, one week of showing us why Marigold is likable and interesting before diving into this plot would make this way more interesting to me.

As it is, it's just presumed she's a likable character, so that kind of groundwork -- the "Save the cat moment" as Blake Snyder, a terrible writer but a fantastic giver of writing advice, would put it -- is skipped over. When that would really be making these last few strips more impactful.

[Shjade]

So, I find myself really wondering what's Marigold's angle here.

I'm confused about why you'd expect jealousy to have an angle.

She walked in on Dale having fun with an attractive, available, intelligent young woman whom he sees most days of the week and had a gut reaction to it, and she's the type who dwells on those gut reactions rather than let them pass.

"It's not that deep," as they say.

[Welu]

I've been in Marigold's situation here. I used to be very insecure and jealous and I would ask testing questions to see what would be said. I honestly didn't even realise I was doing it in hope of getting some kind of correct answer, which most of the time there wasn't one because either I got the "wrong" answer or didn't believe the "correct" one.

So my bias means I'm giving Marigold the benefit of the doubt that she's inexperienced and she doesn't totally realise what she's doing. On the other hand though I want to shake her and make her get past what used to be one of my big flaws.

[Case]

Dale's being a little oblivious here.

No! Waaaaay!!!

[traroth]

So, I find myself really wondering what's Marigold's angle here.

I'm confused about why you'd expect jealousy to have an angle.

She walked in on Dale having fun with an attractive, available, intelligent young woman whom he sees most days of the week and had a gut reaction to it, and she's the type who dwells on those gut reactions rather than let them pass.

"It's not that deep," as they say.

The "available" part is not so sure. Emily declined Clinton's offer for a date.

[Neko_Ali]

It doesn't really matter that Emily's too busy to date. All Marigold is seeing is someone Dale works with who he has fun with, is female and isn't seeing anyone. That's enough for jealousy and insecurity to take over. It also means it doesn't matter what answers Dale gave to the questions, Marigold is going to interpreter them in the way that make sense to her jealousy, or just assume Dale is lying. That's the thing about insecurity and jealousy... They don't obey logical rules.

[traroth]

I disagree. Not everybody goes this far in that matter. Some people actually believe denials.

[shanejayell]

"How could you tell you were in Canada?>"

"Everyone was so NICE!"

Well, it's not WRONG.... 

[yaksaregreat]

Jeph loves Marigold so much, he forgets to show how lovable she might be in the comics... if he had, I might forgive her, but she's seriously selfish, presumptuous, and jealous! She doesn't appreciate Hannelore, she doesn't give Dale the benefit of the doubt-- she's been one of my least favorites from the start.

[Case]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether this is pathological jealousy in Marigold or something really going on with Dale and Emily. Pathological jealousy can be a nasty pervasive condition that's hard to treat or control, and isn't fixed by 'going away and growing up' if it's real and chronic.
...

Pathological jealousy, also known as Morbid jealousy, Othello syndrome or delusional jealousy, is a psychological disorder in which a person is preoccupied with the thought that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful without having any real proof, along with socially unacceptable or abnormal behaviour related to these thoughts. The most common cited forms of psychopathology in morbid jealousy are delusions and obsessions. It is considered a subtype of delusional disorder.

Some symptoms of pathological jealousy include:[citation needed]
   

(click to show/hide)

Accusing partner of looking or giving attention to other people.
    Questioning of the partner's behavior.
    Interrogation of phone calls, including wrong numbers or accidental phone calls, and all other forms of communication.
    Not allowing any social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter etc.
    Going through the partner’s belongings.
    Always asking where the partner is and who they are with.
    Isolating partner from their family and friends.
    Not letting the partner have personal interests or hobbies outside the house.
    Controlling the partner's social circle.
    Claiming the partner is having an affair when they withdraw or tries to escape abuse.
    Accusing the partner of holding affairs when the marriage's sexual activity stops because of the abuse.
    Verbal and/or physical violence towards the partner, the individual who is considered to be the rival, or both.
    Blaming the partner and establishing an excuse for jealous behavior.
    Denying the jealous behavior unless cornered.
    Threatening to harm others or themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_jealousy

Hmmmmmh ... IDK, 'delusional' is not the first word I'd associate with Marbear.


No mental health expert, not a recommendation for people with actual mental health trouble!!! -> When you know something is wrong, GET! HELP!

X is functional and safe to those around her. X has deficits in her contact with reality. She is by her own assessment weird, but we must avoid pathologizing weirdness.

I think that when considering possible symptoms of mental disorders of fictional characters, it would be good to keep in mind the clinical significance criterion for what constitutes a mental disorder, first introduced in version IV of the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders":

"causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning".

"Significant distress or impairment", k?

Generally speaking: My (!) impression (!!) is that many people who have little personal experience with mental health problems tend to underestimate the scale of symptoms in an actual sufferer as compared to what an ordinary healthy person experiences in their daily lives. Again: "(Clinically) significant distress or impairment"

A lot of the most common mental health stuff isn't thinking you're the second coming of Christ, or that you can fly or whatnot (though ... there's people to whom that happens, too) - it's more about the way rather ordinary thoughts and emotions are processed. So when Joe Everyman browses through a list of clinical symptoms of most any disorder (except the really heavy psychiatric ones), he will find things that look superficially like stuff he experiences in his daily lives - the difference is in the scale and the degree of impairment to their lives.

Example OCD: Everybody experiences Obsession and Compulsion. Those are normal human experiences. The difference is in the "Disorder" - meaning the symptoms are on a scale that they seriously impair your personal and/or professional life.

• Going back once to check whether the door is locked & the oven turned off, muttering "This is silly, I know I locked the door"? -> Most everybody has experienced that once or twice in their lives.
  
  
• Leaving your friends waiting in the car for half an hour while you're racing through the house to check every door and window for the third time, with tears of shame and despair in your eyes? -> OCD.
  

Yes, the latter actually happened to someone diagnosed with OCD -> me. I was 16. It felt like "watching myself go insane, in full possession of all my mental faculties" (Note: OCD is ego-dystonous. Means it "feels wrong". Not all disorders are like that.). It was extremely scary.


Personal opinion: Guys, it's a very big step to seek help for mental health trouble. This "pathologizing rather innocuous behaviour of fictional characters" ... I don't think it's helping.

[TheEvilDog]

I disagree. Not everybody goes this far in that matter. Some people actually believe denials.

There's a ideal in law called "The Reasonable Person" focusing on how a typical person, with ordinary prudence, would act in certain circumstances.

Marigold in this instance is not a "reasonable person". She is someone who has extremely low self esteem, has had her expectations crushed before and from what we've gleamed in the past, suffered terribly from bullying. Bear in mind that Emily is the polar opposite of Marigold; tall, thin, someone who is extremely easy to get along with and funny. For someone like Marigold, with that kind of low self esteem, it can be crushing to see a partner getting along so well with someone like that. The fact that Marigold's mind went to an Oglaf-esque scenario indicates that its going to be very difficult for Dale to actually get through to his girlfriend and quash this sense of jealousy.