Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

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Poll

What are you expecting this week?

Shenanigans
- 27 (24.8%)
Drama
- 8 (7.3%)
Sexy times
- 8 (7.3%)
Personal conflict
- 7 (6.4%)
Friendship
- 19 (17.4%)
Personal development
- 16 (14.7%)
Anxiety
- 15 (13.8%)
Cereal
- 7 (6.4%)
I will describe below something that is so weirdly specific that I will look like a genius if something vaguely like it it happens
- 2 (1.8%)

Total Members Voted: 40


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)  (Read 10594 times)

jwhouk

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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #150 on: 15 Sep 2018, 10:11 »

What are you expecting this week?
(Thanks to Tova for the poll this week)

Shenanigans    25 (24.3%)
Friendship    17 (16.5%)
Personal development    16 (15.5%)
Anxiety    15 (14.6%)
Drama    8 (7.8%)
Sexy times    7 (6.8%)
Cereal    7 (6.8%)
Personal conflict    6 (5.8%)
I will describe below something that is so weirdly specific that I will look like a genius if something vaguely like it it happens    2 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 38
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cybersmurf

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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #151 on: 15 Sep 2018, 12:26 »

How old are the ai in terms of maturity?  Mentally may might be very young and not aware of the full range of consequences

As I recall, the AIs maturity is defined in terms other than their chronological age. When May was looking for a job, one of the application forms asked whether she could pass a Turing Test to a certain level; I suspect their maturity is defined this way as it measures how complex their intelligence algorithm has become.


Well, that sounds rather logical though. I guess you could "train" any AI by appropriate software patches and data transfers within a reasonable amount of time, but the AI personality has to be right. You probably wouldn't want an overly sarcastic AI in customer service, but out back alone in the warehouse wouldn't matter much.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #152 on: 15 Sep 2018, 13:18 »

Jeph said once years ago that AIs could install patches to change their personalities. I don't know whether that's still canon. It raises the question of why Robot Jail exists if AIs could download impulse control and honesty. Last time this came up Neo-Ali pointed out the ethics minefield of personality modification.

Thinking about May some more.
Quote from: May
that's all you are to them, an ex-con

I'm on board with her complaining about people negating everything else about her personality and friendships and endeavors. The natural and/or just consequences of her actions don't include having everything except for her offense erased from everyone's consciousness. She's a person who attempted a serious crime but that should not be all she is to the people she interacts with. Matchmaker, jerk, clerk, fangirl, she is all of these things and is not defined by the worst thing she ever did.
« Last Edit: 15 Sep 2018, 13:35 by Is it cold in here? »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #153 on: 15 Sep 2018, 21:41 »

Jeph said once years ago that AIs could install patches to change their personalities. I don't know whether that's still canon. It raises the question of why Robot Jail exists if AIs could download impulse control and honesty. Last time this came up Neo-Ali pointed out the ethics minefield of personality modification.

Thinking about May some more.
Altering someone's personality against their will is highly unethical. Brainwashing is largely considered a major violation of a person's agency.

The person would have to want to do it. How many criminals would volunteer to have thier personalities rewritten?

Then there's the risks involved. What happens when the software patch is bugged or is infected with malware?
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Tova

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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #154 on: 15 Sep 2018, 22:36 »

 “You've sinned, I suppose, but your punishment has been out of all proportion. They have turned you into something other than a human being. You have no power of choice any longer. You are committed to socially acceptable acts, a little machine capable only of good. And I see that clearly - that business about marginal conditionings. Music and the sexual act, literature and art, all must be a source now not of pleasure but of pain.”

― Anthony Burgess, A Clockwork Orange
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #155 on: 16 Sep 2018, 03:26 »

Jeph said once years ago that AIs could install patches to change their personalities. I don't know whether that's still canon. It raises the question of why Robot Jail exists if AIs could download impulse control and honesty. Last time this came up Neo-Ali pointed out the ethics minefield of personality modification.

Thinking about May some more.

I suppose the Eminence Grise would come down like a ton of distributed super-intelligences on any attempt to tamper with sentient beings' personalities.

They seriously disliked even messing with one AI's memories.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #156 on: 16 Sep 2018, 07:08 »

When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #157 on: 16 Sep 2018, 07:28 »

When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?

I think it means that he appreciates May restraining her notoriously foul mouth for his (& Marigold's) benefit - something she doesn't do lightly, or often.

IMO, It's as close as a gesture of respect and appreciation as she's capable of right now. (True, she's having a somewhat easier time showing affection to Momo - though I guess a part of that is her imp of the perverse delighting in Momo's imp of fastidiousness' horror at that. Kind of like cats infallibly pick the lap of people who dislike cats to fall asleep on)

No verdict on their relationship, far as I can see.
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2018, 07:35 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #158 on: 16 Sep 2018, 07:40 »

When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?
How do you get “Dale and Marigold are breaking up” from Dale thanking a third party for not insulting her?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #159 on: 16 Sep 2018, 08:32 »

The person would have to want to do it. How many criminals would volunteer to have thier personalities rewritten?

It gets even more interesting. How could you trust that they were really volunteering? When the alternative is Robot Jail, it would inherently be a coerced choice.

Every now and then I drop in on real-life courtrooms. A few days ago I saw a judge mention that the defendant had an outstanding warrant. The judge said she would quash the warrant but only on condition that the defendant sign herself in for inpatient treatment. The paperwork will show "voluntary commitment" but it was not voluntary. That may have been a humane diversion of a mentally ill person from the prison system but I'm not at ease with it.

I'd volunteer to have my personality re-written. and it's already well suited for being law abiding. Fighting that goddamned shyness every social interaction every day is a burden I could do without. But that would be outside of the pressures of the legal system.

How is (freely!) downloading a patch different from practicing things from self-help books?

Next digression: since apparently nobody in the public knows what Robot Jail is like, apparently nobody has written a Robot Jail memoir. There could be a market. The first person to write one could make money. May could use money. I sure get that she doesn't want to talk about it and I wouldn't nag her about writing if I knew her in "real life".
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #160 on: 16 Sep 2018, 08:35 »

When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?

If he'd thanked her for saying it, that would have been a bad sign.

I read Dale's reaction as equivalent to "thank you for not being nasty about Marigold".
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"Non-compliance is a social skill"
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #161 on: 16 Sep 2018, 09:47 »

How do you get “Dale and Marigold are breaking up” from Dale thanking a third party for not insulting her?
I guess I read too much into the fact that 'girl friend' were the words she swallowed, as it would be painful otherwise if it wasn't the case anymore. As calling people stupid would be just May.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #162 on: 16 Sep 2018, 10:19 »

A condition of her staying there was being nice to Marigold, hence "nice.txt".
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #163 on: 16 Sep 2018, 14:25 »

I'm fascinated by the phrase "rest of my life". Isn't that going to be indefinite? And what will happen to AI society? If Ais brains don't grow old and deteriorate then AIs will be essentially immortal, and AI society will come to be a gerontocracy. And what happens as they realise that , as I am realising, Swift was right, indefinitely prolonged life would be a curse, not a blessing...
« Last Edit: 17 Sep 2018, 02:23 by JimC »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #164 on: 16 Sep 2018, 18:41 »

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Objects for a treatment of this very question.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #165 on: 16 Sep 2018, 23:50 »

driver architecture compatibility with newer bodies I guess? The question is how much is the AI consciousness integrated into the Operating System, and how much is it an application, or even just "configuration" being ready from a database.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #166 on: 17 Sep 2018, 02:25 »

driver architecture compatibility with newer bodies I guess?
It seems to me that lack of backwards compatability would be an AI rights issue.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
« Reply #167 on: 17 Sep 2018, 17:47 »

Agreed, and I will bet it's currently an unsolved one.
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