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[jwhouk]

Time for another week of comics!

[shanejayell]

Its nice to see more Coffee of Doom bits.

It's funny that the strip used to be JUST Marten's apartment & Coffee of Doom set, and now it's all over the place.

[BenRG]

Time for another week of comics!

Well, maybe and maybe not. Right now, Jeph seems to be marooned in Internal Flight Hell.

[oeoek]

Time for another week of comics!

Well, maybe and maybe not. Right now, Jeph seems to be marooned in Internal Flight Hell.

Ah, oui!

[BenRG]

Well, Jeph has finally arrived in France after what I understood from his Twitter feed was a very, very delayed flight. So...

New comic up!

Jeph, if you ever wondered why I preferred Bubbles with long hair, today's strip is the reason. I think she would have looked beautiful with her long hair blowing out in the breeze... Sigh!

Onto the point of the strip: It took me a while to realise what was going on. Roko and Bubbles are somehow sharing a tea hallucination. This isn't something that I would expect to be possible even if they had the same blend of tea. This is something new: I believe that Bubbles and Roko networked together so they could both be in the same dreamspace and continue their conversation without the tea affect impacting on their comprehension of what they were both saying. This is a fascinating new capability that Jeph has revealed and I'm hoping that we see it explored in other contexts!

Now... Is Roko the first fellow synthetic outside of her immediate circle... or possibly the first fellow synthetic at all whom she's told that she's in a relationship with a human woman? Cute blush from Bubbles in those panels too!

Oh, and Bubbles? You are squishy; it's just taken some time for you to let anyone else see that!

[Tyr]

Given the imagery, I'm guessing that Roko is networked into Bubbles' sensory suite, rather than it being an amalgam of both of their sensory inputs.

Just throwing that out into the conversation.

[traroth]

I get this dialog is happening in unicorn grove, but one thing is bothering me: why does Roko have different clothes than in real world, and not Bubbles?

[BenRG]

It's a windy day in Unicorn Valley, so Roko's mind has added her coat to her ensemble. The subconscious isn't bound by what you're actually wearing whilst creating your dreamscape self-image.

[artag]

Well. Another comic, another assumption challenged.

Bubbles chose to become a soldier. I kind of assumed she was built for it.

So maybe the AIs are built / grown / whatever as minds, and then fitted to a suitable chassis to suit their intentions. I guess that fits with the general idea that swapping chassis is a fairly common thing. That makes them much more like a sentient being than a robot (which, I guess, they are), even though there seem to be differences in intellect between them : pint-size, melon, winthrop in one class, roko, bubbles, corpse-witch more advanced.

We don't know much about the AI's brain technology (or maybe multiple technologies). We do know they can be transferred, and it appears this is via data connection rather than a physical transplant but there might be issues of memory capacity or processing power.

[DSL]

A guess as to why Roko's dressed more casually/athletically in the tea fantasy land:

Roko's just come off a job interview and is wearing a buttondown. Some people are comfortable in those things and others view them as stiff and "formal," about half a step down from a straitjacket (or so I've heard  ...) In addition, much of her life has been in uniform. 
(Contrast this with the observation made by another forumite that the humaniform AIs in the strip tend to go for the "athleisure" look -- activewear such as warmup jackets and hoodies, track pants or leggings/tights. It's ease, comfort, about as non-formal as you can get.)
Roko's outward persona is "formal." She would, or at the moment thinks she would, like to be otherwise. So she's wearing the outdoor/athleisure look in tea fantasy land, as opposed to her buttondown and khakis in QCRL. Bubbles, who's already mostly comfortable (or much moreso than before) with who she is and what she presents, is already there.

[traroth]

Well. Another comic, another assumption challenged.

Bubbles chose to become a soldier. I kind of assumed she was built for it.

So maybe the AIs are built / grown / whatever as minds, and then fitted to a suitable chassis to suit their intentions. I guess that fits with the general idea that swapping chassis is a fairly common thing. That makes them much more like a sentient being than a robot (which, I guess, they are), even though there seem to be differences in intellect between them : pint-size, melon, winthrop in one class, roko, bubbles, corpse-witch more advanced.

We don't know much about the AI's brain technology (or maybe multiple technologies). We do know they can be transferred, and it appears this is via data connection rather than a physical transplant but there might be issues of memory capacity or processing power.

What intention could have a new born / built / grown IA?

[DSL]

If an AI gets a new body by consciousness transfer (upload) rather than by physical brain-swap, is the AI in the new body the same as the AI in the old body? Or does the AI continue to exist in the old body (until it's wiped) while the AI in the new body thinks it's the original?

Has this topic been visited in re: QC in this forum? Either way, it's a trope of the more thoughtful science fiction, ranging from the 1950s stories about the man who kills his clone/robot copy because the copy thinks he's the original (but the story leaves in doubt which one's dead at the end) to the Star Trek fans who wonder the same thing about the Starfleet People Fax (aka the Transporter).

[BenRG]

Both Winslow and Momo's transfer show that no remnant of the AI mind remains in a vacated chassis. In both cases, other AIs could not even find remnants of their system code in the drive.

This is at variance with how RL computer systems work. My guess is (warning technobabble ahead) that the AI drives use some form of storage and data transfer medium other than digital optical or magnetic storage. Possibly some kind of quantum data state where the data cannot be copied, only transferred as a single, integrated entity.

[pwhodges]

Both Winslow and Momo's transfer show that no remnant of the AI mind remains in a vacated chassis. In both cases, other AIs could not even find remnants of their system code in the drive.

This is at variance with how RL computer systems work. My guess is (warning technobabble ahead) that the AI drives use some form of storage and data transfer medium other than digital optical or magnetic storage. Possibly some kind of quantum data state where the data cannot be copied, only transferred as a single, integrated entity.

This is exactly how digital minds are handled in the obscure 2006 anime Zegapain, which includes as a plot point the possibility of irreparable memory and personality damage if a glitch happens during the transfer.  Quantum computers is their way of doing this, too.

[Pablo360]

Both Winslow and Momo's transfer show that no remnant of the AI mind remains in a vacated chassis. In both cases, other AIs could not even find remnants of their system code in the drive.

This is at variance with how RL computer systems work. My guess is (warning technobabble ahead) that the AI drives use some form of storage and data transfer medium other than digital optical or magnetic storage. Possibly some kind of quantum data state where the data cannot be copied, only transferred as a single, integrated entity.

This is exactly how digital minds are handled in the obscure 2006 anime Zegapain, which includes as a plot point the possibility of irreparable memory and personality damage if a glitch happens during the transfer.  Quantum computers is their way of doing this, too.

That's what I was thinking, too — after all, if robots have sufficiently-complex brains, the no cloning theorem of quantum mechanics means that copying them while leaving the original intact is impossible.

[shanejayell]

That was sweet.

[OldGoat]

I don't have time to look for the individual strips, but there have been at least a couple references to a core memory module that can be extracted, moved to another chassis, or even destroyed.  I think Corpse Witch took one out of a client (with permission, no less) to show Fay.

So, when Momo and Winslow transferred, the core module switch presumably happened off-camera and moved core personalities, tendencies, interests, etc.  The cable transfer handled acquired memories, training, skills, and so on.

[Is it cold in here?]

Well. Another comic, another assumption challenged.

Bubbles chose to become a soldier. I kind of assumed she was built for it.

One of the archive masters could supply a link to the strip where Momo asked Bubbles why anyone would want to be a soldier.

Jeph has said (long ago and I forget where) that new AIs have "absolute free will" and can just go for a chassis and career of their own choosing. He said it's a mystery why so many want to sign up as companions to humans.

[hedgie]

Humans are interesting, especially to beings with an alien intelligence. 

[zisraelsen]

Emotional squishiness is a compliment, Bubbs.
Plus, no one could pretend to call you squishy physically. You have literal bulletproof abs.

[War Sparrow]

"I am too tough!"

My husband tries that one too. I have doubts.

Appropos of nothing, what's it mean when a username has a line though it? Is it a perma-ban, or a "this person has left the forum" note in general? I always wondered, but couldn't find a good place to ask it.

[pwhodges]

A struck-through name is a banned user whose account still exists; what you referred to as "perma-ban".  We have a different system for short punishment bans of a few days which shows a coloured triangle under their profile next to their posts.  It is also possible to delete a user account and retain the posts, which then show the account's original name (even it got changed later) but no profile and not as a link; in the past this has been requested by a leaving user.

[War Sparrow]

Oh, okay. Logical, thank you.

[alc40]

I have a little time so I went digging around about AI memories & transfers.  The ones I found are from various time frames, and the earlier comics may well be inconsistent with later ones:

59: Pintsize on Marten's desktop
268: implication that backups could be kept, although Marten deleted it
2000: Momo gets a new chassis
3008: Corpse Witch removing an AI drive
3044: Marten has memory backups of Pintsize
3376: Bubbles talking about AI minds

[specter177]

I have a little time so I went digging around about AI memories & transfers.  The ones I found are from various time frames, and the earlier comics may well be inconsistent with later ones:

59: Pintsize on Marten's desktop
268: implication that backups could be kept, although Marten deleted it
2000: Momo gets a new chassis
3008: Corpse Witch removing an AI drive
3044: Marten has memory backups of Pintsize
3376: Bubbles talking about AI minds

The back-up might be memories only, not a full personality, so you couldn't just transfer that into another chassis and have a copy running around without the "base" program also.

[Pogopotamus]

So ...assuming AIs get to "choose" a body and Bubbles appears to be a MILspec super duty fighting/military chassis that (assumedly) she got when she became a solider do we further assume they get to keep whatever hardware they had from the last job they performed?  You'd think the military might want that specialized hardware chassis back for re-use or just might not want it wandering around the civilian landscape.  They did take back Pintsize's death ray.

[OldGoat]

I have a little time so I went digging around about AI memories & transfers.  The ones I found are from various time frames, and the earlier comics may well be inconsistent with later ones:

59: Pintsize on Marten's desktop
268: implication that backups could be kept, although Marten deleted it
2000: Momo gets a new chassis
3008: Corpse Witch removing an AI drive
3044: Marten has memory backups of Pintsize
3376: Bubbles talking about AI minds

And #3406 in which Bubbles sayeth unto Corpse Witch, "I could rip you apart, tear out your mind substrate, and crush it to dust in my hands."  I presume "mind substrate" means the crystal lantern looking thingie she removed from Higgs's robonoggin in #3008.

[Case]

So ...assuming AIs get to "choose" a body and Bubbles appears to be a MILspec super duty fighting/military chassis that (assumedly) she got when she became a solider do we further assume they get to keep whatever hardware they had from the last job they performed?  You'd think the military might want that specialized hardware chassis back for re-use or just might not want it wandering around the civilian landscape.  They did take back Pintsize's death ray.

Hmmmmh - Yes, they took Pintsize's laser (which, I hasten to add, he was prone to firing at anything that took his fancy, apropos nothing at all) but not his body. Presumably, the QC-verse AIs have 'an opinion' about taking away an intelligence's body they've accustomed to - probably less extreme than humans would rate the equivalent treatment applied to one of their own, but I doubt it would qualify for 'charitably', 'enthusiastic' or 'kindly'. Their chassis' relevance to an AIs sense of identity and personhood is probably different from the equivalent relation we have with our bodies, but IMO, we've seen some indications that it's by no means 'not a big deal'.

Second, unlike Pintsize, Bubbles has given no indication of being anything but scrupulously restrained in the application of her chassis' capabilities (admittedly, ill-positioned walls and bothersome doors seem to rank somewhat lower on her list of 'things that warrant restraint due to ethical concerns'.)

Thirdly, QC-verse is positively teeming with AIs mingling with humans while inhabiting chassis' capable of effortlessly denting steel, or literally dis-arming each other, without any of the meatbags present showing the slightest signs of fear or distress (*) (**)

Furthermore, we don't know that the military hasn't already deactivated and/or removed some of her systems - what we know is that she is walking a very large and very strong chassis around ... manymany other very large and strong AI-chassis. Could be that her most militarily relevant hardware has little to do with her chassis' structural capabilities.

And, last, but maybe not least: The only way known to us so far of incapacitating someone inhabiting the type of chassis Bubbles is wearing is a battlefield EMP specifically tailored to overcoming her military-grade chassis' defences against EMPs. It's probably safe to assume that anything that can knock Bubbles out will likely also do seriously unpleasant things to the artificial brains of any AI in the vicinity, not to mention any critical urban infrastructure that fails to evacuate to a safe distance in a timely fashion.

So maybe, there was a staff-meeting somewhere that abruptly ended in a deafening silence after someone asked the innocuous question "What if she says 'No'?"


(*) Note the italics - I didn't forget that humanity has a wee bit of a way to go yet before AI can consider themselves universally accepted. The casual non-reaction most Northampton residents display vis a vis 'artificial people who could dis-arm me!' walking around seems to indicate that QC-verse humanity is not at the very beginning of said learning process).

(**) No, Marten doesn't count, on account of ... of ... Being! Marten!.

[JoeCovenant]

Anyone else have problems getting onto the page/forum today?

(No new comic..    )

[BenRG]

Yeah, Jeph's webhost was down for about 5-6 hours this morning for hardware maintenance and so both the comic and the forums were inaccessible. They're up again now (as you can doubtless see). However, Jeph has said that he won't be able to upload today's strip for a while. In the meantime, he says he's made yesterday's Patreon post accessible to guests as well as members so today's strip should now be visible there until he is able to do the upload.

[oeoek]

Thank you Jeph and BenRG for saving my daily shot of QC !

As for Bubbles failure to see how shit would improve the situation: EVERYTHING feel better after a good bowel movement...

[BenRG]

If I was asked to say what I thought today's strip was about it's this: It's about Roko's relationship with SpookyBot (isn't this the first time that they've been named in canon?). You see, I'm thinking that Roko is genuinely scared of SpookyBot and the way she hides behind Bubbles in panel 5 proves it, in my view.

I suppose I can get that. I mean, how happy would you or I be if the local equivalent of Loki or Q decided that we were interesting or funny enough to spend time playing with our lives? I know that I wouldn't like it at all! I really think that a mortal's life isn't intended to sustain the interest or attention of whatever your universe's trickster god turns out to be without considerable damage. Perhaps this is also another indicator that Roko is the 'everyman' for this phase of Questionable Content - our surrogate through whose eyes we see and understand this fictional universe because her perspective is not different from ours.

I do think that Bubbles believes that she has a handle on SpookyBot and maybe that sense of understanding makes them less an unknowable mystery. To Bubbles, SpookyBot is just a very, very powerful and intellectually different AI but, in their ultimate essence, not that different from her. Would that make her the AI equivalent of a Humanist?

No, I'm not expecting SpookyBot to jump out at any point. Be they Q, Loki, Coyote or whatever, they're never there when you expect them to be! That's all part of the mystique of the role!

[traroth]

No QC today? Is JJ alright?

[hakko504]

I don't have time to look for the individual strips, but there have been at least a couple references to a core memory module that can be extracted, moved to another chassis, or even destroyed.  I think Corpse Witch took one out of a client (with permission, no less) to show Fay.

3008, when Fay applied for a job with Corpse Witch.

No QC today? Is JJ alright?

Presumable the site problems during the morning prevented Jeph from posting at his regular time. A strip for today has been posted on Patreon.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/pink-floyd-23239342

[traroth]

Ok... Thank you hakko504!

 Roko will shit bricks, of course. Just another bri...

[Welu]

[Zahariel]

So ...assuming AIs get to "choose" a body and Bubbles appears to be a MILspec super duty fighting/military chassis that (assumedly) she got when she became a solider do we further assume they get to keep whatever hardware they had from the last job they performed?  You'd think the military might want that specialized hardware chassis back for re-use or just might not want it wandering around the civilian landscape.  They did take back Pintsize's death ray.

I don't have time to hunt through the archives right now, but I think Bubbles implied at some point that the military let her keep the assault chassis in return for her continued silence about any mismanagement of the program and in lieu of any actual therapy for her PTSD. Which is a pretty cruddy consolation prize if you ask me. I don't get the feeling that the military would be in the habit of letting retired AI soldiers keep all kinds of milspec gear. Although there was the one clerkbot Marigold and Momo met at the chassis store that claimed she still had the launch codes for the nuclear submarine she used to be.... not sure if she's a credible witness though.

[sitnspin]

It was also implied that she wasn't "allowed" to keep the codes, it was an oversight. Thankfully, they change them fairly often so I doubt the ones she kept are still valid.

[lemonglamour]

I KNEW BEEPATRICE WAS NONBINARY, YEAH BOI

[brasca]

Maybe Spookybot will answer your question if you say their name 3 times.

[Scarlet Manuka]

Roko and Bubbles are somehow sharing a tea hallucination. This isn't something that I would expect to be possible even if they had the same blend of tea. This is something new

Actually, we've seen it before a few times, like here.

[Nepiophage]

Hooray, Pink Floyd! When are going to See Emily Play?

[Near Lurker]

I KNEW BEEPATRICE WAS NONBINARY, YEAH BOI

Maybe, but I'd kind of assumed they were just using "they" because they were talking so abstractly.

[A small perverse otter]

So ...assuming AIs get to "choose" a body and Bubbles appears to be a MILspec super duty fighting/military chassis that (assumedly) she got when she became a solider do we further assume they get to keep whatever hardware they had from the last job they performed?  You'd think the military might want that specialized hardware chassis back for re-use or just might not want it wandering around the civilian landscape.  They did take back Pintsize's death ray.

Hmmmmh - Yes, they took Pintsize's laser (which, I hasten to add, he was prone to firing at anything that took his fancy, apropos nothing at all) but not his body. Presumably, the QC-verse AIs have 'an opinion' about taking away an intelligence's body they've accustomed to - probably less extreme than humans would rate the equivalent treatment applied to one of their own, but I doubt it would qualify for 'charitably', 'enthusiastic' or 'kindly'.

This makes me think about robot jail. It seems like May had no physical presence anywhere while she was in robot jail; she was only visible outside through Dale's Magic Glasses (TM). Even now, she does not like the chassis she has, but she doesn't have the money to replace it with one that, you know, doesn't fall apart for no apparent reason.

[BenRG]

New Comic Up!

Elliott is simply the sweetest guy, isn't he? He literally is so desperate to be nice and helpful to people that he even lets himself come out worse in the deal! Consider that he barely knows Roko except as a customer and a neighbour whom he occasionally may exchange a head-nod with in the corridors! No wonder Jim feels the need to protect him from himself!

That said, Elliott really needs to be careful. People are going to assume that he's got a crush on a certain synthetic femme rather than him just being a nice and somewhat shy guy responding to the needs of a strong personality!

[ascdren]

Onto the point of the strip: It took me a while to realise what was going on. Roko and Bubbles are somehow sharing a tea hallucination. This isn't something that I would expect to be possible even if they had the same blend of tea. This is something new: I believe that Bubbles and Roko networked together so they could both be in the same dreamspace and continue their conversation without the tea affect impacting on their comprehension of what they were both saying. This is a fascinating new capability that Jeph has revealed and I'm hoping that we see it explored in other contexts!

we already saw melon crash into Bubbles' tea realm in the past when she was drinking her concoction so I think sharing it has already been established (in 3792)

[dutchrvl]

I know it's not exactly the same, but close enough that I'm just going to call yesterday's comic (#3892) a crossover-callback to Alice Grove p62

[shanejayell]

Elliot you really are TOO nice.

Did anyone else have the site be down for them yesterday?

[BenRG]

Did anyone else have the site be down for them yesterday?

Everyone did. Jeph's hosting company were doing hardware maintenance and the whole domain was down for several chunks of several hours long. Then, if I'm correct, it turned out the upgraded servers were incompatible with SMF leading to long downtimes for the forum and Jeph was having problems convincing the main site to upload images.

[Thrillho]

Hooray, Pink Floyd! When are going to See Emily Play?

And we have a post that beats Hawkwind!

Today's comic is truly lovely. I identify with Elliot quite a lot.