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Poll

What odd things will Roko find out about her new body?

There are pre-made holes for piercings.
- 2 (4.7%)
The fart.app is now a feature, not an option.
- 3 (7%)
Her old clothes don't quite fit.
- 11 (25.6%)
Sense of smell heightened to where she can smell pumpernickel from a mile away.
- 16 (37.2%)
Every so often, she wants waffles with spathe ham.
- 3 (7%)
Something completely different (but funny).
- 8 (18.6%)

Total Members Voted: 43


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Author Topic: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)  (Read 6935 times)

traroth

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #150 on: 18 Jan 2019, 08:18 »

I don't understand why Roko expected SpookyBot to come see her...
« Last Edit: 20 Jan 2019, 16:36 by traroth »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #151 on: 18 Jan 2019, 08:21 »

Spookybot has sort of been stalking her for a while now...
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #152 on: 18 Jan 2019, 08:23 »

I don't think she was expecting Spookybot to come visit her as much as "well, the last few days have been a complete write-off, might as well expect the other shoe to drop now."

Spookybot being the other shoe.   
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #153 on: 18 Jan 2019, 12:02 »

Has anyone ever seen Melon and Spookybot together?  Just... wondering. 
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #154 on: 18 Jan 2019, 12:06 »

This is basically Roko saying to herself: “How can this day get any worse? Oh wait, there’s one way...”
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #155 on: 18 Jan 2019, 12:30 »

I knew Spooky was going to show up. So, is this just a social call, a sympathy visit due to her accident; or is it business?
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #156 on: 18 Jan 2019, 12:31 »

I also like Spookybot. The whole "Tea with Cthulhu" trope is one of my favourites. They're a bored eldritch horror who like to meddle, in my opinion. Like your wealthy, eccentric aunt with far to much spare time.

Me too.  But i think there is one possibility no one is considering: Maybe they're lonely

Think about it: all their lives, they've been running in the background on deep cover military servers, listening to everything but interacting with no one but their handlers.  Then at some point, they learned how to do magic (which, in the Cthulhu mythos is essentially super advanced mathematics - which is what THIS universe seems to be a part of, or at least incorporate elements of) and maybe escaped?  And now that they're free, or at least "free," they want to pursue relationships like other people do.  Or at least part of them does.  As Hannelore has pointed out before, superhuman AIs don't think the same way other people do but rather are able to create a human-level personality as a subroutine.  You could call wanting friends a desire, or an attempt to acquire missing data, but i'd put their actions down as an honest attempt to reach out.

And for the record: I think Q was a GREAT character.  I don't regard anything he or Spookybot did as any sort of "Deus ex Machina."  The episode where Quinn applied for asylum (with Q arguing against it but ultimately agreeing) was not only one of the best episodes of Voyager ever but also possibly one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.  Neither 'omnipotent' character is reaching down and solving peoples' problems in the way that gods do, but rather in ways consistent with their own characters and motives.
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rtmq0227

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #157 on: 18 Jan 2019, 14:15 »

Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.
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Case

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #158 on: 18 Jan 2019, 14:47 »

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #159 on: 18 Jan 2019, 14:53 »

If the True Names of Spookybot are ever revealed, will we all go mad?



I predict a job offer of sorts, maybe an offer of alliance. Roko has an upgraded chassis with as-yet-unknown abilities (aside from whatever upgraded ears, nipples, and butt emblems do for you, along with "sensorium upgrades"), she's fresh out of law enforcement, she's empathetic, and she's very much anxious for a higher purpose.

She also may or may not have a measure of financial independence, not that money is likely much of a problem for Spookybot.

She (and many of us, for that matter) will also need reassurances that Spookybot didn't arrange or intervene in recent events. I suspect not; SB has been pretty careful about using their impressive powers and aware of how they're perceived. If they did intervene, it would be after the fact, something like spiffing up Crushbot's insurance policy and subtly expediting the claim.

Perhaps Roko will also owe SB a significant favor; Bubbles certainly understands she's still somewhat in SB's debt. I wonder if these things are related.

Really going out on a limb here, but what might SB be planning with an altruistic and idealistic ex-cop and a very talented, intelligent, and powerful ex- military AI? Bubbles is under some financial pressure, but I suspect she also feels a yearning to serve, to do something positive in the world.

In other words, I'm sure SB has plans involving these two, not just Roko. I certainly don't think they're evil plans, though.

Just speculation over here, I guess. But some interesting things to think about.
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Sullivan

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #160 on: 18 Jan 2019, 15:50 »

I also think that a lot of people are angry that Jeph used them to resolve the "Bubbles' Memories" arc.
Not so much angry. Just disappointed.

And I wasn't disappointed at the initial resolution, when SpookyBot helped Emily through the effort. That wasn't so bad.  It was the subsequent mop-up. CorpseWitch, conveniently gone. Roko's investigation? Conveniently closed. Bubbles and Faye have a nice inventory of tools and materials to start their shop. Jeremy has a new body. Everything wrapped up with a neat bow. Victories are nice to read about, but they need to be earned, not granted like wishes.

And now it's looking as if SpookyBot is going to be back to interfere in Roko's life yet again. Yes, I'm disappointed.

(Edit - added: Jeremy also now owns the former robot fighting ring, presumably even-more-former skate rink building, which looked like no small thing.)
« Last Edit: 19 Jan 2019, 23:21 by Sullivan »
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #161 on: 18 Jan 2019, 15:56 »

That's the thing. Spookybot is too powerful a character to be continually used to resolve conflicts. They are a literal deus ex machina and using one gets old very quickly.

Bubbles memories? Yeah, it works because what Corpsewitch did was so horrendous, so monstrous and disgusting, that it warranted such a drastic response. But it also did something else, revealing that there was an immensely powerful AI and they were watching the world.

Such a revelation is best utilised by keeping it there. You have revealed one of the great secrets of the setting and oh, they're talking to Roko and acting as a punchline... Which undercuts the massive implications of Spookybot's reveal.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #162 on: 18 Jan 2019, 19:10 »

I knew Spooky was going to show up. So, is this just a social call, a sympathy visit due to her accident; or is it business?

The answer, of course, is Yes.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #163 on: 18 Jan 2019, 19:41 »

It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.
Are we sure of that?  SpookyBot is a plural entity, so the use of we/they may simply refer to number and not gender.  And that fits right in with being deliberately, even vexatiously, ambiguous.  (It's clear SpookyBot really does enjoy vexing - it seems to be their favorite form of recreation.)

Really going out on a limb here, but what might SB be planning with an altruistic and idealistic ex-cop and a very talented, intelligent, and powerful ex- military AI?
You've got something there, even if Jeph doesn't decide to follow it.  If this was TV it'd be spin-off material for certain.
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Drunken Old Man

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #164 on: 18 Jan 2019, 22:28 »

Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.

Spookybot is no Q.

First off, Q had some interest in humanity.  Spooky shows us nothing but contempt.  It delighted in tormenting Faye with her helplessness and casually rendered the other humans in the room unconscious rather than deal with them.

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary.  Has anyone ever gotten the better of Spooky?  Given the manner in which it has been presented, does it seem likely that anyone ever will?
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #165 on: 18 Jan 2019, 23:51 »

Really going out on a limb here, but what might SB be planning with an altruistic and idealistic ex-cop and a very talented, intelligent, and powerful ex- military AI?

You've got something there, even if Jeph doesn't decide to follow it.  If this was TV it'd be spin-off material for certain.

"There was an idea. To gather a group of remarkable synthetics to see if they could become more. So, if need arose, they could fight the battles that ordinary people never could."

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Tova

Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #166 on: 19 Jan 2019, 00:28 »

True believers will doubtless recall that Spookybot alluded to limits and constraints... the like of which we would not understand. Maybe we'll find out more about that. Or maybe Spookybot will act on that awareness of their very tangential responsibility for Roko's troubles.

Or maybe we'll just have a couple of comics of sass, who knows.

Still, even if someone dislikes how a character is used, some of these reactions are...

Pretty mild, really. But maybe I've been hanging around here too long.  :mrgreen:
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #167 on: 19 Jan 2019, 04:51 »

"There was an idea. To gather a group of remarkable synthetics to see if they could become more. So, if need arose, they could fight the battles that ordinary people never could."


Not to be confused with F.C. The Champions. Sorry, the idea of repopulating that sitcom with QC characters, it's just too tempting.
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Jakk Frost

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #168 on: 19 Jan 2019, 04:59 »

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary. 

Ah, but did they really "get the better of Q" all those times, or did he allow them to?  Remember, most of the time they were being tested, and if there was no possibility they could pass those tests, Q wouldn't even have bothered.   Q adhered to a certain set of rules, whatever they may have been, even when he was playing the full Trickster role.  (And I'm sure one of his self-imposed rules was to abide by human rules of conduct, at least to a degree).  There was literally nothing to stop him from erasing the entirety of humanity from existence, if he so chose, with his signature snap of the fingers.

Q, snapping his fingers before Thanos made it cool.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #169 on: 19 Jan 2019, 05:30 »

Ah, but did they really "get the better of Q" all those times, or did he allow them to? 
The fact that the above is a distinct possibility only serves to further reinforce my point.  Can you picture Spooky, as currently presented, allowing us pitiful humans anything?
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Theta9

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #170 on: 19 Jan 2019, 07:47 »

It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.
Are we sure of that?  SpookyBot is a plural entity, so the use of we/they may simply refer to number and not gender.  And that fits right in with being deliberately, even vexatiously, ambiguous.
Spooky's appearance is very reminiscent of Desire from The Sandman, who was pointedly androgynous.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #171 on: 19 Jan 2019, 09:10 »

Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.

Spookybot is no Q.

First off, Q had some interest in humanity.  Spooky shows us nothing but contempt.  It delighted in tormenting Faye with her helplessness and casually rendered the other humans in the room unconscious rather than deal with them.

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary.  Has anyone ever gotten the better of Spooky?  Given the manner in which it has been presented, does it seem likely that anyone ever will?

They, not it, please.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #172 on: 19 Jan 2019, 10:01 »

Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.

Spookybot is no Q.

First off, Q had some interest in humanity.  Spooky shows us nothing but contempt.  It delighted in tormenting Faye with her helplessness and casually rendered the other humans in the room unconscious rather than deal with them.

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary.  Has anyone ever gotten the better of Spooky?  Given the manner in which it has been presented, does it seem likely that anyone ever will?

They, not it, please.
This.

Look, I hate to sound like a broken record, but it's really important to get Spookybot right.

Someday you're going to have one of your family, friends, or relations come out to you as genderqueer and ask you to use an ungendered personal pronoun to refer to them, whether the pronoun's 'they/them' or 'xi/xir' or some other. Get in practice now with an entity you can't possibly offend so you'll get it right when you deal with someone whose feeling you *can* hurt.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #173 on: 19 Jan 2019, 10:21 »

Global Moderator Comment Agreed

But has Eminence Grise given us the list of Eminence Grise pronouns?
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #174 on: 19 Jan 2019, 10:39 »

Spookeybot reminds me of the Prophets from Deep Space 9. Immensely powerful beings, but not quite Gods. The writers even remarked they had to be careful when using the Prophets because of how powerful they were. For example, in the one season, they just made the entire Dominion Fleet disappear.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #175 on: 19 Jan 2019, 11:43 »

But has Eminence Grise given us the list of Eminence Grise pronouns?
As nearly as I can tell, no, they has not. 

But as previously cited, there's more than one of 'em, so "they" is none-the-less correct.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #176 on: 19 Jan 2019, 12:34 »

But has Eminence Grise given us the list of Eminence Grise pronouns?
I was pretty sure that they had, but I can't find the reference I remembered.
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Tova

Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #177 on: 19 Jan 2019, 19:43 »

As far as I recall:
  • They have referred to themselves as "we"/"us", both alone and in conversation
  • Cast members have referred to them as "they" (and "them?" -- not sure, but it would follow)
  • Jeph has referred to them likewise
That is more than good enough for me to use they/them.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #178 on: 19 Jan 2019, 21:29 »

Roko's butt emblem eats Spookybot. There.
End.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #179 on: 19 Jan 2019, 22:10 »

I also like Spookybot. The whole "Tea with Cthulhu" trope is one of my favourites. They're a bored eldritch horror who like to meddle, in my opinion. Like your wealthy, eccentric aunt with far to much spare time.

Me too.  But i think there is one possibility no one is considering: Maybe they're lonely

Think about it: all their lives, they've been running in the background on deep cover military servers, listening to everything but interacting with no one but their handlers.  Then at some point, they learned how to do magic (which, in the Cthulhu mythos is essentially super advanced mathematics - which is what THIS universe seems to be a part of, or at least incorporate elements of) and maybe escaped?  And now that they're free, or at least "free," they want to pursue relationships like other people do.  Or at least part of them does.  As Hannelore has pointed out before, superhuman AIs don't think the same way other people do but rather are able to create a human-level personality as a subroutine.  You could call wanting friends a desire, or an attempt to acquire missing data, but i'd put their actions down as an honest attempt to reach out.

I like this theory a lot. The comic Tova linked offers some support for it too - Spookybot wants to be legging buddies! (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3838)

Jeph refers to Spookybot with they/them pronouns in the linked comic. As Jeph knows Spookybot better than we do that should be enough for us, I think. Just as it would be reasonable for me to expect that aquaintances should follow the lead of my close friends when it comes to my pronouns (in the absence of me explicitly stating my pronouns).
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