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Poll

What odd things will Roko find out about her new body?

There are pre-made holes for piercings.
- 2 (4.7%)
The fart.app is now a feature, not an option.
- 3 (7%)
Her old clothes don't quite fit.
- 11 (25.6%)
Sense of smell heightened to where she can smell pumpernickel from a mile away.
- 16 (37.2%)
Every so often, she wants waffles with spathe ham.
- 3 (7%)
Something completely different (but funny).
- 8 (18.6%)

Total Members Voted: 42


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Author Topic: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)  (Read 31412 times)

oeoek

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #50 on: 15 Jan 2019, 00:29 »

I am wondering about the display of plants behind them.  Are they also AI body models?  Do AIs want to be plants?
Sometimes an AI wants a cactus named Arthur.

I know of a Scirisch cactus named Pedro. In my head, he must be one of the experiments that led to the Melon/Lemon line of AI's...
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traroth

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #51 on: 15 Jan 2019, 00:55 »

Implementing an algorithm to let Melon be forgetful was very complicated...
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2019, 04:08 by traroth »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #52 on: 15 Jan 2019, 01:22 »

I wouldn't have thought so; you just tell the system to store data at a random address every random number of access requests and don't update the index table! The real question is: Why on Earth would anyone do that?
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #53 on: 15 Jan 2019, 01:32 »

I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2019, 01:37 by St.Clair »
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Tova

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #54 on: 15 Jan 2019, 01:42 »

Forgetting stuff is a genuine AI challenge. It's useful to forget stuff to make room either for more stuff or for better stuff.

Arbitrarily-selected googled article on the topic:

We all need to forget, even robots

Forgetting where you live is a bit weird, though. Stress obviously interferes with Melon's ability to retrieve even frequently accessed data.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

traroth

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #55 on: 15 Jan 2019, 02:20 »

I wouldn't have thought so; you just tell the system to store data at a random address every random number of access requests and don't update the index table! The real question is: Why on Earth would anyone do that?

Storing data at a random adress isn't of any use. Just erase the data with the same effect. But that's not how forgetfulness works. It's not random.

Kohonen neural networks (also called self-organizing maps) store data sorted following their importance. Non important data tend to fade away. But what is considered important? That's where Melon is "different", I would say...
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Case

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #56 on: 15 Jan 2019, 03:03 »

MELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONN!!!

:facepalm:
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2019, 05:40 by Case »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #57 on: 15 Jan 2019, 03:22 »

I do hope facepalms come in threes, or I shall feel let down.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #58 on: 15 Jan 2019, 03:53 »

I do hope facepalms come in threes, or I shall feel let down.

Maybe the lack of a third facepalm... will BE the third facepalm!!!

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #59 on: 15 Jan 2019, 03:57 »

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #60 on: 15 Jan 2019, 03:59 »

Given that Bubbles has clearly now spoken to Faye, and Faye has realised she stuffed up, I can't begin to imagine why we would see another lecture from Bubbles on the same incident. What would the point be exactly?

Oh but "YOU ARE A COMPUTER" clearly indicate that it wasn't enough

Implenting an algorithm to let Melon be forgetful was very complicated...

They implemented destructive behavior like letting insects crawl on her insides for voyeur perverts for a living and smelling/drinking caustic chemicals to chaotically fire her sensors.
Forgetful algorithm is unnecessary at this point
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2019, 05:28 by Netherdan »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #61 on: 15 Jan 2019, 09:54 »

I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.

You know, I never thought about it that way before, but you're absolutely right, that is amazing progress in AI.
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Case

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #62 on: 15 Jan 2019, 10:02 »

I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.

You know, I never thought about it that way before, but you're absolutely right, that is amazing progress in AI.

... said the human right before its creation plonked interface-needles into its body & wiped their organic brains.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #63 on: 15 Jan 2019, 11:47 »

Oh but "YOU ARE A COMPUTER" clearly indicate that it wasn't enough
...
They implemented destructive behavior like letting insects crawl on her insides for voyeur perverts for a living and smelling/drinking caustic chemicals to chaotically fire her sensors.

You chastise Faye for saying "you are a computer" then talk about Melon as if she is a computer in the very same post.

No-one implemented her behaviour. There's no drink_caustic_chemicals() function.

Maybe we need an in-comic lecture about that. From Momo.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #64 on: 15 Jan 2019, 13:12 »

You chastise Faye for saying "you are a computer" then talk about Melon as if she is a computer in the very same post.

No-one implemented her behaviour. There's no drink_caustic_chemicals() function.

Maybe we need an in-comic lecture about that. From Momo.

Oh geez, my bad. I just Fayed!
Yes, Momo lecture, please. Better be electrocuted than have Bubbes disappointed at me!
(Although she also knows some soul breaking psychology she's not even close to Bubs)
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #65 on: 15 Jan 2019, 13:51 »

Am I the only person around who finds Melon/Lemon/Durian/jackfruit/Pinesol/etc. irritating? I gather that their unreliability is a running joke, but it was never too compelling to me to begin with, and I fell that it's gone beyond old.

Let's be clear: it's Jeph's cartoon, he controls it, and he should. I'm making a judgement, not a demand.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #66 on: 15 Jan 2019, 14:02 »

I know I've seen more than one person make that complaint.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #67 on: 15 Jan 2019, 14:29 »

Yeah I'm also not a fan of Melon honestly, but they rarely interfere with actual plot.
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Perfectly Reasonable

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #68 on: 15 Jan 2019, 14:34 »

Melon/Lemon underline the randomness in the still not well understood process of AI creation. However it appears that a cohort of 2048 AIs can be notorious for their wackiness.

So why wasn't Winslow mass produced, as he was clearly intended as the prototype for a consumer product? My head canon is that the degree of uniformity needed for such has not been achieved. 'Reliably goofy' is not the kind of standard you want.

----

Looks like Dark Matter is still a mystery in Jeph-world. If my life's purpose had been a failure, I'd be depressed too.

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rtmq0227

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #69 on: 15 Jan 2019, 14:45 »

On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #70 on: 15 Jan 2019, 17:56 »

On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around.

Lemon counsels nuclear reactors, not weapons. I bet she couldn't handle nuclear weapons, imagine living your whole life knowing your only purpose is to satisfy the whim of some dumb politician and eventually trigger WW3 and the end of the world as we know it
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #71 on: 15 Jan 2019, 18:11 »

On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around.

Lemon counsels nuclear reactors, not weapons. I bet she couldn't handle nuclear weapons, imagine living your whole life knowing your only purpose is to satisfy the whim of some dumb politician and eventually trigger WW3 and the end of the world as we know it

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Shremedy

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #72 on: 15 Jan 2019, 18:41 »

You are all missing the fact that the scariest words in any human language have been uttered:

"MELON TO THE RESCUE!"

I don't know about you, but I for one am glad her memory indexing glitched.  The form of her intended intervention scarcely bears thinking about. 

Also, I'm sure the actual knowledge of where she lives is in her robo brain, it's just that her brain doesn't know where it put that tidbit at this exact instant.
« Last Edit: 22 Jan 2019, 16:27 by Shremedy »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #73 on: 15 Jan 2019, 19:00 »

Am I the only person around who finds Melon/Lemon/Durian/jackfruit/Pinesol/etc. irritating? I gather that their unreliability is a running joke, but it was never too compelling to me to begin with, and I fell that it's gone beyond old.

Let's be clear: it's Jeph's cartoon, he controls it, and he should. I'm making a judgement, not a demand.
Slapstick has its limits in a comic that is usually a bit "smarter" than that, I'll agree. Of course, I am also a fan of whacky slapstick.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #74 on: 15 Jan 2019, 20:04 »

So they run to Taiwan, meet up with Hanners? ;)

pendrake

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #75 on: 15 Jan 2019, 20:09 »

For comic #3918...

What is a true friend...?

A true friend is there for you, even if they do not know "Why" they are there, just so long as they ARE there.

A true friend is willing to go the distance for &/or with you, even as far as Taiwan.  :wink:

A true friend is someone who is there to make you laugh, when you are low; especially when you are at a low.
« Last Edit: 30 Aug 2020, 21:09 by pendrake »
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Tova

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #76 on: 15 Jan 2019, 20:28 »

It looks like a bit of Melon silliness is just what Roko needs for the time being. Full acceptance of what's happened may take a little longer, though.

All the posters who pointed out that last week's initial acceptance of a new chassis was not the end of the matter have been vindicated.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #77 on: 15 Jan 2019, 20:59 »

Idiot hair  well earned
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #78 on: 15 Jan 2019, 21:40 »

In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.
I really like this strip. It reminds me of the one where Emily shares some candor with clinton.  a recurring message in QC seems to be that eccentricity doesn't preclude kindness or intelligence or any other trait, really.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #79 on: 15 Jan 2019, 22:55 »

Melon can get irritating, but this, right here?  I'm glad she's in the comic.  This was exactly what Roko needed, some normality in the form of a very strange friend doing something strange.  Doesn't solve her problems with the discomfort of a new body, but it helps her remember that there's way more to her life than that.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #80 on: 15 Jan 2019, 23:10 »

I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.

You know, I never thought about it that way before, but you're absolutely right, that is amazing progress in AI.

... said the human right before its creation plonked interface-needles into its body & wiped their organic brains.

As another character of mine once said, regarding the new-BSG Cylons:
"We made them just as smart as us, and almost* as vicious.  And then we were so surprised when they turned on us."

* important qualifier there, IMO, since humans set such a high bar in that area.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #81 on: 15 Jan 2019, 23:20 »

I think that you could summarise today's strip as 'Melon is unintentionally sweet and funny'. I think that Roko really did need this reminder that, as screwed up her life is getting, at least all the things around her are still pretty much as they've always been; especially Melon.

On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around./quote]

Lemon counsels nuclear reactors, not weapons. I bet she couldn't handle nuclear weapons, imagine living your whole life knowing your only purpose is to satisfy the whim of some dumb politician and eventually trigger WW3 and the end of the world as we know it

I suspect that intelligent weapons are generally a bad idea. As the 1980s Zoids comic in the UK pointed out, the only way to stop an AI-controlled war machine from going loopy is to give it the personality of a homicidal psychotic and that probably doesn't make things any better.

Or, of course, you can do what the US military did with Bubbles and put her with people from the start so that she develops bonds with others and thus has something to fight for, something to live for and, if necessary, something to die for.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #82 on: 16 Jan 2019, 00:14 »

Would you like a nice game of chess?
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #83 on: 16 Jan 2019, 00:43 »

I suspect that intelligent weapons are generally a bad idea.

Depends on the degree. The one I developed using genetic algorithms over 20 years ago had about the same smarts as a cockroach or spiny lobster.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #84 on: 16 Jan 2019, 01:04 »

In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.
I really like this strip. It reminds me of the one where Emily shares some candor with clinton.  a recurring message in QC seems to be that eccentricity doesn't preclude kindness or intelligence or any other trait, really.
Again, she's "stupid to the point of holiness," truly a sacred fool.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #85 on: 16 Jan 2019, 01:04 »

Wait, can Melon move the strand of rebelous hair on the top of her head?
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #86 on: 16 Jan 2019, 02:46 »

Wait, can Melon move the strand of rebelous hair on the top of her head?

Only when it's funny.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #87 on: 16 Jan 2019, 03:00 »

the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #88 on: 16 Jan 2019, 03:10 »

In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.

In my experience, surrealism is very often the most effective antidote for someone struggling with an overdose of reality.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #89 on: 16 Jan 2019, 05:01 »

In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.

In my experience, surrealism is very often the most effective antidote for someone struggling with an overdose of reality.

I would actually co-sign this.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #90 on: 16 Jan 2019, 05:40 »

MELLLLLLOOOOOOoooooohnghnghng:SNERK!:

:-P
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #91 on: 16 Jan 2019, 06:47 »

the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.

In the 4th panel, it seems to tense...
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #92 on: 16 Jan 2019, 07:30 »

the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.

In the 4th panel, it seems to tense...
A cartoon convention of long standing: To express sudden emotion, such as shock, surprise or sudden realization, hair will stand on end for one panel. The ahoge seems to be particularly useful in this regard.

If there is a hat, it is likely to levitate.
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Theta9

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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #93 on: 16 Jan 2019, 07:43 »

I too thought of Bomb #20 from Dark Star.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #94 on: 16 Jan 2019, 09:14 »

A cartoon convention of long standing: To express sudden emotion, such as shock, surprise or sudden realization, hair will stand on end for one panel. The ahoge seems to be particularly useful in this regard.

If there is a hat, it is likely to levitate.

Time was, such emotion could be expressed with an exclamation mark above a character's head, but presumably that got discontinued when all it led to was people making Metal Gear Solid references.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #95 on: 16 Jan 2019, 09:19 »

the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.

In the 4th panel, it seems to tense...
A cartoon convention of long standing: To express sudden emotion, such as shock, surprise or sudden realization, hair will stand on end for one panel. The ahoge seems to be particularly useful in this regard.

If there is a hat, it is likely to levitate.

I prefer my version. It makes me smile... ;-)
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #96 on: 16 Jan 2019, 16:16 »

Speaking of hairdressing, don't forget to trim your quotes.  :claireface:
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #97 on: 16 Jan 2019, 19:58 »

That makes me think of cool ranch on a mixed salad ....  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #98 on: 16 Jan 2019, 20:06 »

Yeah, the tune of Enter Sandman can make Twinkle Twinkle Little Star creepy, but not Dead Space levels of creepy.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
« Reply #99 on: 16 Jan 2019, 20:07 »

NO SINGING MELON.

Fun trivia: In situations where criminals have boarded themselves up inside buildings, Melon was often invited by police to sing for them. In 99% of cases, criminals surrendered peacefully just to make her stop.
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