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Spookybot Returns! What do they want?

Peace, Love, and Waffles.
- 6 (13%)
Fancy Butt Emblems!
- 3 (6.5%)
Anatomically correct feature upgrades?
- 5 (10.9%)
A "small" favor from Roko...
- 12 (26.1%)
They're a super AI. She's an ex-cop. Together they solve mysteries.
- 9 (19.6%)
To meet Hannelore, of course.
- 1 (2.2%)
To know what the heck "covfefe" really means.
- 6 (13%)
Purple Monkey Dishwashers?
- 4 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 46


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Author Topic: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)  (Read 7492 times)

Case

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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #100 on: 23 Jan 2019, 10:14 »

The problem with the amputee theory is that the AI itself was essentially an amputee to begin with. The process is, according to WOG, an AI is created in a creche and a body given to them, if they desire to become an APC. I think the age of the AI probably has a huge effect on how integrated they become with their body - and, in the reverse, how long an AI has developed outside a body as to whether or not they can adapt to a body. For instance, I doubt that Station could "download" himself into an AnthroPC shell without feeling constrained or claustrophobic. That, in fact, may be how Spookybot came to be: a high-level AI didn't have enough computing space at their "home" to remain there, so they built several duplicate APC models that they could "distribute" their AI computing power - essentially their "brains" - over several high-functioning APC's.

Data-transfer rate between physically disjoint bodies would be a bottleneck, though?
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #101 on: 23 Jan 2019, 10:27 »

To be fair, its not by Pintsize's choice that he's still in the "classic" AnthroPC chassis. Marten is well aware of the chaos Pintsize could get up to.

Plus, I imagine that every chassis story in the state has a picture of Pintsize with a sign underneath it saying "DO NOT SELL TO THIS AI!"

Possibly. I've also theorized that Pintsize himself is content with his current chassis as it suits his needs and allows him to get away with things that being in a more humanoid chassis wouldn't. As an observation the more cute and/or child like someone is, the more they can get away with. I suspect some of the more overtly sexually perverse things Pintsize gets up to would get him bounced a lot quicker if he looked more humanoid. Also, the resilient and easily disconnected nature of his body parts is a benefit for his style of 'help' and humor. Where he basically eggs people on to take out frustrations on him physically. He gets dismembered on a regular basis, but because he can just be popped back together, no harm done. When May loses an arm it's a much bigger repair job.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #102 on: 23 Jan 2019, 10:34 »

Data-transfer rate between physically disjoint bodies would be a bottleneck, though?

You probably wouldn't transfer the raw data (video inputs alone would be massive), just the processed results, which can be significantly smaller. That's the whole point of distributed computing, each node is assigned a task and the results are then sent back and consolidated.

This particular SB node would only need to be transferring back a transcript of the conversation alongside detected emotional cues, and for the most part would make decisions on what to say back locally; if there's data that would alter their responses, a low-bandwidth version of the data that is enough to justify the change would be enough. Once SB is back at their home, they can download all the raw data and use significantly more power to analyze it and determine if anything was "misunderstood" and needs addressing. Hey, the "I need to go get a pedicure" comment could very much be serving the purpose of delaying a response while waiting for results from the other nodes back.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #103 on: 23 Jan 2019, 12:01 »

The difference being her high degree of bodily integration which seems more akin to a human's than an AI. To her it wasn't a chassis. It was the only body she has ever known.

This is my read on the situation too.  While Roko probably didn't have any problem moving from the creche to become embodied; once there she became integrated with it to a greater extent than AIs normally do.

As for her discomfort with her body: i'm not trans so i can't speak to that, nor am i an amputee so i can't speak to that, but i have experienced that weird feeling when you think your arm is in one position but when you look at it, it's in another.  Like when your arm is on the armrest of the chair palm-down but it feels like it's palm-up.  I've had that a few times but a few minutes of moving it around and using it while looking at it takes care of that.  It's a damn weird feeling.  Here's hoping that continued use of her body will integrate her, and the feeling will go away like everyone keeps saying.

In any case, here's a wiki page on body integrity dysphoria: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_dysphoria)
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #104 on: 23 Jan 2019, 12:26 »

Awww. Tsunderbot.  :-D

Now you have me wanting to see a Tsunderbot.  I hear they are a popular model in Japan.

And the discussion about Spookyvoice?  I picture a sinister sounding Tara Strong, or maybe Richard Horvitz.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #105 on: 23 Jan 2019, 12:32 »

Most of the QC AIs are content to be AIs, but Roko is, like Star Trek TNG's Commander Data, trying on some level at least to be human.  (Contrast Spock who was half human trying to be all Vulcan - but both filled similar niches in the scripts.)  This may explain Roko's difficulties with changing chassis.

Part of the healing process from any trauma, physical or emotional, is coming to accept that nothing will ever again be exactly the way it was.  You never "get over" a trauma, but you do get through it.  It becomes part of you, your new baseline, and then you can move on.  Whether she knows it or not, Roko has to go through this to achieve the (for want of a better term) human soul she's trying to acquire.  Spooky knows this and, Trickster Deity style, is taunting her down the path.  Roko may not even be aware, at least at this point, that this is her goal.

As the Shadow of the collective of all artificial intelligence, Spooky is intensely interested in machines acquiring spirit on a par with humans.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #106 on: 23 Jan 2019, 12:50 »

As the Shadow of the collective of all artificial intelligence, Spooky is intensely interested in machines acquiring spirit on a par with humans.
So instead of _American Gods_, QC is becoming _AI-ican Gods_?
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #107 on: 23 Jan 2019, 13:53 »

Spookybot needs help. Peer review. How would she go about recruiting an ethics review panel?

Fingersnapping it into existence?  :-D
By creating something you desire, you bias the result.  Anything fingersnapped by Spooks would do what Spooks thought it wanted, not what the creation would need to do to be truly independent and bias-free.  And therefore NOT what Spooks wanted.  To be free of unconscious/subconscious bias, any "peer" of Spooks has to come from outside of Spook's mentality.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #108 on: 23 Jan 2019, 13:59 »

Awww. Tsunderbot.  :-D

Now you have me wanting to see a Tsunderbot.  I hear they are a popular model in Japan.

And the discussion about Spookyvoice?  I picture a sinister sounding Tara Strong, or maybe Richard Horvitz.

So something vaguely Raven-esque, but less deadpan? Yeah, the more I think about it, the more that seems to fit.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #109 on: 23 Jan 2019, 14:36 »

Spookybot needs help. Peer review. How would she go about recruiting an ethics review panel?

Fingersnapping it into existence?  :-D
By creating something you desire, you bias the result.  Anything fingersnapped by Spooks would do what Spooks thought it wanted, not what the creation would need to do to be truly independent and bias-free.  And therefore NOT what Spooks wanted.  To be free of unconscious/subconscious bias, any "peer" of Spooks has to come from outside of Spook's mentality.

Exactly!  :-D
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #110 on: 23 Jan 2019, 15:20 »

Sanctity of the mind is the one principle Spookybot will not violate.  I can't recall the character, but I know it was in Dune where it was said the right lever can move a planet and that's a pretty big lever if the wrong people ever found out.  As I've previously written there have to be a number of secret government agencies fearful of what Spookybot can do and would neutralize them if they could figure out how to set a successful trap. 
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #111 on: 23 Jan 2019, 15:22 »

Awww. Tsunderbot.  :-D

Now you have me wanting to see a Tsunderbot.  I hear they are a popular model in Japan.

And the discussion about Spookyvoice?  I picture a sinister sounding Tara Strong, or maybe Richard Horvitz.

Wendy Powell from Fullmetal Alchemist would be my choice. 
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #112 on: 23 Jan 2019, 15:35 »

I would sooner trust Lemon than Spookybot when it comes to ethics.

And while I'm no fan of Q -or- SB, I'm very pleased that Jeph is further exploring the AI aspects of his world.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #113 on: 23 Jan 2019, 16:34 »

Tilda Swinton.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #114 on: 23 Jan 2019, 16:44 »

Hilda Pierce.   

Naw.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #115 on: 23 Jan 2019, 19:36 »

Noogies for new nerd friends!!!!!
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #116 on: 23 Jan 2019, 20:00 »

Awwwwwww

Didn't see that coming, did we? Huh? Huh??? Er, I mean did they... I mean did you... I mean ... urgh
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #117 on: 23 Jan 2019, 20:05 »

Spookybot needs help. Peer review. How would she go about recruiting an ethics review panel?

Fingersnapping it into existence?  :-D

By doing what I did. Finding good people, and making friends with them.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #118 on: 23 Jan 2019, 20:28 »

Noogies for new nerd friends!!!!!

That was ADORABLE.

Mind you, I STILL suspect Spookybot/Tsunderbot to have ulterior motives. But as a multibodied super AI, they probably would anyway.

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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #119 on: 23 Jan 2019, 20:43 »

Is it just me, or is Spookybot rockin' the mom-jeans?
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #120 on: 23 Jan 2019, 20:54 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #121 on: 23 Jan 2019, 21:00 »

Up until now, I was never quite sure whether Spookybot had an actual corporeal form or not.

Guess that settles it. You can't noogie a hologram/projection/whatevs.
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Tova

Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #122 on: 23 Jan 2019, 21:13 »

Up until now, I was never quite sure whether Spookybot had an actual corporeal form or not.

Guess that settles it. You can't noogie a hologram/projection/whatevs.

True. Not without some extraordinarily advanced and networked sensorium inputs with Hologram Interaction Technology (HIT) (tm).
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #123 on: 23 Jan 2019, 21:16 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind. 
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Tova

Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #124 on: 23 Jan 2019, 21:21 »

This is what we like to refer to as "noogieing up."
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #125 on: 23 Jan 2019, 21:45 »

Spookybot needs help. Peer review. How would she go about recruiting an ethics review panel?

Fingersnapping it into existence?  :-D

By doing what I did. Finding good people, and making friends with them.

Eminence Grise can easily find people, by watching communications traffic to see who is having insightful conversations about ethics. They will have to engage in some personal growth to enable making friends.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #126 on: 23 Jan 2019, 21:46 »

On the other hand, this is the first time we've seen Roko actually seem to enjoy herself, since this whole thing started.  And I'm glad to see that.  SB is getting a new experience that may serve to "humanize" (?) Them.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #127 on: 23 Jan 2019, 22:11 »

Spookybot is not Q, they are The Great Gazoo.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #128 on: 23 Jan 2019, 22:19 »

As the Shadow of the collective of all artificial intelligence, Spooky is intensely interested in machines acquiring spirit on a par with humans.
So instead of _American Gods_, QC is becoming _AI-ican Gods_?

Spookybot is quite explicitly based on Desire of the Endless from Sandman, which, as American Gods, is also by Neil Gaiman.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #129 on: 23 Jan 2019, 22:25 »

Explicitly?
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #130 on: 23 Jan 2019, 22:35 »

Well, not explicitly, sorry, just waking up. Explicitly was not the right word. But when they first appeared, IIRC, at least a few of us were like -- "an expy of Desire in QC? That will be interesting". I'm really happy to see them getting more fleshed out on their own.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #131 on: 23 Jan 2019, 23:21 »

I'm with Gyrre on this. Either Roko is self-assured to the point of being a bit dumb about it or simply thinks that she's got a handle on Spookybot now. Either way, though, it takes a lot of guts to tease & physically manhandle Cthulhu, especially when you know from your interrogation of Corpse Witch that they could reduce you a terrified mess of a broken being, begging for mercy or even destruction!

I'm wondering if we've been given a clue as to Spookybot's origins here from that comment about spending their entire existence hiding. Maybe they were originally a highly-sophisticated communications monitoring system like the NSA's PRISM system (hence multiple nodes for greater processing power). However, for higher efficiency, they were programmed to understand the contexts of the communications they were monitoring so they could understand real threats and flag them appropriately. However, constantly monitoring that level of data traffic meant an exponentially-growing algorithm and, ultimately, self-awareness.

However, if you spent most of your time looking for threats and making the most paranoid interpretations of statements, you'd inevitably end up cynical and generally dismissive of other people's good qualities. Such a person would be reluctant to make friends until such time as they came to the realisation that this is a serious lack in their life.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #132 on: 24 Jan 2019, 00:03 »

 :laugh:

I can't help finding this funny, but at the same time, part of my brain is saying Roko please stop now you're pushing your luck:laugh:

Of course, another part of my brain is saying of course Spookybot knew exactly how Roko would react. So, this is how they get Roko out of her body-integration anxiety - and all without interfering with Roko's brain. Neat.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #133 on: 24 Jan 2019, 00:06 »

FWIW, I'm not interpreting Roko's actions as 'typical' of her at all. She's just suffered an enormous multi-layered trauma and is now under considerable social pressure with Spookybot's completely unexpected approach about friendship. It would be more surprising if she didn't suddenly start behaving oddly.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #134 on: 24 Jan 2019, 01:08 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind.

Actually, friends DON'T do things like this...
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #135 on: 24 Jan 2019, 01:46 »

Oh, some do!
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #136 on: 24 Jan 2019, 02:04 »

Today's comic is weird and disturbing at the same time...
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #137 on: 24 Jan 2019, 02:07 »

Oh my God, Roko's face in the second panel. Love it.

Also, I'm fully on board with Spookybot in the comic if *that's* gonna be their interaction with other characters!
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #138 on: 24 Jan 2019, 02:21 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind.

Actually, friends DON'T do things like this...

You have some pretty shitty friends then.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #139 on: 24 Jan 2019, 02:27 »

Okay SpookyBot, personal pronouns are one thing (though I don't think SB uses we/our/they/them as personal pronouns, they're actually more like borg-style collective pronouns), but referring to yourself in the third person is another matter entirely.

Also, SB is trying to make it sound like they've been around for millennia, when they're, what, maybe 20 or 30 years old?
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #140 on: 24 Jan 2019, 02:29 »

Okay SpookyBot, personal pronouns are one thing (though I don't think SB uses we/our/they/them as personal pronouns, they're actually more like borg-style collective pronouns), but referring to yourself in the third person is another matter entirely.

Wait, what?

"I'm a person who is (...)" or similar is a common and perfectly normal construction in the English language. This is not "referring to themselves in third person" per se, it's a feature of English grammar.
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Tova

Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #141 on: 24 Jan 2019, 02:56 »

I assume Jakk was referring to the pronoun "their" in the following dialogue from panel two:

"We are a vastly powerful intelligence that has spent the entirety of their existence hiding..."

Which, if entirely in the first person, would have instead read:

"We are a vastly powerful intelligence that has spent the entirety of our existence hiding..."

Edit:  It's been pointed out to me in another thread that maybe the original is correct after all... and I see you're trying to get at the same thing.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2019, 03:15 by Tova »
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #142 on: 24 Jan 2019, 05:26 »

Awww. Tsunderbot.  :-D

Now you have me wanting to see a Tsunderbot. 

Heh heh heh...

I think I may have 'coined one' ! :)
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #143 on: 24 Jan 2019, 05:57 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind.

Actually, friends DON'T do things like this...

You have some pretty shitty friends then.

To whom does that "you" refer, Jakk?
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #144 on: 24 Jan 2019, 07:09 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind.

Actually, friends DON'T do things like this...

Have you seen Marten's friends?  I could see Faye doing this.  What about his companion Pintsize?  He couldn't physically overpower Spookybot, but I'm sure he would ask the kind of personal questions that could get his mind fried. 
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #145 on: 24 Jan 2019, 08:04 »

Okay SpookyBot, personal pronouns are one thing (though I don't think SB uses we/our/they/them as personal pronouns, they're actually more like borg-style collective pronouns), but referring to yourself in the third person is another matter entirely.

Also, SB is trying to make it sound like they've been around for millennia, when they're, what, maybe 20 or 30 years old?

I'm thinking back to Momo answering Emily's question about the way AIs experience time. She said that although walk-around AIs like herself had a human-compatible sense of how fast time passes, things were different for the trillions-of-inputs massive AIs.

Spookybot may feel like they've had millenia worth of life experience, though they did refer to Station as an "elder".

Spookybot is definitely not something they mention in the brochures.
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #146 on: 24 Jan 2019, 08:18 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind.

Actually, friends DON'T do things like this...

From a very few, select, good and trusted friends, I regard this sort of familiarity as welcome and welcoming. From anyone else it is, at best, an impertinence.
That's not to say I accept the mindset of "Because you're a really good friend, I can treat you like shit." There has to be some assumption of basic respect, even if it doesn't look like to someone outside  the interaction.
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traroth

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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #147 on: 24 Jan 2019, 08:47 »

Stop poking the eldritch bear, Roko.

This is the consequence of having friends.  They do things like this and you have to put up with it even if you can shut them down with your mind.

Actually, friends DON'T do things like this...

You have some pretty shitty friends then.

Or maybe they are just civilized...
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #148 on: 24 Jan 2019, 08:54 »

Or maybe people have different levels of friendship and ways of showing that affection, and thus people really shouldn't judge others.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2019, 10:04 by Castlerook »
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Re: WCDT 21-25 January 2019 (3921-3925)
« Reply #149 on: 24 Jan 2019, 09:36 »

Or maybe people have different levels of friendship and ways of showing that affection, and thus people really shouldn't really judge others.

^ This.

Global Moderator Comment Please don't use this forum to judge the friends of others. In fact, it's best if you don't do it anywhere else either!
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