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What is the answer to the mind/body problem?

The physical world is just a product of the mind
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The mind is just a process running on CPUs in the physical world
- 7 (28%)
There's no real distinction among manifestations of vital energy
- 4 (16%)
They are equal and distinct
- 2 (8%)
Something beyond human understanding
- 8 (32%)
Vandalized vanadium vanguard
- 4 (16%)

Total Members Voted: 25


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)  (Read 4274 times)

Gyrre

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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #100 on: 13 Feb 2019, 23:34 »

Isn't that kind of difficulty with metaphor common among people on the autism spectrum? Any idea that Brun might be neurotypical seems to be getting remote.
Often, though it differs by situation and person. I can usually follow straight metaphors, especially when the dimensions are absurd (a dick shaped like a pencil) or the situation is like that. But with exaggerations, slang especially, or internet memes, or situations where speech isn't denotative but rather structured on mutual intrinsic understanding (think of situations where a couple dudes might do a complicated fist bump and clown around speaking incomplete sentences), I'm often lost. I didn't pay enough attention to the other students in my spec ed classes to really evaluate their responses, much less that I'd remember after 11 years.

*snip*
It definitely varies. While it's a common hallmark of autism, it's not a prerequisite. I have more trouble with people not being very specific when they talk. "That" "this" "those" "it"  can be pretty frustrating for me. Especially when the person talking isn't pointing at whatever or doesn't describe it beyond "there" when pointing.

I'd also like to add that the way Brun is discussed sometimes makes me a bit uncomfortable.

I am on the spectrum. Many of us do understand how life works. Many of us also don't get anywhere near enough credit for how sarcastic we're being because people expect us to be socially stunted, and we cannot read Brun's tone (I'm willing to bet Renee can't always either).

Also, at the risk of seeming contradictory - we only have our observations of Brun to lead us to believe she's not neurotypical anyway.
Would we technically be 'dead-pan snarkers' when we do that? Most people have trouble telling that I'm being sarcastic unless I'm gesticulating more than normal and over-emphasizing words.

BTW, from what we've observed of Brun, I'd say it's pretty clear she's neurodivergent. But that could just be my personal biases.
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APersonAmI

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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #101 on: 13 Feb 2019, 23:35 »

I like everything about this comment! And the paratransit services are late, so I may or may not have time to reply to it!

It isn't about what hurts Peter. It is about the splash damage. Not mocking somebody's body is about not contributing to a culture where the size and/or shape of a person's genitals is a source of shame or pride. I have made great effort lately to not use my common go-to insults because they mock appearance, cognitive ability or language skills. While me calling someone "gammon faced" seems trivial, I am increasingly uncomfortable with suggesting that being unattractive is something worth shaming someone for, even if they're being an ass. Her recognition of this was very timely for me.

Yeah... this isn't necessarily a habit I had to break in myself, as much as something became increasingly opposed to in the behavior of some of my friends, but yeah, so much this.

As for Thrillho pointing out that Brun may be far more sarcastic that we give her credit for; absolutely yes. I work in a grocery store. A large portion of our bagging staff are somewhere on the spectrum. One thing you learn about people on the spectrum (if you take the time to get to know them) is just how vast the spectrum is. Frequently, new hires have to be given some guidance on interacting with them because they understand far less about interacting with the neurodivergent baggers than those baggers understand about interacting with the rest of us.

Oh yeah. I'm on the spectrum, and I my job involves helping and informing others on the spectrum and those who live/work with them. Often, I've been told that someone on the spectrum has a "problem with authority", and my opinion has been that it's mainly the authority that has a problem with the person, not the other way around.

"Sara is totally non-communicative. Just put her at a register and let her bag. Be nice and say hello, just don't put too much pressure on her to make small talk. Mark is really into schedules, so he'll probably remember yours better than you do. It helps him feel in control if things are steady and predictable and it gives him something to talk about. Bella hasn't quite got the hang of small talk, so she's going to tell you all about what she had for lunch. Tell her about yours and give her a high five and she'll be the sweetest person you ever met. Ted? Ted was just fucking with you. It's just a little harder to figure out his sarcasm voice. You'll get the hang of it." They run the gamut form very high to very low function socially. But when you learn to stop seeing them in terms of their position on the spectrum, you can almost forget that they're on the spectrum at all.

I love that explenation rundown. It's excellent, and very useful. And the final comment is very true. My younger sister said of growing up and living with me: "I never thought of AP as different, you know? I just thought of it as part of who AP was. Like, every now and then in conversations, I'll throw out a line, like "do you get it?", and if they do, I'll keep going, otherwise I'll explain further. Never thought of it as a handicap or whatever."

Brun, if she is indeed on the spectrum, reminds me of Ted (his name has been changed just in case). He understands sarcasm perfectly well, it just isn't intuitive to him. He has to think about it. And he knows that most people assume that he doesn't get sarcasm and he uses that to his advantage. He's the sort of person who will make someone explain a racist joke just to make them feel bad for thinking a racist joke was funny. I think Brun may have been poking a little fun at Renee for her habit of giving people anatomical nick-names. And I think it worked precisely because Renee would assume Brun was being serious.

Heh. Yeah, I've done that. I don't understand all humor, especially slapstick is just arcane to me, but for a lot of it, I understand it, but it's not intuitive.

Also, there are jokes I can tell that other people really couldn't (or so people tell me). they'd sound insulting or otherwise not work while mine make people laugh. When you say something in a completely serious voice, and people know you mean exactly what you say and don't mean anything beyond that, that if you had a problem with someone you'd say so verbatim not use verbal barbs, that opens up comical possibilites.

At last years easter party, my sisters +1 made fun of a family friends hairdo, who was sitting next to me. She asks "No, it looks cute, right?" and I respond, completely serious: "Yeah, it's adorable. It looks like a cute octopus sitting on top of your head" And this was recieved with much laughter, no offense taken.

Might say more of I wasn't stressed out because I'll be late for work and it's been 25 minutes and paratransit still isn't here, but eh, you do what you can with the position you're in. I'll just press post. Might come back to this conversation after work.
« Last Edit: 13 Feb 2019, 23:59 by APersonAmI »
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Thrillho

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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #102 on: 14 Feb 2019, 00:30 »

Shit, man. I think I like Renee.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #103 on: 14 Feb 2019, 01:00 »

So, here we are and the fact that Moving Day for Renee and Brun is on the horizon. I'm wondering how that may develop going forwards and whether having her own private space may lead Brun to seize certain opportunities, so to speak.
You mean that she'll find out if some of the already introduced parts of the male population of the strip has a 'pencil-appendix' or maybe an interestingly shaped birthmark?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #104 on: 14 Feb 2019, 01:50 »

So, here we are and the fact that Moving Day for Renee and Brun is on the horizon. I'm wondering how that may develop going forwards and whether having her own private space may lead Brun to seize certain opportunities, so to speak.

You mean that she'll find out if some of the already introduced parts of the male population of the strip has a 'pencil-appendix' or maybe an interestingly shaped birthmark?

That too but I hope that having a private space and therefore a sense of partial 'ownership' of the overall space will encourage her to invite friends home and socialise in a less formal environment and on her own schedule.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #105 on: 14 Feb 2019, 02:32 »

B'errrrrrrrrrfh! 

:laugh:
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #106 on: 14 Feb 2019, 07:21 »

The berf returns! Return of the berf!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #107 on: 14 Feb 2019, 07:41 »

Shit, man. I think I like Renee.

You know what, me too. I never liked her much before, as bossy people tend to put my back up. But this strip reminded me that good people aren't always super pleasant.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #108 on: 14 Feb 2019, 10:00 »

Would we technically be 'dead-pan snarkers' when we do that? Most people have trouble telling that I'm being sarcastic unless I'm gesticulating more than normal and over-emphasizing words.
Yeah if I'm being facetious I'll speak in a silly voice and exaggerate to the point of ridiculousness too. Probably to the point it ruins the joke, but oh well, better than undercooking it lol

I like everything about this comment! And the paratransit services are late, so I may or may not have time to reply to it!

It isn't about what hurts Peter. It is about the splash damage. Not mocking somebody's body is about not contributing to a culture where the size and/or shape of a person's genitals is a source of shame or pride. I have made great effort lately to not use my common go-to insults because they mock appearance, cognitive ability or language skills. While me calling someone "gammon faced" seems trivial, I am increasingly uncomfortable with suggesting that being unattractive is something worth shaming someone for, even if they're being an ass. Her recognition of this was very timely for me.

Yeah... this isn't necessarily a habit I had to break in myself, as much as something became increasingly opposed to in the behavior of some of my friends, but yeah, so much this.

This is a hard gray area for me..on the one hand, I know why it's important to push back against gendered insults and anatomical ones and stuff, and I agree with why. On the other hand, even though everyone I know is really liberal, hell, even my down-with-capitalism politically active feminist friends casually use "bitch" and "thot" and "suck a cock" and all that. It's just...normal. And it's important to abide by the in-group markers if you want to get along with the group...so I want to cut that kind of language out, but not exile myself in the process, you know? Best I've thought of to do is use it sparingly.
« Last Edit: 14 Feb 2019, 10:14 by Milayna »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #109 on: 14 Feb 2019, 10:26 »

You could just let them use those words and not use them yourself?

You could also resolve that you don't owe us an explanation.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #110 on: 14 Feb 2019, 11:33 »

I see myself in Renee and I have ADHD.

Oh! Hi, fellow Princess of Chaos!

*secrethandshake*

:lol:

The way she has a routine that WORKS for her that she reflexively tries to impose on others, the way she’s sometimes TOO MUCH in her emotional responses to others, and her ability to track Brun’s literal but nonlinear thinking all are traits I see in myself.

This makes sense, in a kind of an unexpected kind of way ...  :laugh:

I don't identify strongly with Renee, but ... Her loyalty to Brun resonates with me. I'm "tribal as f**ck" is what I'd call it. As to feeling affinity for those on the spectrum: There is a real difference between the two conditions, methinks, and I'm very conscious of how much easier it is/was for me to 'change my coat & blend in', so I'm really wary of slipping into some patronizing 'Aspie-whisperer'-thingy ... but yeah, I feel an affinity. A lot of of Brun-isms feel 'delightfully original' rather than 'far-out' to me. I don't know whether that's spefic to ADHD, or maybe just having learned, at an early age, that brains are funky things.

As to routine: Yes, the familiar is strangely soothing ... I think that may be 'reluctantance to switching tasks'? Once I'm 'in the groove', or 'on track', - be it a habit, a task, a surrounding - just continuing is almost effortless. But ask me to go against my plan, or to 'switch tracks', and you'll see the claws come out.

I think that may have to do with the tendency to hyperfocus (and it's ugly brother, perseverance )
« Last Edit: 14 Feb 2019, 13:53 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #111 on: 14 Feb 2019, 12:10 »

Quote from: pecoros7
It isn't about what hurts Peter. It is about the splash damage.

This parallels Tova's point about not perpetuating the running gag of getting his name wrong. Now I don't feel free to call him "Pneumonia".
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #112 on: 14 Feb 2019, 14:21 »

This is a hard gray area for me..on the one hand, I know why it's important to push back against gendered insults and anatomical ones and stuff, and I agree with why. On the other hand, even though everyone I know is really liberal, hell, even my down-with-capitalism politically active feminist friends casually use "bitch" and "thot" and "suck a cock" and all that. It's just...normal. And it's important to abide by the in-group markers if you want to get along with the group...so I want to cut that kind of language out, but not exile myself in the process, you know? Best I've thought of to do is use it sparingly.

I don't think it's necessarily an either/or thing. A few of my closest female friends and I often used to greet each other with such charming phrases as "Hey slagamuffin!" or "Long time no see, you old slutbag!" Many of our gay and bi male friends also joined in with the affectionately insulting frivolities. It was just what we did. Gradually, though, we just seem to have... ceased. Over the years, I think we just became a bit less inclined to use insults as a group badge.

At any rate, there was always a massive difference between the way we spoke to each other in private, the way we spoke to each other in public, and the way we spoke to strangers. If we'd gone to the pub as a group, for example, and someone had brought along their new date, we wouldn't have used insults in friendly conversation unless the newcomer made it extremely clear that they were comfortable with such (by initiating it).

I think it's fine to use whatever language we're comfortable with among our close friends, but that doesn't mean condoning shitty lanuage in general. My best friend can call me a slag if she wants; she can, and will, still look askance at some random person that calls me that, and preferably aid me in some pithy riposte.
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zisraelsen

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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #113 on: 14 Feb 2019, 19:53 »

Comic!

Elliot's "I am daydreaming about something inappropriate" face in panel 4 is hilariously realistic to me.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #114 on: 14 Feb 2019, 21:32 »

She really does make a cute kitten.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #115 on: 14 Feb 2019, 22:17 »

Renee may not know much about cats.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #116 on: 14 Feb 2019, 22:54 »

Renee may not know much about cats.

Agreed.  Although I would’ve liked to see an odd couple storyline.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #117 on: 14 Feb 2019, 23:13 »

For all I understand Renee and Brun's thoughts and reasons for wanting to continue to live together, I have to admit that I am thinking it is going to turn out to be harder, long-term, than either of them expect.

That aside, Elliott is a real manga pin-up freak, isn't he? He's seen Brun as a cleaning maid, a Senshi and now as a neko girl. I'm not sure if those are 'fetishes', per se, or if he's just so into manga that he always visualises attractive girls in those frameworks! I wonder I Brun (and, on one occasion, Hannelore) are the only ones that have starred in his inner animé in such a manner?

Finally: Renee, it's good that you're looking out for your friend but it really isn't your business if Elliott is having 'thoughts'. You should know him well enough to know that this is as far as it will ever go.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #118 on: 14 Feb 2019, 23:51 »

And now we see in another scene that Renee felt living together had been and would work. We had signs of this, as I mentioned previously, but now we have verbal confirmation with someone other than Brun, I suppose.

Renee's point in the third panel is actually a pretty common benefit of roommates on the spectrum. I have a partner with Asperger's, and when we are in the same apartment, it will be a balance of spending time together actively, and being next to each other while we do our own things. It's a pleasant way to hang out, I feel.

You still don't have any say over what happens in his head, Renee.

So, uh. On the cat thing. I've been thinking - Does Renee have a habit of assuming her own feelings are more misanthropic than they actually are? I was thinking about that before this comic. When she had a crush on Elliot, she assumed she just liked making fun of him. When she acted protective towards Brun earlier this morning, she said that she'd been "insecure". Now, she reduces feelings of friendship while living together to what she imagines it is like to have a pet. Renee, I think you might like people more than you know.

For all I understand Renee and Brun's thoughts and reasons for wanting to continue to live together, I have to admit that I am thinking it is going to turn out to be harder, long-term, than either of them expect.

Okay. Why is that? This is a case where both Renee and Brun seems to have enjoyed living together like this more than they did living alone. Of course, living together will have its cons, everything does, but this was actually a pretty good test run. This is more confirmation that living together as roommates is a good idea then many people who make this decision have before they make it.


That aside, Elliott is a real manga pin-up freak, isn't he? He's seen Brun as a cleaning maid, a Senshi and now as a neko girl. I'm not sure if those are 'fetishes', per se, or if he's just so into manga that he always visualises attractive girls in those frameworks! I wonder I Brun (and, on one occasion, Hannelore) are the only ones that have starred in his inner animé in such a manner?

Cleaning maids, cat girls and Senshi are definitely fetishes in the stereotypical or larger cultural sense, at least. The way he blushes and imagines these things makes me feel like it is fair to call them that?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #119 on: 14 Feb 2019, 23:54 »

For all I understand Renee and Brun's thoughts and reasons for wanting to continue to live together, I have to admit that I am thinking it is going to turn out to be harder, long-term, than either of them expect.

Okay. Why is that?

Because, fundamentally, living together and sharing a space with someone who may have behaviours or friends that you occasionally find irritating is hard. Renee and Brun are committing to share owning a space which means they're committing themselves to tolerance of each other's quirks and associates in the long term.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #120 on: 15 Feb 2019, 00:01 »

Yes. As opposed to the difficulties of living alone, such as isolation and not having someone else around to readily face the difficulties of home ownership together with.

Yeah, living together with someone can be hard, but the whole point is that you have someone there to help you shoulder any burdens you face together, including that one. Brun and Renee seem to think each other compatible, and I'm inclined to believe them. Thanks for clarifying, though! :)
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Tova

Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #121 on: 15 Feb 2019, 00:29 »

Because, fundamentally, living together and sharing a space with someone who may have behaviours or friends that you occasionally find irritating is hard.

At least Renee and Brun are already aware of the specific behaviours that they occasionally find irritating, so they have a slight advantage over most people who decide to move in with each other.

Introduce me to any pair of people who share a space without either having any behaviours the other occasionally finds irritating, and I'll introduce you to my good friend Peter Pan.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #122 on: 15 Feb 2019, 01:29 »

For all I understand Renee and Brun's thoughts and reasons for wanting to continue to live together, I have to admit that I am thinking it is going to turn out to be harder, long-term, than either of them expect.

Okay. Why is that?

Because, fundamentally, living together and sharing a space with someone who may have behaviours or friends that you occasionally find irritating is hard. Renee and Brun are committing to share owning a space which means they're committing themselves to tolerance of each other's quirks and associates in the long term.
That's why you get a mobile home together and each takes a room on opposite ends.
(Currently renting one with my younger brother while his credit score recovers.)

Also, it's generally best to lay out some ground rules together. Chores, dishes, food, cooking, etc. As well as what all gets shared.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #123 on: 15 Feb 2019, 02:22 »

That's why you get a mobile home together and each takes a room on opposite ends.

Well, indeed, having your own space is vital. As Renee said:

Number 3938: "Don't you miss, like, having your own space?"

So I daresay that Renee is more aware of the long-term difficulties than has been suggested.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #124 on: 15 Feb 2019, 03:01 »

*snip*
Cleaning maids, cat girls and Senshi are definitely fetishes in the stereotypical or larger cultural sense, at least. The way he blushes and imagines these things makes me feel like it is fair to call them that?

If so, then at least Brun is wearing her normal t-shirt and jeans along with having nekomimi and a tail.
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #125 on: 15 Feb 2019, 08:01 »

Again, AWWWWW. So cute!

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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #126 on: 15 Feb 2019, 08:37 »

*snip*
Cleaning maids, cat girls and Senshi are definitely fetishes in the stereotypical or larger cultural sense, at least. The way he blushes and imagines these things makes me feel like it is fair to call them that?

If so, then at least Brun is wearing her normal t-shirt and jeans along with having nekomimi and a tail.

...and a collar with a heart shaped pendant.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3936-3940 (11-15 February 2019)
« Reply #127 on: 18 Feb 2019, 17:28 »

I'm still shipping Roko and Clinton.  Clintko?  Naw, sounds like a discount store.  Clintro?  Rokton?
Ronton.
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