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Poll

Hanners and Winslow are home! What's first on the agenda?

Hanners getting used to Mr. Burny again.
- 6 (16.7%)
The Spiders. THIS time, it's personal.
- 2 (5.6%)
Winslow de-scorpioning himself.
- 10 (27.8%)
Absolutely nothing.
- 10 (27.8%)
Purple Monkey Dishwashers.
- 2 (5.6%)
Something completely Different.
- 5 (13.9%)
Crowing chromium crone
- 1 (2.8%)

Total Members Voted: 36


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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)  (Read 4895 times)

jwhouk

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WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« on: 04 Aug 2019, 17:10 »

And here we go.

(Mods, feel free to add or alter the poll.)
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #1 on: 04 Aug 2019, 19:09 »

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #2 on: 04 Aug 2019, 19:21 »

Is there an AI analog for Prozac?

(I HATE that "I wanna stay in bed all day" feeling.)
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #3 on: 04 Aug 2019, 19:27 »

I was thinking more "robot xanax"
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #4 on: 04 Aug 2019, 19:45 »

Hanners takes two steps forward and Winslow takes three back. He really needs to talk to someone.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #5 on: 04 Aug 2019, 20:29 »

He really needs to talk to someone.

Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #6 on: 04 Aug 2019, 20:45 »

I'm hoping for some sort of Winslow/Melon contact.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #7 on: 04 Aug 2019, 20:58 »

I was thinking more "robot xanax"
[/quote suppose it would be similar to what AIs use to get high.  We've seen Roko and Omalley use an alcohol analog, and Pintsize using weed and mushroom .
  The thing is, Winslow has to acknowledge that things aren't right with him.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #8 on: 04 Aug 2019, 22:02 »

I fear Winslow DID pick up a thing or two from Hanners. Might be a... well, "lack of context" - for the lack of a better expression.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #9 on: 04 Aug 2019, 23:17 »

You know, I really think that Hannelore has underestimated just how her Great Journey of Self-Finding may have traumatised Winslow!

Of course, before getting his anthropomimetic chassis, Winslow was pretty much a stay-at-home AI beyond going over to Marten and Faye's apartment occasionally to hang out with Pintslze. So, in some ways, he's going back to his basics by being fairly idle when not actively helping Hannelore with anything.

That said, I'm pretty sure that this is all going to turn into some kind of parable about confronting the wider world and how the easy path isn't the best. I can already hear Marten muttering something about how giving advice is easier when your friend in need isn't just doing what you do but to a far more extreme degree!
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #10 on: 05 Aug 2019, 03:59 »

I know exactly how Winslow feels. It’s easier to just stay with the familiar and safe.

It’s also a trap. Which is why, instead of sitting at home doing nothing, I’m traveling. I’m currently in the city of Lugo, Spain, where I just spent the morning exploring the city’s fully intact Roman walls. How cool is that? I can’t do that back in Northampton.

I mean, I could stay at home instead of traveling to a country where I barely speak the language, but what kind of a person would I be then? It’s good to get out of the rut I was in, however comfortable that rut may have been.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #11 on: 05 Aug 2019, 04:32 »

In regards to the poll; the spiders have done nothing wrong and they aren't trying to hurt anyone.
Leave them alone.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #12 on: 05 Aug 2019, 05:17 »

I think the problem here is that Winslow doesn't appreciate all the good he got to experience, he's so focused on the bad.
He's gotten to see things most of us can only dream of.
He's helped connect a small monastery to the rest of the world.
His dearest friend has made one of the biggest breakthroughs of her life and is healthier for the experience.

And he can't see that. Which is a shame.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #13 on: 05 Aug 2019, 08:13 »

I'm hoping for some sort of Winslow/Melon contact.
Now THAT would make for an interesting romance.  (Wait a minute, did she already meet him in the therapy group?)
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #14 on: 05 Aug 2019, 08:45 »

Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

Personally I think Winslow has the right idea.  Pigeons arenít venomous, but they might as well be with the level of diseases they carry.  Better to just observe.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #15 on: 05 Aug 2019, 08:53 »

Even better than observing them:
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #16 on: 05 Aug 2019, 09:05 »

He really needs to talk to someone.
Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.
SOMEONE ELSE.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #17 on: 05 Aug 2019, 09:07 »

This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.

I do think that Hannelore might benefit from being more aware of how negatively Winslow viewed and continues to view the whole experience (she was failing to notice his fears when they visited the seabed research base, IIRC). However, on the other hand, Winslow should know enough from her experiences to know that simply hiding from your fear and pain does not help.

All that said, I do not believe that this should be considered even about 'who is terrible' but rather 'how can I help'. Blame is misplaced when there is no obvious way anyone could have foreseen fault.

He really needs to talk to someone.

Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.

SOMEONE ELSE.

I kind of want Momo and May to come to visit and that to shake him out of his rut. Especially when May excitably tells him about her recent new experiences.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #18 on: 05 Aug 2019, 09:10 »

Even better than observing them:
[[snippage]]
Especially if you identify with this fellow.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #19 on: 05 Aug 2019, 09:35 »

Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

I don't think its even about Winslow not appreciating the impact it's had on Hannelore. Just that by focusing so much on the bad, Winslow has missed so much on the good. Yeah, you're always going to have bad experiences when you travel, but you can't let them alone colour the whole experience. Worst time I ever had travelling was when I was stuck on an overnight ferry crossing caught in a storm. That was basically 12 hours vomiting, but by the same token, during that trip I got to see Snowdonia National Park covered in fog from partway up Mount Snowdon. 12 hours puking versus a spectacular view that could be imagined as something primordial? No contest.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #20 on: 05 Aug 2019, 10:23 »

... when May excitably tells him about her recent new experiences.

 with a melon
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #21 on: 05 Aug 2019, 10:39 »

I don't think that Melon was involved.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #22 on: 05 Aug 2019, 12:45 »

Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

I don't think its even about Winslow not appreciating the impact it's had on Hannelore. Just that by focusing so much on the bad, Winslow has missed so much on the good. Yeah, you're always going to have bad experiences when you travel, but you can't let them alone colour the whole experience. Worst time I ever had travelling was when I was stuck on an overnight ferry crossing caught in a storm. That was basically 12 hours vomiting, but by the same token, during that trip I got to see Snowdonia National Park covered in fog from partway up Mount Snowdon. 12 hours puking versus a spectacular view that could be imagined as something primordial? No contest.

Agree to disagree, I guess? If I knew in advance I'd have to puke for 12 hours to see something, I just *might* pass on seeing the frickin' Island of Atlantis, moreso any view that exists in the real world.

Some people just don't enjoy travelling at all, being intensely uncomfortable not because of the specifics, but because of the fact of travelling alone. I ain't saying Winslow is like that, because he does seem to complain about specific bad things that happened, but it's possible that he isn't wired* for that kind of stuff.

I generally tend to think that if someone doesn't appreciate something (anything, really), insisting that they're just missing the good stuff is failure to appreciate a different perspective. People have tried to guilt me into "enjoying" things on enough occasions that I appreciate Winslow's attitude, even if I see how it can limit his life experience. I don't think anyone has an obligation to expand their horizons, to have "fun" doing any specific thing, or to appreciate anything.

(I do see the potential for the discussion devolving into arguing "who is bad here". I'm just pointing out that Winslow isn't hurting anyone by "not appreciating" being out of his home or out of his comfort zone.)

Incidentally, I wonder how Hannelore missed it if Winslow was as intensely uncomfortable with the travels as the comic seems to imply he was.

* - I wonder if that particular expression carries some baggage in QC's world, what with sapient machines existing and the like.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #23 on: 05 Aug 2019, 14:43 »

I don't think that Melon was involved.
Just an unfortunate fruit from the produce department.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #24 on: 05 Aug 2019, 21:56 »

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #25 on: 05 Aug 2019, 22:41 »

Sometimes reassuring people makes things worse ...
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #26 on: 05 Aug 2019, 23:19 »

On the one hand, we see behavior in Winslow that give us reasons to suspect anxiety that other characters have not, so we may be inclined to agree with Hanners that there is a potential problem brewing. We also have the advantage of reading this as a crafted narrative and understand (at least in an intuitive way) narrative language and conventions, so we know that seeing those signs is a deliberate choice by the author to let us know that.

On the other hand, from the point of view of any of the characters, Winslow has just returned to his comfort zone after a long voyage around the world. It is perfectly reasonable for Dora to think he just needs a few days to decompress and return to a state of normal. Wanting to sit and watch pigeons is a pretty normal thing for him to want to do.

So from the perspective of the reader, she's probably right to be worried. But from the perspective of the characters, she's probably overreacting. But if Winslow is developing an anxiety problem, intervening earlier is probably better than later. It's actually kind of hard for me to decide what I expect Hanners to do in this situation.

Also, unrelated, does the waist of his pants say "BEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP"?
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #27 on: 05 Aug 2019, 23:25 »

Much as I'm wondering if Hanners is being overbearing, I can agree with the notion that "I'm sure it will be fine" can have some real issues. Giving space and time is one thing, shrugging and not doing anything is another.

Also I don't recall what it is called, but it might be something akin to codependency. I wonder if Winston will have taken over Hannelore's more shut-in personality traits after this. That in turn will raise interesting questions about Hannelore's responsibilities towards him. Are they equals? Or is Hannelore have a responsibility more like with a child or subordinate? (Not talking about AnthroPCs in general, Hanners and Winslow).

So yeah, I'm interested in where this is going
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #28 on: 05 Aug 2019, 23:32 »

I know that it's totally off-topic but, IMO, today's strip is one of the first times in a very long time that Jeph has made Hannelore look attractive. I get why this is: Normally, Jeph uses Hannelore's appearance to emphasise her issues - untidy and sometimes borderline self-harm cropped hair, being thin to the point of looking malnourished, facial expressions that emphasise her unfamiliarity with social interactions and the like. However, Hannelore now has had a breakthrough. This Hannelore is determined to no longer let her mental health issues dominate and define her and, for the first time in a while, we see a Hannelore that is genuinely comfortable in her skin and this manifests itself in an acceptance that she actually is quite beautiful.

Onto the subject of the strip, I agree with Hannelore that "I'm sure it will be fine" are famous last words. However, that doesn't mean that she should be pressing the panic button. This is a situation that requires careful communication, not a full-strength intervention (at least not at this part).

Now... Was Dora saying that Hannelore was reminding her of Beatrice at this point? We all grow up to be our parents in some way and, frankly, from whom else would have young Hannelore have learned the 'listen to me and learn your lesson' facial expression and vocal tone?
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #29 on: 06 Aug 2019, 01:29 »

I know that it's totally off-topic but, IMO, today's strip is one of the first times in a very long time that Jeph has made Hannelore look attractive.

I was just thinking "Wow, comfortable Hanners looks great."

Also that I kinda wish I could pull off wearing that outfit, 'cause it looks super comfy.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #30 on: 06 Aug 2019, 01:31 »

Is there an AI analog for Prozac?

This is actually a really interesting question to me. Humans can and do mitigate their own symptoms of mental or emotional illness with medication that alters their brain chemistry and helps regulate their moods. Presumably, one could do the same for an AI (assuming you understood the underlying code of their personality well enough) with programming, and you could probably do it more accurately and effectively than humans can with medication (which can be hit or miss).

BUT, that would also be altering their core programming, something that is such a big no-no that even spookybot would be unwilling to do so, even when it would help someone. AIs may have to do without anything like antidepressants for purely ethical reasons.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #31 on: 06 Aug 2019, 03:58 »

I'm getting the feeling that Hannelore is slowing feeling guilty for bringing Winslow to a journey he most likely wouldn't have chosen for himself.
I wonder how the conversation between the two will be.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #32 on: 06 Aug 2019, 05:52 »

I know that it's totally off-topic but, IMO, today's strip is one of the first times in a very long time that Jeph has made Hannelore look attractive.
Thank you; it's not just me then.

Quote from: BenRG
Was Dora saying that Hannelore was reminding her of Beatrice at this point? We all grow up to be our parents in some way and, frankly, from whom else would have young Hannelore have learned the 'listen to me and learn your lesson' facial expression and vocal tone?
I'm on board with this.  That was my initial reaction as well: "She looks like her mother!  Run for it!"
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #33 on: 06 Aug 2019, 06:58 »

Yeah, I dunno about asking DORA for AI advice.

Bubbles, maybe. In Hanners' circle of friends...

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #34 on: 06 Aug 2019, 07:06 »

Quote from: BenRG
Was Dora saying that Hannelore was reminding her of Beatrice at this point? We all grow up to be our parents in some way and, frankly, from whom else would have young Hannelore have learned the 'listen to me and learn your lesson' facial expression and vocal tone?
I'm on board with this.  That was my initial reaction as well: "She looks like her mother!  Run for it!"

She does have "The Voice" after all: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3637
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #35 on: 06 Aug 2019, 09:36 »

I think there's a danger here - which is anthropomorphizing Winslow just because he has a humaniform body now. 

He may be a person, but he's an AI, not a human.   Back when he was in his little Ipod body, he was basically exactly the same as this script shows.  He was an unadventurous homebody - kind of a stick in the mud who liked to stay in the apartment and was always the sweaterboy to Pintsize's absolute nightmare.  That's who he is.  That's his personality. 

So now that Winslow has a human-looking pink twink body, rather than being a walking Ipod, all of the sudden his homebodiness is an expression of human mental pathology, rather than just being who he is as a person?  Seems rather narrow minded to me. 
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #36 on: 06 Aug 2019, 10:08 »

I think there's a danger here - which is anthropomorphizing Winslow just because he has a humaniform body now. 
I see what you're saying, but anthropomorphization was the stated goal of whoever designed his current higher end (toes AND nipples!) chassis.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #37 on: 06 Aug 2019, 10:19 »

It's also not as if the AI of this world have been absent of human-like mental issues up to this point. Bubbles literally compartmentalized something analogous to PTSD. Roko's body issues. Etc.

If we assume nothing about Winslow has changed (I think something has, but that's another topic), it seems to me more likely that this is less deciding he has a problem now because he has a new body, and more that a pre-existing issue has been made more apparent because of the increase in sympathy.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #38 on: 06 Aug 2019, 10:32 »

I think there's a danger here - which is anthropomorphizing Winslow just because he has a humaniform body now. 
I see what you're saying, but anthropomorphization was the stated goal of whoever designed his current higher end (toes AND nipples!) chassis.

I am wondering if this storyline will end with Winslow voluntarily returning to his prior ipod-like body after realizing that he was happier that way and has no particular need or want for a humaniform body. I would be interested in such a storyline, actually, to show that having a humaniform body is not the end-all be-all.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #39 on: 06 Aug 2019, 11:01 »

That in turn will raise interesting questions about Hannelore's responsibilities towards him. Are they equals? Or is Hannelore have a responsibility more like with a child or subordinate? (Not talking about AnthroPCs in general, Hanners and Winslow).

Going back to the very beginning, well before the AIERA Hannelore and Winslow's relationship was more peer to peer than the other AI-human companionship contracts.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #40 on: 06 Aug 2019, 11:07 »

Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

I don't think its even about Winslow not appreciating the impact it's had on Hannelore. Just that by focusing so much on the bad, Winslow has missed so much on the good. Yeah, you're always going to have bad experiences when you travel, but you can't let them alone colour the whole experience. Worst time I ever had travelling was when I was stuck on an overnight ferry crossing caught in a storm. That was basically 12 hours vomiting, but by the same token, during that trip I got to see Snowdonia National Park covered in fog from partway up Mount Snowdon. 12 hours puking versus a spectacular view that could be imagined as something primordial? No contest.

Agree to disagree, I guess? If I knew in advance I'd have to puke for 12 hours to see something, I just *might* pass on seeing the frickin' Island of Atlantis, moreso any view that exists in the real world.

Some people just don't enjoy travelling at all, being intensely uncomfortable not because of the specifics, but because of the fact of travelling alone. I ain't saying Winslow is like that, because he does seem to complain about specific bad things that happened, but it's possible that he isn't wired* for that kind of stuff.

I generally tend to think that if someone doesn't appreciate something (anything, really), insisting that they're just missing the good stuff is failure to appreciate a different perspective. People have tried to guilt me into "enjoying" things on enough occasions that I appreciate Winslow's attitude, even if I see how it can limit his life experience. I don't think anyone has an obligation to expand their horizons, to have "fun" doing any specific thing, or to appreciate anything.

(I do see the potential for the discussion devolving into arguing "who is bad here". I'm just pointing out that Winslow isn't hurting anyone by "not appreciating" being out of his home or out of his comfort zone.)

Incidentally, I wonder how Hannelore missed it if Winslow was as intensely uncomfortable with the travels as the comic seems to imply he was.

* - I wonder if that particular expression carries some baggage in QC's world, what with sapient machines existing and the like.

Probably because she was concentrating on not freaking out while pushing herself to the limits which undoubtedly leads to the accusation that Hannelore should be more sensitive even though Winslow never objected.  Winslow is his own person and could have declined to go on this adventure, but he didn't.  So then the accusation is that Hannelore should've known Winslow would be too loyal to object and should've employed someone else.  Of course if she did Winslow would probably feel bad about being left out which would inevitably lead to accusations that she presumed to know Winslow's feelings and acted without his consent.  And then we have Winslow.  He stuck it out.  He was with Hannelore the whole time and he didn't enjoy it.  He is entitled to his opinion too. 
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #41 on: 06 Aug 2019, 11:20 »

Except Winslow isn't expressing that opinion, he's shutting down and not engaging with Hanners.
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brasca

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #42 on: 06 Aug 2019, 12:15 »

Hannelore isnít a mind reader.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #43 on: 06 Aug 2019, 12:19 »

Of course she isn't, but Winslow isn't saying a word, he's just looking at the pigeons outside. And it looks like that might be all he's planning on doing.

Hanners is going to have to talk to Winslow sooner, rather than later, but if he's just going to be looking at pigeons, well there's a limit to how much Hanners or anyone might be able to.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #44 on: 06 Aug 2019, 12:23 »

For me it all seem very weird. A day or two after a long trip taking some time to relax and rewind seem.. healthy? That what I would do and recommend friends to do. And when looking out the window he has a big genuine smile.
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Shjade

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #45 on: 06 Aug 2019, 12:29 »

I'm starting to feel like this is an always-relevant chorus, but:

The comic's story beats take time to develop.

I'm with Chalk on this: it seems a bit early to worry (which isn't unusual for Hannelore, Professional Worrier). I'd probably need a week or so to decompress after a trip like that myself, a week I would most likely spend not leaving my room unless it's necessary.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #46 on: 06 Aug 2019, 15:51 »

Also, unrelated, does the waist of his pants say "BEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP"?

No, but it should. A friend now has a new embroidery project.

And scary Hanners momface will be somebody's new gravatar in 3.. 2.. 1..
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Penquin47

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #47 on: 06 Aug 2019, 16:12 »

It looks like it does to me!  (Underwear pants, not trousers pants.)
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Blackjoker

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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #48 on: 06 Aug 2019, 16:50 »

With Winslow I think part of the issue is just that he has had a lot happen in a short period. He is anxious and also a bit scared. He was exposed to a lot of new things when he traveled with Hannelore, he was there as her friend but I can also understand him feeling afraid or uneasy. Being somewhere relatively safe, somewhere that he doesn't have the outside world invading him (how he seemed to view the situation when travelling) is soothing and he feels safer. There is a risk of him becoming agoraphobic or a shut in. However I should also point out that Winslow was along on the trip out of a kind of obligation to Hannelore. She found adversity caused her to become her better self, or at least make a breakthrough. Winslow found the situation and found himself more afraid afterwards.
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Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
« Reply #49 on: 06 Aug 2019, 16:58 »

When Winslow is more widely traveled, he will come to understand that scorpions just want to feel warm and safe. Just like you!
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