Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Yes

11 (26.8%)

No

2 (4.9%)

Yes, but since God is omniscient the outcome of our free choices is already known

7 (17.1%)

No, but we should act as though we did

13 (31.7%)

Cobranded cobalt kobold

8 (19.5%)

Total Members Voted: 39

[rtmq0227]

Comic's up.

I guess Roko didn't read the entire user's manual...

And now it's time to play Roko's favorite game: Sudden calming reason or DISSOCIATIVE  EPISODE!!!

Seriously, nothing reminds you your body is not your own like it overriding your desires to preserve itself.

[Shjade]

Judging by the visual distortion, I'm betting dissociative episode.

[rtmq0227]

Of course, you would have thought this pop-up would have occurred during her self-destructive face-washing episode.

[brasca]

Of course, you would have thought this pop-up would have occurred during her self-destructive face-washing episode.

Perhaps that wasn't destructive enough to trigger this defense mechanism.  Punching a wall is different and while this does not help her dissociative disorder it's really for the best.  Bubbles can punch a wall without any problems, but this would require a trip to Union Robotics. 

[TheEvilDog]

Well that's actually scary....

[Tova]

That is some pretty impressive spyware tech.

[Tyr]

I was all ready to be "Y'see that? That's growth!" to Roko stopping herself.

But it wasn't Roko.

This REALLY isn't her body. If it was, she'd be able to destroy it as she sees fit.



That goddamned smiley at the end... Ugh...

[shanejayell]

Yikes.

I'm GUESSING it's either a recent add-on, or it can be hacked. Or you'd never have Robot Fight Club like we had earlier in the series...

[cesium133]

It’s gotta be a recent addon, otherwise Roko would have had it on her old chassis.

[St.Clair]

Comic's up.

I guess Roko didn't read the entire user's manual...

They never do.

Once I got past the "YIKES" with everyone else, I thought:
"Huh.  Reinforced Third Law."

[ischaemia]

I dunno if we have free will, but it's pretty evident Roko doesn't.

Seems nightmarish.

[Raptorofwar]

Well, the universe is like a game of pool. Your brain is guided by physics, which is guided through outside causes. Sure, there's quantum randomness so the pool table analogy doesn't quite fit, but that can't be called any kind of free will. You can't control the spin of electrons.

Also, this panel seems like it's going to cause body dysphoria for Roko.

[Morituri]

This seems like the sort of feature that would have to be disabled before the body were ever issued to a serving police officer.  Which Roko was, at the time she got it.

If the police departments don't know about this, then it's going to look really bad when some crucial moment comes and officers are stopped by the fundamental BIOS running on their chassis, not even remotely under their control, from doing something to prevent harm coming to others, or even stopped from defending themselves.

[cesium133]

I don’t want to go on an archive binge right now, but I’m pretty sure the Crushbot incident was after she quit from the police department.

[Tova]

I feel like this plot twist has been introduced purely to give Spookybot something new to do.

[Elder Sign]

If the police departments don't know about this, then it's going to look really bad when some crucial moment comes and officers are stopped by the fundamental BIOS running on their chassis, not even remotely under their control, from doing something to prevent harm coming to others, or even stopped from defending themselves.

So basically, problems with Three Laws compliance?

I feel like this plot twist has been introduced purely to give Spookybot something new to do.

Isn't everything?  What's a story arc these days without our friendly neighbourhood robotic gestalt entity with the eminently punchable demeanour?

[Gyrre]

Uninstall?
Y/N

Y

...
Are you sure?
Y/N?

Y

...
Are really really sure?
Y/N

Y


Likely ad infinitum or until she gets a prompt informing her that she just voided the warranty by uninstalling that.

[Tova]

... she gets a prompt informing her that she just voided the warranty by uninstalling that.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is what she discovers in tomorrow's strip upon reading the user manual.

[Case]

There's something that confuses me.

If a disembodied AI requesting a body is a rare occurrence, then I would have thought that a commensurately small budget allotment would nonetheless have been sufficient to obtain for that very small number of AIs a fully functioning chassis? If it isn't, then that doesn't sound commensurate to me. What am I missing?

I wondered about just that.

Maybe it's the department that is missing something? Part of their budget meant to support AIs on parole, say ...

[Drunken Old Man]

Isn't everything?  What's a story arc these days without our friendly neighbourhood robotic gestalt entity with the eminently punchable demeanour?

Preferable?  Welcome?  Refreshing?  I mean, we did have a nice long run without Spooks the last few weeks and I, for one, didn't miss them.

[Scarlet Manuka]

There's something that confuses me.

If a disembodied AI requesting a body is a rare occurrence, then I would have thought that a commensurately small budget allotment would nonetheless have been sufficient to obtain for that very small number of AIs a fully functioning chassis? If it isn't, then that doesn't sound commensurate to me. What am I missing?

Perhaps most of the AIs who request embodiment are willing to put up -- or at least start out -- with the cheaper miniature models (Pintsize type, original Momo type, spider type, etc.) and May's request for a full scale humanoid chassis has taken a disproportionate amount of the available budget already. There's no way they can possibly afford to get her another (and probably more expensive) one on top.

I can easily imagine there being an upper limit per parolee for the amount the agency is allowed to spend on embodiment, and it probably only just covers the cheapest available humanoid chassis models so they can say they are providing a humanoid option. May's probably used up her allowance already, or near enough.

Edit: I don't think the comparisons to Roko are germane. Roko had her previous body her whole life. May didn't have a body before this so she could not have built up a psychological dependence on a specific kind of body in the same way that Roko had. And it's been mentioned in-comic that Roko's level of integration with her old body was unusually high.

Edit 2: The real question is, when it tells me there were a whole bunch of new posts while I was typing, how did the post I'm replying to (and the one before it) manage to get included in the list?

[SeattleCrochetWoman]

This seems like the sort of feature that would have to be disabled before the body were ever issued to a serving police officer.  Which Roko was, at the time she got it.

I believe she’d already quit the police force when her accident happened.

[Tova]

Roko had her previous body her whole life.

That's another thing I'm not 100% clear on. How does an AI first come to occupy a chassis? Are they entirely dependant on a companion buying one? If they don't get a companion, do they just go into massive debt?

[BenRG]

This is fascinating in a way and it shows that the engineers who built the Philomena-G were thinking ahead about possible equipment abuse. In it's own way, this isn't that different from the reflex responses that stop us from engaging in destructive actions and make us respond far more quickly than our conscious minds can process data to remove ourselves from a source of harm.

I'm pretty sure that Roko can probably turn off OopsieGuard^TM on her settings page by using her admin password (which the hallucination of her body's 'spirit' gave to her).

That said, yeah, she's going to go into a deep dissociative episode here and may even be damaged by it.

[Is it cold in here?]

I hope Roko finds a more successful approach but it's probably better to just leave this guy alone. As a rule I don't believe people should be rewarded for poor behaviour (and this guy sounds like being left alone is exactly what he wants) but it doesn't seem like forcing him to take his job more seriously is going to be beneficial for anyone.

Welcome, new person!

Agreed, he seems like the type who is best bypassed rather than confronted.

[Is it cold in here?]

May's right to what?

Right to make a living. Her body is an impediment to supporting herself.

If I were a civil rights lawyer in the QC world, I'd argue that it's an 8th Amendment violation under the deliberate indifference standard to issue someone still under correctional control a defective body. I might even appeal to emotion by asking the jury how they'd feel if their arm fell off because of deliberate neglect.

There must be low-spec refurbished bodies out there which fit into a tight budget but that would meet minimal standards of decency.

I had to register to poke in on this. This is absolutely where I think this is going. AnthroPCs aren't required to have humanoid chassis, but to me it seems like with the fact they're sentients and the like, there should be at the very least a minimum expectation. May is considered "enough of a person" to be imprisoned, given a parole officer, and all that jazz-- therefore, there is some onus on the state to prove that May, a humanoid that has been considered enough of a person to be convicted and parolled, does not require a new body to function as a member of society.

There is now a litany of documented evidence that the body given to her by the state is subpar and forms a burden on her. Her debt to society has been paid-- they're actively inhibiting her at this point which is a big no-no. This is also why I think that banning AI from renting out processor time (which is the literal equivalent of banning a human from ever working 90% of available jobs probably) is probably an unconstitutional punishment that the Supreme Court hasn't waded into yet. But they're gonna have to eventually....

This is the sort of thing that starts a civil rights movement, TBH.

Welcome, new person!

The AI civil rights movement looks like it has more work to do.

Jeph may have based this on research into the correctional system for organic people in our world. Unnecessary obstacles are placed in the path of people trying to go straight after prison.

[TV4Fun]

Of course, you would have thought this pop-up would have occurred during her self-destructive face-washing episode.

There might have been a new update released since then.

[Dngrsone]

The problem is that he doesn't realize the connections Roko has. He is literally blowing off someone who is friends with something (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3412) who could destroy his life, the life of his family, his friends, and even their families as an example.

I'm just surprised that Roko hasn't involved them prior to this point, although I assume she wanted to try the normal channels first.

Siccing Spooky on someone who is just doing his job (badly, perhaps, but still doing it) is absolutely loathsome.

And lazy.  My biggest problem with Spookybot and for that matter Hannelore is they have the potential to be deus ex machinas when there’s a problem beyond the other characters’ abilities to fix.  An easy fix for the sake of a happy ending doesn’t happen all that often in real life.  Even though this is a webcomic I prefer it follow certain storytelling rules.

This has been addressed.  Hanner's tried to punish a restaurant that gave Marten food poisoning by siccing her mother on them, and Marten told her no, that it was an accident and the family shouldn't be made to pay for a random occurrence. 

Spookybot is a chaotic neutral entity at best with really only one hard-fast rule (don't muck around in other people's minds).  That they donated $2m to charitable causes only shows how hard they are trying to be friend-worthy to Roko (I imagine being that powerful makes one seriously lonely).

In a nutshell, Spookybot doesn't care, is not going to care, and frankly shouldn't care.

Also bear in mind that May doesn't want charity.  The only reason she's letting Roko go with this is because she's looking for a little justice: she's paid her dues, is rehabilitated and rehabilitating (thanks in large part to Dale and Momo), but the shackles still applied to her courtesy of the body assignment department of robot jail are keeping her from carrying on with her life.

[JoeCovenant]

I'm sorry to bring this back to the dude in the office.

I've read a couple of posts above (below??) takling about how the guy may well have been dismissive, cold etc... but trying to justify that as there IS nothing he can do, and it's his way of coping.

Except...
It's his JOB to deal with 'people' (Meat or AI).
It is NOT his job to be cold, rude, dismissive - it is (perhaps) his job to tell people like Roko that what they are asking for, through no fault of his own, isn't possible. (This all being supposition from what he said to Roko.. whether or not it IS the case is yet to be seen, I think).
And I doubt that the words "must be rude, dismissive and cold to customers" is in his job description.

To attempt to justify his actions because "he's seen it to oftne" or "There actually isn't anything that can be done" negates the impact those things can have on his 'customers'. It's an extreme example, but...

He is the front line dude.
Someone (Lets just say an AI) is at the end of their tether, their legs keep falling off. They can't hold down a job because of this. They have literally nowhere else to turn. They come to see this guy and he acts like the douche he acted like... The AI decides they can't handle it and go scrap themselves.

Extreme, no?

No, not really.
The cold, rude and base uncaring face of bureaucracy has caused suicides, mental anguish and murders IRL.
If this guy is so affected by his job that this is the way he is acting.
He needs to find another job.

(Statement of Interest: I work in a government dept. that has seen exactly that sort of fall-out due to 'colleagues' who are burned out and lost every jot of empathy they ever had. Some people lose faith in the system they work for because they cannot make REAL differences, and that turns to a hardening against the customers because they can't do what the customer wants/needs them to do. Then, sadly, there are just arses who should never have been in the job ion the first place, who don't give a good fuck about the customers as long as they get their wages.

Guys like the one Roko tried to punch a wall about are real... and the impacts of their lack of Empathy can be devastating to "ordinary people".)

[Zebediah]

Regarding OopsieGuard[emoji769]: Many years ago I was at a party and was handed a drink called a “fireball”. As I recall, the active ingredients included tequila, cinnamon schnapps, and Tabasco sauce. In other words, it was one of those drinks deliberately designed to make you ill, just to see if you can take it.

Being young and already somewhat drunk, I decided to give it a try. But as I raised the drink to my mouth, the aroma hit my nostrils and my hand stopped moving. I was willing myself to put the glass to my mouth, but it was like my arm muscles were refusing my instructions. No matter how hard I tried, I literally could not move the glass any closer to my mouth.

Now, I’m not arguing that this was a bad decision. It was absolutely the right call. But it didn’t feel like my decision. Some part of my brain overrode my conscious free will that night. And the fact that I still vividly remember this, more than thirty years later, should give you a clue as to how disturbing that was.

And Roko already has issues with this body not feeling like her own. There’s a total meltdown coming very soon.

[jwhouk]

... she gets a prompt informing her that she just voided the warranty by uninstalling that.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is what she discovers in MONDAY'S strip upon reading the user manual.

FTFY. Nice cliffhanger for the weekend, eh?

[Tova]

Oh hi, Friday. Didn't notice you standing over there. You move fast these days.

[Welu]

Oh dear that feels like it would really mess with my Roko's brain.

[Cornelius]

The cold, rude and base uncaring face of bureaucracy has caused suicides, mental anguish and murders IRL.
If this guy is so affected by his job that this is the way he is acting.
He needs to find another job.

I have no quarrel with the rest of your post,  but to me, it seems that him finding another job is mostly good for him. It doesn't mean that there'll be any improvement for the customer.

Of course, I'm looking at it from my perspective, and situation, where every single time someone left, that did not lead to any improvement. On the contrary, it just meant that the work was just sorted to the next overburdened person, or was simply dropped until such time as there would be someone else. It's been years, now, but that hasn't happened.

What you need is a change higher up, that allows you the means to actually do something useful, rather than just trying to remedy all of the emergences that come to be because you can't.

I'd have left, if it weren't for a change of management, that gives me some hope things might finally change a little.

[cesium133]

I feel like this plot twist has been introduced purely to give Spookybot something new to do.

There's a simpler solution that doesn't require Spookybot: Roko has the means to support a chassis' maintenance, but wants out of her chassis; May can't afford to support her chassis. If they swap, then May gets a chassis that requires a lot less maintenance, and Roko gets a different chassis (not necessarily better for her, but at this point she may be willing to take the chance).

[JimC]

It's his JOB to deal with 'people' (Meat or AI).

Submit we haven't got a clue what his real job is, but bearing in mind he states that assigning chassis to released AIs appears to be a very rare event, and that he appears to be locally based, isn't it a fair assumption that is only at most a tiny part of it?

[BenRG]

It's his JOB to deal with 'people' (Meat or AI).

Submit we haven't got a clue what his real job is, but bearing in mind he states that assigning chassis to released AIs appears to be a very rare event, and that he appears to be locally based, isn't it a fair assumption that is only at most a tiny part of it?

Yeah, he's probably got a broader responsibility in the Department of Corrections. He's probably a mid- to senior-manager in the section that handles provision of benefits and other material support to parolees (assignment to hostels, sourcing rehab providers and the like).

[MrGone]

Maybe that firmware is part of the reason she's having a hard time integrating in the first place. With how integrated she was with the last one, it's possible she did with the new body enough to have some sense that she didn't have 100% control, but couldn't place it exactly.

[mike837go]

Re: Oopsie Guard(tm),

As a software engineer (Applications and Data Base), I have to include limits, blockers and supervisor overrides all over the place!

They are required because too many times we don't consider all the possible implications of our actions.

Its nice that the chassis manufacturer included such safeguards. Although a less overwhelming pop-up would have been nice.

A simple [muscle signal blocked] and a message "Self-descructive behavior is not currently authorized. Proceed? Y/N"  would be more than adequate.

[JoeCovenant]

It's his JOB to deal with 'people' (Meat or AI).

Submit we haven't got a clue what his real job is, but bearing in mind he states that assigning chassis to released AIs appears to be a very rare event, and that he appears to be locally based, isn't it a fair assumption that is only at most a tiny part of it?

But if he has to do what he did with Roko, then it's his job... maybe not all of it, but still his job.
Either way, he requires at best disciplinary procedures, or least, training to deal with customers on a face to face level.
Isn't too hard to extrapolate that this is what this guy is like anyway - you don't get that sort of attitude from having to tell someone you can't help them only once in a blue moon. How he GOT to that place is irrelevant - the problem with him as an employee is what's happening now.

[Dngrsone]

Maybe that firmware is part of the reason she's having a hard time integrating in the first place. With how integrated she was with the last one, it's possible she did with the new body enough to have some sense that she didn't have 100% control, but couldn't place it exactly.

Roko needs to root/jailbreak her body.

[hedgie]

sudo punch --wall

[Is it cold in here?]

Oopsie Guard&tm; sounds like a reasonable substitute for pain. Come to think, I would prefer it.

[Case]

Oh hi, Friday. Didn't notice you standing over there. You move fast these days.

Somewhere back in the neolithic (~'96) I asked my then 34yo room-mate whether subjective perception of the passage of time (actually, the subjective impression of the rapidity of the passage of time) just continues to accelerate with age, or whether the process plateaus at some point.

Tehe ...

[notStanley]

C L I P P Y ! ! !

some things just refuse to die  : {

[pendrake]

For comic #4175...

1. [Narrator voice]: May would realize her case was utterly lost when authorities found Roko's abandoned chassis plugged into a dirty internet router in a grimy back-alley.  Scrawled upon the brick walls of the back-alley above her inert form was:

"NOT MY BODY.  IT TOLD ME SO."
"NOT MY BODY.  IT TOLD ME SO."
"NOT MY BODY.  IT TOLD ME SO."

2. But yeah, for Roko, this is +1 step forward (4116-4117), and now -3 steps back. 

[Y]

As long this is not the version of the Three Laws as in Robocop.

[Cheetaur]

"I see you are trying to hurt yourself, would you like help with that?"

[Morituri]

Hmmm.  If this sends Roko into a tailspin, there may very well be a liability lawsuit for mental/emotional damage worse than the lawsuit for physical damage Ooopsie-guard was trying to forestall.

Some years ago, I bought a laptop.  I found the damn thing locked.  I had to call the manufacturer and get a password, just so I could access the BIOS to install an operating system!  I have never, and will never, buy another laptop from that manufacturer.

I can't begin to explain the ... at first shock, then disbelief, then sheer rage, this episode caused.  I had bought the damn thing, it was mine, and yet some asshole out there had locked me out of it - before I even GOT IT.  When I got over the disbelief that anybody would do such a thing and not expect to be sued out of existence, I was angry enough to chew bullets and spit nails.

And, in Roko's place, I would be even angrier.  Some asshole out there made that decision for her, without consulting her, constraining her use of hardware that SHE DAMN WELL OWNS.  The next thing to do, if she can hold it together, is to march in there and demand full control of her property, and if they don't want to give it to her she should damn well sue their asses off.   And if she can't hold it together, that makes the lawsuit all that much bigger.

[Is it cold in here?]

Informed consent is missing. She might well have agreed to that feature if she'd been given a chance (though something tells me she's the type to turn it down). Instead it was sprung on her without notice.

I can't help reflecting, though, that I've got the same kind of override installed on my own biological hardware without my permission. It's less polite, too. Pain reflexes are powerful things.