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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)  (Read 4501 times)

JoeCovenant

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #50 on: 07 Jul 2020, 06:05 »


But...

Didn't Spookybot send billions to all layers of charitable causes?

(Either way, looks like thats next level.)
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #51 on: 07 Jul 2020, 09:40 »

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #52 on: 07 Jul 2020, 12:04 »


But...

Didn't Spookybot send billions to all layers of charitable causes?

(Either way, looks like thats next level.)
Can’t send money to a charity that doesn’t exist; also, we have no idea about the distribution - Yay May have biased larger donations towards larger organisations. Or they may have done the opposite and some obscure disease research organisation with two administrators and three researchers now has enough money to buy Stark Industries twice and no idea where to start.
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N.N. Marf

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It was specifically saying capitalism is a broken system.
Capitalism isn't a system, it's a way of looking at society, emphasizing resources as owned by persons. "Capital" just means resources owned by someone. Of course, that's not the end-all way of looking at the world. Socialism, for example, looks at a society, emphasizing interactions between persons (some who maybe own some resources). One problem with the version of capitalism that we have today is that it doesn't place enough emphasis on the person. One problem with the version of socialism that we have today is that it doesn't place enough emphasis on persons that prefers to keep to himself.

physically blowing up something that doesn't physically exist
I'm not good at understanding what a person was thinking, unless he says what he's thinking, so I'd be interested in knowing what he was thinking of blowing up. If I had a sciencey-fantasy cannon and wanted to abolish prisons, I'd probably want shoot down their gates. (If there are no prisons, then there's no "carceral state" to abolish.) Of course, that's quite a violent solution.
(click to show/hide)

Todays episode is basically socialism at its finest, the guy in charge has no idea how money works yet decides it must be a poorly-designed system and not that maybe he himself is a complete idiot that has access to plenty of money but wastes it on stuff like particle cannons so the last couple of episodes have been quite critical in a way I didn't expect do well done to the author for keeping everyone on their toes
See, I agree with you that Landon's a dope. I don't agree with you that that's exemplary socialism. Credit unions are much better examples. Although it's grounded in "capitalism", because it's dealing with things owned by it's members, it's quite socialist, because it's goal is to secure it's members' wealth. One example is that they were mostly unscathed by the 2008 fizzling of the economic foam (it's a better metaphor than "bubble"---that's not important). I think that the general principle that we all could learn from is that we can't disregard the fact that the world consists of persons who own stuff, but that it's more effective for us to work together, so that our actions at least don't harm anyone else.

Didn't Spookybot send billions to all layers of charitable causes?
Now back to what's important (unleashing my imagination on minor details from nonbad fiction):
They said they did that, but they might not be as powerful as some persons might think. We've seen that they have a few instances, and we know they're powerful enough to overtake/meddle with one cybrid (was that word coined here? I've only seen it used here.), and they can zap (or something) a human to sleep. I think it's plausible that only a few instances networked together that way can have that sort of power. I especially doubt their nigh-omniscience. I wonder if maybe they only network with local instances, so that they can take more local cultural references for granted, and that they only have immediate access to the collective power of those local instances. Something like a mesh-network collective intelligence. Each node would have it's distinct personality that is almost identical with each of the one's it networks with, but that almost-identicallity of their personalities makes them think they're the same mind. This could cause them to freely share data/memories with any other instance, which would further strengthen their belief that they are one. Yet, they insist that they are plural, so it's not as though it's just one Yay with one body made of many embodied-cybrid chasses (is that the plural of "chassis"?) If that's the case, Yay would be another good (and quite creepy) example of "socialism" working well. (It's especially creepy because sometimes, I'll wake up from a dream where I'm not me but my close friend, and only realize that I'm me when my "time for work" alarm rings.)
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #54 on: 07 Jul 2020, 14:36 »

Global Moderator Comment I'm getting a bit uncomfortable. Remember to avoid getting personal.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #55 on: 07 Jul 2020, 18:11 »

It's a shame about the howl of frustration, Beeps was probably about to break into song.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #56 on: 07 Jul 2020, 18:22 »


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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #57 on: 07 Jul 2020, 18:25 »

Station has enough money to make a difference but I don't know if he'd be interested.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #58 on: 07 Jul 2020, 20:02 »

How much does Station himself have to pay for his/their own upkeep, tho?

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #59 on: 07 Jul 2020, 20:07 »

Station would have to sell off his shares in the company, I'm not sure if he'd want to do that.

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #60 on: 07 Jul 2020, 21:08 »

As I understand it, the most ideal system[1] is a hybridization of capitalism and socialism called 'regulated capitalism'.[2] America even used to use it until Reaganomics came along[3] and started removing the regulations put in place.[4]

[1]apart from a benevolent dictatorship
[2] not an exact even split, more like 2:1 or 3:1.
[3]though its undermining began during the McCarthy era with bills to "protect democracy"
[4]large amounts of deregulation also occurred during the Clinton years, with smaller continued batches throughout the Bush Jr W Bush and Obama years
It's a shame about the howl of frustration, Beeps was probably about to break into song.

Though, you've got to admire Jeph's ability to visually represent vibration in a single frame through optical illusion(s).
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the silent firefly

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #61 on: 07 Jul 2020, 22:08 »

[1.5]until that benevolent dictator dies
[3.5]and was accelerated by the termination of the Bretton Woods Agreement in 1971.


i prefer to think of the ideal not as a hybrid of capitalism and socialism but as capitalism paired with a sane public policy. it would help everyone across the political spectrum to distinguish between system of govt, economic system, legal system, and public policy. constitutional democracy and markets are clearly the best that humanity has mustered so far, but you shouldn't go profit seeking in the political realm and you shouldn't look to your economic system in questions of ethics. the debate should all be in the public policy realm but we do have fundamental errors to fix in the legal system in the meantime. IMO, first error to tackle: how do we remove the privilege of limited liability incorporation? and yes, i mean the very idea of it as a legal construction.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #62 on: 07 Jul 2020, 22:15 »

Just to recap:

#4301
Landon: I'd like to help, but I don't have any money.

#4302
Beepatrice: How did it go?
Roko: They'd like to help, but they don't have any money.

#4303
Arthur Nelson: How did it go?
Beepatrice: They'd like to help, but they don't have any money.

Presumably, Femto's identity remains steadfast.

P.S. With regards to the political discussion that has sprung up. FYI there's a thread for that.

Thought exercise: Redesign Government

thishasbeenacommunityserviceannouncement
« Last Edit: 07 Jul 2020, 22:21 by Tova »
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #63 on: 07 Jul 2020, 23:15 »

I wonder if Nelson is getting flashbacks to the previous senior of the organisation... before they retired to become a statue?

It's a shame about the howl of frustration, Beeps was probably about to break into song.

I'm increasingly sure that there will be an awkward attempted confession of adoration at some point in Beepatrice's future and Roko will either completely fail to understand the babbling words or be in that most awkward of social positions: Having to tell a good friend  that it's unrequited.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #64 on: 08 Jul 2020, 09:44 »

Either of those are possible, and so is Beeps just mooning around Roko, who remains oblivious, until Yay spills Beeps beans in front of Roko, causing who knows what kind of weirdness (depends on who else is around:  Emily?  Mille?  Winslow?  Or bog help everyone: May?!?)...
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the silent firefly

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #65 on: 08 Jul 2020, 12:41 »

i don't think Beeps has the courage to bring it up, or perhaps even to admit it to herself.


maybe Nelson has a pile of cash hanging around somewhere. he's always looking sharp. unlike the rest of the volunteers, we don't know anything about his side gig.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #66 on: 08 Jul 2020, 15:05 »

He dresses for the job he wants.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #67 on: 08 Jul 2020, 18:34 »

I have a scanner which thinks that everything I copy should be in PDF.  It is a real pain.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #68 on: 08 Jul 2020, 19:20 »

I have a scanner which thinks that everything I copy should be in PDF.  It is a real pain.
Same here. The vendors must be under the impression that we only ever scan documents. I'd rather it just give me whatever its sensors sense in whatever format is as raw as possible---so long as it's an open format that can be translated to a format that's actually useful. (Although I admit that sometimes, that format is PDF. Maybe someday "computer vision" and "natural language processing" will be advanced enough for the scanner to output all the semantical relationships and enough aesthetical data to be able to reproduce the original document printed like the original. I think I recently have too much free time that I'm even able to wonder about that.)
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #69 on: 08 Jul 2020, 19:44 »

Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF?
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #70 on: 08 Jul 2020, 19:53 »

I'd rather it just give me whatever its sensors sense in whatever format is as raw as possible---so long as it's an open format that can be translated to a format that's actually useful.
You'll get some awfully big scan files if everything defaults to uncompressed TIFFs.

My scanner defaults to PDF if you tell it to scan a document, and JPG if you tell it to scan an image. I can't remember off-hand if there are other options; the defaults work pretty well for me. (The software also allows you to select the pages to be included in the PDF, move them around, and so on before it actually creates the final PDF, which is handy from time to time.) It's a lot easier to manage a single multi-page PDF than a bunch of image files - for example if you need to upload a bunch of proofs of identity along with your completed form it's good to be able to chuck it all into one document.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #71 on: 08 Jul 2020, 20:01 »

Betcha it's another 'no.'

Tho considering the weird stuff that comes up (Pizza vis re-entry vehicle) the money and/or resources SHOULD be there.

the silent firefly

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #72 on: 08 Jul 2020, 20:22 »

i bet you're right but it would be nice to see May at least get a donation from Dr. E-C. i get that her suffering is supposed to serve as a cause to rally behind for change, but i've never been a fan of that kind of perspective. it unnecessarily prolongs terrible circumstances for individuals who might actually have a reasonable solution available to them. just ask the Palestinians.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #73 on: 08 Jul 2020, 20:34 »

Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF?


It doesn't say so specifically
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #74 on: 08 Jul 2020, 20:40 »

Betcha it's another 'no.'

Tho considering the weird stuff that comes up (Pizza vis re-entry vehicle) the money and/or resources SHOULD be there.


Just because someone has the money, doesn't mean they want to spend the money.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #75 on: 08 Jul 2020, 21:05 »

Today sets a new record for the number of posts I got through before it dawned on me that you must be talking about a new comic (five).

So, for everyone else like me in the cheap seats - there is a new comic.

I'd like to know what document exchange format people of the future use. Because, like Jeph says, they are indeed like a democracy. I think we're stuck with them for awhlie.
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the silent firefly

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #76 on: 08 Jul 2020, 22:08 »

maybe it's all leading up to Roko embracing the dark side, kissing the ring, and asking Yay to do whatever they need to do to make something happen...
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #77 on: 08 Jul 2020, 22:58 »

Betcha it's another 'no.'

Tho considering the weird stuff that comes up (Pizza vis re-entry vehicle) the money and/or resources SHOULD be there.

Maybe that's what happened to the original document.  Dr EC used one of his pizza delivery re entry  vehicles and it overheated the paper.


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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #78 on: 08 Jul 2020, 23:32 »

Am I the only one here who quite happily uses PDFs for his employer's official documents and scans and has no problem with the format at all?

Anyway, it figures that Dr John would insist on using 'proven technology'... Including putting paper hard copy in a re-entry capsule that was designed to cook a pizza during its flight. I don't know how hot you have to make an oven to cook a pizza during the five minutes or so of re-entry but I'm sure it's hot enough to make paper anoxically incinerate! It's kind of odd that a man who is a blue sky thinker and a proven innovator feels more comfortable with tools that have been around the block a few times. I suppose when you're living with the Alpha phase of technology pretty much 24/7, you'd feel happier with stuff that you know has had time to be debugged!
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #79 on: 08 Jul 2020, 23:33 »

Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF?
I blame hipsters.  :laugh:

Though, it wouldn't surprise me if the company had some with that WhoopsieGuard (TM).
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #80 on: 08 Jul 2020, 23:37 »

Am I the only one here who quite happily uses PDFs for his employer's official documents and scans and has no problem with the format at all?

Anyway, it figures that Dr John would insist on using 'proven technology'... Including putting paper hard copy in a re-entry capsule that was designed to cook a pizza during its flight. I don't know how hot you have to make an oven to cook a pizza during the five minutes or so of re-entry but I'm sure it's hot enough to make paper anoxically incinerate! It's kind of odd that a man who is a blue sky thinker and a proven innovator feels more comfortable with tools that have been around the block a few times. I suppose when you're living with the Alpha phase of technology pretty much 24/7, you'd feel happier with stuff that you know has had time to be debugged!

For me, it's less the format and more the Adobe.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #81 on: 09 Jul 2020, 01:06 »

The ability to print to PDF reduced to need to ever print something, at least for me. And you could pass around something formatted without worrying about macro viruses and passing along identifying information. In universities some professors distributed postscript versions of the coursework, some of which crashed the postscript printer.

I heard some years ago that NASA still use(s/d) Commodore chips in their satellites, and were buying game consoles like the one I had for the chip.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #82 on: 09 Jul 2020, 01:36 »

I prefer PDFs to the days when people used to pass around (or worse, expect you to create) MS Word documents.

On the other hand, I am very aware that the PDF that some software creates is absolute turd (because I once had a job that involved developing software that rendered them).
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #83 on: 09 Jul 2020, 01:57 »

For me the greatest annoyance I have with PDFs (apart from the fact that Acrobat Reader is now basically a huge advert for Adobe's premium PDF services) is the difference in performance. Try to convert an .docx to a .pdf and it comes out as a few dozen kB at most. Physically scan it into PDF format and the resulting file is 1-2MB per page. I'm pretty sure that it is something to do with how a scanner reacts to black-on-white text but it makes uploading scanned files to third parties a nightmare.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #84 on: 09 Jul 2020, 02:48 »

That is because a .docx text document converted to PDF is represented quite compactly as a bunch of text and some commands to select fonts and place it. Whereas a scanned document is an image - maybe an uncompressed one? - with maybe some OCR'd text annotations.

Acrobat Pro (sorry) would probably be able to make it much smaller.

There are probably other programs around that can do something similar.

I should probably point out - sorry again - that compared to Acrobat Pro, Adobe Acrobat Reader does a shit job of rendering PDFs. It's fine for most people's use, but for professional use where you care very much about accurate rendering, it's not at all fine.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #85 on: 09 Jul 2020, 04:31 »

Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF?

It doesn't say so specifically

The original linked comic also doesn't say it in-universe, but Jeph's title says it.  The question now is whether what Jeph says outside the bounding lines of the comic is or is not canon...
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #86 on: 09 Jul 2020, 05:10 »

The main reason why I save files as PDF's is for readability and portability.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #87 on: 09 Jul 2020, 05:30 »

The original linked comic also doesn't say it in-universe, but Jeph's title says it.  The question now is whether what Jeph says outside the bounding lines of the comic is or is not canon...

Honestly, I don't think it's worth putting too much stock on the fact that two one-off jokes that Jeph has made, both apparently motivated by his dislike of PDFs, seem to contradict each other in-universe. It's hard enough for him to keep track of all his minor characters' names*, let alone every little joke he's made in the margins of his comics.

* That came off sounding critical, but I genuinely think that would be difficult to keep track of all these little details.
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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #88 on: 09 Jul 2020, 06:42 »

I don't see the problem with PDFs myself. Is it perfect, hell no. But for ease and portability (not to mention keep size limited), it easily beats other formats.

Word docs are a nightmare to me compared to PDFs.
I do wonder what format Jeph likes then, and wonder if his dislike of PDFs is at least in part due to issues creating PDFs of his comics(?)
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hedgie

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #89 on: 09 Jul 2020, 07:44 »

I have no problem with pdfs at all, at least in their creation.  Then again, I use LaTeX, and everything is perfectly formatted and typeset.  Of course, editing them later is an exercise in endless frustration.
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"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Mr_Rose

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #90 on: 09 Jul 2020, 08:08 »

PDF is a proprietary standard that became popular then became an actual standard but is still largely run by the originating company for their own apps and is thus grossly inefficient and occasionally prone to breaking existing readers when new features are added. But it remains popular because only five people use XPS and no one knows DjVu even exists.
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"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage

sitnspin

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #91 on: 09 Jul 2020, 08:38 »

My only experience with pdf's is as a reader of (primarily rpg) books. I've never actually created one, so I don't know how difficult they are to work with, but as a consumer I have never had any difficulties with them.
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@syleegrrl

hedgie

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #92 on: 09 Jul 2020, 08:49 »

Most of mine are game books, and even better, at least on a Mac, the desktop search has them all OCRed, so if I don't know exactly which splatbook something is in, I can easily find it.  Creating them is easy enough using free software, using varying definitions of "easy".  Editing them, however, is another beast entirely.  I haven't found any non-paid software that does so in an acceptable manner.
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"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

wiserd

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #93 on: 09 Jul 2020, 11:16 »

"PDFs are like democracy." .... mine was corrupted by Russia?
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Potato Farmer

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #94 on: 09 Jul 2020, 18:30 »

Oh dear. A proposition for fully socialized healthcare (for A.I.).

That's going to cause some disturbance.
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #95 on: 09 Jul 2020, 19:15 »

I expect there's going to be complications....

(Wonder if Yay, Newfriend's money will factor into this?)

I love Roko's stunned look at the end. :D

Gus_Smedstad

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #96 on: 09 Jul 2020, 19:43 »

Physically scan it into PDF format and the resulting file is 1-2MB per page.

This is a subject I care about. Mostly because I've had to deal with transmitting scanned documents for real estate, and it's a huge PITA.

Tova's correct. The issue is scanning. Scanners take a photo of the image, and send the photo. Photos are complex, bulky objects. You're sending an image of the word instead of the word.

With scanned documents, you can apply optical character recognition (OCR) to turn that image into text, but usually this does a very bad job. Even if you're using an expensive, professional tool like Acrobat Pro, the program is still pretty uncertain if there's stuff in that image you care about beyond just the text, and the result is a file that's much, much bigger than a Word or properly authored PDF document.

There are free to use web pages that try and fix scanned documents, but again, they don't do a great job. Mainly because the program can never be sure if there's an actual image in there, in addition to the text it can recognize.
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Gus_Smedstad

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #97 on: 09 Jul 2020, 19:56 »

Oh dear. A proposition for fully socialized healthcare (for A.I.).

It seems fairly often that when I'm discussing some issue or another, it turns out that the only real answer is fully socialized healthcare. It's kind of nice to see QC veer into the same territory.
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Potato Farmer

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #98 on: 09 Jul 2020, 20:27 »

It seems fairly often that when I'm discussing some issue or another, it turns out that the only real answer is fully socialized healthcare. It's kind of nice to see QC veer into the same territory.

It appears to be a common occurrence when people are discussing the struggles of modern society. Of course there's always the threat of idealization...
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ANeM

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Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
« Reply #99 on: 09 Jul 2020, 21:03 »

While I'm certain Mae will be thrilled to hear about the progress made towards getting her a better body, I feel she will still be annoyed at the prospect of becoming a major civil rights icon.
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