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Poll

So - how much will be donated to May?

Under $500 (all amounts US)
- 0 (0%)
$500-$1,000
- 2 (4.1%)
$1,001-$5,000
- 9 (18.4%)
$5,001-$10,000
- 9 (18.4%)
$10,001-$50,000
- 8 (16.3%)
$50,001-$100,000
- 0 (0%)
$100,000-$500,000
- 2 (4.1%)
Over $500,000
- 5 (10.2%)
Lots of Canadian Tire money
- 6 (12.2%)
OTHER (specify)
- 1 (2%)
A Billion Samoleans
- 0 (0%)
Sven is Not a Mooch
- 7 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Voting closed: 01 Aug 2020, 18:29


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)  (Read 3670 times)

chris73

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #50 on: 28 Jul 2020, 04:21 »

Let's agree to disagree on that one 😊

Fair enough, sometimes some storylines hit closer to home than others
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #51 on: 28 Jul 2020, 05:50 »

Just for the record, I'm firmly with Faradeh in this case.

I do agree with one thing you said, chris73. The messaging you describe is indeed bad. But I invite you to consider the origin of this messaging, because my reading was quite different, and I can only guess that Fahideh's was as well.

No reading on a story like this one is a one-way interaction. Every reading is a result of an interaction between the text and the reader. When you are angry at your reading, but find that others don't share your reading of the text, it's time to examine your contribution to your own reading.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #52 on: 28 Jul 2020, 06:39 »

I mean, I agree with Chris, there's been a lot of "Martin is never allowed to be mad at women" storylines over the years...
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #53 on: 28 Jul 2020, 08:02 »

I mean, I agree with Chris, there's been a lot of "Martin is never allowed to be mad at women" storylines over the years...

Meh, as somebody who identifies quite a bit with Marten's personality, I don't see that many storyline in which that is the case. Sure, for a long time there was too much acceptance of  Faye's behavior expected, but other than that? FOr example, in the Dora breakup arc, Marten was definitely allowed to be angry including by the other characters.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #54 on: 28 Jul 2020, 09:08 »

I mean, I agree with Chris, there's been a lot of "Martin is never allowed to be mad at women" storylines over the years...

Meh, as somebody who identifies quite a bit with Marten's personality

Meh

Checks out.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #55 on: 28 Jul 2020, 09:45 »

Quote
I assume you mean this strip? I never interpreted that as 'Marten is not allowed to be angry', but more as 'you cannot complain that life is passing you by when you do not make an effort to make things happen'.

(Thanks for that)

In this instance Marten was justified in being angry in that he did everything right and he still got shafted. He left messages for her, didn't stalk her or make it weird and got nothing and then when she decided she wanted to see him the night before she left Marten did the right thing by not allowing himself to get even more hurt then he already was.

Fayes response to all this is to call him an asshole. Yeah good one Faye, Padma ghosts him and then you rip on him as well but its ok because shes telling him what he needs to hear...no what he needed was some support, someone to tell him yeah she was a b**ch and its not your fault but instead because a girl wanted to see him Marten should have dropped everything and gone rushing over

No, this was a bad storyline with bad messaging
Did we read the same strip? I remember Padma telling Marten she was leaving in a couple of weeks, and his response was to ghost HER.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #56 on: 28 Jul 2020, 12:06 »

I was really expecting May's internet connection to crap out before she could load the website, or her software to bluescreen on her.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #57 on: 28 Jul 2020, 13:13 »

Did we read the same strip? I remember Padma telling Marten she was leaving in a couple of weeks, and his response was to ghost HER.

You beat me to it. Faye pointed out to Marten what he couldn't see himself: Padma was pushing him away so she wouldn't be as attached, thus leading to more pain when she inevitably had to leave. Yes, she handled it badly, but then when she asked to see him one more time, Marten simply acted like a six-year-old trying to get revenge on a sibling and gave up his chance to end it on a good note. In conclusion: They both did the wrong thing at first, but Marten missed an easy chance to redeem himself, while Padma did not.

In response to the "not allowed to be angry at girls" message: That's not a case of Jeph trying to tell us something about life, that's a case of good character development. In every situation where Marten has a chance to be rightfully angry, he has always tended to try to defuse the conflict rather than escalate it (excepting his two breakups). When he yelled at Dora for watching his porn, she miserably failed at apologizing--rather than a sincere, heartfelt apology, she first tried to make it "not a big deal," then said she was sorry, and when Marten wouldn't accept it, she pinned the blame on him rather than herself. That isn't Marten's fault for getting angry, it's Dora's for not knowing how to say sorry and de-escalate.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #58 on: 28 Jul 2020, 13:15 »

The wonderful thing about WebMarvel is that you can make web pages without knowing HTML.

The horrid thing about WebMarvel is that people are making web pages without knowing HTML.

Yes, a macaque can make web pages. And Marigold knows that she could have done better, even as a beginner.
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Gnabberwocky

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #59 on: 28 Jul 2020, 13:20 »

The wonderful thing about WebMarvel is that you can make web pages without knowing HTML.

The horrid thing about WebMarvel is that people are making web pages without knowing HTML.

Yes, a macaque can make web pages. And Marigold knows that she could have done better, even as a beginner.

Isn't it interesting how when it comes to learning talents (in QC if not necessarily real life), humans can outperform AIs? Beeps had the entire internet at her fingertips and was working with Roko, but Marigold still thinks she could have done better.

Then again, Beeps coded the whole thing in, like, a day, so that's impressive in and of itself.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #60 on: 28 Jul 2020, 15:00 »

Kindy scary that the first two names I dreamed up for the web-making GUI were already taken.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #62 on: 28 Jul 2020, 15:37 »

Isn't it interesting how when it comes to learning talents (in QC if not necessarily real life), humans can outperform AIs? Beeps had the entire internet at her fingertips and was working with Roko, but Marigold still thinks she could have done better.

Then again, Beeps coded the whole thing in, like, a day, so that's impressive in and of itself.

Did Beeps write the fundraising page herself? I figured she just started a campaign on the QC version of GoFundMe.
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chris73

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #63 on: 28 Jul 2020, 17:28 »

Quote
Did we read the same strip? I remember Padma telling Marten she was leaving in a couple of weeks, and his response was to ghost HER.

Read from  2073 to 2079, 2091, 2093 to 2093, 2098 to 2102 to show that Marten didn't do the ghosting
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #64 on: 28 Jul 2020, 17:33 »

Beat me to it. I was just doing an archive dive trying to find the relevant strips.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #65 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:19 »

As far as I’m concerned, neither Marten nor Padma handled that situation very well.

In other words, they acted like humans with very human emotions and flaws. That’s a hanging offense in these parts, mister.
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chris73

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #66 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:28 »

Quote

When you are angry at your reading, but find that others don't share your reading of the text, it's time to examine your contribution to your own reading.

I disagree, being angry at something nor does being the only one that thinks it doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong  (others agree by the way)

Meanwhile the negative treatment of Marten is still on going, like how Bubbles and Marten got acquainted in 3058 and compare that to how she interacts with everyone else (also 3338)  or how about Renee and Clare in 3508 (yes I understand the why but its still Marten being the strips punching bag)
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chris73

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #67 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:30 »

Quote
In other words, they acted like humans with very human emotions and flaws. That’s a hanging offense in these parts, mister.

My problem wasn't with Padma or Marten but how Faye treated Marten after, she was verbally abusive but its ok because its Marten
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #68 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:33 »

New comic!

Oh, May. I hope you just went in for an awkward hug.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #69 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:36 »

Quote
In other words, they acted like humans with very human emotions and flaws. That’s a hanging offense in these parts, mister.
My problem wasn't with Padma or Marten but how Faye treated Marten after, she was verbally abusive but its ok because its Marten

With Faye, it's a very old adage.

"Hurt people hurt people."

And I think Marten knew that in his interactions with Faye after, oh, I'd say, maybe, strip 500? or maybe 509?
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #70 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:39 »

Alright I've read a bit of this thread now, and I'm just gonna wait over here for when y'all are finally ready for the conversation about how and why the abuses against Pintsize are okay, i.e. how and where you draw the lines of 'allowable' transgressions.

i'ma be waiting a long time ;)

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #71 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:40 »

As far as I’m concerned, neither Marten nor Padma handled that situation very well.

Yes, indeed.

What is the point of this conversation? This particular strip was brought up as an example of how 'Marten is not allowed to be angry.' I don't see anything in this conversation as supporting that assertion. The question of who ghosted whom doesn't get us any closer. The fact is, neither of them handled the situation particularly adeptly, and that is just the way things often go when relationship troubles and intense emotions are at play.

But to drag the conversation back to the comment that started it all - what does 'Marten is not allowed to be angry' even mean outside of a parent/child or employer/employee type relationship? I do get that Marten is often passive, but simply saying he's not allowed to be angry buys into his passivity in a way that I find to be deeply confusing. He's a grown-up, and he's perfectly able to get angry whenever he feels like it. In fact, let's look back at that comic. That wasn't an example of him being 'not allowed' to be angry (again - whatever that means). All that happened was that Faye confronted him with the reality of how he was acting out, and Marten was in fact mature enough, in spite of being angry, to recognise the truth of what Faye was saying to him. Which is to his credit, I must say.

Let's face it. Marten's problem is not that he doesn't get angry. His problem is that he gets angry when he should get assertive. And I think you'll find that's a common thread through his previous relationships (including, dare I say, his relationship with his own mother).

Claire seems to have been good for him, but it's unclear whether he's magically become more assertive or if the issues are still there but haven't been triggered recently because he's so content with the current state of affairs. And I wouldn't be surprised if we never learn the answer to that one.

Warning - while you were typing, a bunch of posts and new comic have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Eh. *sigh*  fine.

My problem wasn't with Padma or Marten but how Faye treated Marten after, she was verbally abusive but its ok because its Marten

You say abusive, I say tough love. They are close friends and they can speak truth to each other. That's love, not abuse. Nothing she said was untrue or undeserved, and Marten recognised it.

I'm just going to let the other comments through to keeper for now, I may come back to them if I feel like it.

Warning - while you were typing -

POSTING NOW
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Tova

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #72 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:42 »

Alright I've read a bit of this thread now, and I'm just gonna wait over here for when y'all are finally ready for the conversation about how and why the abuses against Pintsize are okay, i.e. how and where you draw the lines of 'allowable' transgressions.

i'ma be waiting a long time ;)

Yeah, what is perceived as slapstick and what is perceived as abuse is definitely in the eye of the observer.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #73 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:43 »

I'm bowing out of the conversation now, since the comics are open to personal interpretation, and I don't want it to evolve into "my opinion is correct, and yours is wrong!" That's how (flame)wars get started.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #74 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:47 »

New comic!

Oh, May. I hope you just went in for an awkward hug.

I might believe that with any other character (except Pintsize, of course), but coming from May, I'm pretty sure it was intentional.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #75 on: 28 Jul 2020, 18:50 »

I'm still a little curious about precisely what 'Marten is not allowed to be angry' means - particularly whether it is anger directed at the characters or at Jeph. Otherwise, I'm definitely not getting bogged down into the minutiae who was 'right' and who was 'wrong' in various QC character interactions.

Oh maybe I should check the comic out.

...

May is reacting the way we all expected her to, I think. I wonder how this experience will change May (beyond the obvious).
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #76 on: 28 Jul 2020, 19:09 »

New comic!

Oh, May. I hope you just went in for an awkward hug.

BOOOBS.

Yeah, that was cute.

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #77 on: 28 Jul 2020, 19:14 »

Marigold has clearly learned something from watching Faye calm people down.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #78 on: 28 Jul 2020, 19:17 »

I could've sworn that Marigold used her boobs as a narcotic before?
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #79 on: 28 Jul 2020, 19:30 »

So I thought I'd glance at one of these other examples.

like how Bubbles and Marten got acquainted in 3058 and compare that to how she interacts with everyone else (also 3338)

How she interacts with everyone else... you mean like in 3064 and 3065?

She was obviously deeply unhappy in that situation, there's not much more to say about that. It had nothing to do with Marten. And in 3338, he was just being timid (just as Claire says in panel one).
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #80 on: 28 Jul 2020, 19:39 »

CALLED IT.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #81 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:03 »

I could've sworn that Marigold used her boobs as a narcotic before?
4107?
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #82 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:12 »

Yay for hugs and generosity! I'm hoping that May gets enough to buy that fighter jet chassis she originally went to AI jail for.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #83 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:19 »

I could've sworn that Marigold used her boobs as a narcotic before?
4107?


Bingo! Thank you :)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #84 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:26 »

Yay for hugs and generosity! I'm hoping that May gets enough to buy that fighter jet chassis she originally went to AI jail for.

Noooooo. A fighter jet is likely HUGELY more than a usual body.

Plus I can see donators going "She used the money for WHAT?"

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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #85 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:29 »

I could've sworn that Marigold used her boobs as a narcotic before?
4107?

And that is a highly relevant callback.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #86 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:33 »

what is perceived as slapstick and what is perceived as abuse is definitely in the eye of the observer.
Slapstick is a piece of literature by Kurt Vonnegut (purportedly funny) corporal abuse.
like how Bubbles and Marten got acquainted in 3058 and compare that to how she interacts with everyone else (also 3338)
you mean like in 3064 and 3065?
In Bubbles' defense, "hup ermf" is a terrible opening line.

I'm bowing out of the conversation now, since the comics are open to personal interpretation, and I don't want it to evolve into "my opinion is correct, and yours is wrong!" That's how (flame)wars get started.
Your opinion about there being only one possible right opinion is wrong. Good heated arguments breed mutual understanding.

Hi ho.

Faye confronted him with the reality of how he was acting out, and Marten was in fact mature enough, in spite of being angry, to recognise the truth of what Faye was saying to him.
Faye told Marten that Marten should have accepted Padma's invitation, despite Padma pushing Marten away. I opine that Marten's mistake was not telling Padma why Marten would rather not meet with Padma.

That isn't Marten's fault for getting angry, it's Dora's for not knowing how to say sorry and de-escalate.
Dora invaded Marten's privacy. That's a contemptible act. An act that Marten could have precluded by encrypting his data. Was Marten's anger appropriate?
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #87 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:40 »

Brassier, crying towel, it's such a fine line, really.

Even if May doesn't have any tear ducts.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #88 on: 28 Jul 2020, 20:46 »

Quote
She was obviously deeply unhappy in that situation, there's not much more to say about that. It had nothing to do with Marten. And in 3338, he was just being timid (just as Claire says in panel one).

No I'm talking first meeting. look at panels 5 & 6 in 3058 and do you really think its Martens fault for being "timid" in 3338

Ok try this then, change Martens gender to female and change Faye, Bubble, Tai and Dora to male then look at their interactions again and tell me its all ok
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #89 on: 28 Jul 2020, 21:15 »

Dora invaded Marten's privacy. That's a contemptible act. An act that Marten could have precluded by encrypting his data. Was Marten's anger appropriate?

I think it was. Marten actually addresses that in panel three of this comic. It's not about the actual subject of the argument, it's about the fact that Dora breached his trust. He shouldn't have had to encrypt anything, because he told Dora not to look, but she did anyway, and that's what led to the breakup.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #90 on: 28 Jul 2020, 21:17 »

On a note completely unrelated to the discourse going on, I'm currently working on a couple of sketches for the more ridiculous poll options from last week, jetski transformer May. I'm sure she'd be on board with it solely because the vehicle configuration moves ass-backwards in relation to her humanoid configuration. (I couldn't work out how to satisfactorily get the back portion of the thing to become legs.)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #91 on: 28 Jul 2020, 21:42 »

Quote
I think it was. Marten actually addresses that in panel three of this comic. It's not about the actual subject of the argument, it's about the fact that Dora breached his trust. He shouldn't have had to encrypt anything, because he told Dora not to look, but she did anyway, and that's what led to the breakup.

The good thing that came out of this was that Dora realized her problem early on and did the right thing so good on her for that
« Last Edit: 28 Jul 2020, 21:50 by chris73 »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #92 on: 28 Jul 2020, 21:48 »

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She was obviously deeply unhappy in that situation, there's not much more to say about that. It had nothing to do with Marten. And in 3338, he was just being timid (just as Claire says in panel one).

No I'm talking first meeting. look at panels 5 & 6 in 3058 and do you really think its Martens fault for being "timid" in 3338

Ok try this then, change Martens gender to female and change Faye, Bubble, Tai and Dora to male then look at their interactions again and tell me its all ok

Okay sure. Fine. As you wish.

They are all ok.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #93 on: 28 Jul 2020, 22:04 »

I could've sworn that Marigold used her boobs as a narcotic before?

Boobs are the best narcotic.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #94 on: 28 Jul 2020, 22:45 »

new guess, number might end closer to 696,969 because my same theory of rando going in for the chuckles as much that for the help. Or slighty over because some other rando having the same idea at the same time.

Still to much for May to deal right now. Is hard to believe people would help you that much.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #95 on: 28 Jul 2020, 22:55 »

New comic!

Oh, May. I hope you just went in for an awkward hug.

I might believe that with any other character (except Pintsize, of course), but coming from May, I'm pretty sure it was intentional.

Intentional, but not sexual. May's emotional but this isn't like any other time with her and seems pure otherwise Marigold wouldn't have allowed her to do it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #96 on: 28 Jul 2020, 23:00 »

Yes, May; you have friends who love you. I know that's a shock but there you go!

S'okay kid. Just hang onto Marigold until your brain stops spinning enough that you can stand up again.

"I want to cry but I don't have tear ducts!" It kind of says it all, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: 28 Jul 2020, 23:10 by BenRG »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #97 on: 28 Jul 2020, 23:12 »

Alright I've read a bit of this thread now, and I'm just gonna wait over here for when y'all are finally ready for the conversation about how and why the abuses against Pintsize are okay, i.e. how and where you draw the lines of 'allowable' transgressions.

i'ma be waiting a long time ;)

It would be OK for a Looney Tunes character but I get troubled by those incidents when I remember that he's a person. There have been fewer lately as Jeph has added depth to the AIs.

What the latest comic reminded me of is "Snot on my shirt. That's what friends are for." May is doing something comparable to crying on a shoulder. Marigold is consenting freely.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #98 on: 29 Jul 2020, 00:05 »

Well, with regards to slapstick, I think it's worth bearing in mind that this is now a different comic than it started out as. Some of the people I introduced to the comic, loved different parts of the comic's run, but stopped reading when they met either the newer or the earlier comics, as to them, that felt like an entirely different comic. Which, you know, with the art style and focus changing, it kind of is, really.

Quote
She was obviously deeply unhappy in that situation, there's not much more to say about that. It had nothing to do with Marten. And in 3338, he was just being timid (just as Claire says in panel one).

No I'm talking first meeting. look at panels 5 & 6 in 3058 and do you really think its Martens fault for being "timid" in 3338

Ok try this then, change Martens gender to female and change Faye, Bubble, Tai and Dora to male then look at their interactions again and tell me its all ok

The problem between 3058 en 3338 is that in between there's a perfectly normal conversation. If it were just 3058 and 3338, I'd say you're right, that it's not Marten's fault. Either way, regardless of gender, Bubbles' behaviour in 3058 was less than positive - and I do know that it was a stressful moment for her, but even so, if anyone came to my door like that, they'd have to force their way in.
3338 feels a bit  difficult for me, as, as far as I can find, Marten feeling intimidated is really just established in 3058, and seems largely over in the following conversation. I suppose it's just another example of the rule of funny taking precedence over consistent story telling. Going by Jeph's comment, I'd say that the gag of the threatening style of the 'I come in peace'-message was the main idea for the strip.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4316-4320 (27-31 July 2020)
« Reply #99 on: 29 Jul 2020, 00:54 »

Boobs are the best narcotic.

Fixed that for you ;-)


AIs hugging people that way have an advantage over humans hugging AIs. Go ask Faye.
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