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Poll

What age range were you in when you were in your first serious relationship?

14 to 19
- 19 (29.2%)
20 to 24
- 19 (29.2%)
25 to 29
- 7 (10.8%)
30 to 34
- 3 (4.6%)
35 to 39
- 1 (1.5%)
40 to 44
- 0 (0%)
45 to 49
- 0 (0%)
50 to 54
- 0 (0%)
55 to 60
- 0 (0%)
a different age range
- 0 (0%)
not interested
- 3 (4.6%)
none yet
- 8 (12.3%)
Sven is not a mooch
- 5 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 65


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)  (Read 5168 times)

eschaton

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #100 on: 19 Aug 2020, 04:25 »

if you go to the quiet and semi-secret places where men actually discuss their attractions and their fantasies, if you look at what men actually do in their lives, this statement doesn't hold water. for what rather seems to be the majority of men, this is not how it works, despite the propaganda lines too many of them too-often spout when they fear loss of status. The ideas put forth in this statement, that fantasies resolve confusion, are inadequate to explain reality.

I mean, I get what you're saying here.  My comment about fantasy was a bit off base, because what people have an erotic fantasy about and what people are attracted to in real life are different.

However his "not even sure how to tell if you are attracted to a guy" thing in the first panel does not sound like something a guy who has ever questioned his sexuality would say.

I mean, I'm straight, more or less.  I'm 41, married, never had any sort of sexual activity with a guy.  But when I was younger I'd very occasionally see guys I was attracted to (like maybe once a year).  Usually it was very "fem" guys who I saw from a long distance away, and started checking out thinking they were women, and then realized my mistake.  Since it was a different, much more homophobic time, it made me feel all weird and confused at the time.  But by the time I reached Clinton's age I realized that for every 1 guy that happened with, there were like 100+ women I checked out on the street.  Furthermore, it was hard enough for me as a socially awkward geeky guy to get the interest of women (I didn't seriously date anyone till I was 23).  The chances of ever being in a situation to do something with a guy I actually was attracted to were thus close to nil, so I was comfortable with saying I'm straight, for all intents and purposes. 

I think everyone around my age who is a straight guy had something like this in their back history.  Lots of my male friends growing had some sort of homoerotic young adolescent experience (like a mutual j/o session) but they seemed to be blase about it when thinking back at 18 or 22.  A couple like made out with dudes on a dare or something similar.  There were tons of homoerotic jokes  and the like.  Looking back, the ones who didn't  talk about or participate in this stuff were the ones who actually ended up gay...probably because they were afraid of being outed. 

Anyway, maybe it's different now with younger dudes, since society is not as homophobic, and passing same-sex attraction or activity in adolescence doesn't lead to years of navel gazing until you "figure out" your sexual identity.  But Jeph is around my age, and it's never entirely clear when QC is supposed to be set.

As an aside, I have been holding out hope that Clinton, Elliot, and Brun would form a stable triad.   if it's just Clinton/Elliot and then something happens between Brun and the robot lady Millie, it will be up to three lesbian relationships, one gay male relationship, one arguably queer relationship (Martin and Claire - trans people are queer even in a heterosexual relationship correct?), and then Dale/Marigold who we seldom see any longer.  We need some poly representation. 
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #101 on: 19 Aug 2020, 04:31 »

Or maybe he's just a polite young man who has yet to have any sort of long-enough term romantic relationship for sex to really be on his radar and he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.
That's not how males work. Sex is definitely on your radar long, long before relationships are a possibility or sex is at all likely.

Next time you feel the urge to assert simple 'truths' about the inner experiences of half the species?

Don't.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #102 on: 19 Aug 2020, 05:03 »

I can't really justify it, but on further reflection the phrasing of panel one has put idea of Clinton being Biromantic and whatever the appropriate term for a greysexual who hasn't quite figured that out about themselves.
I'd love to see Jeph go down the path of having a character whose romantic orientation and sexual orientation don't fully match up. And exploring how that affects dating & relationships for them etc... For example pan/bi-romantic and heterosexual (or homosexual or asexual). Or another combination. It could work well with a polyamory storyline too.

From a meta perspective - given that this is something we haven't seen in the comic yet and that Jeph is very big on inclusion - I think there's a decent chance that this is where this is leading. *Gets out my probably-panromantic-and-grey-heterosexual flag to wave vigorously*

(And hopefully it would still lead for happiness for Elliot  #TeamElliot)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #103 on: 19 Aug 2020, 05:18 »

Jeph does seem to like this whole 'the one exception' trope in his romantic writing. We've seen it literally almost every time that a major cast member gets into a long-term relationship since the Dorapocalypse. These examples come to mind:
  • Marten is basically hetero and very, very mildly bicurious yet he has fallen head-over-heels with Claire without even a blink of hesitation other than a concern about professional ethics; indeed his reaction to her was 'You're beautiful';
  • Faye has never shown the slightest bisexual interest before meeting Bubbles (who, let's not be squeamish about it, isn't even her species);
  • May and Sven are clearly in a mutual orbit despite the fact neither of them have shown the slightest interest in anything beyond sex before;
  • Now Clinton, who has never shown even the slightest bi tendencies, is clearly very, very attracted to Elliot on a physical level as well as clearly having a strong emotional rapport.
My point? I think that Jeph's view is that your one true partner is quite frequently the last person you'd expect and actually quite different from your 'type'. Although, arguably, Marten/Claire diverges from that last part as Claire is, in personality terms, quite similar to Faye, Dora and Padma (assertive, strong-willed but with strong insecurities). In any case, this viewpoint is clearly being reflected in a lot of his characters' most serious romantic relationships: It is the interpersonal match between those two individuals that matters, not any pre-existing labels about romantic and sexual attraction.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #104 on: 19 Aug 2020, 05:31 »

Jeph does seem to like this whole 'the one exception' trope in his romantic writing. We've seen it literally almost every time that a major cast member gets into a long-term relationship since the Dorapocalypse. These examples come to mind:
  • Marten is basically hetero and very, very mildly bicurious yet he has fallen head-over-heels with Claire without even a blink of hesitation other than a concern about professional ethics; indeed his reaction to her was 'You're beautiful';
  • Faye has never shown the slightest bisexual interest before meeting Bubbles (who, let's not be squeamish about it, isn't even her species);
  • May and Sven are clearly in a mutual orbit despite the fact neither of them have shown the slightest interest in anything beyond sex before;
  • Now Clinton, who has never shown even the slightest bi tendencies, is clearly very, very attracted to Elliot on a physical level as well as clearly having a strong emotional rapport.
My point? I think that Jeph's view is that your one true partner is quite frequently the last person you'd expect and actually quite different from your 'type'. Although, arguably, Marten/Claire diverges from that last part as Claire is, in personality terms, quite similar to Faye, Dora and Padma (assertive, strong-willed but with strong insecurities). In any case, this viewpoint is clearly being reflected in a lot of his characters' most serious romantic relationships: It is the interpersonal match between those two individuals that matters, not any pre-existing labels about romantic and sexual attraction.

Not much to debate there.

I think (my) concern (problem is too strong a word) is that these "exceptions" are all occurring within a very small group of people.
Like... "Hmmm... which two characters can I use to squeeze into a relationship/situation which might be deemed something other than what wider society views as "normal", today...?"

And unfortunately, using these things in such a way as Ben describes above -  makes them almost smack of tokenism...
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #105 on: 19 Aug 2020, 05:48 »

Jeph does seem to like this whole 'the one exception' trope in his romantic writing. We've seen it literally almost every time that a major cast member gets into a long-term relationship since the Dorapocalypse. These examples come to mind:
  • Marten is basically hetero and very, very mildly bicurious yet he has fallen head-over-heels with Claire without even a blink of hesitation other than a concern about professional ethics; indeed his reaction to her was 'You're beautiful';
  • Faye has never shown the slightest bisexual interest before meeting Bubbles (who, let's not be squeamish about it, isn't even her species);
  • May and Sven are clearly in a mutual orbit despite the fact neither of them have shown the slightest interest in anything beyond sex before;
  • Now Clinton, who has never shown even the slightest bi tendencies, is clearly very, very attracted to Elliot on a physical level as well as clearly having a strong emotional rapport.
My point? I think that Jeph's view is that your one true partner is quite frequently the last person you'd expect and actually quite different from your 'type'. Although, arguably, Marten/Claire diverges from that last part as Claire is, in personality terms, quite similar to Faye, Dora and Padma (assertive, strong-willed but with strong insecurities). In any case, this viewpoint is clearly being reflected in a lot of his characters' most serious romantic relationships: It is the interpersonal match between those two individuals that matters, not any pre-existing labels about romantic and sexual attraction.

Not much to debate there.

I think (my) concern (problem is too strong a word) is that these "exceptions" are all occurring within a very small group of people.
Like... "Hmmm... which two characters can I use to squeeze into a relationship/situation which might be deemed something other than what wider society views as "normal", today...?"

And unfortunately, using these things in such a way as Ben describes above -  makes them almost smack of tokenism...

In fairness however, if most of your social circle is LGBT, and you are not, you're probably much more liable to be open to the possibilities than if everyone you know is cis/hetero and repressed as all hell. 
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ihaveavoice

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #106 on: 19 Aug 2020, 06:19 »

Quick note that being attracted to Claire does nothing to alter Marten's sexuality. He's no less hetero for falling for a trans woman.

And the word tokenism gets thrown around quite a bit when it comes to representation, but what it actually means is doing no more than the bare minimum to look like you're including representation of some group - making only a token effort to show some diversity - and then patting yourself on the back for your inclusivity. Jeph has been writing a continuous narrative with fleshed out characters that happen to often be LGBT. In no way is he engaging in tokenism by showing us the inner worlds and slow burn romantic entanglements of these imaginary people.

I would also like to point out that a) a webcomic has no obligation to stick to some real world estimate of the average percentage of gay or bi people in the general population when it comes to the makeup of its cast - QC could have literally no straight characters if that's what its writer wanted to do, and nothing would be off or (lol) questionable about that; and b) as others have pointed out, it isn't even unrealistic in real life for a certain friend group and related circles to be majority LGBT, especially when their crowd is notably accepting and inclusive in other ways. It isn't even a universal reader experience to feel that the amount of LGBT representation in the comic is somehow odd, or even a universal straight-reader-with-mostly-straight-friends experience to feel that way. I speak as one of the latter who would legit never have thought of it if I hadn't checked out these forums and seen it keep coming up.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #107 on: 19 Aug 2020, 06:34 »

Jeph does seem to like this whole 'the one exception' trope in his romantic writing. We've seen it literally almost every time that a major cast member gets into a long-term relationship since the Dorapocalypse. These examples come to mind:
  • Marten is basically hetero and very, very mildly bicurious yet he has fallen head-over-heels with Claire without even a blink of hesitation other than a concern about professional ethics; indeed his reaction to her was 'You're beautiful';
  • Faye has never shown the slightest bisexual interest before meeting Bubbles (who, let's not be squeamish about it, isn't even her species);
  • May and Sven are clearly in a mutual orbit despite the fact neither of them have shown the slightest interest in anything beyond sex before;
  • Now Clinton, who has never shown even the slightest bi tendencies, is clearly very, very attracted to Elliot on a physical level as well as clearly having a strong emotional rapport.
My point? I think that Jeph's view is that your one true partner is quite frequently the last person you'd expect and actually quite different from your 'type'. Although, arguably, Marten/Claire diverges from that last part as Claire is, in personality terms, quite similar to Faye, Dora and Padma (assertive, strong-willed but with strong insecurities). In any case, this viewpoint is clearly being reflected in a lot of his characters' most serious romantic relationships: It is the interpersonal match between those two individuals that matters, not any pre-existing labels about romantic and sexual attraction.

Not much to debate there.

I think (my) concern (problem is too strong a word) is that these "exceptions" are all occurring within a very small group of people.
Like... "Hmmm... which two characters can I use to squeeze into a relationship/situation which might be deemed something other than what wider society views as "normal", today...?"

And unfortunately, using these things in such a way as Ben describes above -  makes them almost smack of tokenism...

In fairness however, if most of your social circle is LGBT, and you are not, you're probably much more liable to be open to the possibilities than if everyone you know is cis/hetero and repressed as all hell.

Oh, I totally get that... (like, totally... it's why I find it a bit jarring all these things are happening in so small a community of main characters).

The 'concern' is that these tings all seem to be coming out of the main cast who, up until the point it occurs, have shown little/no inkling of any LGBT(AI) tendencies.

I lived most of my youth/early adult life surrounded by gay men and women (Actors, dahling, dontcha know?)  :)  ) and yes, was approached by quite a few guys - I found it flattering, but it was nothing I would be remotely interested in. I loved these guys, but had no interest in them sexually.  I guess MY experience of the scene is that there was little to no ambiguity to if people were gay, straight or bi... but then, I can't say I ever saw anyone 'suddenly realise' their orientation either.

Different strokes, I guess. (No pun intended!)  :)
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eschaton

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #108 on: 19 Aug 2020, 07:31 »

Quick note that being attracted to Claire does nothing to alter Marten's sexuality. He's no less hetero for falling for a trans woman.

Again, I'm not up on my modern terminology, but my understanding is that trans people are by definition under the queer umbrella.  Thus Martin/Claire is a queer relationship even though Martin himself might not be queer.

Regardless, sexuality - much like gender identity - is a matter of self-identification.  I don't think we can definitively say he self-identifies as being hetero because he's never said anything on the matter whatsoever.  He gets to choose his own labels - we do not. 

I do find the long-term drift of the comic to be more and more LGBT-focused to be interesting though.  It started as a pretty damn straight/cis cast, other than Dora's bisexuality, which was at first merely theoretical and joked about.  Oh, and I suppose Pintsize had that "gay relationship" near the beginning of the comic which was never remarked upon again (weird how he's only a letch to human females). 
« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2020, 07:58 by eschaton »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #109 on: 19 Aug 2020, 07:34 »

Quick note that being attracted to Claire does nothing to alter Marten's sexuality. He's no less hetero for falling for a trans woman.

Again, I'm not up on my modern terminology, but my understanding is that trans people are by definition under the queer umbrella.  Thus Martin/Claire is a queer relationship even though Martin himself might not be queer.

That depends. Does a relationship between, say, a bi guy and a bi girl count as "queer" just based on them being bi?
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #110 on: 19 Aug 2020, 07:36 »

... he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.

Do people really do this? My fantasies get way ahead of me. That's what they're FOR.

I want to see Clinton go to the Horrible Revelation for a thoughtful beer and get some relationship advice from Jimbo.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #111 on: 19 Aug 2020, 07:49 »

:) :) :)

look at all these different perspectives. As a longtime lurker that's definitely been one of the benefits of reading both this comic and this forum. It's expanded my worldview and shown me so, so many perspectives and experiences! The conclusion of which has generally been--just because it's something I haven't experienced before doesn't mean it doesn't exist <3

Everyone is gonna project onto the comic because that's how reading works, and when that projection doesn't quite fit, it makes sense peeps would feel some dissonance. Recognizing that and distancing a bit can alleviate some of that dissonance.

I adore this storyline and admit part of it is that my own projection is fitting in well atm lol. I also just love the growth we've seen in Clinton. Longform stories like this you can really get attached to characters <3 <3 <3 (It's been hitting me hard lately JUST HOW LONG I've been reading this comic daily. That's a big chunk of life!!!)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #112 on: 19 Aug 2020, 07:51 »

... he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.

Do people really do this? My fantasies get way ahead of me. That's what they're FOR.

I want to see Clinton go to the Horrible Revelation for a thoughtful beer and get some relationship advice from Jimbo.

Then completely ignore it as is right & proper because Jimbo.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #113 on: 19 Aug 2020, 08:09 »

Suggested poll topic:

Who should Clinton go to for relationship advice?

(He seems to have ended up at Claire's by automatic pilot.)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #114 on: 19 Aug 2020, 08:34 »

I am in a happy, settled same-sex relationship. She is my second girlfriend. I'm 41. I didn't "find" my sexuality at a later age, I found the confidence to finally explore it after years of mental illness (PTSD, etc. etc. etc.) stood in the way of that. Everyone has a different story.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #115 on: 19 Aug 2020, 08:38 »

:) :) :)

look at all these different perspectives. As a longtime lurker that's definitely been one of the benefits of reading both this comic and this forum. It's expanded my worldview and shown me so, so many perspectives and experiences! The conclusion of which has generally been--just because it's something I haven't experienced before doesn't mean it doesn't exist <3


Seconded. I used to be so ignorant of some issues, and naÔve in other areas, since I'm still pretty young. This comic and forum have given me an interesting perspective on how the world is, and how different people live their life. It's so interesting!
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #116 on: 19 Aug 2020, 08:41 »

Quick note that being attracted to Claire does nothing to alter Marten's sexuality. He's no less hetero for falling for a trans woman.

Again, I'm not up on my modern terminology, but my understanding is that trans people are by definition under the queer umbrella.  Thus Martin/Claire is a queer relationship even though Martin himself might not be queer.

That depends. Does a relationship between, say, a bi guy and a bi girl count as "queer" just based on them being bi?

In my experience, some lgt folk are pretty vocal, not to say acerbic, about it not counting.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #117 on: 19 Aug 2020, 10:59 »

They have every right to their opinion. They have no right to be an asshole about it.

Please do not take their behaviour as representative of how inclusive queer folk are generally.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #118 on: 19 Aug 2020, 11:58 »

Again, I'm not up on my modern terminology, but my understanding is that trans people are by definition under the queer umbrella.  Thus Martin/Claire is a queer relationship even though Martin himself might not be queer.

That depends. Does a relationship between, say, a bi guy and a bi girl count as "queer" just based on them being bi?
My take as a cis and het man:

The relationship between the two is technically het even though both participants are queer (the "B" in "LGBT.")

Marten is still het because Claire is a woman, though her being a trans woman (the "T" in "LGBT") makes the relationship technically queer (but also het "from a certain point of view" as Obi-Wan Kenobi famously said.) And what she has below the belt line is irrelevant ("and irrelevants are only in Africa," as Lord Jason was fond of saying.)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #119 on: 19 Aug 2020, 12:47 »

I can't really justify it, but on further reflection the phrasing of panel one has put idea of Clinton being Biromantic and whatever the appropriate term for a greysexual who hasn't quite figured that out about themselves.
I'd love to see Jeph go down the path of having a character whose romantic orientation and sexual orientation don't fully match up. And exploring how that affects dating & relationships for them etc... For example pan/bi-romantic and heterosexual (or homosexual or asexual). Or another combination. It could work well with a polyamory storyline too.

From a meta perspective - given that this is something we haven't seen in the comic yet and that Jeph is very big on inclusion - I think there's a decent chance that this is where this is leading. *Gets out my probably-panromantic-and-grey-heterosexual flag to wave vigorously*

(And hopefully it would still lead for happiness for Elliot  #TeamElliot)

*retrieves laptop from meat grinder*

A panromantic heterosexual character (or similar) would honestly make my day.

Also, I'm with everyone on the lack of poly relationships, but for whatever reason, I think I had my heart too set on Brun/Mille and Clinton/Elliot to root for Clinton/Elliot/Brun.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #120 on: 19 Aug 2020, 13:52 »

Can we just skip to the relationship we ALL really care about? Anthropomorphic French bread and Roko!
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #121 on: 19 Aug 2020, 14:10 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?
Also, people somehow seem to assume that Clinton being involved with both Elliot and Brun would rule out Brun being involved with Millefeuille?

Edit to add more comments that are going to be ignored:
- In my understanding of Clinton's previous conversation with Elliot, he didn't feel the need to categorise his orientation. He wasn't aware of being attracted to men, but he was open to the possibility.
- In my social circle, I've had someone come out as straight... (That's completely fine, of course, we are open-minded and everything)
« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2020, 14:38 by marbledmurrelet »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #122 on: 19 Aug 2020, 14:28 »

That depends. Does a relationship between, say, a bi guy and a bi girl count as "queer" just based on them being bi?

Yes, it does.  Both people involved are queer, and that doesn't go away just because their relationship happens to be the one man one woman model.  They still have to navigate biphobia and heteronormative assumptions that may not apply to them.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #123 on: 19 Aug 2020, 14:40 »

:) :) :)

look at all these different perspectives. As a longtime lurker that's definitely been one of the benefits of reading both this comic and this forum. It's expanded my worldview and shown me so, so many perspectives and experiences! The conclusion of which has generally been--just because it's something I haven't experienced before doesn't mean it doesn't exist <3


Agreed, the comic and this forum has proved to be invaluable to me with regards to expanding my worldview.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #124 on: 19 Aug 2020, 14:40 »


I can't imagine anyone normal being turned on by any sort of erotic scenario narrated by their sibling.  It's too damn close to incest.  I mean, a family member is telling you an erotic story, and then you like pop a woodie or something?

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody else is touching on this part.
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Kairi

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #125 on: 19 Aug 2020, 14:47 »


I can't imagine anyone normal being turned on by any sort of erotic scenario narrated by their sibling.  It's too damn close to incest.  I mean, a family member is telling you an erotic story, and then you like pop a woodie or something?

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody else is touching on this part.

we'll see what she says in the next page but the current page.... isn't even erotic lol (as noted by Pintsize). She's describing a hug. A topless hug sure but eh. I'd be comfortable talking to a best friend about that sort of thing, and that best friend relationship isn't sexual.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #126 on: 19 Aug 2020, 14:50 »

I can't imagine anyone normal being turned on by any sort of erotic scenario narrated by their sibling.  It's too damn close to incest.  I mean, a family member is telling you an erotic story, and then you like pop a woodie or something?
Yeah, I'm surprised nobody else is touching on this part.
I thought it was a bit weird, but so are those two... She advised him to visualise a situation with someone (literally) unrelated, and got carried away in supporting the visualising because Claire. Clinton's reaction could be more embarrassed than "popping a woodie"? Though I do think it looks like he likes the idea...
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #127 on: 19 Aug 2020, 15:19 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?
Also, people somehow seem to assume that Clinton being involved with both Elliot and Brun would rule out Brun being involved with Millefeuille?

Edit to add more comments that are going to be ignored:
- In my understanding of Clinton's previous conversation with Elliot, he didn't feel the need to categorise his orientation. He wasn't aware of being attracted to men, but he was open to the possibility.
- In my social circle, I've had someone come out as straight... (That's completely fine, of course, we are open-minded and everything)

Those are all very good points.

I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant about the poly relationship stuff. Any talk I've received about sexual orientation and relationships has completely skipped over that as an option; in fact, prior to Marten meeting Tai (which I first read ~4 months ago), I really didn't know they truly existed at all. Please tell me if I say anything else rude or offensive or just plain forgetful on that front.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #128 on: 19 Aug 2020, 15:30 »

My two cents, here. Actually i seem to remember Clint saying that he is a lot more open to stuff, cause his sister. So maybe its not that much OOC? And another thing is that when Claire says stuff like that with a romantic (couldnt find a better word) tone and he reacts, does it neccessary mean he thinks of Elliot like that? Maybe it is just about delivery and he was looking for a relationship for a while, so...

That being said, his reaction came to me like a little bit out of nowhere... But then maybe he did not even thought about it before much. Anyway, the did-not-have-serious-relationship-maybe-he-is-gay is a little bit played out cliche. I am curious how it will play out and honestly, it seems more stable relationship than with brun. :D

Eh, did not post here, for a long time. Hard times i guess.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #129 on: 19 Aug 2020, 15:32 »

If one views Marten and Claire's relationship as queer because one is queer, consider how you viewed Marten and Dora's relationship where, again, one was queer.

As for the comic, I hope things go the polyam route because I've enjoyed various character interactions that might be expanded upon, but right now I'm just really rooting for the Clinton/Elliot element to happen because this is...very cute.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #130 on: 19 Aug 2020, 15:37 »

I can't imagine anyone normal being turned on by any sort of erotic scenario narrated by their sibling.  It's too damn close to incest.  I mean, a family member is telling you an erotic story, and then you like pop a woodie or something?
Yeah, I'm surprised nobody else is touching on this part.
I thought it was a bit weird, but so are those two... She advised him to visualise a situation with someone (literally) unrelated, and got carried away in supporting the visualising because Claire. Clinton's reaction could be more embarrassed than "popping a woodie"? Though I do think it looks like he likes the idea...

To be fair, although it's obviously anecdotal, I for one would get all kinds of embarrassed and flustered with someone so aggressively pursuing an explicitly detailed line of questioning like this, even if -- as Pintsize pointed out -- it hadn't yet extended to the idea of outright sexual acts.

But then again, I'm a lifelong introvert who wouldn't willingly go volunteering my explicit thoughts on sex without a substantially good reason to do so and a strong likelihood of the person on the other side being accepting and non-judgmental.  Some people are a lot more comfortable with casual sexual talk, and all the best to them.

As for the comic, I hope things go the polyam route because I've enjoyed various character interactions that might be expanded upon, but right now I'm just really rooting for the Clinton/Elliot element to happen because this is...very cute.

As a tangent, it comes to mind that I seriously don't think that the comic has yet depicted an AI-to-AI romantic relationship -- but then again, there was that one strip of Winslow being stunned speechless over Roko, of which absolutely nothing has resulted since.
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Kairi

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #131 on: 19 Aug 2020, 15:44 »

Alright because a few posts have alluded to this but not said it specifically, imma explain: if you're on the asexual spectrum, you might not think about relationships/sex much. You don't have to be fully asexual to be on that spectrum! When I figured out I was demisexual (can develop sexual attraction, but not immediately/easily, though it differs for different people) it explained SO MUCH in my life. Most of my "crushes" early in life were basially intense feelings of "I would really like to be friends with that person." Sexuality just... didn't enter into it much. I experienced/lived this as heterosexuality though because that's what society told me these feelings meant. Once I figured out my level of sexual attraction was just different from others, and had a few specific, ah, realizations, I did discover very late in life (comparatively) that I'm bisexual. The possibility is definitely, definitely there lol.

tl;dr: people realizing their sexuality later in life is a thing

oh, and Clinton saying "I don't know how that works" relating to whether guys are hot? SO RELATABLE. I had to develop a vocabulary of what "hot" meant, so I could talk to people and know what they meant when they said someone was "hot." But I didn't... feel it, myself. So, having learned the vocabulary for one kind of attraction and not another totes makes sense to me!!
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #132 on: 19 Aug 2020, 15:49 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #133 on: 19 Aug 2020, 16:02 »

Quote

As a tangent, it comes to mind that I seriously don't think that the comic has yet depicted an AI-to-AI romantic relationship -- but then again, there was that one strip of Winslow being stunned speechless over Roko, of which absolutely nothing has resulted since.

There was Seven and the previously-just-an-arm AI whose name I can't remember for the life of me, and my archive-fu is not very good.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #134 on: 19 Aug 2020, 16:09 »

That would be Jeremy
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #135 on: 19 Aug 2020, 16:25 »

Quote
As a tangent, it comes to mind that I seriously don't think that the comic has yet depicted an AI-to-AI romantic relationship -- but then again, there was that one strip of Winslow being stunned speechless over Roko, of which absolutely nothing has resulted since.

There was Seven and the previously-just-an-arm AI whose name I can't remember for the life of me, and my archive-fu is not very good.
That would be Jeremy

Sure, but they were one-off characters and that was it.  Certainly nothing has happened with recurring AI characters, it's all been human-with-human or human-with-AI relationships so far.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #136 on: 19 Aug 2020, 16:27 »

Fair enough.

Also thanks for the reminder
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #137 on: 19 Aug 2020, 16:40 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?

My prescriptivist heart sympathizes with you, but any strategy that involves telling people not to use metonymy is guaranteed to lose. Also, this rule would sit oddly alongside other words that can be used of both people and relationships: sexual, romantic, monogamous or polyamorous, etc. In particular, it would be odd to have heterosexual and homosexual relationships, but not straight and gay ones.

On fantasy and awareness of one's attractions: never underestimate the depths and heights of self-deception that are attainable to a sufficiently motivated brain. I managed to go my entire adolescence without allowing my attraction to men to enter my conscious mind, despite regularly having fantasies about them that a neutral observer who could read my thoughts (there's a scary thought) would classify as clearly sexual. This isn't just possible, but typical (i.e. one of a few frequently recurring scenarios) among queer young people who are either in an unaccepting environment or for whatever reason have trouble accepting themselves.

While I don't know this, I can imagine that being bi rather than gay could make it even easier to do this and for a longer time. In Clinton's case, he might have been in a non-accepting environment for some of his formative years (cf. his asshole father about whom we have very little concrete information so far). If so, this would also probably have affected Claire in ways that the comic hasn't explored. However, it's not necessary to assume that's what happened. He might simply have ignored by default any attraction to men he had as long as circumstances didn't force it to his notice. When we first met him, he displayed a comical lack of self-awareness, which apparently he's still working through, though he's made a lot of progress.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #138 on: 19 Aug 2020, 16:58 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?

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Man, the battle Pandas, are you sure!? Might be an escalation too far. I mean, Iíve seen some stone-cold badasses in my time, but those pandas... they donít give a f*ck!!
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #139 on: 19 Aug 2020, 18:13 »

New comic!

Clinton is adorable, and Claire gives pretty good advice.
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Potato Farmer

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #140 on: 19 Aug 2020, 18:13 »

Ah yes. A practical concern.
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Zebediah

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #141 on: 19 Aug 2020, 18:30 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?

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Man, the battle Pandas, are you sure!? Might be an escalation too far. I mean, Iíve seen some stone-cold badasses in my time, but those pandas... they donít give a f*ck!!

Oh, battle pandas are far from the worst we could do. If things really go pear-shaped, we can release the invisible emus.

 :laugh:
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AfternoonGlory

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #142 on: 19 Aug 2020, 18:32 »

That was an adorable exchange. Also I've been giggling nonstop at this week's strips, maybe because I can relate to Clinton a lot.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #143 on: 19 Aug 2020, 18:36 »

That was an adorable exchange. Also I've been giggling nonstop at this week's strips, maybe because I can relate to Clinton a lot.

Me too, honestly; I kinda hated him up until that first date with Emily, but he's only improved since then.

Also, tomorrow's his Friday comic, right? Maybe we'll finally get a resolution this time.
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #144 on: 19 Aug 2020, 18:46 »

Clinton: "So how long does 'personal growth and acceptance' TAKE? I'm on a schedule."

Claire: "......"

Clinton: "What?"

snufflebottoms

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #145 on: 19 Aug 2020, 19:08 »

Clinton: "So how long does 'personal growth and acceptance' TAKE? I'm on a schedule."

Claire: "......"

Clinton: "What?"

Honestly as funny as that exchange was it's actually a reasonable question. Her advice is great but he still needs to handle the current situation in an amount of time shorter than a full journey of self acceptance. Either it will be a "let's see where this goes/take it slow" or a "I'm not ready for this right now."
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marbledmurrelet

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #146 on: 19 Aug 2020, 19:18 »

I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant about the poly relationship stuff. Any talk I've received about sexual orientation and relationships has completely skipped over that as an option; in fact, prior to Marten meeting Tai (which I first read ~4 months ago), I really didn't know they truly existed at all. Please tell me if I say anything else rude or offensive or just plain forgetful on that front.
Oh, nothing rude or offensive that I noticed. Just that in all the speculations and last week's poll listing all kinds of constellations, Brun/Mille + Clinton/Elliot and Clinton/Elliot/Brun were treated as mutually exclusive and the idea of "all of the above" didn't come up, but that doesn't make sense. Well, not to me at least. Then again, the whole concept of monogamy doesn't really make sense to me. It's a common misconception, though also a preference of some, that everyone has to be involved with everyone in a polyamorous relationship. While the more common reality seems to be along the lines of "A is involved with B and C, B and C hopefully get along, B is also married to D, C is casually dating a few other people, monogamous friends regularly ask for diagrams", oh and "A and B are looking for a 'third' to 'add to their relationship' and are surprised at the shortage of hot bi girls lining up to date both of them".

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Kairi

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #147 on: 19 Aug 2020, 19:19 »

that blep tho  :-P

(the "dummy" panel is quite possibly my favorite panel ever? lookit that sibling interaction d'awww)
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #148 on: 19 Aug 2020, 21:10 »

... he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.

Do people really do this? My fantasies get way ahead of me. That's what they're FOR.

I want to see Clinton go to the Horrible Revelation for a thoughtful beer and get some relationship advice from Jimbo.

Then completely ignore it as is right & proper because Jimbo.

Alternatively, treat whatever Jimbo says as "what to absolutely not do under any circumstances, on pain of pain."
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SmilingCat

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #149 on: 19 Aug 2020, 21:57 »

Sigh... How about, relationships don't have orientations or gender identities so they can't be queer or straight?  :?

People are hard coded to categorize things, and we've been walking around with this particular brand of baggage culturally hammered into us for hundreds of years. You might be waiting a while for such a simple and obvious concept to actually be simple an obvious to most people.  :laugh:
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