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Poll

What age range were you in when you were in your first serious relationship?

14 to 19
- 19 (29.2%)
20 to 24
- 19 (29.2%)
25 to 29
- 7 (10.8%)
30 to 34
- 3 (4.6%)
35 to 39
- 1 (1.5%)
40 to 44
- 0 (0%)
45 to 49
- 0 (0%)
50 to 54
- 0 (0%)
55 to 60
- 0 (0%)
a different age range
- 0 (0%)
not interested
- 3 (4.6%)
none yet
- 8 (12.3%)
Sven is not a mooch
- 5 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 65


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)  (Read 5167 times)

traroth

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #50 on: 18 Aug 2020, 01:34 »

In my own life, I was taught the "F*ck Yes" rule. If you ask someone out, anything other than a "F*ck Yes" (Not literally that word, but used to imply a definitive and firm yes) is really a no.

I've found it's generally true. "Maybe" "I'll get back to you" "I"ll let you know" "I'll think about it" "We might" "We could" generally are code for "no."

So I'll be interested to see how this places out.

I can imagine that asking a known heterosexual to enter an homosexual relationship could lead to some convoluted situations, whatever the final outcome would be...
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TinPenguin

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #51 on: 18 Aug 2020, 03:10 »

If you're a teenager or an uncomplicated 20-something, maybe this rule is relevant.

There are so many good reasons for "let me think about it". The person had not previously considered whether they were attracted to you. They hadn't considered whether they could be attracted to your gender.  They've made mistakes from rushing in too quick before. They were not mentally prepared for this social situation and need to calm down their brain before answering. They have a family or other responsibilities. They're about to move far away. They are asexual or aromantic and hadn't realised relationships could be a thing for them. They have health issues and the concept of a future is shaky at best. They have a deeply personal secret which they would have to trust you with. They're not sure if you're a vampire.

Speaking for myself, when I asked out my partner, about half of those were the case.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #52 on: 18 Aug 2020, 03:46 »

TinPenguin said it very well. While that "fuck yes" rule would be great in the context of consent, it doesn't work as well when it comes to automatically reading outright rejection into someone needing a bit more time to work out their response to a question. You'd certainly end up outright rejected if you stressed the other party out by showing them that's how you felt about them needing time to think! And I think Clinton made it very clear that he was genuinely open to the possibility and planning to think about this.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #53 on: 18 Aug 2020, 05:50 »

I had my first serious (and only) relationship at 19, and ended up marrying him. Which is great in many ways, although I sometimes wonder if I have 'missed out' on anything by not dating around more. Luckily my husband is the kind of person I can talk to about things like that.

I got married at 21 and divorced at 23. If you're still happy, then I don't think you've missed out on anything.

In my own life, I was taught the "F*ck Yes" rule. If you ask someone out, anything other than a "F*ck Yes" (Not literally that word, but used to imply a definitive and firm yes) is really a no.

I've found it's generally true. "Maybe" "I'll get back to you" "I"ll let you know" "I'll think about it" "We might" "We could" generally are code for "no."

So I'll be interested to see how this places out.

I do not share this experience.

Add mine to the chorus of the penguin and the voice.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #54 on: 18 Aug 2020, 05:54 »

I also agree that "let me think about it" can't simply be interpreted as a "no," and I am pretty confident that Clinton is not speaking in code. I don't really think that's him.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #55 on: 18 Aug 2020, 07:53 »

[...] They're not sure if you're a vampire.
For the record: I'm definitely a vampire. I dont like the sun. I got a sunburn two weeks ago and it still friggin hurts. And I used a factor 30 protection creme and applied it twice. :-\ Still wasnt enough. :-\

Sun = evil !!!
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #56 on: 18 Aug 2020, 08:05 »

I had my first serious (and only) relationship at 19, and ended up marrying him. Which is great in many ways, although I sometimes wonder if I have 'missed out' on anything by not dating around more. Luckily my husband is the kind of person I can talk to about things like that.

I got married at 21 and divorced at 23. If you're still happy, then I don't think you've missed out on anything.



Married at 21, widowed at 24, and I concur.

What matters is that you are happy. Mind you, I am non-monogamous, so I never really stopped dating, but still, there is no "missing out" as there is no universal path to follow. You found someone you enjoy being with, so it sounds like you had exactly the experience you wanted /needed.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #57 on: 18 Aug 2020, 09:36 »

I figured as much. Considering Clinton isn't just straight out saying "I'm not gay" then presumably he is bisexual. Well, at least Clinton has had only one and very brief on screen relationship with a woman and he's stated to have little to no real success with women before then. It's not like Jeph is contradicting any previously established history here.

I'm not so sure that not straight-up saying "I'm not gay" means that Clinton is bi - if he were a Gen-Xer or Boomer, that heuristic might make (have made?) sense, but I suspect that Millenials and Gen-Z feel much less pressure to sort themselves neatly into categories, and are much less afraid of having non-hetero thoughts and desires.

Way I remember coming of age in the late 80s/early 90s, that was still a 'thing' - you were gay or you weren't, and I doubt that many of my generation would have felt comfortable with a 'Maaaaaybe?'. And we spoke of (in-)tolerance rather than affirmation (of diversity).


Edit: When I say 'we', I mean "90s woke people" (and I agree that '90s woke' isn't very woke at all) - there was a lot of hostility towards queer people, and a lot of "tolerance for intolerance" even from 'progressives'.
« Last Edit: 18 Aug 2020, 09:43 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #58 on: 18 Aug 2020, 11:36 »

I do agree that it is a different dymanic.

It is very interesting to hear different perspectives, and especially those who have found that "maybe" can mean "yes" in the context of dating (not in terms of consent.)

In my experience, if I ask someone out and they reply with anything other than a yes, it is a no. If I follow up on a maybe, they will either give me another maybe, a "no" or simply not reply.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #59 on: 18 Aug 2020, 15:13 »

Edit: When I say 'we', I mean "90s woke people" (and I agree that '90s woke' isn't very woke at all) - there was a lot of hostility towards queer people, and a lot of "tolerance for intolerance" even from 'progressives'.
The way I see it, intolerance should be considered a disorder, sometimes debilitating---if the intolerant person finds himself unable to interact well with the persons he cannot tolerate. I don't think tolerance of intolerance necessarily condones intolerance, but is simply the ability to interact with the intolerant person. I'm quite tolerant of intolerance---to wit, I've years tolerant cohabitation with an aggressive bigot---but that doesn't stop me avoiding intolerants, discouraging intolerance.
In my experience, if I ask someone out and they reply with anything other than a yes, it is a no. If I follow up on a maybe, they will either give me another maybe, a "no" or simply not reply.
I think the reason for this is that, by default, you're not in the relationship, and entering a relationship requires all parties' consent. I prefer having a firm ``yes,'' before considering myself in a relationship, because it makes my internal bookkeeping about it cleaner. The way I have it is that, if there's no firm ``yes,'' then the relationship that is the case might be something that's very similar, and sometimes it's only later acknowledged by all parties, at which point it could be that the only difference in the relationship is that just before, there wasn't the acknowledgement, and then there was.
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SotFX

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #60 on: 18 Aug 2020, 16:25 »

I also agree that "let me think about it" can't simply be interpreted as a "no," and I am pretty confident that Clinton is not speaking in code. I don't really think that's him.

Even if it is a no, I can see this also as another messed up thing that he's got to figure out how to deal with.

A friend asking you out can be difficult to deal with anyway there because no matter how you answer it, the result can change the relationship alot.

On top of that, Clinton is already socially awkward, he's missing a lot of social cues and it's right inside of his problem area in the first place...which makes things even more difficult for him to figure out.

You also hit the situation where Clinton probably hadn't considered the type of relationship there...which adds even more to it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #61 on: 18 Aug 2020, 17:17 »

This is deep wisdom.

Quote
Would life have been different if you'd chosen someone else? Yes, and undoubtedly it would be better in some ways and worse in others. But that's not the point. It's not about trying to find your "soulmate" (a poisonous notion for which popular media has much to answer). It's about making a choice and a committment. Part of that committment is not spending serious time wondering about the other choices you could have made. The occasional "what if" isn't a problem, but if you find yourself asking it more and more often, you need to start paying attention to the choice you did make, because there's work that needs to be done. Any successful long term relationship needs continuing work and investment, just as a home or a car needs maintenance. It's easy to let it drift until the minor, unnoticed issues suddenly build up to something big, and a ceiling falls down or steam starts coming from the engine. We all have to guard against that tendency.

It reminds me of an aphorism that goes something like "Don't worry about making the right decision. Make the decision right."
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #62 on: 18 Aug 2020, 17:18 »

I also agree that "let me think about it" can't simply be interpreted as a "no," and I am pretty confident that Clinton is not speaking in code. I don't really think that's him.

Even if it is a no, I can see this also as another messed up thing that he's got to figure out how to deal with.

I wouldn't call it a "messed up thing." Otherwise; yes, he would need to figure out how to deal with it. How easy it is for Clinton to deal with will largely come down to how Elliot responds.

Will Elliot continue to attempt to change Clinton's mind, or focus a lot of attention on him? That would make things difficult.

Or will Elliot move on and focus his attention on capturing the affection of someone else? Even if Elliot still finds Clinton attractive, that would make things much easier.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #63 on: 18 Aug 2020, 17:23 »

This is deep wisdom.

Quote
Would life have been different if you'd chosen someone else? Yes, and undoubtedly it would be better in some ways and worse in others. But that's not the point. It's not about trying to find your "soulmate" (a poisonous notion for which popular media has much to answer). It's about making a choice and a committment. Part of that committment is not spending serious time wondering about the other choices you could have made. The occasional "what if" isn't a problem, but if you find yourself asking it more and more often, you need to start paying attention to the choice you did make, because there's work that needs to be done. Any successful long term relationship needs continuing work and investment, just as a home or a car needs maintenance. It's easy to let it drift until the minor, unnoticed issues suddenly build up to something big, and a ceiling falls down or steam starts coming from the engine. We all have to guard against that tendency.

It reminds me of an aphorism that goes something like "Don't worry about making the right decision. Make the decision right."

Agreed. Sorry Claire and Tai, but rom coms have a lot to answer for.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #64 on: 18 Aug 2020, 18:17 »

Elliot doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would continue to badger Clinton. If anything, he'll probably back off until Clinton makes up his mind.
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Beast_Reborn

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #65 on: 18 Aug 2020, 18:24 »

Comic's up!

I'm not at all sure about the way Claire is going about this. Is this about Clinton's desires, or hers?
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #66 on: 18 Aug 2020, 18:31 »

I think she's just trying to help Clinton figure out if he's attracted to Elliot or not, even though none of it is very Elliot-specific.


Also, Claire is pretty good at this. I wonder if she writes erotic fiction on the side? She and Tai could compare notes.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #67 on: 18 Aug 2020, 18:33 »

Claire's going romance novel at Clinton - but Clinton's the one who's overheating, blushing, and about to blow a gasket.  Claire's fine.

Weighing in on the "Let me think about it" issue - to me, that means "no until I've come back to you about it."  I wouldn't push for another answer, but I also wouldn't give up hope, at least not right away.  If they haven't gotten back to me within a week or so, THEN I would assume it's a "no".
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #68 on: 18 Aug 2020, 18:38 »

Comic's up!

I'm not at all sure about the way Claire is going about this. Is this about Clinton's desires, or hers?

whynotboth.gif
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #69 on: 18 Aug 2020, 18:42 »

Pintsize has got a point. If Clinton thought of Elliot as a friend, I have a feeling the hugging dynamic would be more comfort than "hhhhhh."

That's a pretty good indicator that Clinton is at least sexually attracted to guys (or some guys, anyway), but we're still mostly blind on the romantic front.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #70 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:01 »

Clinton.exe has overheated.

Reboot/retry?

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #71 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:04 »

Well, I guess Clinton is having a moment of clarity here, so perhaps it's just what he needed. In fact, the fact that this reaction is coming on so easily suggests that his feelings weren't buried as deeply as they seemed, which is a major difference from the protracted Faye/Bubbles arc.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #72 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:04 »

whynotboth.gif
In fairness to Clinton's possibly non-existant heterosexuality: Claire's description is extremely appealing to me on a non-sexual level. I am deeply touch-starved due to an fear of so much as touching other people, especially women instilled by years of exhortations that, as an XY individual, I must mind my strength and raw inpulses at all times, constantly wary of the inherent beast within. One of my best friends insists on hugging me on our every parting because he knows this and accepts that aspect of my psychology.


That said, Clinton is doing some deep thinking guided by Claire (and Pintsize?). I hope Elliot, Clinton, Millefuille, and Brunhilde all arrive in a situation that brings the most pleasure to all of them with as few broken hearts as possible.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #73 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:38 »

whynotboth.gif
In fairness to Clinton's possibly non-existant heterosexuality: Claire's description is extremely appealing to me on a non-sexual level. I am deeply touch-starved due to an fear of so much as touching other people, especially women instilled by years of exhortations that, as an XY individual, I must mind my strength and raw inpulses at all times, constantly wary of the inherent beast within. One of my best friends insists on hugging me on our every parting because he knows this and accepts that aspect of my psychology.

Hey, me too! Come on over once quarantine's over and we'll have a nice platonic hug.  :lol:
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #74 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:44 »

whynotboth.gif
In fairness to Clinton's possibly non-existant heterosexuality: Claire's description is extremely appealing to me on a non-sexual level. I am deeply touch-starved due to an fear of so much as touching other people, especially women instilled by years of exhortations that, as an XY individual, I must mind my strength and raw inpulses at all times, constantly wary of the inherent beast within. One of my best friends insists on hugging me on our every parting because he knows this and accepts that aspect of my psychology.


That said, Clinton is doing some deep thinking guided by Claire (and Pintsize?). I hope Elliot, Clinton, Millefuille, and Brunhilde all arrive in a situation that brings the most pleasure to all of them with as few broken hearts as possible.

I can't imagine anyone normal being turned on by any sort of erotic scenario narrated by their sibling.  It's too damn close to incest.  I mean, a family member is telling you an erotic story, and then you like pop a woodie or something? 

I'm also not really sure that this would be the sort of scenario where someone would realistically figure out if they were bisexual.  Presumably Clinton has never fantasized about men before, or he wouldn't feel confused as he said in the first panel.  I can buy that you could like start making out with a dude and realize hey, it's not so bad.  But I don't see how your sister talking dirty to you would be what would cause your sexual awakening. 
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de_la_Nae

Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #75 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:50 »




 known heterosexual

sorry friend, but citation needed

there's been a helluva lot of ink spilled on cultural assumptions, so i hate to spill more, but... yeah.


 Presumably Clinton has never fantasized about men before, or he wouldn't feel confused as he said in the first panel.

er.... hey friend, I don't know if you've noticed, but *gestures at men*

that ain't how it works for... gosh, a lot lot lot lot lot of people

de_la_Nae

Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #76 on: 18 Aug 2020, 19:56 »

also i'm not sure exactly what it means, though i have some suspicions, that there's so relatively few of you that seem to be actually enjoying this so far

edit: i'm not here all the time for all dating stories, but there's a *marked* difference in how the aggregate you reacts to the different joyful pairings and hopeful pairings, and like... I feel like there's a paper or three in that.

edit again cuz fuckit: elliot's being adorable, clinton's being adorable, they make me squee, what can i say

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #77 on: 18 Aug 2020, 20:00 »

I find myself agreeing with Pintsize. Which is generally not a good thing.

Seriously, the narrative Claire spins doesn't do anything for me, because, y'know, I'm not at all attracted to men, or male sexual attributes like bulging muscles. Clinton's reactions make him out to be pretty gay.

I'm no longer sold on him being bi. Mainly because he didn't overheat that way over Brun or Emily. In fact, he had a conversation with Brun where he expressed uncertainty as to whether he was attracted to her. Which was a conversation I found decidedly weird at the time, since I've never had any doubts about who I found attractive. But then, I was never a gay male attempting to struggle against cultural programming telling me I should be interested in women.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #78 on: 18 Aug 2020, 20:05 »

No!  Clinton and Brun!
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #79 on: 18 Aug 2020, 20:30 »

also i'm not sure exactly what it means, though i have some suspicions, that there's so relatively few of you that seem to be actually enjoying this so far

edit: i'm not here all the time for all dating stories, but there's a *marked* difference in how the aggregate you reacts to the different joyful pairings and hopeful pairings, and like... I feel like there's a paper or three in that.

edit again cuz fuckit: elliot's being adorable, clinton's being adorable, they make me squee, what can i say

I wouldn't mind this being unpacked a bit. The implication seems to be that people here have some kind of problem with gay male relationships, but given what I know of this forum (and I'm a brand new poster, but I've been reading posts for a while), I don't think that's true?

Personally, I'm approaching this storyline a little cautiously because: (1) it might end in disappointment; Jeph is certainly ruthless enough to do that (2) I'm not sure how I feel about it from a storytelling perspective, as I said last week, especially given its similarity to what happened with Faye and Bubbles (3) I'm a gay male who can easily imagine himself falling for Clinton in real life (I don't have muscles like that though), so I'm actually making an effort not to take this storyline too personally, as it were.

I'm no longer sold on him being bi. Mainly because he didn't overheat that way over Brun or Emily. In fact, he had a conversation with Brun where he expressed uncertainty as to whether he was attracted to her. Which was a conversation I found decidedly weird at the time, since I've never had any doubts about who I found attractive. But then, I was never a gay male attempting to struggle against cultural programming telling me I should be interested in women.

I don't think there's any doubt about the genuineness of Clinton's attraction to Brun or Emily. Remember how nervous and flustered he got on his date with Emily, eventually doing a lot of weird (well, out of character) stuff just to impress her. I struggle to make any sense of that in terms of cultural programming - he acted like he was well and truly smitten. As for the conversation with Brun, I don't think he was expressing doubt at all, only nervousness at telling her.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #80 on: 18 Aug 2020, 20:33 »


er.... hey friend, I don't know if you've noticed, but *gestures at men*

that ain't how it works for... gosh, a lot lot lot lot lot of people

You need to be more specific here, because I have no idea what you are inferring.

I can understand not realizing you are attracted to one gender until later in life.  I just don't think this kind of scene - funny as it is - would be a realistic eureka moment.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #81 on: 18 Aug 2020, 20:39 »

(1) it might end in disappointment; Jeph is certainly ruthless enough to do that

I'll be honest - as of right now, I am unconvinced that he is. Maybe he was once.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #82 on: 18 Aug 2020, 20:45 »

Time does seem to have mellowed Jeph. I feel that _if_ Clinton turns Elliot down, he will do it in the gentlest way possible, although I don't see that happening, given how he reacted to Claire's story. He'd be lucky to have Elliot: all that AND he smells like freshly baked bread!
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de_la_Nae

Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #83 on: 18 Aug 2020, 21:00 »


You need to be more specific here, because I have no idea what you are inferring.


Right, okay.

i'm not, at this moment, disputing what you say about the scene. but you said, whether you truly notice it or not, more than just what was related to the scene, eschaton. Which is why i specifically quoted out one specific assertion you made, that I am flatly stating is incorrect.

i quote again,
Presumably Clinton has never fantasized about men before, or he wouldn't feel confused as he said in the first panel. 

if you go to the quiet and semi-secret places where men actually discuss their attractions and their fantasies, if you look at what men actually do in their lives, this statement doesn't hold water. for what rather seems to be the majority of men, this is not how it works, despite the propaganda lines too many of them too-often spout when they fear loss of status. The ideas put forth in this statement, that fantasies resolve confusion, are inadequate to explain reality.


I wouldn't mind this being unpacked a bit. The implication seems to be that people here have some kind of problem with gay male relationships, but given what I know of this forum (and I'm a brand new poster, but I've been reading posts for a while), I don't think that's true?


i've been here for far too many years, and seen what feels like too many of these dances. it's not as a simple as it being gay male relationships, though I do in fact think it's part of the mix. it's not as simple as 'problem', or at least not as clean and well-defined. it tastes of something like respectability, but not quite that. something like accepted forms, but not quite that. there is an offness in it that i struggle to explain. i try not to bring it up too often because i do not have the wisdom to state it plainly. if i could stand up these events next to each other, as statues, i am personally convinced the difference would be noticeable, if perhaps not at first glance.

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #84 on: 18 Aug 2020, 21:06 »

whynotboth.gif
In fairness to Clinton's possibly non-existant heterosexuality: Claire's description is extremely appealing to me on a non-sexual level. I am deeply touch-starved due to an fear of so much as touching other people, especially women instilled by years of exhortations that, as an XY individual, I must mind my strength and raw inpulses at all times, constantly wary of the inherent beast within. One of my best friends insists on hugging me on our every parting because he knows this and accepts that aspect of my psychology.


That said, Clinton is doing some deep thinking guided by Claire (and Pintsize?). I hope Elliot, Clinton, Millefuille, and Brunhilde all arrive in a situation that brings the most pleasure to all of them with as few broken hearts as possible.
Pretty sure that first panel indicates he's bi to some degree.
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« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2020, 01:20 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #85 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:00 »

I can't really justify it, but on further reflection the phrasing of panel one has put idea of Clinton being Biromantic and whatever the appropriate term for a greysexual who hasn't quite figured that out about themselves.

Or maybe he's just a polite young man who has yet to have any sort of long-enough term romantic relationship for sex to really be on his radar and he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #86 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:12 »

Claire's going romance novel at Clinton - but Clinton's the one who's overheating, blushing, and about to blow a gasket.  Claire's fine.

Weighing in on the "Let me think about it" issue - to me, that means "no until I've come back to you about it."  I wouldn't push for another answer, but I also wouldn't give up hope, at least not right away.  If they haven't gotten back to me within a week or so, THEN I would assume it's a "no".
This is also my opinion. I would say that if someone says "maybe", then it's up to them to get back to you if they conclude that they are interested. If they don't get back to you - then either that "maybe" was actually a "no" all along or it turned into a "no" after they thought about it some more. If their "maybe" turns into a "yes" after they spend some time thinking about it, they will let you know.

And that looks like that'll be the case here :-D :-D :-D
(Proudly waves my Team "Elliot deserves some happiness after Jeph being mean to him for so long" flag)

Also having reread a fair bit of the comic lately, I think Jeph has been leading up to Clinton & Elliot getting together for a very long time. My evidence - not just this moment in 3710 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3710), but also many of Clinton & Elliot's interactions since that time. It definitely seems to me that Jeph has been trying to show that Clinton cares about Elliot a lot (eg. the way he is always so quick to reassure Elliot when Elliot is putting himself down) and that there's some latent attraction that Clinton is experiencing but hasn't recognized yet (eg. Clinton blushing when Elliot compliments him and when he lifts him up). So this week is going pretty much as I expected - Clinton needing some time to think, him talking it over with someone, then realising he is actually interested...

Next up - Elliot speaking to Renee about how he's super worried that he might have screwed everything up? (This prediction is probably too obvious to be worth making to be honest...)
« Last Edit: 18 Aug 2020, 23:19 by jesslc »
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Gus_Smedstad

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #87 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:16 »

Another explanation is that we're putting more thought into it than Jeph has. That he's just gone with whatever he wanted to write in each Clinton storyline, and he hasn't dwelt too much on the backstory.

As for fantasies - well, I was fantasizing about the girl down the street when I was 13. It starts pretty early for guys, I had no doubts at all about my interests by the time I was a 20-something. I have no idea, however, how it is for gay males. I didn't have to deal with any cultural programming telling me that wanting to do stuff with girls was "wrong."

I will say that it was definitely an internal, instinctual thing. Prior to age 13, I knew what the mechanics were, and I knew what the equipment looked like from "playing doctor," but I wasn't really interested. Then a switch flipped and suddenly I was pretty motivated to have sex and think about sex.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #88 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:17 »

As someone who is currently (finally) wrestling with the idea of maybe being greysexual or otherwise ace herself, all that overheating doesn't really fit for me. I can relate very strongly to the sentiment of not really getting how attraction "works," but his response to what Claire's describing...I guess seems very sexual to me? Not sure how to put it.

Tbh, I don't see that much similarity between Clinton and Elliot's situation and the one between Bubbles and Faye. Theirs was a relationship that grew slowly and laboriously: from a seed of wanting to help someone struggling in a familiar dark place, through long term friendship - first shaky, then strong - with a side trip through business partnership before finally arriving at a romantic place. Clinton and Elliot have had some lighthearted interactions as friendly acquaintances, one was immediately or at least quickly aware that he felt attracted to the other, and then the other ended up having to figure out how he feels in response to that. But then...see my above response to Tyr. Maybe the way I'm wired just makes me care that much less about the similar sexuality of the parties involved.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #89 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:18 »

Or maybe he's just a polite young man who has yet to have any sort of long-enough term romantic relationship for sex to really be on his radar and he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.
That's not how males work. Sex is definitely on your radar long, long before relationships are a possibility or sex is at all likely.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #90 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:19 »

Well, I think we at least have an insight into Claire's view of Marten. I wonder if he knows that she's so enraptured with the physical experience of him?
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #91 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:27 »

I don't think you can accurately claim that you know how all males work, Gus. For that matter, I don't think it's right to act like female and non-binary people wouldn't have had your experience of fantasizing early and often and having a "switch flip" and suddenly feeling really motivated to have/think about sex. I've had plenty of girls/women talk to me about this kind of thing over the years, while I waited and waited to find out what it was like.
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de_la_Nae

Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #92 on: 18 Aug 2020, 23:36 »


I will say that it was definitely an internal, instinctual thing.

Prior to age 13, I knew what the mechanics were, and I knew what the equipment looked like from "playing doctor," but I wasn't really interested.

Then a switch flipped and suddenly I was pretty motivated to have sex and think about sex.

I wonder who taught you how to "play doctor".

I do not choose to dispute your accounting of how things seemed to switch on for you, but I cannot help but notice in that account, as it stands written here, a rather large hole for a, how to put it.... "priming the pump", sort of thing, that teaches you What To Do when that switch flips. One big enough to go beyond instinct alone.

I mean perhaps that's not the case with you. While I have scant evidence that such... 'purity' of attraction exists in even common measures in the species, the world is wide and I do not know all things in it. I am more interested in highlighting pernicious assumed variables that get in the way of such discussions as y'all are having.

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #93 on: 19 Aug 2020, 01:04 »

As for fantasies - well, I was fantasizing about the girl down the street when I was 13. It starts pretty early for guys, (...)

I don't mean to sound snarky, but how many guys did you talk to about their fantasies? Because in my experience, pubescent/teenage boys don't exactly discuss their sexual feelings freely, and when they do, they do it in a crude and, in a way, extremely guarded manner. Maybe that's different outside of 90s Poland, but based on what I've read over the years, that doesn't seem to be the case.

My point is, what you write implies is started pretty early for *you*. And you seem to extend this to "guys", and I can't help but wonder how many conversations you've had with other men to confirm that. Because otherwise, you're extrapolating from your own experience, and that's dangerous. Especially since (in my experience) men are conditioned to fit in, in terms of sexuality, so even when the topic *is* for some reason breached, there's a good chance a man will conform with (what he thinks is) the norm. And that skews the perception of what "typically" happens. A lot.

And in fact, the conversations I had with my peers in Junior High or whatever seems to confirm that. Conversations around sex were very awkward, very guarded and very focused on showing off what we felt would prove we were knowledgeable about stuff (not exactly very conducive to genuine sharing of experiences). Not to mention exraordinarily sexist, but that's another conversation.

Or to put it another way: going from "that's how it happened to me" to "that's how it typically happens" is a very big jump. And even then, the jump from "that's how it typically happens" to "that's universally true" is an even bigger one, especially when there's a cultural incentive for men to stay quiet if their own experience doesn't fit the mold.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #94 on: 19 Aug 2020, 01:07 »

Or maybe he's just a polite young man who has yet to have any sort of long-enough term romantic relationship for sex to really be on his radar and he's making an effort to not get ahead of himself with fantasies.
That's not how males work. Sex is definitely on your radar long, long before relationships are a possibility or sex is at all likely.

See my post immediately above, but I'm gonna repeat - how do you know that? Do you have an insight into what is fundamental and immutable about the male mind?

I was interested in girls (in fact, a specific girl) in a... let's say, proto-romantic way when we were both about 5. I didn't even know sex existed at the time, not even in crudest, simplest terms. I most certainly didn't have anything resembling a sexual attraction to her. We interacted in a way that mimicked a more adult romantic relationship, for years. I'm not saying that's typical, but I have no reason to believe I was a unique, special unicorn, either.

(and that wasn't just a fluke. Around puberty, I was interested in girls multiple times. I'm sure there was a sexual dimension to it, but I never explicitly thought of the girls in a sexual way. I knew I liked them, I knew I wanted to spend time with them, and as I got older, I considered the possibility of asking them to be my girlfriends. Interest in sex specifically is something that developed around this time for me, yes, but it was very gradual and certainly didn't *predate* my romantic feelings.)
« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2020, 01:13 by oddtail »
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #95 on: 19 Aug 2020, 01:20 »

Just to provide the anecdotal counter-example, I developed romantic crushes on girls well before sex was on the radar.

It's easy to assume that males develop an interest in sex early because of the omnipresent "all guys think about is sex" narrative that conflates pursuing female attention with a sexual drive.
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #96 on: 19 Aug 2020, 01:24 »

Just to provide the anecdotal counter-example, I developed romantic crushes on girls well before sex was on the radar.

It's easy to assume that males develop an interest in sex early because of the omnipresent "all guys think about is sex" narrative that conflates pursuing female attention with a sexual drive.

Heck, the narrative is "all guys think about is sex WITH WOMEN". You'll find plenty of stories online of particularly bi, but sometimes even gay guys who say it should've been obvious in retrospect, but who had a facepalm moment about being attracted to guys followed immediately by a  "oh, THAT is what it is" moment of realisation/relief. Only because the general set of expectations doesn't really put that possibility in people's mind.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #97 on: 19 Aug 2020, 01:50 »

How many of the people who don't buy this writing of Clinton are males who are sexually active or interested in sex with men and others too?

Because it feels painfully obvious the lack of quietness in some of these posts.

My interactions with and about different genders are completely different, and the attractions are too. Or more accurately, work differently person to person but also broadly differently between genders.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #98 on: 19 Aug 2020, 02:39 »

My first crush on a girl was with five and my second was with ten, in both cases long before puberty and a sex drive, and thus I also had no sexual fantasies.

During puberty, I didnt have many sexual fantasies on ladies either, except very strong ones on the one I had a crush on.

If nobody would ever have told me that homosexuality exists, I'm pretty sure I would still have no clue it existed.


[...] Clinton's reactions make him out to be pretty gay. [...]
Wait, thats supposed to be a POSITIVE reaction ???????? Woa, I totally though the opposite.
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Re: WCDT Strips 4331-4335 (18-22, August 2020)
« Reply #99 on: 19 Aug 2020, 03:12 »

[...] Clinton's reactions make him out to be pretty gay. [...]
Wait, thats supposed to be a POSITIVE reaction ???????? Woa, I totally though the opposite.

The positive is figuring out what your feelings are, regardless of which way they lean.  The common conventional view that men generally think about sex first is, as has been said, not universal, and in any case doesn't prevent the possibility of feeling attraction to a person rather than their gender.
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