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Poll

How will May react to the shirt Marigold brings her?

horrified facial expression trying but unable to stammer out a response
¬_¬ "Ok. Yeah, I deserve this."
"Huh? I don't get it. Whatever." Then, Friday we cut back to May cursing as whatever the meaning is slowly dawns on her.
the above except the shirt signals strange/creepy individuals to start talking to her everywhere she goes, much to her consternation.
"Heh. That's great."
she loves whatever horribleness it is so much she hugs Marbear and thanks her
she holds it up stares at it in silence, then turns to Marigold and apologizes
"Sven is not a mooch?"
other

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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)  (Read 3280 times)

Penquin47

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #100 on: 07 Oct 2020, 23:06 »

New strip.

My only issue is Dan reminds me of a more 'together' version of Marten.  :-P
I'm not seeing that comparison. What are you noticing that makes you say this?

Giant nerds in high school (Marten skipping prom for D&D, Shitty Dan and his Magic: the Gathering habit)
Chilled out in college
Have a go-with-the-flow personality
Aren't ashamed of their current nerddoms (Marten with his music, Dan with his pipes)
And, of course, there's the old parallels with Renee being Secret Bakery Universe Faye.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #101 on: 07 Oct 2020, 23:09 »

This is going too well, give me a moment to bring us down a few notches. :laugh:

"Everything will go wrong."
"The worst is already here."
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #102 on: 08 Oct 2020, 00:47 »

I believe that Renee's problem here is what I've heard described as 'catastrophisation'. Basically, every time she realises things are going well, her imagination goes into overdrive looking for hidden flaws, faults and warning signs that are going to lead to the worst possible outcome. Really, it isn't healthy and I do think that we're being given a clue the number of times one of Renee's Tinder dates have turned into a crash-and-burn.

So... um... Am I the only one who sees the subtext in this strip as Jeph saying: "Shit... I'd better start fleshing out Renee's personality if I'm going to give her a major character arc!" This 'I like making things as good as I can get them' is the first real personality quirk that I've seen other than 'No Speech or Behavioural Filter'.

Panel 4 and 5: Now kiss! FWIW, I think that they both think that it is too early for that and are restraining the urge. They're both adults, after all, and can't fall deliriously in love at the first meeting in probably about 5-6 years and get into their forever-relationship! Can they? :wink:
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #103 on: 08 Oct 2020, 01:38 »

"Conspiracy theories... Ghosts and Aliens." 
I wish conspiracy theories nowadays were about ghosts and aliens and lizard men... cause holy $&@! the bullshit that flys nowadays makes me feel old, and that the world is getting dumber.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #104 on: 08 Oct 2020, 04:33 »

So, here's a theory going forwards: What is the other shoe to drop?

We know that Elliot was peer-pressured and into joining in bullying at high school. Was Dan one of his victims? Maybe Dan still nurses a grievance over that. So, he goes to the Horrible Revelation tonight to congratulate himself on getting off of the starting blocks with Renee. Naturally, he sees who is door security and all those grievances come back to him. He also sees how Elliot is nervously flirting with Clinton but how Brun seems to be a third wheel - Clinton is attracted to her and Brun, being Brun isn't quite noticing. So, he decides to interfere and try to get Clinton and Brun together "because Khouri deserves that nice redheaded kid more than you do". This hits Elliot in his most vulnerable spot because, quite frankly, he doesn't know for sure that this is untrue.

More light-heartedly, maybe there will be a second date and Elliot will also bring Clinton to the same place. And Sven will bring May. And Brun will bring Millifeulle. There results many chaotic interactions through the night.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #105 on: 08 Oct 2020, 04:45 »

Nah, what it is, is he’s in an open relationship so he just has to let his boyfriend know where he’ll be for the evening…
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #106 on: 08 Oct 2020, 07:19 »

I disagree that "Farts are poop ghosts", Jeph.  I think farts are poop doorbells.  When Nature calls, they may first ring the doorbell.  And you better answer the door or uncontrolled poopage may ensue.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #107 on: 08 Oct 2020, 07:37 »

I miss "Zombie Monkey wants your coffee".

Bubbles would really rock a tux.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #108 on: 08 Oct 2020, 10:26 »

Dan's only in town temporarily and Renee only has temporary relationships.  <sarcasm>What's not to like about that??!??</sarcasm>

Besides, it sounds like he travels a lot, so maybe this could work for both of them?
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #109 on: 08 Oct 2020, 13:22 »

So, here's a theory going forwards: What is the other shoe to drop?

We know that Elliot was peer-pressured and into joining in bullying at high school. Was Dan one of his victims?

I don't think Elliot went to school with Brun, Renee, and Dan though. Brun and Renee are from Lawrence (although Jeph seems to have temporarily forgotten this.) And while we don't know for sure where Elliot went to high school, the conversation Brun and Renee had with him in the moving truck made it sound like they didn't know him in high school.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #110 on: 08 Oct 2020, 13:40 »

Not necessarily. Being more interested in May's wardrobe than in Renee's/Elliot's romantic endeavors might just mean that you're more invested in May as a character. Or tired of rom-com storylines. Or heavily into nerd fashion. Or any of a dozen different other reasons.

At least as things now stand, May is a more interesting character, whether or not one can take her general attitude towards life.  Renee started out as a gag "Mirror Universe" Faye, and a bit of a punchline when Angus describes the breakup.  She hasn't really had enough time in-comic to really grow and develop. 
She's kinda "meh" for me now, but who knows what she'll be like in 1000 strips or so? 
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #111 on: 08 Oct 2020, 16:13 »

We know that Elliot was peer-pressured and into joining in bullying at high school. Was Dan one of his victims? Maybe Dan still nurses a grievance over that. So, he goes to the Horrible Revelation tonight to congratulate himself on getting off of the starting blocks with Renee. Naturally, he sees who is door security and all those grievances come back to him. He also sees how Elliot is nervously flirting with Clinton but how Brun seems to be a third wheel - Clinton is attracted to her and Brun, being Brun isn't quite noticing. So, he decides to interfere and try to get Clinton and Brun together "because Khouri deserves that nice redheaded kid more than you do". This hits Elliot in his most vulnerable spot because, quite frankly, he doesn't know for sure that this is untrue.
I vote the former, but bet the latter.
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #112 on: 08 Oct 2020, 18:33 »

New strip up!

Yay, second date.

Boo, he's only in town for a week.

Fling? :D

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #113 on: 08 Oct 2020, 18:38 »

Hey, high Charisma rolls are useful! That's how I convinced a dragon not to attack us a couple of months ago during a D&D session.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #114 on: 08 Oct 2020, 19:12 »

Hey, high Charisma rolls are useful! That's how I convinced a dragon not to attack us a couple of months ago during a D&D session.

"You have seduced the dragon."

"WHAT."

"I'm sure you'll be happy together...."

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #115 on: 08 Oct 2020, 19:41 »

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #116 on: 08 Oct 2020, 19:42 »

"Oh, it's a date now?"

*rolls a natural 1*

"No, it CANNOT be a date. I had a horrible time and I never want to see you again. Leave me, vile human."
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #117 on: 08 Oct 2020, 20:20 »

D&D reference? Keep him.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #118 on: 08 Oct 2020, 20:50 »

"You have seduced the dragon."

"WHAT."

"I'm sure you'll be happy together...."

Heh.  I once had a character who was as close to a fighter/necromancer allowed under 2nd ed rules who ended up seducing (and entering a relationship with) a vampire warlord.  It was kinda nice to be able to get strike teams of spectres at my disposal for the threat that we were dealing with at the time, even if the goody two-shoes in the party didn't like it.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #119 on: 08 Oct 2020, 21:39 »

"Conspiracy theories... Ghosts and Aliens." 
I wish conspiracy theories nowadays were about ghosts and aliens and lizard men... cause holy $&@! the bullshit that flys nowadays makes me feel old, and that the world is getting dumber.

The disinformation racket is big and there are more suckers than ever.

Everybody knows the government is corrupt, but if nobody knows what they're doing, they can't be called out. Hence why no matter the veracity, most of today's stuff has to do with the legal definition of conspiracy (conspiracy to commit fraud, conspiracy to kidnap, conspiracy to commit murder, etc).

That said, the Pentagon has done some really wild shit. Like trying to weaponize lone star ticks to spread lyme disease for example. Then there's Project MKULTRA and all the insanity from the declassified documentation we have on that.

Other known conspiracy facts (i.e. declassified and reems of government documents) include the CIA shipping drugs for the Corsican mafia and various CIA-backed drug lords starting in the 40s up through the end of the Vietnam War.
In 1950 he US Navy conducted an experiment they code-named “Operation Sea-Spray,” in which they secretly sprayed the population of San Francisco Bay Area with Serratia marcescens (a human pathogen) to “determine the susceptibility of a big city like San Francisco to a bioweapon attack by terrorists. BTW, the US army has admitted to conducting 239 germ warfare tests in open air between 1949 and 1969 in major metropolitan areas.
And, of course, let's not forget the Panama Papers. Then there's the fact that the reporter who broke that story was killed with a car bomb.

EDIT: added some formatting.
« Last Edit: 09 Oct 2020, 04:37 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #120 on: 08 Oct 2020, 22:14 »

Hey, high Charisma rolls are useful! That's how I convinced a dragon not to attack us a couple of months ago during a D&D session.

"You have seduced the dragon."

"WHAT."

"I'm sure you'll be happy together...."

In many fantasy settings, dragons are the closest thing among the mortal races to gods.  Many are also capable of taking on human form.
And what are humans, gods, and dragons all known for?
Hint: there's a lot of "half-_____"s and "_____-blooded" hybrids running around.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #121 on: 08 Oct 2020, 22:44 »

Is he not being himself when he goes to “the gym and parties and stuff?”

Yes and no. He might enjoys parties and working out. But when he meets people at the parties, he’d be very careful not to talk about anything he thinks might be construed as “nerdy”. Also if he had any mannerisms or ways of speaking that don’t sound like the way the other hot, successful  20-somethings talk or act, he doesn’t use them at the party or the gym. He’s himself, but an enhanced or more socially acceptable self.
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #122 on: 08 Oct 2020, 23:36 »

You know, Dan, you were doing so well there. Fortunately, Renee didn't seem too put off there and is still willing to have a formal date. Thinking about it, it will be interesting to see what happens after this week is over,  though. Just how settled is Dan in wherever he lives now? Certainly, an early sign that this isn't over yet will be Dan to become a regular correspondent and 'drops in' to Northhampton whenever he has an excuse to do so!

FWIW, I think that this scenario makes my suggestion about the multiple colliding dates more likely.

I obviously have not played the same d20 games as Jeph. To me, a CHR roll of 20 is an automatic catastrophic failure. If Dan had rolled 20 under that system, he would have become explosively incontinent, tripped over his own feet, face-planted in front of Renee and then panic-vomited all over her shoes. Don't speculate on what would happen if he'd failed his recovery roll!

Now, the roll where 20 is a good thing is in deciding combat damage. Most systems call that 'automatic kill' and a roll of 1 being 'somehow the weapon bounced off the foe's ludicrously-bemuscled body', as Farideh's meme above basically demonstrates.
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Reaver

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #123 on: 09 Oct 2020, 00:04 »

Dan is doing perfectly fine, not sure how I feel about the implication that his nerdyness is only tollerated bc he’s hot though.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #124 on: 09 Oct 2020, 00:41 »

I think neither Renée nor Dan are looking for something serious here. This coffee date was basically to catch up and get somewhat reacquainted. And the "OK, let's call it a date" event probably is something like "let's see how far we want to take this".
IMO Renée realised Dan still is somewhat of a dork, and that probably offsets her awkwardness in this situation.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #125 on: 09 Oct 2020, 00:46 »

Dan is doing perfectly fine, not sure how I feel about the implication that his nerdyness is only tollerated bc he’s hot though.

Yes, of course he is doing fine. He is being himself.

He is only doing badly if you are watching through the ship lens.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #126 on: 09 Oct 2020, 01:31 »

Renee... OK, she annoys me. I know it's just one comment, but way to be judgmental. She really clicks with someone, they have a great time, but he makes a reference to D&D, and suddenly he's a big nerd.

Plus, the reference is so obvious and basic that it's hardly super-nerdy. I've seen people make similar references whose eyes glaze over if anything remotely geeky gets discussed. It's not like RPG-like mechanics haven't entered board games and video games, some of which are very accessible and more mainstream than tabletop RPG ever were. What's next, Renee calling him a nerd because he references Star Wars? Because he's read a comic book in his life? Because he owns a computer?

Grow up, Renee.
[/rant]

@BenRG: "all high rolls are better" has been the default for the d20 system since 3rd Edition D&D, mostly because the inconsistency was inconvenient and confusing to newcomers. So, the last 20 years. With the comic's (apparently) sliding time scale, I don't think Dan would've played AD&D or earlier.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #127 on: 09 Oct 2020, 02:06 »

Dan is doing perfectly fine, not sure how I feel about the implication that his nerdyness is only tollerated bc he’s hot though.

Its ok because its in reference to a guy
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #128 on: 09 Oct 2020, 02:26 »

Looks more like a charm check. I'm more of a CoC guy...
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #129 on: 09 Oct 2020, 02:28 »

What's the protocol on US dating wrt the bill - and what does a 'cheap date' mean? Split bill? Guy pays? Girl pays? Split bill for food, higher earner pays the wine?

Is it consider rude for the guy to offer to pay all? Or is it rude not to?
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #130 on: 09 Oct 2020, 03:04 »

What's the protocol on US dating wrt the bill - and what does a 'cheap date' mean?

AFAIK, split bill is the default now, so Dan is promising to find somewhere nice but cheap.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #131 on: 09 Oct 2020, 03:18 »

While I don't like Renee's reaction to Dan's D&D reference (let the dude have his fun!), personally the joke fell a bit flat for me. There's so much amazing stuff to need out about in the D&D world (and TTRPGs in general!) but it feels forced here.

Almost completely unrelated, but I can't believe it took me this long to realize that @Gyrre's signature quote was from Aviators - Traveler's Song! Such a great band and I'm amazed it took me until only recently to discover them.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #132 on: 09 Oct 2020, 04:45 »

What's the protocol on US dating wrt the bill - and what does a 'cheap date' mean? Split bill? Guy pays? Girl pays? Split bill for food, higher earner pays the wine?

Is it consider rude for the guy to offer to pay all? Or is it rude not to?

"Cheap date" can mean several things, and not just WRT who pays,[1] although, contextually, it could be relevant here.  My personal rule for who pays is that, barring some other agreement, the person who does the asking pays, or one covers the meal, the other drinks.

[1] It can also refer to one's lack of capacity for alcohol, and/or going for the cheap shit, so that the drinks bill is low.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #133 on: 09 Oct 2020, 07:28 »

@BenRG: in the current D&D edition you get a modifier according to your ability score. For example you have CHA 13, you get a +1. For an ability check you roll D20, add your modifier and hope to exeed a value, which was set by the DM (Dungeon Master) or the scenario. The higher the roll the better. A natural 20 is an automatic success.

This goes really well. I hope there is no basic misunderstanding. Like Renee is looking for a relationship or maybe just a hookup and Dan is in a relationship and didn‘t tell her yet because he didn‘t think this could become something serious.

I like him. Can we keep him, Jeph? Pleeeeaase??? :-D

TM
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #134 on: 09 Oct 2020, 07:37 »

Well ... the current version of D&D is 5.

The "the bonus is your stat minus 10 divided by 2" rule is used since D&D3.

AD&D (aka D&D2) still had very complicated tables that decided stat bonusses.



A natural 20 is an automatic success.
That is NOT true.

Rolling 1 or 20 on a skill or attribute check isnt handled differently than any other roll in between.

You can fail on a 20 and succeed with an 1, if the check is hard or easy enough, respectively.

It is true for attacks, for which a 1 will always miss, and a 20 always hit.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #135 on: 09 Oct 2020, 07:42 »

@snubnouse: true, but "nat 20 on an Attribute check is a natural success" is a house rule I've seen often.

Plus, if the challenge rating of a roll is reasonable, and you roll a 20, you'll probably pass the check if you don't have some harsh penalties. So, "I rolled a 20" is an  understandable shorthand for "I succeeded".
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #136 on: 09 Oct 2020, 07:57 »

@BenRG: in the current D&D edition you get a modifier according to your ability score. For example you have CHA 13, you get a +1. For an ability check you roll D20, add your modifier and hope to exeed a value, which was set by the DM (Dungeon Master) or the scenario. The higher the roll the better. A natural 20 is an automatic success.

Yes, the system I'm familiar with isn't D&D (which I've barely ever played) but was created by West End Games.

Basically, you have a attribute (in this case, Charisma, CHR) of, just for an example, 13. This is modified, mostly at GM discretion, based on the amount of preparation the character has, necessary tools and the disposition of the NPC. For example, -4 for spontaneous, +4 because you're wearing your best clothes and are freshly washed and groomed or x1/2 because you're dirty and the NPC doesn't like you anyway. You then roll a d20 and success requires that the amount be less than the modified attribute. A roll of 1 is always a critical success and a roll of 20 is always a critical failure.

The last revision of  this system takes away the damage roll. Instead you have a minimum and maximum damage limit and a margin of success modifier. For example, for a club, the damage rating is S5K. This means that a success (roll less than your primitive melee weapons skill number) always stuns the foe (no action for d20/4 moves). However, if your roll is more than 5 less than the skill number, you increase the damage caused by one step beyond the minimum margin requirement up to the maximum limit of 'kill'. So, my skill number is 10 and I roll 3, so I get two boosts, increasing the damage to 'Maimed'. This is modified by armour, stacking for multiple hits and armour-piercing qualities but I won't go into that to stop this post from turning into a tl;dr. I've always found the system fairly intuitive and easy to use without all the complex cross-checks that WotC's system typically requires.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #137 on: 09 Oct 2020, 07:59 »

Basically like proficiency or psionics checks in 2nd ed.  Third+ cleaned up a lot of those awkward mechanics.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #138 on: 09 Oct 2020, 08:38 »

Is there a general DnD thread anywhere? I saw one in CLIKC, but I'm pretty sure that's for a specific version.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #139 on: 09 Oct 2020, 09:19 »

DnD is still probably the worst of all the many systems I have played. It does the thing it does passably well, but it is fairly limited.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #140 on: 09 Oct 2020, 09:55 »

What's the protocol on US dating wrt the bill - and what does a 'cheap date' mean? Split bill? Guy pays? Girl pays? Split bill for food, higher earner pays the wine?

Is it consider rude for the guy to offer to pay all? Or is it rude not to?

I'd say it's a bit dependent, but if you agree to go on a date together I'd say how it tends to go most of the time is that the guy offers to pay, but if the girl offers to split there'll not be any insisting to not split it. For these situations it doesn't really matter who is the highest earner (if you even know at that point).
If one person invites the other to go on a date, with the former taking the initiative and deciding where they go and all that, it's a little different and generally expected for that person to pay, although if the latter offers to split that would be fine of course.

So, for example:
I like somebody and ask him/her out on a date and I take care of all logistics = I'd expect and be happy to pay
I connect with somebody on Match/eharmony or whatever and we agree to go on a first date, together discussing where to go and such = one of the two might offer to pay and that's fine for the other party to accept, but often split check. If either party in this situation simply expects the other person to pay and doesn't even offer to split, that's a bit of a turnoff. 
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #141 on: 09 Oct 2020, 10:35 »

Subtext? No, it's signtext.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #142 on: 09 Oct 2020, 11:12 »

I am liking the Marten clone, I hope he sticks around; and Renee deserves some good luck for a change and should get to have a boyfriend.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #143 on: 09 Oct 2020, 19:48 »

@snubnouse: true, but "nat 20 on an Attribute check is a natural success" is a house rule I've seen often.

Plus, if the challenge rating of a roll is reasonable, and you roll a 20, you'll probably pass the check if you don't have some harsh penalties. So, "I rolled a 20" is an  understandable shorthand for "I succeeded".

But it's one that can get very messy very quickly.
Critical fails and critical successes are best left to saving throws and attack rolls in my experience. Otherwise there's no point in having a positive modifier on skills.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #144 on: 09 Oct 2020, 19:52 »

Is there a general DnD thread anywhere? I saw one in CLIKC, but I'm pretty sure that's for a specific version.
As the author of that thread, I can confidently say it's intended for all D&D editions along with Pathfinder.
[I'm just a derp about thread titles sometimes.]
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #145 on: 09 Oct 2020, 20:06 »

DnD is still probably the worst of all the many systems I have played. It does the thing it does passably well, but it is fairly limited.

I'm not experienced with new WoD, but I think that the old system was nice and elegant.  Thing is that things broke once you allowed PCs of different supernatural groups, especially if player combat is known to happen in the group.  And a mage just ruins everything unless that's the game you're running, in which case, any PC that is anything else is severely *underpowered* by comparison.  I'll pretend that Mummy isn't a thing right now.  The run AD&D had between the mutually compatible 1st and 2nd ed was obscenely long, and with the loads of official splatbooks accumulating from the late '70s until 2000 meant a fuckton of screwy mechanics and easy to cherry pick for abusing the system unless the GM strictly policed what sourcebooks were allowed.

I think that Wizards did the world a favour with 3.x, by cleaning things up quite a bit, and Pathfinder is a further refinement on that.

My limited experience with Shadowrun, Rifts,[1] and Rolemaster were all in the '90s, and they either were a nightmare in terms of actually running combat, or, at least in case of Rifts, was a nuclear arms race between players and GM.

Generally, I don't want to try a new system until it's at least three years or so into its lifecycle, so that there are enough options available.

[1] I'm pretty sure that the only long-time players of that system I knew were either power-gamers, liars, or SOs.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #146 on: 10 Oct 2020, 00:49 »

All of the WoD franchises were designed to be kept separate, they very much are not intended for cross play. They each have their own internal scaling. They are also each entire different in scope, theme, tone, and perspective. Nary the twain should meet. I mean, sure you can do it, but it definitely runs counter to the way the games are designed to be played.

Pathfinder has always been and continues to be bloated and inelegant, but some people are into that. It definitely isn't for me.

I am a bigger fan of smaller indie games like Monsterhearts, Apocalypse World, and similar simpler narrative focused, more thematically narrow games.

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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #147 on: 10 Oct 2020, 03:25 »

Oh, yeah, they're fine internally, and the base system is nice and clean.  I also kinda want to try out the fan-made "Genius: The Transgression".  And yes, Pathfinder is, to both its benefit and detriment explicitly designed to give players as many options as possible, and even if a refinement on D&D 3.x in so many ways, inherits some of that system's flaws.
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #148 on: 10 Oct 2020, 05:30 »

D&D is not the best-designed game I've played by any stretch, but I kinda regard it as the game equivalent of a burger from a big franchise.

There are people who can't stand McDonald's (and I used to be one of those people, actually), but it does a lot of things passably well, is comfortably predictable, and if you want to go out with a bunch of friends, it's a safe option that you can reasonably hope most will agree to.

Great food that's for a more specific palate? Not always, not necessarily.

Are there much better burgers than McDonald's? Boy, are there. But it's McDonald's, y'know? It's popular, it's not that bad, and it's accessible. And if you ask a person who's not a burger afficionado if they've heard of McDonald's, they certainly have. D&D is exactly the same for tabletop gaming. You'd be hard-pressed to find a person who is vaguely aware tabletop games exist and hasn't heard of D&D. And almost every tabletop RPG player has played D&D, which is FAR from true for any other game, even the most popular ones.

(seriously, before the pandemic if I suggested to my RPG friends a new game, and it was D&D or Pathfinder? I always had more than enough people. I ran a frickin' four-year campaign in PF and even when some people dropped out, there was never a shortage of new players. When I try to run a different, more focused game? I'm lucky if I can get a team together in the first place)
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Re: WCDT strips 4366-4370 (Oct 5th to Oct 9th 2020)
« Reply #149 on: 10 Oct 2020, 05:34 »

And given at the rate that even groups that do successfully start end up exploding within a few months at the best of times, most people only are going to be willing to learn a couple of systems.  In that case, I'd say "run Paranoia, the players aren't supposed to know the rules anyway", but half the fun of that game is getting *away* with knowing the rules and exploiting them.
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