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Poll

I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10.  Can you guess it?

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Wait, you were serious?!

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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)  (Read 2582 times)

Gyrre

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[maniacal laughter]

Ok, but I actually understand not wanting BBQ sauce, tiny fish, or pickles on your pizza. Pineapple requires a bit of tanginess and spiciness to be added for most folks (habaneros) who snoot about it not belonging on pizza. BBQ sauce instead of marinara or tomato paste is just doing it wrong.

I know, I know. The reason pizza was invented technically means there's no wrong way to do it. Ox tail pizza and fish pizza are a thing. I'd be willing to wadger there's a pumpkin soup pizza somewhere, too. But, barbecue sauce makes far less sense than pineapples. Just saying.


EDIT
Right then. Tuesday I'll be swapping for a number between 1 and 10.
« Last Edit: 18 Oct 2020, 18:15 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #1 on: 18 Oct 2020, 18:18 »

Strip up!

I don't normally get banned, but yeah that's typical of forum arguments.

(I had olives on a pizza recently. Was good. I like Ham & pineapple too.)

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #2 on: 18 Oct 2020, 18:31 »

It's a good argument!  I think for me it would come down to how the AI are playing - if they're playing with controllers and completely separate Internet connection, then yes, they should be allowed to join, but if they're playing using direct interface, that's an advantage that would materially change the game for them and give them an advantage.  A taller basketball player is still having to use the same skills and play by the same rules. 
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #3 on: 18 Oct 2020, 19:01 »

Hold separate tournaments. One is open to anyone using an external connection (humans and embodied AIs), and one is open to direct interface (AIs only). Computers that have spent several years with different learning processes will perform differently from each other, but will still be more effective than humans. That way you're not keeping anyone from playing, but you're not stacking the odds against the humans.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #4 on: 18 Oct 2020, 19:21 »

I'm on Greg's side on this one. Putting AI that don't make input errors in esports alongside humans is not comparable to disallowing tall people from playing basketball, it's comparable to allowing someone who makes every shot from anywhere on the court without fail, and effortlessly. In such a league, humans need not apply. If you allowed mixed play, humans would need their own human-only leagues to participate in competitive play at all. So... as Gnabberwocky said, make separate leagues. Just make a human only league and an all-comers league (which will, in practice, be an AI-only league.) My support for embodied AI play in the human league would depend upon how much stronger fine motor control is in embodied AIs, but I suspect... a lot better. So they'd need to be disallowed there too, probably.

BETTER COMPARISON: Flipping it around, letting humans join an esports league AI also play in is like writing into the rules that newborn babies are allowed to join the NBA. Except less balanced.
« Last Edit: 18 Oct 2020, 19:38 by truestatic »
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #5 on: 18 Oct 2020, 19:28 »

Greg is right on this one. Although I'm wondering if this is supposed to represent others things that're happening in sports at the moment.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #6 on: 18 Oct 2020, 20:10 »

Ok, but I actually understand not wanting BBQ sauce, tiny fish, or pickles on your pizza. Pineapple requires a bit of tanginess and spiciness to be added for most folks (habaneros) who snoot about it not belonging on pizza. BBQ sauce instead of marinara or tomato paste is just doing it wrong.
I have a bizarre habit of ordering strange things on a pizza, but yet still friends trust me to make group orders, 'cos somehow I find ways to make it work.  Like pine nuts and such.

That said, I would kill for a nice Tandoori Chicken pizza.  There aren't any around here.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #7 on: 18 Oct 2020, 20:53 »

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #8 on: 18 Oct 2020, 22:26 »

what possibly makes any of us think, based on the comic, that AI don't make input errors? citation needed

also pizza is the stew of open-face sandwiches

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #9 on: 18 Oct 2020, 22:34 »

what possibly makes any of us think, based on the comic, that AI don't make input errors? citation needed

also pizza is the stew of open-face sandwiches

Is it a sandwich or is it a flat pie? And if it qualifies as a sandwich, doesn't a hotdog count the same way? or a wrap? or a pocket?

OK now I'm hungry- darnit!
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #10 on: 18 Oct 2020, 22:59 »

what possibly makes any of us think, based on the comic, that AI don't make input errors? citation needed

also pizza is the stew of open-face sandwiches

Is it a sandwich or is it a flat pie? And if it qualifies as a sandwich, doesn't a hotdog count the same way? or a wrap? or a pocket?

OK now I'm hungry- darnit!

Sandwich.

It's always been on a flatbread base. Even before Sicilians started adding the tomato paste. BTW We've even found an ancient Roman recipe for pizza crust.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #11 on: 18 Oct 2020, 23:14 »

fish pizza

I had tuna pizza in Mexico 25 years ago, and, at the time, it was the best damn pizza I'd ever had (n.b. I don't live in NYC or Chicago...or Napoli)
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #12 on: 18 Oct 2020, 23:18 »

To me, today's strip is essentially the counterpart of the strip that was a text conversation between Clinton and Elliot. It's teaching Elliot that Clinton has issues that he should be aware off right at the start rather than get blindsided by later on (in this case, aggressive debating style mixed with a bad temper)!
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #13 on: 19 Oct 2020, 00:02 »

Obviously vegetables make the best pizza toppings. YUM !

I've never been banned from any online forum. Then again when the internet really started, I was already like 30 or some such. Its probably different if you're 13 when you start with the internet.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #14 on: 19 Oct 2020, 00:14 »

To me, today's strip is essentially the counterpart of the strip that was a text conversation between Clinton and Elliot. It's teaching Elliot that Clinton has issues that he should be aware off right at the start rather than get blindsided by later on (in this case, aggressive debating style mixed with a bad temper)!

Online Arguments do tend derail faster than real life ones...
Also, having a (potential) partner may shift priorities in a way of being less aggressive.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #15 on: 19 Oct 2020, 02:39 »

If one is limited to three toppings, the obvious choices are mushrooms, black olives, and arugula.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #16 on: 19 Oct 2020, 03:18 »

I've never been banned from any online forum. Then again when the internet really started, I was already like 30 or some such. Its probably different if you're 13 when you start with the internet.

I've been young on the internet and never got banned anywhere, but then my preferred way to interact with forum arguments was always as a spectator. You wouldn't believe the mundane, seemingly harmless topics that would cause a thread to spin out into 20-page behemoths of internet rage in the blink of on eye. A forum I frequented as a high schooler had one that exploded over a literal sandwich. That thread is the stuff of legend.

It's been quite some time since I've seen any of this stuff go down, of course. OT, obviously I'm posting on one now, but I feel like the real heyday of forums in general was over years ago, where they were basically THE place to congregate to talk about whatever the thing was. There are so many other places people can share their opinions now, even/especially on niche topics. Again, certain webcomic forums notwithstanding.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #17 on: 19 Oct 2020, 05:17 »

Obviously vegetables make the best pizza toppings. YUM !

I've never been banned from any online forum. Then again when the internet really started, I was already like 30 or some such. Its probably different if you're 13 when you start with the internet.

I actually looked up "worst pizza toppings" for this poll and somehow spinach and broccoli were on a list of the 12 worst. Mushrooms I get because I didn't like the mouth feel of them as a kid (fine now if slightly singed), but spinach and broccoli  were always good. BTW, 'mushrooms' and 'eggs' replaced 'ketchup' and 'mustard' after looking things up. 3 entries for cheeseburger pizza (pickles for the 3rd) seemed a bit much. Incidentally, cheeseburger pizza without pickles taste fine.

EDIT: Typo fix
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2020, 05:23 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #18 on: 19 Oct 2020, 05:43 »

I've had broccoli, squash, and zucchini pizza and it is glorious.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #19 on: 19 Oct 2020, 06:04 »

Back when I haunted the wizards of the coast forums a 100 years ago mentioning Katanas was a bannable offense because of how vitriolic and stupid the arguments tended to get. Similarly you ended up with really vicious argumetns about psionics rules. Some were genuinely interesting and there ended up being some great discussions/screaming matches about rules and the like. People get passionate about things or just want to troll.

On the subject of their argument I sort of see both sides of it. Gregs argument was that a machine can be optimized in ways that a human body can't, they can have better abilities to calculate and can have bodies that are specifically built for the sport with systems that would give them a clear edge. It's somewhat similar to the steroid argument often used in professional sports.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #20 on: 19 Oct 2020, 06:36 »

Back when I haunted the wizards of the coast forums a 100 years ago mentioning Katanas was a bannable offense because of how vitriolic and stupid the arguments tended to get. Similarly you ended up with really vicious argumetns about psionics rules. Some were genuinely interesting and there ended up being some great discussions/screaming matches about rules and the like. People get passionate about things or just want to troll.

You have me really curious now - what in the world is there to argue about in regards to katanas?  Is it that they're somehow a superior weapon?  That seems like an especially ridiculous argument in D&D - it's been a long time since I looked at stats, but I think as far as D&D is concerned a katana is functionally a longsword that takes a separate proficiency?  Even if you want to claim it's somehow better, fine, make them all Masterwork by default - everyone is on the same page by level 5 or 6 when actual enchanted weapons start popping up anyway.

Edit: Oh God.  I Googled for five minutes and I already see the madness you're discussing.
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2020, 06:42 by HeavyP »
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #21 on: 19 Oct 2020, 06:48 »

Back when I haunted the wizards of the coast forums a 100 years ago mentioning Katanas was a bannable offense because of how vitriolic and stupid the arguments tended to get. Similarly you ended up with really vicious argumetns about psionics rules. Some were genuinely interesting and there ended up being some great discussions/screaming matches about rules and the like. People get passionate about things or just want to troll.

You have me really curious now - what in the world is there to argue about in regards to katanas?  Is it that they're somehow a superior weapon?  That seems like an especially ridiculous argument in D&D - it's been a long time since I looked at stats, but I think as far as D&D is concerned a katana is functionally a longsword that takes a separate proficiency?  Even if you want to claim it's somehow better, fine, make them all Masterwork by default - everyone is on the same page by level 5 or 6 when actual enchanted weapons start popping up anyway.

Ok, well there were several subjheadings to this. See in 2nd edition the katana was genuinely OP, it  was something like 2d12 damage which for those that aren't complete geeks is exceptionally high for a melee weapon. Then they just made them masterwork bastard swords in 3.0-3.5. This had objections from four camps.

1) Katanas are way better than that, they can cut cannon barrels and should be proper high damage
2) Katanas are curved blades not straight and most curved weapons have a higher crit range but maybe adjust damage, plus if you have to take an exotic weapons feat for it it should maybe be better
3) Katanas are trash and so are you ya damn weeb, they should be doing barely any damage and quit bringing your anime trash to my game
4) Katanas should have their own category if we're going to do the same thing for other similar weapons that exist or make tons of exotics, might as well make it more in line.

1 and 3 had the loudest and most pronounced arguments and all of this was pre-mythbusters. Some people might have been looking at it as legacy rules, some were going off of mall ninja lore, some were reacting negatively to what they viewed as foreign ideas in their gamespace, some were reacting to stuff from the past and some on both sides were trolling. I ended up in it by accidents because of a discussion about exotic weapons in general and what a crapshoot they were. I ended up making them their own thing and the stats I used ended up being the stats for them in Pathfinder a few years later so I guess I was ahead of the curve.

Also weapon stats could mean a lot because of how certain builds worked, a weapon that has poor damage but stupid high crit range due to typos is nuts for any kind of crit fisher build. But I'm already probably boring others that aren't into this so I'll stop here
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #22 on: 19 Oct 2020, 06:59 »

Back when I haunted the wizards of the coast forums a 100 years ago mentioning Katanas was a bannable offense because of how vitriolic and stupid the arguments tended to get. Similarly you ended up with really vicious argumetns about psionics rules. Some were genuinely interesting and there ended up being some great discussions/screaming matches about rules and the like. People get passionate about things or just want to troll.

You have me really curious now - what in the world is there to argue about in regards to katanas?  Is it that they're somehow a superior weapon?  That seems like an especially ridiculous argument in D&D - it's been a long time since I looked at stats, but I think as far as D&D is concerned a katana is functionally a longsword that takes a separate proficiency?  Even if you want to claim it's somehow better, fine, make them all Masterwork by default - everyone is on the same page by level 5 or 6 when actual enchanted weapons start popping up anyway.

Ok, well there were several subjheadings to this. See in 2nd edition the katana was genuinely OP, it  was something like 2d12 damage which for those that aren't complete geeks is exceptionally high for a melee weapon. Then they just made them masterwork bastard swords in 3.0-3.5. This had objections from four camps.

1) Katanas are way better than that, they can cut cannon barrels and should be proper high damage
2) Katanas are curved blades not straight and most curved weapons have a higher crit range but maybe adjust damage, plus if you have to take an exotic weapons feat for it it should maybe be better
3) Katanas are trash and so are you ya damn weeb, they should be doing barely any damage and quit bringing your anime trash to my game
4) Katanas should have their own category if we're going to do the same thing for other similar weapons that exist or make tons of exotics, might as well make it more in line.

1 and 3 had the loudest and most pronounced arguments and all of this was pre-mythbusters. Some people might have been looking at it as legacy rules, some were going off of mall ninja lore, some were reacting negatively to what they viewed as foreign ideas in their gamespace, some were reacting to stuff from the past and some on both sides were trolling. I ended up in it by accidents because of a discussion about exotic weapons in general and what a crapshoot they were. I ended up making them their own thing and the stats I used ended up being the stats for them in Pathfinder a few years later so I guess I was ahead of the curve.

Also weapon stats could mean a lot because of how certain builds worked, a weapon that has poor damage but stupid high crit range due to typos is nuts for any kind of crit fisher build. But I'm already probably boring others that aren't into this so I'll stop here

Oh wow, the only 2E games I've played are the IE games and those all just made them 1d10.  A medium longsword is 1d8, 2d12 is just fucking *broken* - it's just a sword, Jesus Christ.  I think I'm in camp 2, all of that makes sense - if I've got to spend a feat to use the thing without a penalty, it *should* be better than a bog-standard longsword.  But get outta here with that Weeabo "legendary Nippon steel that can slice through anything!" bullshit - it's a meter-long piece of sharpened steel, not a damned lightsaber.  FWIW, it's been years since I played P&P, but I have a decent collection of 3.5 books that I've enjoyed reading and that's what I'm most familiar with, I don't really know anything about 4e or 5e.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #23 on: 19 Oct 2020, 07:29 »

On being banned from forums: only time it ever happened to me was on a political discussion forum about 20 years ago, where one guy on the mod team went on a power trip and started banning numerous people for imagined offenses. Mine was for “massive intent to spam” - not actually spamming the forum, but intent to do so. His evidence for this was an obvious joke in a post that someone else had made. Well, this forum had an appeals process, which I used, and the ban was quickly overturned by majority vote of the moderation team. The one mod then immediately re-banned me on the grounds that my appeal constituted “being disruptive”. I was even more quickly reinstated by another moderator, and the other guy was stripped of his mod powers.

Which is why I’m grateful that none of the mods here go off on power trips like that. Some people let even the smallest amount of power go to their heads.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #24 on: 19 Oct 2020, 07:41 »

It bears mentioning, by the way, that there's a very long and detailed history about how "fairness" rules in sports have been and *currently are* used by ruling power groups to invalidate or sabotage their competition, which muddles things a helluva lot.

it also doesn't help that as cultures we publicly lie to ourselves a lot about why we make decisions

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #25 on: 19 Oct 2020, 07:42 »

BBQ sauce instead of marinara or tomato paste is just doing it wrong.
Strongly disagree.
My wife has a toxic reaction to commercial tomato sauces (we made our own once and she took it just fine) so we typically get our pizza from Papa Murphy's with the Creamy Garlic Sauce. But when we get a "Hawai'ian" we get it with BQ sauce, and PM's has also occasionally had a "Barbecue Chicken" pie that we've found quite good.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #26 on: 19 Oct 2020, 07:44 »

I'm with Clinton on baseball, but I extend that view to all the other sports too.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #27 on: 19 Oct 2020, 07:51 »

I'm with Clinton on baseball, but I extend that view to all the other sports too.

I include e-sports in this as well.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #28 on: 19 Oct 2020, 09:31 »

I've been banned twice, once for promoting torrents, and regarding the other I was a bit miffed, because I was participating in a thread that had been going for a month or two when I posted, and all of a sudden the mods decided that it was against the rules and banned all participants. I must say, I do not like permanent instabans. I was moderating some subforums at the doom9.org forum for a while back in 2002-2003(?) and we had a 3 strike system, where a single strike would issue a warning, with links to the specific rules you broke, a second warning would give you a short suspension, and the third strike was the one that gave a permanent ban. And you'd get strikes removed if you behaved after receiving them. Worked rather well.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #29 on: 19 Oct 2020, 15:00 »

Yum, pineapple!
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #30 on: 19 Oct 2020, 18:10 »

Comic's up.

Back away from the beer Clinton. You'll end up making a fool of yourself if you're not careful.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #31 on: 19 Oct 2020, 18:26 »

Clinton, don't drink Elliot levels of beer. You'd die.

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #32 on: 19 Oct 2020, 18:46 »

There was a restaurant that did a really good smoked salmon, goat cheese and dill pizza. 
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #33 on: 19 Oct 2020, 18:51 »

Ooooh, that sounds delicious.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #34 on: 19 Oct 2020, 18:52 »

Clinton: ``OK I won't drink that much, but I'll still drink more than I should.''
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #35 on: 19 Oct 2020, 19:07 »

Pizza. I've finally come to the conclusion that there are no bad pizza ingredients, only bad combinations.

Story: If Jeph goes the route of Clinton gets drunk -> Clinton and Elliot declare their affection for each other -> next morning, they both wake up wondering if it was genuine or the booze, then I'm just giving up on QC, because Jeph is just repeating himself in different combinations over and over.

it also doesn't help that as cultures we publicly lie to ourselves a lot about why we make decisions

We like to think that we have special insight into the reasons we make decisions.

We don't really, but we are really really good at post-hoc rationalization.

So, even when we lie about why we make decisions, what we imagine to be the "truth" we're withholding from the public may well be wrong as well.
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Rincewind

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #36 on: 19 Oct 2020, 19:10 »

Is that taller person with the funky hair sporting a Hercules T-Shirt?
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #37 on: 19 Oct 2020, 19:21 »

Story: If Jeph goes the route of Clinton gets drunk -> Clinton and Elliot declare their affection for each other -> next morning, they both wake up wondering if it was genuine or the booze, then I'm just giving up on QC, because Jeph is just repeating himself in different combinations over and over.
I see where you're coming from, but I can't think of an instance where it was ever really in question.

With the Marten/Claire scenario, Claire was sober the night before and Marten barely hesitated the next morning before going over to her house.

With the Dora/Tai scenario, there was never any doubt for Tai, and like Tai said, just because she wasn't drunk doesn't mean she didn't mean it.

Basically, I disagree, and I think Jeph is too creative to use an exhausted storyline anyways.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #38 on: 19 Oct 2020, 19:43 »

I think it'd be more interesting if Clinton got drunk and started causing a minor scene, or subtle problems for Elliot's bouncer role that Elliot notices and worries about the bar noticing, even thought it's just something subtle that probably only few others would notice or even care about, but Elliot thinks he's in the awkward position of having to handle the situation but in a gentler way than usual because he doesn't want to mess up his chances with Clinton. Or whether he even needs to do anything about it.. Maybe interesting if he slightly overreacts, causing slight difficulties for their relationship, that he imagines are really big problems.
And there's definitely the potential to weave in something with Brun, irregarding whether it's directly related. Recently hasn't been much simultaneous storylines advancement, so I doubt this would happen.. I'd offer some odds for betting, but I'd rather wait for the old bet to resolve first. How many in-story days has it been so far? 2--3? Time really flies when I'm busy with---wait a minute!
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #39 on: 19 Oct 2020, 20:27 »

Back when I haunted the wizards of the coast forums a 100 years ago mentioning Katanas was a bannable offense because of how vitriolic and stupid the arguments tended to get. Similarly you ended up with really vicious argumetns about psionics rules. Some were genuinely interesting and there ended up being some great discussions/screaming matches about rules and the like. People get passionate about things or just want to troll.

You have me really curious now - what in the world is there to argue about in regards to katanas?  Is it that they're somehow a superior weapon?  That seems like an especially ridiculous argument in D&D - it's been a long time since I looked at stats, but I think as far as D&D is concerned a katana is functionally a longsword that takes a separate proficiency?  Even if you want to claim it's somehow better, fine, make them all Masterwork by default - everyone is on the same page by level 5 or 6 when actual enchanted weapons start popping up anyway.

Ok, well there were several subjheadings to this. See in 2nd edition the katana was genuinely OP, it  was something like 2d12 damage which for those that aren't complete geeks is exceptionally high for a melee weapon. Then they just made them masterwork bastard swords in 3.0-3.5. This had objections from four camps.

1) Katanas are way better than that, they can cut cannon barrels and should be proper high damage
2) Katanas are curved blades not straight and most curved weapons have a higher crit range but maybe adjust damage, plus if you have to take an exotic weapons feat for it it should maybe be better
3) Katanas are trash and so are you ya damn weeb, they should be doing barely any damage and quit bringing your anime trash to my game
4) Katanas should have their own category if we're going to do the same thing for other similar weapons that exist or make tons of exotics, might as well make it more in line.

1 and 3 had the loudest and most pronounced arguments and all of this was pre-mythbusters. Some people might have been looking at it as legacy rules, some were going off of mall ninja lore, some were reacting negatively to what they viewed as foreign ideas in their gamespace, some were reacting to stuff from the past and some on both sides were trolling. I ended up in it by accidents because of a discussion about exotic weapons in general and what a crapshoot they were. I ended up making them their own thing and the stats I used ended up being the stats for them in Pathfinder a few years later so I guess I was ahead of the curve.

Also weapon stats could mean a lot because of how certain builds worked, a weapon that has poor damage but stupid high crit range due to typos is nuts for any kind of crit fisher build. But I'm already probably boring others that aren't into this so I'll stop here

Oh wow, the only 2E games I've played are the IE games and those all just made them 1d10.  A medium longsword is 1d8, 2d12 is just fucking *broken* - it's just a sword, Jesus Christ.  I think I'm in camp 2, all of that makes sense - if I've got to spend a feat to use the thing without a penalty, it *should* be better than a bog-standard longsword.  But get outta here with that Weeabo "legendary Nippon steel that can slice through anything!" bullshit - it's a meter-long piece of sharpened steel, not a damned lightsaber.  FWIW, it's been years since I played P&P, but I have a decent collection of 3.5 books that I've enjoyed reading and that's what I'm most familiar with, I don't really know anything about 4e or 5e.

Not to mention the quality of the steel used during that time period. It may be 8 folded, but it's still dredged up from a sandbar and it's still going to shatter or bend if it hits something like stone. Hence why monks swallowed stones before their execution during the Sengoku Jidai.

EDIT: for specificity
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2020, 20:37 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #40 on: 19 Oct 2020, 20:57 »

It was certainly 1d10 in 1st ed.  But it also had a lower speed factor than a longsword, so hit harder *and* was faster.  In 3.x and pathfinder, yeah, it requires a feat, but with that threat range, a keen weapon, and improved critical, it was grossly OP.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #41 on: 19 Oct 2020, 21:44 »

Clinton is a bit on the lightweight side - so that little girl on the left must be tiny. Maybe Elliot should check her ID a little more closely? 
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #42 on: 19 Oct 2020, 23:25 »

I'm beginning to think my worst fears about this arc are being realised. Jeph, having failed to come up with a way to make a believable chemistry between Clinton and Elliot, has just arbitrarily declared that they're crushing on each-other (ignoring that their older interactions involved Clinton being afraid that he might get in a fight with Elliot over Brun) and just writing a load of light-weight cute comedy strips and expecting us to take the 'chemistry' thing as read.

Back away from the beer Clinton. You'll end up making a fool of yourself if you're not careful.

Yeah, actually, I think that this is the author's objective.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #43 on: 19 Oct 2020, 23:31 »

BBQ sauce instead of marinara or tomato paste is just doing it wrong.
Strongly disagree.
My wife has a toxic reaction to commercial tomato sauces (we made our own once and she took it just fine) so we typically get our pizza from Papa Murphy's with the Creamy Garlic Sauce. But when we get a "Hawai'ian" we get it with BQ sauce, and PM's has also occasionally had a "Barbecue Chicken" pie that we've found quite good.

My own bias is just that I've a general distaste for virtually all BBQ sauce. The only one I've ever had that didn't make me wretch was homemade and formulated for a diabetic with low kidney function. IDK if it's a food sensitivity or just the sheer amount of salt in commercial brands.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #44 on: 19 Oct 2020, 23:31 »

There was a restaurant that did a really good smoked salmon, goat cheese and dill pizza.

That does sound really good, but I'd really have to make sure that it was light on the dill.  I don't know whether I have some strange sensitivity to the taste or not, but for me, a little really goes a long way, and I hate having to send things back.
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #45 on: 20 Oct 2020, 00:11 »

What are the odds on Elliott having to escort a heavily drunk Clinton out before his shift is over?
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #46 on: 20 Oct 2020, 00:41 »

Clinton is a bit on the lightweight side - so that little girl on the left must be tiny. Maybe Elliot should check her ID a little more closely?
Massachusetts IDs that were issued when the person was not 21 years old have a portrait layout. Massachusetts IDs that were issued when the person was at least 21 years old have a landscape layout. If a person's Massachusetts ID is landscape, that person is at least 21 years old. This also protects the privacy of the person whose ID it is: kudos to that bar for not requiring scanning IDs upon entry. IDs have more data on them than is necessary to verify whether the person is at least 21 years old.

Massachusetts IDs have special elements that interact with light in a special way. That helps establish the validity of the document. That's probably what the flashlight is for. For this purpose, plain light is sufficient. An ID checker might tilt the ID to try to catch ambient light or use a flashlight.

See also: https://massclearinghouse.ehs.state.ma.us/PROG-BSAS-YTH/SA1087.html
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2020, 00:50 by Masshole #21 »
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #47 on: 20 Oct 2020, 00:46 »

Here's an out-there idea about where this could all go that won't happen.

Yay turns up and tries to help by bullying Clinton and giving Elliot the chance to be the knight in shining armour for him. Brun intervenes, 'saves' Clinton (threatening a weirded-out Yay with her harpoon). Clinton is drunk enough that Brun is convinced that he's concussed and she leaves early with him because she thinks that she should make sure that he is unharmed by monitoring him as he sleeps in her bed. (Minds out of the gutter, people; she's planning on napping in her bed-side chair with her watch on hour charm so she can check on him.)

YAY: "Well... That was unexpected."

ELLIOT: "Yeah. Thanks for your 'help'."

Next morning, Brun explains herself to a hungover Clinton who, in an unguarded moment, calls it 'the sweetest thing anyone's ever done for me'. The two find that they can laugh about the whole mess and then, to their mutual surprise, kiss in response to an impulse.

Meanwhile, an understandably-aggrieved Elliott rebounds into an ill-considered one-night stand, possibly with Renee (complicating the Dan thing) or Roko. Thus begins a 1,000+ strip arc to resolve the Elliot-Brun-Clinton love-triangle.

Meanwhile, a thoroughly-confused Yay runs into a sweet and shy but nerdly little non-binary student in the bar who was invited out by their extrovert roomie and is utterly out of their depth in a social situation. Yay strikes up a conversation with them on the nature of AI consciousness and several other nodes turn up to assist. The resulting group unobtrusively leave together as the night gets too rowdy for their tastes...
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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #48 on: 20 Oct 2020, 00:51 »

one day you'll have to actually just take the fanfiction plunge you know that right

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Re: WCDT strips 4376-4380 (Oct 19th to Oct 23rd 2020)
« Reply #49 on: 20 Oct 2020, 01:02 »

I'm beginning to think my worst fears about this arc are being realised. Jeph, having failed to come up with a way to make a believable chemistry between Clinton and Elliot, has just arbitrarily declared that they're crushing on each-other (ignoring that their older interactions involved Clinton being afraid that he might get in a fight with Elliot over Brun) and just writing a load of light-weight cute comedy strips and expecting us to take the 'chemistry' thing as read.

We've already seen Clinton get all hot and bothered imagining touching Elliot's arms and stuff, and we know that Clinton decided to do this because it turns out he is physically attracted to Elliot, and he wants to hang out with him and see how he feels (and he is being very good and brave about it [/Claire]). I certainly got the nervous energy and romantic chemistry Jeph was going for from the confession comics, and I'm clearly not the only one here who's perfectly happy to see where he's planning on taking this. Which is something that nobody knows, especially not from a bit of friendly interaction at the start of the evening.
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